Difference between the Old and New Covenant

[veteran]

But eating those things does not make one unclean spiritually in any matter or form. Christ commanded Peter to eat such things, once!

No, God did not command Peter to 'literally' eat unclean animals. God gave Peter that dream to symbolize those unclean animals on the blanket as Gentiles...

Acts 10:26-28
26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.
28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
(KJV)

You're correct eating outside God's health law has no effect upon our spirit unto Salvation, but Christ's Apostles did preach for us to use temperance in regards to our flesh body. So it's kind of ignorance to totally disregard this in favor of some man that gets up in the pulpit and tells us we can do absolutely anything we want to our body.

I agree with you that righteousness is in no way done away with, and we are held to do what is right still.

But we are now also called to walk in a higher righteousness, the righteousness of God, or holiness. This does not negate the first, but goes beyond it. We are called to walk according to the Spirit, in perfect communion with the Father.

We are actually called to walk by The Spirit, and one of the main purposes of the giving of The Holy Spirit was so God could write His laws in our hearts and minds per The New Covenant (Heb.8 & 10), His no longer having need to dictate them by letter like per the Old Covenant priesthood and such. We're to walk in the spirit of them, not by rote. Yet how many of us truly listen to The Holy Spirit today? If we don't listen to The Holy Spirit guiding us in these things, then we default to what this world says. And it says... eat ANYTHING and EVERYTHING, take PILLS and DOPE, DRINK and be merry, i.e., the exact opposite of moderation.

I am not so worried about people still looking at the law and wishing to do what is right, love God and their neighbour. That is good. But if one wishes to be perfect, mature, whole, a disciple, one must go beyond this.

What I fear is people who preach we have to do less now, rather than going further.

Problem is, the false teaching that all of God's laws are now done away with is the opposite of that. It instead is saying that we each can go our 'own' way, and against the things our Lord said for us to do. We cannot do our own Salvation, for we must have a pattern for that true righteousness, and that pattern is established in God's Holy Writ as given by The Holy Spirit.

God's laws involve real science of how He established His creation. In the dark ages doctors would use a bowl of water to wash their hands, going from patient to patient, and soon wondered why all the patients began to get the same illnesses. Then God's laws about cleanliness was remembered, for the priests were told to wash under 'running' water, not standing water. And whadda' ya' know, it's a common truth today that running water is an aid to cleanliness and protection against unclean things. Somewhere I had a long list someone made up of scientific discoveries where secular science aligned with many of God's laws in that way above, through hard-lesson discovery. It only proves that God knew what He was doing when He gave those kind of laws.

Now secular man has cross-bred plants and played with their genetics so much, we now know those hybrids are not as nutritious. Crossing of a male donkey and a female horse to produce a mule that is infertile is another sign of leaving God's laws setup to govern His creation.

On the moral side of His laws, the punishments in His law are still in effect upon the wicked today, which is what Paul taught in 1 Timothy 1 and Galatians 5. It just shouldn't be that hard to figure out that we have many false prophets and hirelings out there in the Churches that are merely following the planting of a lie regarding the denial of how many of God's laws still act as protections and safeguards for His people today. The "workers of iniquity" want us to totally get away from that, so they can destroy us. God's people must have a law, and it can be either from God Who only knows true righteousness, or it can be the secular laws of men, which are always doomed to failure, and only produce conditions for creating more unjust laws on top of that.

 

[Comm.Arnold]

Not a whole lot different, disobedience brings punishment, obedience brings blessings.

 

[Vengle]

Prentis:

When Veteran says this, "You're correct eating outside God's health law has no effect upon our spirit unto Salvation", I both agree and disagree with him.

But that is because, having reasoned Genesis 9: 3-4 through, lead me to see what our doctors actually have to say about the health aspect that is claimed by so many.

And the claim that these prohibitions were in effect before the flood is false. God spoke of their taking on the ark a lessor number of animals that were unclean from the stand point of how hard it is to clean up after them, and they jumped on that opportunity to say it is the same thing as under that Old Law. God showed wisdom there on behalf of those 8 person's need to be responsible to keep it clean inside that ark for the entire year they would be in it.

That is comparable to our need to be in charge of keeping things clean inside Christ who is our ark of salvation, even making sure that the body of Christ is not over-run with persons of unclean habit.

First, God would have said at to Noah, at Genesis 9: 3-4, that he could eat only certain ones of the animals if they were actually harmful to eat because our faith tells us that God would not ask us to do anything bad. But God did not. Read it.

Second, if anyone refrains from eating those things for non-religious reasons that is their right of choice.

Third, even foods that were not considered unclean under that Old Law can be bad health-wise for certain people who have sensitivities to what is in them.

Many doctors say that pork is good for us. They even say that it is better for us than beef. They emphasize that we should choose white meats over the red meats for the health benefits. So the health claims that people like as Veteran make are highly debatable since the Bible no where specifically says of these meats that they are bad for our physical health.

Still, they do not sin by choosing to play it safe in accord to what they imagine to be true, if they are not doing it as a vanity service to God. And that is because God wants them to focus on cleaning the heart rather than focusing on their physical bodies which could preoccupy all of their attention.

But Veteran is right about things like the priests being told to wash under running water and that protecting them from what that doctors of the world had to learn the hard way.

That just proves what I said about Genesis 9:3-4, "God would have said at to Noah, at Genesis 9: 3-4, that he could eat only certain ones of the animals if they were actually harmful to eat because our faith tells us that God would not ask us to do anything bad. But God did not. Read it."

You have heard me say many times that we benefit from pondering that Old Law. That is but one way we benefit.

Veteran is right that many (in my wording) 'throw the baby out with the bath water'. But not all of us do. And just because there are points where Veteran and I disagree does not prove I have done so but perhaps to his imagination.

Conversely, Veteran's insistence that there are yet parts of that Old Law we yet need to observe does not prove him necessarily to be yet under that Old Law. Dangerously close perhaps, but not under it. I see that all of the things Veteran thinks we need to find yet in that Old Law are there for us in the love of Christ. And so I do not obey any law because that Old Law says to, but I obey what is in Christ as I am supposed to see it. On my own interpretation of that law it is hit and miss yet. When I get my law through the love of Christ it is not.

 

[Vengle]

This is the important thing:

We know that the counsel of the Apostles tells us that to freely and willingly allow ourselves to sin places us back under that Old Law. (And that is the worst way of placing ourselves back under it.)

That is because we must either choose to let the love of the spirit of life in Christ regulate us internally or God requires us to be regulated externally.

Galatians 5:18 "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."

1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers." (Compare: 1 John 3:4)

It is a fool that thinks God is going to allow us to exist unregulated. If we choose to disregard the law of the love of the life that is in Christ then that Old Law yet judges us. Many deny this, preferring a freer theology, but it is a fact. And the more one examines the scriptures the more one realizes it is a fact, unless they are searching with tinted glasses that prefer a specific desired belief.

But a man does not sin if he uses that Old Law lawfully: 1 Timothy 1:8 "But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully."

Nothing in the scriptures says that we cannot observe that Old Law. The focus is that we should see the need to not depend on having to be externally told what to do from a hand-written set of detailed codes. That is because when we do obey that way it does not prove but rote obedience. Additionally the lack in freedom for loves flexibility can cause what is good to be used in a way that harms others at times.

For example if people were starving to death and all we had to give them to eat was pork, would we withhold it from them?

God expects us to keep his laws good by moderating them with justice and mercy and faith which worketh by love. Christ teaches us how when we depend on the spirit he is helping us build in ourselves after his image.

Matthew 23:23 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."

Galatians 5:6 "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love."

It is about spiritual balance.

 

[veteran]

Prentis:

When Veteran says this, "You're correct eating outside God's health law has no effect upon our spirit unto Salvation", I both agree and disagree with him.

But that is because, having reasoned Genesis 9: 3-4 through, lead me to see what our doctors actually have to say about the health aspect that is claimed by so many.

And the claim that these prohibitions were in effect before the flood is false. God spoke of their taking on the ark a lessor number of animals that were unclean from the stand point of how hard it is to clean up after them, and they jumped on that opportunity to say it is the same thing as under that Old Law. God showed wisdom there on behalf of those 8 person's need to be responsible to keep it clean inside that ark for the entire year they would be in it.

That is comparable to our need to be in charge of keeping things clean inside Christ who is our ark of salvation, even making sure that the body of Christ is not over-run with persons of unclean habit.

First, God would have said at to Noah, at Genesis 9: 3-4, that he could eat only certain ones of the animals if they were actually harmful to eat because our faith tells us that God would not ask us to do anything bad. But God did not. Read it.

Second, if anyone refrains from eating those things for non-religious reasons that is their right of choice.

Third, even foods that were not considered unclean under that Old Law can be bad health-wise for certain people who have sensitivities to what is in them.

Many doctors say that pork is good for us. They even say that it is better for us than beef. They emphasize that we should choose white meats over the red meats for the health benefits. So the health claims that people like as Veteran make are highly debatable since the Bible no where specifically says of these meats that they are bad for our physical health.

Still, they do not sin by choosing to play it safe in accord to what they imagine to be true, if they are not doing it as a vanity service to God. And that is because God wants them to focus on cleaning the heart rather than focusing on their physical bodies which could preoccupy all of their attention.

But Veteran is right about things like the priests being told to wash under running water and that protecting them from what that doctors of the world had to learn the hard way.

That just proves what I said about Genesis 9:3-4, "God would have said at to Noah, at Genesis 9: 3-4, that he could eat only certain ones of the animals if they were actually harmful to eat because our faith tells us that God would not ask us to do anything bad. But God did not. Read it."

You have heard me say many times that we benefit from pondering that Old Law. That is but one way we benefit.

Veteran is right that many (in my wording) 'throw the baby out with the bath water'. But not all of us do. And just because there are points where Veteran and I disagree does not prove I have done so but perhaps to his imagination.

Conversely, Veteran's insistence that there are yet parts of that Old Law we yet need to observe does not prove him necessarily to be yet under that Old Law. Dangerously close perhaps, but not under it. I see that all of the things Veteran thinks we need to find yet in that Old Law are there for us in the love of Christ. And so I do not obey any law because that Old Law says to, but I obey what is in Christ as I am supposed to see it. On my own interpretation of that law it is hit and miss yet. When I get my law through the love of Christ it is not.

Lot of that isn't really what I was saying. And MOST doctors will tell you that pork is UNHEALTHY to eat. Why?

Because it's a scavenger God created to help cleanse the earth. It retains poisons and has no sweat glands, and will and can eat anything, because that's how it's designed. But with God's clean list of meats created to be received, those eat grains, their systems designed to process grains from the earth, which is why those meats are healthy for us. The madcow disease is the result of cattle being fed grain feed mixed with animal products. God didn't create cattle to digest meat, but grains, which there again, shows that our Heavenly Father knew what He was doing when He setup the laws governing His creation.

Gen 7:2
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
(KJV)

What is that pointing to, when God told Noah to take on the ark of CLEAN beasts by SEVENS, but all others only by TWO's? It pretty well is telling that Noah was to use those clean beasts for food. Just because no direct command was written to eat only clean meats in Noah's day, doesn't mean they didn't already know.

Any insinuations that I'm following the Old Covenant when I speak of these things is nothing but ignorance, plain and simple. Those who think I'm preaching bondage to the Old Covenant reveal just how far away from God's Word they have gotten with listening to the false prophets of this world instead.

 

[veteran]

This is the important thing:

We know that the counsel of the Apostles tells us that to freely and willingly allow ourselves to sin places us back under that Old Law. (And that is the worst way of placing ourselves back under it.)

That is because we must either choose to let the love of the spirit of life in Christ regulate us internally or God requires us to be regulated externally.

Galatians 5:18 "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."

1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers." (Compare: 1 John 3:4)

It is a fool that thinks God is going to allow us to exist unregulated. If we choose to disregard the law of the love of the life that is in Christ then that Old Law yet judges us. Many deny this, preferring a freer theology, but it is a fact. And the more one examines the scriptures the more one realizes it is a fact, unless they are searching with tinted glasses that prefer a specific desired belief.

But a man does not sin if he uses that Old Law lawfully: 1 Timothy 1:8 "But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully."

Nothing in the scriptures says that we cannot observe that Old Law. The focus is that we should see the need to not depend on having to be externally told what to do from a hand-written set of detailed codes. That is because when we do obey that way it does not prove but rote obedience. Additionally the lack in freedom for loves flexibility can cause what is good to be used in a way that harms others at times.

For example if people were starving to death and all we had to give them to eat was pork, would we withhold it from them?

God expects us to keep his laws good by moderating them with justice and mercy and faith which worketh by love. Christ teaches us how when we depend on the spirit he is helping us build in ourselves after his image.

Matthew 23:23 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."

Galatians 5:6 "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love."

It is about spiritual balance.

Now that indeed is a lot closer to what I was saying concerning God's laws.

Paul said to eat whatever is sold in the shambles (meat market) (1 Cor.10). That means eat to survive, don't make it a religious requirement. Our Lord Jesus freed us from playing religion using the things in this world, which is a lot of what paganism is about.

 

[Vengle]

Lot of that isn't really what I was saying. And MOST doctors will tell you that pork is UNHEALTHY to eat. Why?

Because it's a scavenger God created to help cleanse the earth. It retains poisons and has no sweat glands, and will and can eat anything, because that's how it's designed. But with God's clean list of meats created to be received, those eat grains, their systems designed to process grains from the earth, which is why those meats are healthy for us. The madcow disease is the result of cattle being fed grain feed mixed with animal products. God didn't create cattle to digest meat, but grains, which there again, shows that our Heavenly Father knew what He was doing when He setup the laws governing His creation.

Gen 7:2
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
(KJV)

What is that pointing to, when God told Noah to take on the ark of CLEAN beasts by SEVENS, but all others only by TWO's? It pretty well is telling that Noah was to use those clean beasts for food. Just because no direct command was written to eat only clean meats in Noah's day, doesn't mean they didn't already know.

Any insinuations that I'm following the Old Covenant when I speak of these things is nothing but ignorance, plain and simple. Those who think I'm preaching bondage to the Old Covenant reveal just how far away from God's Word they have gotten with listening to the false prophets of this world instead.

In the past I have researched that about the lack of sweat glands in pigs and found articles by experts in the field who explained that pigs do not build up toxins as many claim because though they do not have sweat glands they do aspirate in a few other ways that are as effective at cleaning their body's systems. They pointed out that if it were true then pigs would not live as long as they do as the excessive toxins would kill them just as it would any of us.

I looked at a chart of measurements of various toxins in the different kinds of meat and found that the toxins in pork while higher than some meats was not as high as in others. And some of the good meats under the law showed similar toxin levels.

But as you say, the way we raise and feed things like our beef cattle can be the cause of their toxin levels, just as adding meat product to their feed causes mad cow disease.

The doctors are also no doubt biased by whether they are Christian, Muslim, or Atheist, and so forth. It is a messed up world out there that one never knows but what the doctor promotes is for a kickback of money from the pork dresser industry.

So you are absolutely right. It is better to trust what we know God has approved or disapproved even though we are no longer under that Old Law Covenant.

You have won me on that point.