Did Jesus die for every one who calls on Him?

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amadeus

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All this reminds me of a prophet in scripture who remains unnamed who failed in the end, but he was really a truth prophet of God:

1Ki 13:1 And, behold, there came a man of God out of Judah by the word of the LORD unto Bethel: and Jeroboam stood by the altar to burn incense.
1Ki 13:2 And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee.
1Ki 13:3 And he gave a sign the same day, saying, This is the sign which the LORD hath spoken; Behold, the altar shall be rent, and the ashes that are upon it shall be poured out.
1Ki 13:4 And it came to pass, when king Jeroboam heard the saying of the man of God, which had cried against the altar in Bethel, that he put forth his hand from the altar, saying, Lay hold on him. And his hand, which he put forth against him, dried up, so that he could not pull it in again to him.
1Ki 13:5 The altar also was rent, and the ashes poured out from the altar, according to the sign which the man of God had given by the word of the LORD.
1Ki 13:6 And the king answered and said unto the man of God, Intreat now the face of the LORD thy God, and pray for me, that my hand may be restored me again. And the man of God besought the LORD, and the king's hand was restored him again, and became as it was before.
1Ki 13:7 And the king said unto the man of God, Come home with me, and refresh thyself, and I will give thee a reward.
1Ki 13:8 And the man of God said unto the king, If thou wilt give me half thine house, I will not go in with thee, neither will I eat bread nor drink water in this place:
1Ki 13:9 For so was it charged me by the word of the LORD, saying, Eat no bread, nor drink water, nor turn again by the same way that thou camest.
1Ki 13:10 So he went another way, and returned not by the way that he came to Bethel.
1Ki 13:11 Now there dwelt an old prophet in Bethel; and his sons came and told him all the works that the man of God had done that day in Bethel: the words which he had spoken unto the king, them they told also to their father.
1Ki 13:12 And their father said unto them, What way went he? For his sons had seen what way the man of God went, which came from Judah.
1Ki 13:13 And he said unto his sons, Saddle me the ass. So they saddled him the ass: and he rode thereon,
1Ki 13:14 And went after the man of God, and found him sitting under an oak: and he said unto him, Art thou the man of God that camest from Judah? And he said, I am.
1Ki 13:15 Then he said unto him, Come home with me, and eat bread.
1Ki 13:16 And he said, I may not return with thee, nor go in with thee: neither will I eat bread nor drink water with thee in this place:
1Ki 13:17 For it was said to me by the word of the LORD, Thou shalt eat no bread nor drink water there, nor turn again to go by the way that thou camest.
1Ki 13:18 He said unto him, I am a prophet also as thou art; and an angel spake unto me by the word of the LORD, saying, Bring him back with thee into thine house, that he may eat bread and drink water. But he lied unto him.
1Ki 13:19 So he went back with him, and did eat bread in his house, and drank water.
1Ki 13:20 And it came to pass, as they sat at the table, that the word of the LORD came unto the prophet that brought him back:
1Ki 13:21 And he cried unto the man of God that came from Judah, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Forasmuch as thou hast disobeyed the mouth of the LORD, and hast not kept the commandment which the LORD thy God commanded thee,
1Ki 13:22 But camest back, and hast eaten bread and drunk water in the place, of the which the LORD did say to thee, Eat no bread, and drink no water; thy carcase shall not come unto the sepulchre of thy fathers.
1Ki 13:23 And it came to pass, after he had eaten bread, and after he had drunk, that he saddled for him the ass, to wit, for the prophet whom he had brought back.
1Ki 13:24 And when he was gone, a lion met him by the way, and slew him: and his carcase was cast in the way, and the ass stood by it, the lion also stood by the carcase.
1Ki 13:25 And, behold, men passed by, and saw the carcase cast in the way, and the lion standing by the carcase: and they came and told it in the city where the old prophet dwelt.
1Ki 13:26 And when the prophet that brought him back from the way heard thereof, he said, It is the man of God, who was disobedient unto the word of the LORD: therefore the LORD hath delivered him unto the lion, which hath torn him, and slain him, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake unto him.
1Ki 13:27 And he spake to his sons, saying, Saddle me the ass. And they saddled him.
1Ki 13:28 And he went and found his carcase cast in the way, and the ass and the lion standing by the carcase: the lion had not eaten the carcase, nor torn the ass.

He failed in the end of his story, but his prophecy was a true prophecy, which is confirmed in the following verses:

I Kings 23:15-17
 
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aspen

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John 3:16 seems to say that he loved the whole world and died for it all of us.
 

bbyrd009

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John 3:16 seems to say that he loved the whole world and died for it all of us.
i'm convinced that everyone is completely forgiven in the afterlife, but that will not matter to those with guilty consciences who have self esteem issues, and cannot stand the light
 
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lforrest

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i'm convinced that everyone is completely forgiven in the afterlife, but that will not matter to those with guilty consciences who have self esteem issues, and cannot stand the light

It's like your giving man made doctrines and adding a bit of scripture to make it more palatable.
 

aspen

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i'm convinced that everyone is completely forgiven in the afterlife, but that will not matter to those with guilty consciences who have self esteem issues, and cannot stand the light

I am also wondering if the law is really a measurement of our compassion and empathy more than our morality. If we are all guilty it should spark compassion for Neighbor; people who lack empathy, lack unconditional love and may be surprised to find themselves to be the ones in trouble on Judgment Day
 

bbyrd009

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It's like your giving man made doctrines and adding a bit of scripture to make it more palatable.
hmm, i would term this a belief of mine, based upon Scripture, but i certainly wouldn't be surprised to find the reality to be completely different. So i dunno about "doctrines."
I referenced no Scripture there specifically either, so not sure what you mean there, but i have noticed the way someone responds after being snide or mean, say, and the offended party takes no notice, does not react in kind, etc. leading me to this observation.

it strikes me that this is what God does, @ "Who told you that you were naked?" and other places, essentially projecting that it is not God Who has a problem with sin--at least so to speak--but man who must sleep in the bed that was made.
 
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aspen

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It's like your giving man made doctrines and adding a bit of scripture to make it more palatable.

Strange that any human could make any interpretation of scripture 'more palatable'. Shouldn't the message of scripture be the best news ever? God is not small or petty, or vindictive
 
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bbyrd009

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I am also wondering if the law is really a measurement of our compassion and empathy more than our morality.
hmm, those terms are intrinsic to each other at several points, but also distinct, so that is hard to quantify i guess, but considering the first 5 of the Decalogue especially, and how ancient they actually are--likely pre-Hammurabi--i can see your point.
 

aspen

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hmm, those terms are intrinsic to each other at several points, but also distinct, so that is hard to quantify i guess, but considering the first 5 of the Decalogue especially, and how ancient they actually are--likely pre-Hammurabi--i can see your point.

Yeah, the word measurement suggests quantifying.......I think I used the wrong word. Perhaps the Law (after Christ fulfilled it) has become a litmus test for our compassion?
 

bbyrd009

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Yeah, the word measurement suggests quantifying.......I think I used the wrong word. Perhaps the Law (after Christ fulfilled it) has become a litmus test for our compassion?
i've always thought of the Law as the bare minimum, but compassion is a good synonym for love; might even be better, according to our current definitions. There is no Law that says one must die for their friends though, right? Imo the story of Job deals with this, although the Jewish version brings that out more
 

mjrhealth

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i'm convinced that everyone is completely forgiven in the afterlife, but that will not matter to those with guilty consciences who have self esteem issues, and cannot stand the light
Actually we are completely forgiven now, the problem is few can accept it. Teh forgiveness that is.
 
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bbyrd009

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Actually we are completely forgiven now, the problem is few can accept it. Teh forgiveness that is.
funny how big a part Codependency plays in that. And also how completely oblivious most people are of the concept

translation-accepting forgiveness requires humility, perfect people don't need forgiveness right, and so then perfectionists (codependents) are shielded from humility by what comes across as pride but is actually like self-loathing sublimated or whatever. Poor self esteem
 

mjrhealth

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funny how big a part Codependency plays in that. And also how completely oblivious most people are of the concept
Religion need to keep people in prison, if not it would not exist, si it cant teach people to seek the Lord for themself, even though our salvation is in Hi alone.

Your posts are always interesting .
 
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bbyrd009

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Religion need to keep people in prison, if not it would not exist, si it cant teach people to seek the Lord for themself, even though our salvation is in Hi alone.
ha i dunno, it sure taught me to seek my own salvation lol. A lot of ppl prefer to be under some kind of law i guess; until they don't
 

Helen

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mjrhealth said:
Your posts are always interesting

so you say anyway lol

ty :)

I agree. :)
Even if sometimes I do have to read them twice to grasp it!
You are what I would call, 'a colourful character'. Especially when some threads get a bit 'heavy'. Light relief. :)
 

bbyrd009

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mjrhealth said:
Your posts are always interesting



I agree. :)
Even if sometimes I do have to read them twice to grasp it!
You are what I would call, 'a colourful character'. Especially when some threads get a bit 'heavy'. Light relief. :)
ha well ty all. i used to be more like Stranger or BoL. very recently. which i hope is taken right lol

i'm wondering how you put that little up arrow next to mjr's quote now, hmm. :)
 

Helen

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ha well ty all. i used to be more like Stranger or BoL. very recently. which i hope is taken right lol

i'm wondering how you put that little up arrow next to mjr's quote now, hmm. :)

That little up arrow, back to his post is handy eh...esp as it was only a part quote.
I didn't even do it knowingly , I just copied those lines and posted them ...
I'm not clever enough to know what I am doing! LOL

BTW, it looks like Sword has 'taken a powder' eh?
Pity, he was entertaining in his own way... we get used to people like we do warts..so we miss them when they are gone. :(
 
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Helen

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@bbyrd009
i've always thought of the Law as the bare minimum, but compassion is a good synonym for love; might even be better, according to our current definitions

Just trying again...to see if it always happens with a copy and paste...as long as there is a @...before the name.

EDIT....no, it didn't work this time...pity.
 

Helen

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mjrhealth said:
Your posts are always interesting .

@bbyrd009 ....trying again ...I obviously did what I did by mistake...I cannot get a repeat....sigh
 
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