Did people receive the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues? Or did they speak in tongues ....?

[Dave L]

I know a non-Charismatic woman who killed her baby because of the fear of the Great Tribulation where Sunday keepers would persecute and kill Sabbath keepers. She didn't want her baby to have to face that death.

There are always stories, but what is true is the Word of God and our covenants with Him. The New Covenant does not end until we see Jesus face to face at the second coming. And just as not a jot or a tittle was removed from the Old Covenant until all was fulfilled, not a dotting of an "i" or a crossing of a "t" will be removed until the New Covenant ends. We have the Spirit, AND His gifts. "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

Did you consider Dispensationalism as the status quo eschatology in Charismatic circles? If you add it all up, = serious mental challenges for those who espouse those doctrines. Voices in head, end time delusions, chaos on a grand scale etc., etc.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Did you consider Dispensationalism as the status quo eschatology in Charismatic circles? If you add it all up, = serious mental challenges for those who espouse those doctrines. Voices in head, end time delusions, chaos on a grand scale etc., etc.

I don't know anything about the mockery you are talking about, nor dispensationalism, unless you are talking about these that could be considered dispensations:

In the Garden
After the Garden and before the flood - vegetarian - sacrifices
After the flood - all meats approved - sacrifices
Mosaic - Old Covenant - the law given - only clean meats approved - sacrifices - continues until Jesus
Church - New Covenant - Jesus became the last sacrifice - the Holy Spirit given with gifts and power - all meats approved - continues until Jesus comes the second time.

The fiction that the church is divided up into many dispensations is false according to covenant rules. Nothing changes inside a covenant. Not even church ages could alter the covenant, only how man behaved and developed during the church ages. And even during the different church ages/history there was always a remnant of Spirit-filled people who operated in the gifts. And there were also those who mocked, and even killed them.

 

[Dave L]

I don't know anything about the mockery you are talking about, nor dispensationalism, unless you are talking about these that could be considered dispensations:

In the Garden
After the Garden and before the flood - vegetarian - sacrifices
After the flood - all meats approved - sacrifices
Mosaic - Old Covenant - the law given - only clean meats approved - sacrifices - continues until Jesus
Church - New Covenant - Jesus became the last sacrifice - the Holy Spirit given with gifts and power - all meats approved - continues until Jesus comes the second time.

The fiction that the church is divided up into many dispensations is false according to covenant rules. Nothing changes inside a covenant. Not even church ages could alter the covenant, only how man behaved and developed during the church ages. And even during the different church ages/history there was always a remnant of Spirit-filled people who operated in the gifts. And there were also those who mocked, and even killed them.

Every Pentecostal or Charismatic Church I've been in is Dispensational (rapture theory) and chasing voices and "visions" when they should be studying God's word, the bible. = High level problems, some mental, not found in mainstream churches. Not hearsay, first hand experience.

 

[rockytopva]

Paul says understanding what is said with the mind = edification. And tongue speakers were edified (understood what they were saying).

The fruit of the mind that kills spirituality is no good....

Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. - 2 Corinthians 2:8

 

[Helen]

Every Pentecostal or Charismatic Church I've been in is Dispensational (rapture theory) and chasing voices and "visions" when they should be studying God's word, the bible. = High level problems, some mental, not found in mainstream churches. Not hearsay, first hand experience.

I think that is a bit of a wide sweeping statement Dave. I've been in many Charismatic church groups, and am still of that persuasion...not one that I knew taught or believed in the so called Rapture!!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Every Pentecostal or Charismatic Church I've been in is Dispensational (rapture theory) and chasing voices and "visions" when they should be studying God's word, the bible. = High level problems, some mental, not found in mainstream churches. Not hearsay, first hand experience.

Personally, I don't believe in some secret rapture, seven or three and a half years BEFORE Christ returns with the souls who have previously departed to return to their bodies and be resurrected. Only then shall those who are still alive and remain will be caught up. I do believe though, that there is a set number of Gentiles that will come into the Church called "the fullness of the Gentiles", and then the partially blinded eyes of national Israel will be opened, and they too shall come into the Church during the last seven years. "Those who come out of the Great Tribulations" were already Christians going in, and are spoken about in the letters to the seven churches. For instance, I see Church of Thyatira (RCC) written about " 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds."

As for your mockery of your brothers and sisters in Christ, knock it off! I've see visions, and I'm not nuts, not much anyway. hehehehe

 

[Helen]

As for your mockery of your brothers and sisters in Christ, knock it off! I've see visions, and I'm not nuts, not much anyway.

Haha!! We are in the same 'boat'...visions , dreams, and on Christmas Eve 1975 I heard the audible voice of the Lord, ...I'm totally nuts for sure.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Haha!! We are in the same 'boat'...visions , dreams, and on Christmas Eve 1975 I heard the audible voice of the Lord, ...I'm totally nuts for sure.

PM me and tell me the experience!

 

[Dave L]

Personally, I don't believe in some secret rapture, seven or three and a half years BEFORE Christ returns with the souls who have previously departed to return to their bodies and be resurrected. Only then shall those who are still alive and remain will be caught up. I do believe though, that there is a set number of Gentiles that will come into the Church called "the fullness of the Gentiles", and then the partially blinded eyes of national Israel will be opened, and they too shall come into the Church during the last seven years. "Those who come out of the Great Tribulations" were already Christians going in, and are spoken about in the letters to the seven churches. For instance, I see Church of Thyatira (RCC) written about " 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds."

As for your mockery of your brothers and sisters in Christ, knock it off! I've see visions, and I'm not nuts, not much anyway. hehehehe

God does not move in the ways Charismatics say. And I think some drive themselves crazy over time.

DEPRESSION MORE LIKELY IN PENTECOSTAL SECTS

 

[1stCenturyLady]

God does not move in the ways Charismatics say. And I think some drive themselves crazy over time.

DEPRESSION MORE LIKELY IN PENTECOSTAL SECTS

Says who? You?

 

[Dave L]

Says who? You?

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16–17) (KJV 1900)
If scripture thoroughly furnishes us, where does extra biblical revelation come from?

 

[Helen]

@Dave L

Why don't you just stop now, before you make a worse fool of yourself.

Your worship of the bible is verging on idolatry ... if bibles ever get band, which they will at some point.....If you believe what you post...that God will only speak through the bible... you will be without God or His Voice in your life!
Whereas some of us will still know how to hear from the Lord.

 

[Taken]

Did people receive the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues? Or did they speak in tongues ....?

What is speaking but, to bring forth a persons thought into a verbal and audible sound...

What is tongues, but moving ones tongue, with the intent to cause an audible sound to come forth out of ones mouth.

What is a language, but a way to communicate among men with the same sounds, forming the same words, for intent of expressing ones thoughts to another....verbally or written with common characters.

Language the word is revealed in Scripture; of men have the same Language; and then men having Different Languages.

A man having the Ability to SPEAK IN TONGUES, is a man having the Ability to SPEAK TO a person, IN HIS OWN LANGUAGE, without the Speaker having KNOWN the other language.

It was/is a gift of God, given men who spoke the word of God to Mixed crowds, (who spoke and understood different languages)so that all who came to hear, WOULD be able to HEAR the word of God, In their own language.

Glory to God,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Charismatics ~ Known for their hooting, Hollering, Jumping up and down, waving their arms, etc.....which sets them apart, as those things being charasteristic of what to expect when attending one of their meetings.

UGH!

Glory to God,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[1stCenturyLady]

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16–17) (KJV 1900)
If scripture thoroughly furnishes us, where does extra biblical revelation come from?

Yes, scripture is like manual on being saved, but also about the gifts of the Spirit. Does a manual about how to operate a car become obsolete once you buy a car? Your belief about tongues being the means of receiving scripture, is just wrong. Do you pray? Or is praying obsolete now that we have the Scriptures? Tongues is a means of praying the perfect will of God for things happening in the present. Until we see Christ face to face, He still communicates personally to His people through the gifts. Like me, Jesus tells me what to pray, I pray what He spoke to me, and it comes to pass immediately. That is through another gift of the spirit, called prophecy, or word of wisdom, or word of knowledge, or even interpretation of tongues, if tongues are spoken. The Bible is our manual, not a history book of the 1st century.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

A man having the Ability to SPEAK IN TONGUES, is a man having the Ability to SPEAK TO a person, IN HIS OWN LANGUAGE, without the Speaker having KNOWN the other language.

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

What you learned is from a non-scriptural, human reasoning trying to understand a supernatural ability. This verse is clear that we speak to God, not man. And the only way man can understand surpernatural tongues, is through another supernatural means called the gift of interpretation of tongues. That is what happened on the Day of Pentecost; those Jews devoted to God were given the gift to cause them to come to Christ. Each person heard all of them speak in his own individual language. A supernatural means of understanding a supernatural tongue.

 

[Taken]

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

Why are you quoting to me Scripture about a mystery?

I was not talking about a mysterious language that was not understood by men hearing their own language.

What you learned is from a non-scriptural,

Hogwash. You simply reached for a Scripture that was not speaking about what I was speaking about.

human reasoning

Yes, that is what you were doing. Using your human reasoning to wander off point.

trying to understand a supernatural ability.

Hogwash.
I said nothing about it not being supernatural.

I was speaking about men speaking to men, as IS IN Scripture.

Acts 2
[3] And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
[4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
[5] And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
[6] Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
[7] And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
[8] And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
[9] Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
[10] Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
[11] Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
[12] And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

This verse is clear that we speak to God, not man.

I made NO reference to the "that verse" you quoted.

If you had continued reading other verses IN THAT CONTEXT...
Men speaking in an utterance, as a YOU were talking about, says nothing about them knowing what THEIR words were saying, Just that they were uttering to God, and He would know what they were saying....and it was a Mystery.

Keeping in that context. To what Paul said would be BETTER to do, continues on in
1 Cor 14 and Paul SAYS WHY.

And the only way man can understand surpernatural tongues, is through another supernatural means called the gift of interpretation of tongues.

The "Gift of INTERPRETATION" ? Where is that "gift" spoken of in scripture?

The whole point of Supernatural Power being given "teachers/preachers/disciples" WAS for them to Speak to men IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE...
No Interpretator Necessary.
And If a man IS Speaking to God, what interpretater is Necessary?

That is what happened on the Day of Pentecost; those Jews devoted to God were given the gift to cause them to come to Christ.

Each person heard all of them speak in his own individual language. A supernatural means of understanding a supernatural tongue.

And? The disciples were speaking to a CROWD of people with MIXED languages.
Speaking to men in their own Languages...
Of course other men heard them speaking, so what?
The "other men" didn't require an "interpreter"...they simply had to wait their turn until the Speaker spoke the same message IN THEIR LANGUAGE!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Why are you quoting to me Scripture about a mystery?

I was not talking about a mysterious language that was not understood by men hearing their own language.



Hogwash. You simply reached for a Scripture that was not speaking about what I was speaking about.



Yes, that is what you were doing. Using your human reasoning to wander off point.



Hogwash.
I said nothing about it not being supernatural.

I was speaking about men speaking to men, as IS IN Scripture.

Acts 2
[3] And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
[4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
[5] And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
[6] Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
[7] And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
[8] And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
[9] Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
[10] Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
[11] Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
[12] And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?



I made NO reference to the "that verse" you quoted.

If you had continued reading other verses IN THAT CONTEXT...
Men speaking in an utterance, as a YOU were talking about, says nothing about them knowing what THEIR words were saying, Just that they were uttering to God, and He would know what they were saying....and it was a Mystery.

Keeping in that context. To what Paul said would be BETTER to do, continues on in
1 Cor 14 and Paul SAYS WHY.



The "Gift of INTERPRETATION" ? Where is that "gift" spoken of in scripture?

The whole point of Supernatural Power being given "teachers/preachers/disciples" WAS for them to Speak to men IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE...
No Interpretator Necessary.
And If a man IS Speaking to God, what interpretater is Necessary?





And? The disciples were speaking to a CROWD of people with MIXED languages.
Speaking to men in their own Languages...
Of course other men heard them speaking, so what?
The "other men" didn't require an "interpreter"...they simply had to wait their turn until the Speaker spoke the same message IN THEIR LANGUAGE!

Glory to God,
Taken

Sorry, I thought you were referring to "speaking in tongues." You know, the supernatural ability from the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dave L]

Yes, scripture is like manual on being saved, but also about the gifts of the Spirit. Does a manual about how to operate a car become obsolete once you buy a car? Your belief about tongues being the means of receiving scripture, is just wrong. Do you pray? Or is praying obsolete now that we have the Scriptures? Tongues is a means of praying the perfect will of God for things happening in the present. Until we see Christ face to face, He still communicates personally to His people through the gifts. Like me, Jesus tells me what to pray, I pray what He spoke to me, and it comes to pass immediately. That is through another gift of the spirit, called prophecy, or word of wisdom, or word of knowledge, or even interpretation of tongues, if tongues are spoken. The Bible is our manual, not a history book of the 1st century.

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16–17) (KJV 1900)

“For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.” (2 Peter 1:17–20) (KJV 1900)

But you reject God's word and say scripture is not sufficient. And that extra biblical voices are better when Peter says God speaking vocally to them on the mount of transfiguration did not measure up to the reliability of scripture.

 

[Dave L]

@Dave L

Why don't you just stop now, before you make a worse fool of yourself.

Your worship of the bible is verging on idolatry ... if bibles ever get band, which they will at some point.....If you believe what you post...that God will only speak through the bible... you will be without God or His Voice in your life!
Whereas some of us will still know how to hear from the Lord.

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16–17) (KJV 1900)

“For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.” (2 Peter 1:17–20) (KJV 1900)

But you reject God's word and say scripture is not sufficient. And that extra biblical voices are better when Peter says God speaking vocally to them on the mount of transfiguration did not measure up to the reliability of scripture.