Did Jesus die on Friday?

[Marymog]

So we agree that the Bible doesn't refer to the days of the week by name. And I have no problem with meeting on the first day of the week. And if Christians decided to adopt the Roman names for the days of the week, I have no problem with that either.

I disagree with Justin Martyr's view that Jesus rose on Sunday morning. His empty tomb was discovered Sunday morning but apparently he rose on Saturday night. By the time that the woman came to the tomb, the stone was already rolled away and the tomb was already empty.

But all of that is beside the point. The question posed in the video is NOT "on what day of the week do Christians worship?" The video assumes that Sunday is the first day of the week. The question posed in the video is "on what day of the week was Jesus crucified?" Since Jesus said that he would be in the tomb for three days and three nights, no thinking person would conclude that Jesus hung on the cross Friday afternoon and rose from the dead on Sunday morning.

Let's say for the sake of discussion that the angels rolled away the stone during the second or third watch of the night. How about 3:00 am Sunday Morning? That being the case, we shall count Saturday night as the third night Jesus spent in the tomb, because Jesus himself said that he would spend three nights in the tomb. Matthew 12:40 Counting backwards then, Friday night was the second night in the tomb; and Thursday night was the first night in the tomb.

Now, I don't agree with the scenario above because in order to harmonized all the gospel accounts, Jesus had to have spent the first night in the tomb on Wednesday night. But putting that aside for the moment, hopefully you can see that the official Catholic version of events can't possibly be true. Jesus said three nights, but Friday and Saturday night only amount to two nights.

Thanks Cadyzoe. You have articulated your thoughts very well! However you did not address the points I made on how for the first 80+ years after Christ died Christian writings suggest or flat out say Sunday worship. So, WHY were Christians, for the first 80 years of Christianity, gathering together/breaking bread/gathering money (Paul's instructions) on what Justin Martyr flat out said was SUNDAY and Scripture calls the 1st day of the week? Why would they do that on SUNDAY if, by your reckoning, He did not rise on Sunday? Why didn't they celebrate on Saturday? There are only 7 choices for the Lords day so which one of the 7 did John and the writer of the Didache (written around 65AD) mean as the Lords Day?

Remember that the ancient Jews counted any part of a day as a whole day. So “three days and three nights” (which means the same as “three days” in modern usage) could be as little as twenty-four hours.

• Jesus died at around 3 p.m. (cf. Luke 23:44-46), which means the first day of his death was the remainder of the day of preparation, between 3 p.m. and sunset.
• The second day then began at sunset and lasted through the entire sabbath (i.e., it was Friday night and Saturday daytime).
• The third day then began at sundown on the sabbath and lasted until sunset on the first day of the week (i.e., it was Saturday night and Sunday daytime).

This is why, on the road to Emmaus, the disciples can tell Jesus that “it is now the third day” since the Crucifixion (Luke 24:21).

Respectfully, Mary

BTW.....Your statement that it is the "official Catholic version of events" is petty and dishonest. If you were to be honest you would not have made it sound like it is only a Catholic version since your own Protestants accept this "version of events" and the "version of events" has been taught/accepted MUCH longer than the version of events that your men have taught you. From whom did you get YOUR version of events?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Did Jesus die on Friday?
or was it Friday he got fried on?

How many trolls does it take to change a light bulb?
None; Trolls never see the light anyway.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If the High Holy day fell on a Saturday that year, then the gospels can not be harmonized. Therefore, if we believe that the gospel writers are in agreement, then we must conclude that the High Holy Day did not fall on a Saturday that year. Therefore John didn't mean to say, "the High Holy Day fell on a Sabbath day" as you suppose. Rather, he knows that the last day of the week and the High Holy Days are both known as Sabbath days and so, for the sake of clarity he specifies which one he means.

Wrong again ! JOh clearly said that the coming Sabbath was a high day!

31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

First Israel could not leave a dead body hanging on the Sabbath. NO restrictions for a high Sabbath. Second John singles out that Saturday as being a high Day- teh start of unleavened bread.

Seriously if you cannot see that, you need to do refresher studies in basic grammar.

 

[Taken]

The list above suffers from two conceptual problems.

1. First of all, we are looking for three "light days" and three "night days". Your list above only contains two "night days."
2. Second, your list follows the Roman concept of a day/night, but your names for the days of the week don't follow Roman reconning.

In line two above, you mistakenly place Saturday night immediately after Friday day, but in actuality, Friday night follows Friday day.

If one were to count the last three daylight hours of Friday as one day, then the list would look like this.

* in grave during light day DAY 1 (supposed Friday)
* in grave during night day Day 2 (supposed Friday)
* in graved during light day Day 2 (supposed Saturday)
* in grave during night day Day 3 (supposed Saturday)
* in grave during light day Day 3 (supposed Sunday)

So then, the list is missing a night day. Secondly, it counts the dawn twice, once as night day and again as light day.

Already mentioned the two Jewish sabbaths, and said it was confusing, trying to use a solar calendar concept and solar days, to figure Jewish days/nights.
There are some fine explanations online which is figured according to the Scripture, Jewish sabbaths, Jewish lunar days/nights, with charts that I am unable to provide for you. Perhaps you having a check would satisfy your wondering.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Bob Carabbio]

If my analysis is correct, He died on a Wednesday about 3 pm in the afternoon.

BINGO!!!!
Jesus died around 3:00 P.M. on Wednesday, and was interred before Sundown (which was the start of Thursday by Jewish reckoning). Then in the tomb Thursday night, Thursday day, Friday Night, Friday Day, Saturday night, Saturday Day (three days and three nights).

He was ressurected on Sunday night (after sundown Saturday).

The entire Holy Week tradition is totally inaccurate. It was probably whipped up by the Catholics to make "Easter" less invasive economically - since it was all Squashed into a Weekend, instead of messing with the entire work week.

And to make things worse they invented "Religious rationalizations" for why 2 nights and a day = "3 days and three nights".

Kind of the same "religious fiction" in the Eucharist, that made the WAFER ALONE the "Body AND BLOOD of Jesus". HEY!! wine is expensive so why waste wine on their congregations???? Simple economics.

 

[quietthinker]

How many trolls does it take to change a light bulb?
None; Trolls never see the light anyway.

I had hope the matter of changing light bulbs be left to the maintenance man and the matter of the imagination being tickled, become part of some lateral thinking.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

First Israel could not leave a dead body hanging on the Sabbath

I suspect John 19:31 reflects a rabbinical interpretation of Deut 21:23 which
says:

"If a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be put to death,
and thou hang him on a tree: his body shall not remain all night upon the
tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day.

There's no mention of sabbaths in that rule. The only thing forbidden is that
of leaving a corpse hanging overnight-- any night.
_

 

[CadyandZoe]

Thanks Cadyzoe. You have articulated your thoughts very well! However you did not address the points I made on how for the first 80+ years after Christ died Christian writings suggest or flat out say Sunday worship.

I'm sorry Mary. I didn't address the points you made, because, as I said earlier they aren't relevant. We don't need Justin Martyr's testimony concerning the first day of the week, though it is helpful. The New Testament itself informs us that the early believers met on the first day of the week. This is without controversy.

Perhaps I wasn't clear earlier so please allow me to point out something. The Bible doesn't actually tell us when the stone was rolled away from the tomb. The Bible indicates the moment when someone discovered that the stone was rolled away and the tomb was empty. Consider the following verse for example.

John 20:1
Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene *came early to the tomb, while it *was still dark, and *saw the stone already taken away from the tomb.

Remember, John tells us that he wrote his gospel so that we might believe in the son of God. Accordingly, John is interested in what Mary saw with her own eyes. What did Mary see? What did she witness? What was her testimony? On the first day of the week Mary saw the stone had already been taken away from the tomb entrance. What took place earlier that night, no body knows. Did Jesus rise from the dead during the second watch of the night or the third watch of the night? We just don't know.

Okay? So we are hamper by inaccurate time references. Consider how we talk about days and nights. Typically we all can agree that Sunday night comes after Sunday day? So if Jesus rose sometime before dawn on Sunday morning, then we can safely say that he didn't rise on Sunday night, since Sunday night didn't happen yet. We can also safely say that Jesus rose on Saturday night, because that's just how we speak about the time time hours.

Suppose Sally hears a noise at night and when she looks at the clock, it reads "2:12". The next day she asks her husband "what happened last night?" Will her husband turn to her and say, "You are mistaken. It was already morning when you heard the noise?" No. Although technically 2:12am is already a few hours into the next day, we refer to the early morning hours as "last night." Technically, 2:12am Sunday is Sunday morning, but in everyday conversation, 2:12am is Saturday night. We experience it as Saturday night even though it is technically Sunday Morning. If we are being technical, we can probably safely say that Jesus rose Sunday Morning IF we define "morning" as anytime after midnight. But when people here suggested that Jesus rose on Saturday night did you think they were being technical?

Remember that the ancient Jews counted any part of a day as a whole day.

I don't think this is true. Consider the parable of the Landowner who hired some workers. Some he hired at the beginning of the work day, some at the third hour, some at the sixth hour and etc. At the end of the day he paid them all the same wage. Those who started the day on time complained that they were paid the same amount as those who worked one hour. They understood, as we all do, that a fraction of day is not the same as the whole day.

Did the landowner give equal pay because he counted any part of the day as a whole day? No, not at all. He gave them equal pay out of his generosity just as he said, "Is your eye envious because I am generous?" He understood the complaint and why someone would not agree that a partial day is the same as a whole day. Landowners typically pay by the hour; the pay increases as the number of hours worked increases. The Jews are just like everyone else. They do not count any part of day the same as a whole day.

This is why, on the road to Emmaus, the disciples can tell Jesus that “it is now the third day” since the Crucifixion (Luke 24:21).

The Disciples were referring to all the events that surrounded the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. It was the third day since Mary found the empty tomb.

From whom did you get YOUR version of events?

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Paul.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Wrong again ! JOh clearly said that the coming Sabbath was a high day!

Right, but he DIDN'T say that the Sabbath in question was at the end of the week. You are assuming this.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

.


I suspect John 19:31 reflects a rabbinical interpretation of Deut 21:23 which
says:

"If a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be put to death,
and thou hang him on a tree: his body shall not remain all night upon the
tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day.

There's no mention of sabbaths in that rule. The only thing forbidden is that
of leaving a corpse hanging overnight-- any night.
_

Well interpretation or not- th estated reason was that Saturday was approaching! It was already approx. 3 pm when Jesus died so Sabbath was about 3 or 4 hours away!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Right, but he DIDN'T say that the Sabbath in question was at the end of the week. You are assuming this.

Yes they fdid, you just don't like the colloquial way they said it!

\when one says "that Sabbath was a high day" it means this : "That Saturday was a high day" The little word that means a specific sabbath- trhe one happening teh next day! C'mon this is simple basic grammar that is universal!

 

[Webers_Home]

.

Well interpretation or not- th estated reason was that Saturday was
approaching!

There are at least four sabbaths in the Bible that are totally unrelated to the
normal day of rest.

The Feast of Trumpets. (Lev 23:23-25)

Yom Kippur. (Lev 16:29-34)

The first and last days of the seven-day Feast of Unleavened Bread. (Ex
12:16)

Those high days float, so although it's rare for them to bump up against a
normal day of rest, it does happen now and again; consequently the Jews
have to observe two consecutive sabbaths.

NOTE: Although the normal sabbath is a holy day, it isn't a "high" day like the
four named above; rather, the normal sabbath is routine, i.e. not unusual, not
a big deal.
_

 

[Ronald Nolette]

.


There are at least four sabbaths in the Bible that are totally unrelated to the
normal day of rest.

The Feast of Trumpets. (Lev 23:23-25)

Yom Kippur. (Lev 16:29-34)

The first and last days of the seven-day Feast of Unleavened Bread. (Ex
12:16)

Those high days float, so although it's rare for them to bump up against a
normal day of rest, it does happen now and again; consequently the Jews
have to observe two consecutive sabbaths.

NOTE: Although the normal sabbath is a holy day, it isn't a "high" day like the
four named above; rather, the normal sabbath is routine, i.e. not unusual, not
a big deal.
_

Yes that is true! but teh fact that God inspired the writer to write "That Sabbath" was a high day! To resay it in your way would be to say God inspired That high day was a high day! That is nonsensical. The word that- shows they were referring to one specific day which goes back to "the sabbath" and that a high day describes something about that Sabbath.

If just "high Sabbath " was written, you r argument would have a case, but it denotes that that Saturday was a high day! for it is idiotic to think god would inspire- a statement that also could be read "that high day was a high day!"

 

[CadyandZoe]

when one says "that Sabbath was a high day" it means this : "That Saturday was a high day" The little word that means a specific sabbath- trhe one happening teh next day! C'mon this is simple basic grammar that is universal!

Someone already pointed out that the term "sabbath" can apply to any number of holy days, which means that "sabbath" doesn't necessarily refer to the last day of the week. And if it doesn't necessarily refer to the last day of the week, this fact undercuts your argument.

But let's set that aside for the moment and consider the context.

John 19:30-32
30 Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.

31 Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. 32 So the soldiers came, and broke the legs of the first man and of the other who was crucified with Him;

The proximity of the crucifixion to the Sabbath day is the stated rationale for breaking the legs of those on the cross. If we assume for the sake of argument that "Sabbath" = "Saturday" then John is saying that the Jews broke the legs of anyone who was crucified on Friday, regardless of whether that particular Saturday was a high day or not. The salient point, in this view, is that the bodies not remain on the cross on the Sabbath, i.e. Saturday. And in this view, any mention of the high day is superfluous.

Assuming that mention of the High Day is necessary to our understanding, then John is not suggesting that anyone crucified on a Friday must have the legs broken. He is saying that anyone crucified the day before a High Day is the rationale for breaking the legs. The bodies should not remain on the cross during a High Holy Day. Since mention of the High Holy Day is essential information, then mention of the Sabbath day is superfluous unless a High Holy Day is a particular kind of Sabbath day. In this case, the term "sabbath" is being employed to indicate a day of rest. John means to say that among all the types of days of rest, this particular day of rest is a High Holy Day.

He isn't necessarily saying that this particular High Holy Day fell on a Saturday.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Yes that is true! but teh fact that God inspired the writer to write "That Sabbath" was a high day! To resay it in your way would be to say God inspired That high day was a high day! That is nonsensical. The word that- shows they were referring to one specific day which goes back to "the sabbath" and that a high day describes something about that Sabbath.

If just "high Sabbath " was written, you r argument would have a case, but it denotes that that Saturday was a high day! for it is idiotic to think god would inspire- a statement that also could be read "that high day was a high day!"

It's only nonsensical if we assume "Sabbath"="Saturday" as you suggest. But if "Sabbath" = "Day of Rest", then it makes perfect sense.
John is saying, "that particular day of rest is a High Holy Day" as opposed to the end of the week.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Someone already pointed out that the term "sabbath" can apply to any number of holy days, which means that "sabbath" doesn't necessarily refer to the last day of the week. And if it doesn't necessarily refer to the last day of the week, this fact undercuts your argument.

No. what you have to do is god inspired teh writer to say "that high day was a high day!" For that is your conclusion. But normal grammar and reading shows that , that particular Saturday (Sabbath) was a high day. You need to prove god decided to trash grammar which He created.

It's only nonsensical if we assume "Sabbath"="Saturday" as you suggest. But if "Sabbath" = "Day of Rest", then it makes perfect sense.
John is saying, "that particular day of rest is a High Holy Day" as opposed to the end of the week.

Really??? Sabbath comes from shabot which is seven! Ask any Jew when Sabbath is each week. thbey will tell you it was esatqablished by God on Saturday! So Saturday was teh day of rest! C'mon, this is a silly argument you are proposing.

The proximity of the crucifixion to the Sabbath day is the stated rationale for breaking the legs of those on the cross. If we assume for the sake of argument that "Sabbath" = "Saturday" then John is saying that the Jews broke the legs of anyone who was crucified on Friday, regardless of whether that particular Saturday was a high day or not. The salient point, in this view, is that the bodies not remain on the cross on the Sabbath, i.e. Saturday. And in this view, any mention of the high day is superfluous.

You finally figured out that Friday was the day Jesus died! the high day in the context is superfluous, but is mentioned as an add on. Teh faxct that that particular Saturday was a high day, has no bearing on teh crucifixion itself or the Friday it took place, it justs a further description of that particular Saturday.

Assuming that mention of the High Day is necessary to our understanding, then John is not suggesting that anyone crucified on a Friday must have the legs broken. He is saying that anyone crucified the day before a High Day is the rationale for breaking the legs. The bodies should not remain on the cross during a High Holy Day. Since mention of the High Holy Day is essential information, then mention of the Sabbath day is superfluous unless a High Holy Day is a particular kind of Sabbath day. In this case, the term "sabbath" is being employed to indicate a day of rest. John means to say that among all the types of days of rest, this particular day of rest is a High Holy Day.

but if you follow the normal rules of grammar which are universal, "high day" is a description to the Saturday- high day is not needed to show when Jesus died.

but given that John mentioned that the Friday was the day of preparation ( for the feast of unleavened bread) He simply added it, IMNSHO.

HIgh day modifes the Sabbath or Satureday and not the other way around. Sabbath does not modify the high day.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
I suspect that quite a few Christians have allowed the word "sabbath" to
become locked down in their thinking as strictly limited to the seventh day of
the week; but the Hebrew word doesn't refer to either a number or a
sequence. It simply means, in most respects, intermission, i.e. taking a break.

In some cases, taking a break is necessary to prevent folks from becoming
distracted when their focus should be on something sacred; for example
Feast of Trumpets.

• Lev 23:23-25 . . And The Lord spake unto Moses, saying: Speak unto the
children of Israel, saying, "In the seventh month, in the first day of the
month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy
convocation. Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an
offering made by fire unto The Lord."

Yom Kippur

• Lev 23:26-32 . . And The Lord spake unto Moses, saying: "Also on the
tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall
be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an
offering made by fire unto The Lord. And ye shall do no work in that same
day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before The
Lord your God. . . . It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict
your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even,
shall ye celebrate your sabbath."

And the first and last days of the seven-day Feast of Unleavened Bread.

• Ex 12:16 . . "And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in
the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of
work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only
may be done of you."

The first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread is notable because it's kicked
off by the Passover lamb dinner; which of course means that Passover night
is a sabbath night seeing as all holy days begin and end with sunset.
_

 

[Webers_Home]

.
• John 19:31 . . The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation,

It's commonly assumed that the preparation mentioned in that verse is
relative to the routine day of rest, but the confusion is cleared up in another
context.

• John 19:14 . . And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the
sixth hour:

At that point in the narrative, the Jews had not yet dined on their Passover
lambs.

• John 18:28 . .Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of
judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the
judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the
Passover.

So it's readily discerned that the preparation spoken of in John 19:31 and
John 19:14 had nothing to do with the routine day of rest because it's
specifically related to the Passover lamb dinner.

• John 19:31. . . (for that sabbath day was an high day,)

The Greek word translated "high" in that verse is megas (meg'-as) which
basically means big. Well; Passover is very big in Judaism. Numbers of
secularist atheistic Jews who wouldn't be caught dead in a synagogue will
sometimes make an effort to participate in Passover because it is so
essential to their ethnic identity. Passover is the most important day there is
among the Jews: easily more important than even Yom Kippur.
_

 

[CadyandZoe]

No. what you have to do is god inspired teh writer to say "that high day was a high day!" For that is your conclusion. But normal grammar and reading shows that , that particular Saturday (Sabbath) was a high day. You need to prove god decided to trash grammar which He created.

It isn't a matter of grammar. The grammar supports my view also. Your objection is about grammar, it's about equivalency of terms. As you said in a previous post, you are suggesting that "Sabbath" always refers to "Saturday" and you hear John saying, "Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on [the last day of the week]" as if the issue was a violation of the commandment to rest every seventh day.

Whereas, I argue that "Sabbath" refers to any day of rest, which includes the weekly Sabbath, but also includes the Seven year Sabbath and the Day of Atonement. What I hear John say is, ""Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on [the coming day of rest] because that particular day of rest was a High Holy Day" as if the issue was a violation of the feast of Unleavened Bread. (bad optics)

Really??? Sabbath comes from shabot which is seven! Ask any Jew when Sabbath is each week. thbey will tell you it was esatqablished by God on Saturday! So Saturday was teh day of rest! C'mon, this is a silly argument you are proposing.

If it is silly why do you care? Be careful here. Yes, the word Sabbath comes from seven but it doesn't mean "seven". The word typically refers to the weekly day of rest, but it isn't restricted to that definition as we have already said.

but if you follow the normal rules of grammar which are universal, "high day" is a description to the Saturday- high day is not needed to show when Jesus died.

Of course, but what you don't understand is that IF the High Holy Day fell on the last day of the week, then the gospel account of the events is filled with errors and useless with regard to an accurate accounting of that week. Not only this, but Jesus lied when he claimed to be in the grave for three days and three nights.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If it is silly why do you care? Be careful here. Yes, the word Sabbath comes from seven but it doesn't mean "seven". The word typically refers to the weekly day of rest, but it isn't restricted to that definition as we have already said.

Yes but ask a Jew when is sabbath and they will tell you it is saturday! that is the normal, usual, common way of thinking rand referring to teh Sabbath. Maybe the 54 other times teh sabbath is mentioned in the NT and the hundreds of times in teh OT do not mean the seventh day as was established in creation and encoded in t4eh Mosaic Law, but all of them are based on teh small times Sabbath was uses for a high day! C'mon get real.

Well you can believe what you want but commoons sense, common usage ,, construction of the phrase all show you are wrong- Have fun, have lthe last word. this has become a dead end. YOu want to have Jesus die on another day- fine! YOu are wrong and will stay wrong- but whatever floats your boat.