Did people receive the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues? Or did they speak in tongues ....?

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amadeus

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I don't understand if the charismatic experience is valid, why it didn't happen spontaneously to all of Christendom as it did in Acts. But instead, it was conjured up by a couple of questionable fringe groups in the early 1900s.
All Christendom? In Acts a small group of people receive the gift. How many Jews [Israelites, Hebrews] were there at that time? Did all of them hear Jesus? Did all of them follow as they were led to the upper room of Acts chapter 2?
As to what happened in the early 1900's don't presume to understand all of God's plan so well. As Apostle Paul wrote, we see through a glass darkly. This included even that Apostle. When a person sees face to face then the glass darkly for him is no more. Who has attained to it? Perhaps some have been doing so from the start, but who among those who have not attained to is have been able to see so well? You? Me?


The vision exists completely, perfectly for it is God's but who among us has the finished product? You say "conjured up" but your eyes also seeing and incomplete and/or blurry or darkened vision.
 
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amadeus

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It's the letter of the word Paul speaks of. The Spirit brings life to the written word. He doesn't circumvent it as you see today.
Yes, the letter of the written word, which while it remains in the Book alone will never be the Word of God. Bibles are not alive. The Word is Alive. The Word is Life. The Word is Jesus. But the Word also lives in a measure in people. I say in a measure because for us it is not yet finished. When and it is finished, then what shall we be?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2
 

GTW27

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Yes, the letter of the written word, which while it remains in the Book alone will never be the Word of God. Bibles are not alive. The Word is Alive. The Word is Life. The Word is Jesus. But the Word also lives in a measure in people. I say in a measure because for us it is not yet finished. When and it is finished, then what shall we be?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

Blessings in Christ Jesus. It is nice to meet you amadeus. I am a man of no account and yet The Lord sustains me. I also walk in The Spirit as The Lord wills. If while on the street, I meet a person whom truly is born from above, I immediately go in The Spirit because The Spirit bares witness to The Spirit. And if I happen to be at work, and a customer hands me a check with a verse on it, say for example a Psalm, I also, after reading it can feel my countenance changing, and once again I am in The Spirit. Not to argue for I do not come to argue, but perhaps The written Word of God is alive as well. "Heaven and earth may pass away, but my Words will never pass away". I usually thank the customer for changing my countenance and explain the joy they see is because of hearing(reading) my Fathers Words. Long ago, I never could have known that what I was reading would someday flow out of my mouth(belly) like a river just as promised.And He always keeps His promises, including the Spiritual gifts.
 
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Helen

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Blessings in Christ Jesus. It is nice to meet you amadeus. I am a man of no account and yet The Lord sustains me. I also walk in The Spirit as The Lord wills. If while on the street, I meet a person whom truly is born from above, I immediately go in The Spirit because The Spirit bares witness to The Spirit. And if I happen to be at work, and a customer hands me a check with a verse on it, say for example a Psalm, I also, after reading it can feel my countenance changing, and once again I am in The Spirit. Not to argue for I do not come to argue, but perhaps The written Word of God is alive as well. "Heaven and earth may pass away, but my Words will never pass away". I usually thank the customer for changing my countenance and explain the joy they see is because of hearing(reading) my Fathers Words. Long ago, I never could have known that what I was reading would someday flow out of my mouth(belly) like a river just as promised.And He always keeps His promises, including the Spiritual gifts.

Amen..Bless you!
....welcome-sign-smiley-emoticon.gif

Maybe a bit late in saying "welcome to the Site." :)
 
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Dave L

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Yes, the letter of the written word, which while it remains in the Book alone will never be the Word of God. Bibles are not alive. The Word is Alive. The Word is Life. The Word is Jesus. But the Word also lives in a measure in people. I say in a measure because for us it is not yet finished. When and it is finished, then what shall we be?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2
“And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:” (Ephesians 6:17) (KJV 1900)

The problem is that many circumvent the scriptures replacing them with vivid imaginations and wild speculations they think are prophecy.
 
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Dave L

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All Christendom? In Acts a small group of people receive the gift. How many Jews [Israelites, Hebrews] were there at that time? Did all of them hear Jesus? Did all of them follow as they were led to the upper room of Acts chapter 2?
As to what happened in the early 1900's don't presume to understand all of God's plan so well. As Apostle Paul wrote, we see through a glass darkly. This included even that Apostle. When a person sees face to face then the glass darkly for him is no more. Who has attained to it? Perhaps some have been doing so from the start, but who among those who have not attained to is have been able to see so well? You? Me?


The vision exists completely, perfectly for it is God's but who among us has the finished product? You say "conjured up" but your eyes also seeing and incomplete and/or blurry or darkened vision.
What happened in the 1900s was a major division based on false experiences that led people away from the church into sects and cults. And it's easy to measure the fruits thereof today.
 
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Dave L

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you should spend more time in Christ, than you might be set free..
You'll only ever know Christ through the scriptures. Beyond the scriptures you are in the devil's domain. Just as King Saul who sought extra-biblical revelations.
 

mjrhealth

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You'll only ever know Christ through the scriptures. Beyond the scriptures you are in the devil's domain. Just as King Saul who sought extra-biblical revelations.
That is your unbelief, and we are not going to unbeliever just because you dont believe, besides imagine how it would be if every one did what Christ asked and followed after Him you would have no one to rule and reign over, would you. And

Exo_7:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Pharaoh's heart is hardened, he refuseth to let the people go.

some things just never change
 
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Dave L

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That is your unbelief, and we are not going to unbeliever just because you dont believe, besides imagine how it would be if every one did what Christ asked and followed after Him you would have no one to rule and reign over, would you. And

Exo_7:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Pharaoh's heart is hardened, he refuseth to let the people go.

some things just never change
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16–17) (KJV 1900)

You think scripture is incomplete, that we are not throughly furnished by it = doubt God's word. And look beyond in the devil's domain for extra biblical revelations just as King Saul did.
 
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amadeus

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Blessings in Christ Jesus. It is nice to meet you amadeus. I am a man of no account and yet The Lord sustains me. I also walk in The Spirit as The Lord wills. If while on the street, I meet a person whom truly is born from above, I immediately go in The Spirit because The Spirit bares witness to The Spirit. And if I happen to be at work, and a customer hands me a check with a verse on it, say for example a Psalm, I also, after reading it can feel my countenance changing, and once again I am in The Spirit. Not to argue for I do not come to argue, but perhaps The written Word of God is alive as well. "Heaven and earth may pass away, but my Words will never pass away". I usually thank the customer for changing my countenance and explain the joy they see is because of hearing(reading) my Fathers Words. Long ago, I never could have known that what I was reading would someday flow out of my mouth(belly) like a river just as promised.And He always keeps His promises, including the Spiritual gifts.
And also nice to meet you. I also don't come here to argue or to win debates. If I help someone get closer to God or someone helps me, was it not worth the effort?

People have made the Bible as if the book itself were something alone. It really is not. A Bible put on a shelf 50 or a 100 years but never opened and now thrown by some careless or uncaring person into the fire will burn up. It was never alive. What is written comes to Life when a person yields or surrenders to the Holy Spirit. This as I see it the man eating the flesh of Jesus and drinking his blood as per John chapter 6. It perhaps analogous to the man in his flesh who eats the dead meat of a cow. When it is sifted and digested the carnal red blood of the man will actually bring that dead cow meat to life as a part of the physical body of the man. That is the carnal or natural.

The spiritual speaks of the Body of Christ, which was NOT the physical body in which he dwelt on planet Earth for 33½ years. Jesus was and is the Head of the Body, but Body, that on which the Head will finds it place of rest is those temples that have come to Life and become a part of that Body.

Reading the Bible is a good thing when done with a good purpose. I have read mine not less than 2 hours a day for many years. By doing so I know that I have grown, but the growth which has occurred is because of the Holy Spirit working in me.

A real and sincere atheist reading the Bible solely to trip up those called Christians could spend the same amount of time and more in his own spirit and receive not truth at all... that is, no Life at all in the eyes of God.

If on the other hand an unbeliever [even an atheist] reads the Bible really seeking truth, whatever it is, then we would expect that God would provide what is sought:

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6
 

amadeus

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What happened in the 1900s was a major division based on false experiences that led people away from the church into sects and cults. And it's easy to measure the fruits thereof today.
You've read the viewpoint of the opposition or of the majority, but you tend to forget that when Jesus walked the planet as a man, the majority of the people who had seemingly been chosen as God's people took their hands off of him and he was standing alone or almost alone when they led him to the cross to die. Why would you presume that the majority now is wiser and more correct than the majority then?
 
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mjrhealth

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All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16–17) (KJV 1900)

You think scripture is incomplete, that we are not throughly furnished by it = doubt God's word. And look beyond in the devil's domain for extra biblical revelations just as King Saul did.
yo ukeep saying taht ans till here you are not walking in the truth, you could start preaching teh Koran, it too is scriptrure by definition...
 
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Dave L

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You've read the viewpoint of the opposition or of the majority, but you tend to forget that when Jesus walked the planet as a man, the majority of the people who had seemingly been chosen as God's people took their hands off of him and he was standing alone or almost alone when they led him to the cross to die. Why would you presume that the majority now is wiser and more correct than the majority then?
Because, OT Israel consisted of a majority of unbelievers whom God removed in judgement at Calvary. Leaving only believers to whom he attaches believing gentiles. The gates of hell will not prevail against us. But he sends strong delusion to those who do not love the truth, and great apostasy follows. Which we see today. Narrow is the way and few there be that find it.
 

amadeus

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Because, OT Israel consisted of a majority of unbelievers whom God removed in judgement at Calvary. Leaving only believers to whom he attaches believing gentiles. The gates of hell will not prevail against us. But he sends strong delusion to those who do not love the truth, and great apostasy follows. Which we see today. Narrow is the way and few there be that find it.
Dave try speaking only for yourself from your own heart about things you know or believe rather than from the opinions of men and/or those of the majority of people bearing the label of Christian today.

You say that OT Israel consisted of mostly unbelievers, but why would that be different among those bearing the label Christian today? Ultimately God judges people based upon what they, each one of them, have done with what He, God, has provided. The Way to Life has always [OT and NT] been narrow. Only two adults made from Egypt to the Promised Land although a great many made through the wide gate out of Egypt following the steps of Moses. This is the type or shadow of the strait and narrow versus the broad that Jesus describes here:

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matt 7:13-14


Then see the situation as it was for Moses and for Jesus. Following Moses all of the Israelites gladly ate the manna falling from heaven 6 mornings per week. But from the 600,000 men only Caleb and Joshua were faithful to the end.

Do we not see the connection or similarly between that and what Jesus said here?

"Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed." John 6:26-27


Consider all of the thousands God fed among those followers of Moses and all of the thousands God fed among those followers of Jesus.

Yes, they followed but only a two made it to the end in the OT wilderness and only a few made it to the end in the NT wilderness.

Following the crowd will NOT lead us into the Promised Land of God. We will die in the wilderness. You speak as if following the Bible theologians, even the good ones, would assure us of following Jesus to the end of the road... to the Light... to the Promised Land.

Even Paul, as greatly used as he was by God, recognized his own limitations and warned us about it:

"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." I Cor 11:1

In other words, follow our leaders given to us by God as they follow Christ. If any on them miss, even Paul the apostle, don't follow them into a ditch. This means don't presume that even the sincere leaders are faultless... Paul speaks again of this here:

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Phil 2:12

No man who is not already an overcomer as Jesus was an overcomer will always lead you exactly right to God. Each of us must work things out for himself make his own decisions. We can listen to others and be advised by others, but when we make our final decision it needs to be ours.
 
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Dave L

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Dave try speaking only for yourself from your own heart about things you know or believe rather than from the opinions of men and/or those of the majority of people bearing the label of Christian today.

You say that OT Israel consisted of mostly unbelievers, but why would that be different among those bearing the label Christian today? Ultimately God judges people based upon what they, each one of them, have done with what He, God, has provided. The Way to Life has always [OT and NT] been narrow. Only two adults made from Egypt to the Promised Land although a great many made through the wide gate out of Egypt following the steps of Moses. This is the type or shadow of the strait and narrow versus the broad that Jesus describes here:

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matt 7:13-14


Then see the situation as it was for Moses and for Jesus. Following Moses all of the Israelites gladly ate the manna falling from heaven 6 mornings per week. But from the 600,000 men only Caleb and Joshua were faithful to the end.

Do we not see the connection or similarly between that and what Jesus said here?

"Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed." John 6:26-27


Consider all of the thousands God fed among those followers of Moses and all of the thousands God fed among those followers of Jesus.

Yes, they followed but only a two made it to the end in the OT wilderness and only a few made it to the end in the NT wilderness.

Following the crowd will NOT lead us into the Promised Land of God. We will die in the wilderness. You speak as if following the Bible theologians, even the good ones, would assure us of following Jesus to the end of the road... to the Light... to the Promised Land.

Even Paul, as greatly used as he was by God, recognized his own limitations and warned us about it:

"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." I Cor 11:1

In other words, follow our leaders given to us by God as they follow Christ. If any on them miss, even Paul the apostle, don't follow them into a ditch. This means don't presume that even the sincere leaders are faultless... Paul speaks again of this here:

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Phil 2:12

No man who is not already an overcomer as Jesus was an overcomer will always lead you exactly right to God. Each of us must work things out for himself make his own decisions. We can listen to others and be advised by others, but when we make our final decision it needs to be ours.
I speak only what the church has spoken for centuries. You speak from a splinter group understanding from the early 1900s. If the truth doesn't change, who is right? You? Meaning the entire church has been wrong wrong for millennia?
 

amadeus

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I speak only what the church has spoken for centuries. You speak from a splinter group understanding from the early 1900s. If the truth doesn't change, who is right? You? Meaning the entire church has been wrong wrong for millennia?
You speak from the conclusions of men and accuse me of doing the same thing. I speak from my heart and from what God has spoke to my heart. You may not accept that, but my testimony remains my testimony even though your disbelieve it.
Give God the glory!
 

mjrhealth

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Is Paul speaking of the Bible or the Koran here?
for you it may not matter since you dont believe God can speak to you, so we have no idea who you are listening to if it isnt God... and you are here trying to teach...
 
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Dave L

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for you it may not matter since you dont believe God can speak to you, so we have no idea who you are listening to if it isnt God... and you are here trying to teach...
But God only speaks verbally through scripture. Everything else is probably the onset of mental illness.