Discernment vs Critisism

[CharismaticLady]

I am not going to quote them for you so that you can pick them apart. You are going to have to come across them in your own reading time. Look for that word "imputed" though in the kjv.

Silly, I already know them. They are in Romans 4 and 5. Well, actually 5 is about sin NOT being imputed to us when there is not law. But those are all about the law and the power of grace as an introduction to the ministry of the Spirit.

You say you are in the flesh. But when you have the Spirit of God indwelling you, your nature is NOT in the flesh but in the Spirit. See the difference. See Romans 8:9.

This business of taking verses out of context, especially those Paul is referring to the Old Covenant in preparation for learning about the New Covenant and applying them to yourself means you want to be under the Law, not the Spirit. That is where the false doctrine of Antinomianism came from that 2 people on the forums hold to stubbornly. I know I have showed you this many times and you still quote 1 John 1:8, not realizing that those in the New Covenant are NOT sinners, but children of God, 1 John 3:1. As for the use of "we" and "I", both Paul and John use that tense. It is a teaching tool. Just like in Hebrews 10:26. But you have to ask yourself WHEN would that apply, and it is BEFORE you come to Christ and repent of your sins - THE VERY NEXT VERSE!!! They MUST be read together. Here is the Good News for Modern Man translation. Maybe you'll be able to see it now. Or maybe not. Oy vey!

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and there is no truth in us. 9 But if we confess our sins to God, he will keep his promise and do what is right: he will forgive us our sins and purify us from all our wrongdoing.

Now 1 John 3:5 will make more sense to you instead of ignoring it.

5 You know that Christ appeared in order to take away sins, and that there is no sin in him. (Does that sound like someone with sin in them???)

THEREFORE, if you have been cleansed of all your past sins, you are free from sin. NOW you are a child of God, and no longer a sinner. John 8:32-36.

Another verse you love to take out of context is Paul calling himself the chief of sinners. The CONTEXT is above that verse where Paul talks of his FORMER life.

Again, this has been pointed out to you also. Man, these concepts are not that hard to understand if you will just read the CONTEXT!!! Don't keep being Proverbs 1:7.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Ty and, yes his yoke is lighter than I would have thought. No, I'm not apathetic, especially about sinning as, I know that does not please God and quenches His Holy Spirit.
Ha, you are like me as, I've done the same thing with the dishes, only to find I'm out of paper plates Funny thing is that, once I got rid of the dishwasher (old, broken down) my sink remains empty as I decided to never let it get full again and, it's only happened a couple times...don't like getting up to them in the sink, puts me in a growly mood...lol.

Oh, the dishes are just one of many procrastinations. My thing is, I'll do them when I'm not in so much pain. That goes for the rest of the house too!

 

[Nancy]

Oh, the dishes are just one of many procrastinations. My thing is, I'll do them when I'm not in so much pain. That goes for the rest of the house too!

Yes, everything in increments! Hahaha. Ordered your book, btw.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yes, everything in increments! Hahaha. Ordered your book, btw.

But also, the same amount of dish soap will do 10 and not just one. You should see my stove. Half of it is stacked with every dirty pot and pan I own.

I'm sorry I didn't get that book to you. I had to go by the post office, and the part where you talk to an actual person is closed. You have to buy stamps from the vending machine.

 

[Mike Waters]

Ha, you are like me as, I've done the same thing with the dishes, only to find I'm out of paper plates Funny thing is that, once I got rid of the dishwasher (old, broken down) my sink remains empty as I decided to never let it get full again and, it's only happened a couple times...don't like getting up to them in the sink, puts me in a growly mood...lol.

Whilst Christine (my Wife) has been away in respite with her two sons I've disregarded our dishwasher in favour of hand washing, drying and putting away all my cutlery and crockery immediately I've finished using them
So I wake up to total cleanliness and tidiness.....wonderful fillip for the day!

 

[Nancy]

Whilst Christine (my Wife) has been away in respite with her two sons I've disregarded our dishwasher in favour of hand washing, drying and putting away all my cutlery and crockery immediately I've finished using them
So I wake up to total cleanliness and tidiness.....wonderful fillip for the day!

Oh yes Mike, it is a nice start to the day and, I tell my niece who is living with me now that, I do not ever want to get up to a sink full of dirty dishes and...she complies!!! Yay. You and your wife are in my thoughts and prayers ❤
Do you have family nearby Mike?

 

[Joseph77]

.... hmmm..... where does she hide the dirty dishes ? (obviously she doesn't leave them in the sink! )

 

[Nancy]

.... hmmm..... where does she hide the dirty dishes ? (obviously she doesn't leave them in the sink! )

Ahaha...no, she washes them to a certain extent but, I do end up re-washing some lol.

 

[Nancy]

But also, when the same amount of dish soap with do 10 and not just one. You should see my stove. Half of it is stacked with every dirty pot and pan I own.

I'm sorry I didn't get that book to you. I had to go by the post office, and the part where you talk to an actual person is closed. You have to buy stamps from the vending machine.

Oh yeah, I've been there with the every single thing dirty for quite awhile because, I just didn't care at that point in my life. So, in a mad crazy moment one day, I just tossed the lot of it out and bought everything paper and plastic! Yikes what a waste of money But, He has me back on track now.
NOOOO...you wrote the book, so I prefer to pay for it and it is not expensive. I will read it and I will let you know what I think!

 

[Mike Waters]

Oh yes Mike, it is a nice start to the day and, I tell my niece who is living with me now that, I do not ever want to get up to a sink full of dirty dishes and...she complies!!! Yay. You and your wife are in my thoughts and prayers ❤
Do you have family nearby Mike?

Both my children from my first marriage, and my grandchildren, all live in the Dordogne area of France.

 

[Nancy]

Both my children from my first marriage, and my grandchildren, all live in the Dordogne area of France.

How far is that from you? If I lived near you, I would be helping you brother...I'd even cook for you! That's about my only talent
Since that is impossible right now, I will pray God send you helpers throughout all of this.
In His love,
nancy

 

[FollowHim]

Just wondering - at what point do you believe discernment crosses the line into criticism, and how do you check yourselves to make sure that you walk in discernment, but not take on a critical spirit?

Discernment brings light to a subject, criticism judges the bringer of the subject with bad intent.
Such words as "brain washed" "anti Christ" "evil" "deception" "leading to hell" etc.
I shared on love and following Christ, on putting Him first and seeking His will to be met with this abuse. It was for me so odd, because I was sharing God's word. Paul said "Love with sincerity" but for these folk it made them angry. Everyone with the fruits of the spirit had the same effect.

Paul said are words are condemnation to the lost but life giving fragrance to the elect. We cannot change spiritual realities, just know they exist. God bless you

 

[Mike Waters]

How far is that from you? If I lived near you, I would be helping you brother...I'd even cook for you! That's about my only talent
Since that is impossible right now, I will pray God send you helpers throughout all of this.
In His love,
nancy

I've lot my passport, it's too far by car, and even if I got a new passport I couldn't handle the 90 minute flight in a face mask. I tried one yesterday for the first time and I couldn't tolerate it for more than few minutes.
At least I'm getting the hang of heating ready made meals, but thanks for the thought.

 

[Nancy]

I've lot my passport, it's too far by car, and even if I got a new passport I couldn't handle the 90 minute flight in a face mask. I tried one yesterday for the first time and I couldn't tolerate it for more than few minutes.
At least I'm getting the hang of heating ready made meals, but thanks for the thought.

Aw, tv dinners, huh? Yes, those face masks are horrible, has us breathing in way too much co2. We have been having quite the heat wave last couple weeks. In the 90's as well as the humidity being up to almost 100%. There is this older couple (mid 80's) a few doors down and, the woman is very stubborn. I have told them both countless times that when it is that hot out, let me run to the store for you but, nope...her doctor tells her to walk for exercise Anyhow, I saw her passing my house, with the mask on as well! About an hour later her, I got a call from her well, boyfriend....they won't marry because she will lose her deceased husbands social security...anyhow, he calls me wondering if she were at my place talking. She wasn't...so I went down the street to speak to another person she might have talked with...they live in the same apartment building, she told me that she saw her pushing her walker to the door. Then, he called me back and said a black woman had called the ambulance...I saw my lovely neighbor moving fast across the street (my side) and thought it might have been one of her kids across the street and they are not allowed to cross it without her. She is the one who called the ambulance as she saw the woman fall backward passed out. She stayed at the hospital overnight as she hit her head pretty badly and she is on thinners! I will be giving her what for when I see her next!!! Anyhow, no...they are not saved and do not seem to want to hear about it so...I just keep my mouth shut and pray for them.
So, I don't blame you at all for not wanting to get on a flight wearing that darned face mask...for now it's okay as one of my mini schnauzers ate my lower partial the other night!!! Lol...she is a dirty, rotten little stinker! But cute as all get out!
You have a lovely day Mike!
In His Love,
nancy

Discernment brings light to a subject, criticism judges the bringer of the subject with bad intent.
Such words as "brain washed" "anti Christ" "evil" "deception" "leading to hell" etc.
I shared on love and following Christ, on putting Him first and seeking His will to be met with this abuse. It was for me so odd, because I was sharing God's word. Paul said "Love with sincerity" but for these folk it made them angry. Everyone with the fruits of the spirit had the same effect.

Paul said are words are condemnation to the lost but life giving fragrance to the elect. We cannot change spiritual realities, just know they exist. God bless you

Kudos to you brother.

 

[Scoot]

Discernment brings light to a subject, criticism judges the bringer of the subject with bad intent.
Such words as "brain washed" "anti Christ" "evil" "deception" "leading to hell" etc.
I shared on love and following Christ, on putting Him first and seeking His will to be met with this abuse. It was for me so odd, because I was sharing God's word. Paul said "Love with sincerity" but for these folk it made them angry. Everyone with the fruits of the spirit had the same effect.

Paul said are words are condemnation to the lost but life giving fragrance to the elect. We cannot change spiritual realities, just know they exist. God bless you

Thanks for that. I like the direction of discernment being about subject - not the person - but is there a time (and if there is, at what time is it) - that discernment will become about the person and not merely about the subject - (such as a false prophet, a wolf in sheep's clothing, charlatan, etc).

The safest place to be I would agree would be to stick solely to the subject - but in another case - as a father of a daughter who's getting older and will have to go through the 'dating game' at some stage - I can't help but think that discernment of character is also something that is applicable at times too?

 

[Joseph77]

When a father learns godliness from all of God's Word, and not from men, (not from society or the world),
he does not raise his child in the wrong way,
rather in the way they should go,
and God's Word says that when they are older, they will not depart from it.

 

[FollowHim]

Thanks for that. I like the direction of discernment being about subject - not the person - but is there a time (and if there is, at what time is it) - that discernment will become about the person and not merely about the subject - (such as a false prophet, a wolf in sheep's clothing, charlatan, etc).

The safest place to be I would agree would be to stick solely to the subject - but in another case - as a father of a daughter who's getting older and will have to go through the 'dating game' at some stage - I can't help but think that discernment of character is also something that is applicable at times too?

Jesus is our example to follow. Jesus spoke to the group who behaved a particular way but left it up to the listener to decide where they were in the group. I have found this extremely powerful, because in truth I do not know peoples positions, and often they have nuances that they do not declare which give them a get out of jail card. But equally those who it matches 100% are never going to admit it, because the way of the world is dominance not humbleness. It is ironic if I am found to be in sin and I repent, I have admitted the situation and responded.

One believer felt I was guilty of sin and needed to repent and believe on Jesus, so tried to abuse me. The ironic point was as a believer I have repented and put my faith in Jesus 100% so his approach was pointless. But it was driven by a man who earlier in his life knew his faith was just a shell over failure and lostness in his life, and the push made him realise how much he needed Jesus. To this I say amen, except his faith was in Jesus who could not change him or bring about the realisation of redemption and cleansing, only trust for justification. He ended up a dying hand grenade primed to destroy anyone who got too close. His theory was fine, as long as he never met someone who knew the Lord.

You have a dilemma here. A believer who never finds Jesus, believes to make sense of this, the reality must be stay a sinner but with faith in Christs redemption and that is the gospel. The enemy are those who say Jesus can really deliver, because they must be lying, or else the believer would also have experienced this. My answer to this is simple. A hard heart has no clue as to true cleansing, because to admit this was possible would break open their hard heart. The fruit of such a heart was no empathy. I tried every strategy I could, but it was like speaking a foriegn language. So I knew the Kingdom and its language is limited by the openness of the hearer.

Now this could be viewed as me being totally judgemental of an individual, but it is what happened and is still true today. I am not bring critical, because in my heart I dearly wish things were not like this, but sweet fellowship in Christ could flow between us. But without the heart there is no fellowship, only argument and justification of theology and position. God bless you

 

[justbyfaith]

I know I have showed you this many times and you still quote 1 John 1:8, not realizing that those in the New Covenant are NOT sinners, but children of God,

Yes we are children of God; and in this we are not sinners: in that we "do not" and "can not" sin as those who are born of God (1 John 3:9) and "sin not" as those who are abiding in Christ (1 John 3:6).

But we are sinners in that until we get a new, glorified body, our bodies are vile (Philippians 3:21 (kjv)); that is, they have indwelling sin.

Phl 3:20, For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Phl 3:21, Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

We cannot do the things that we would (Galatians 5:17).

Our flesh has lusts in it (1 John 2:16) and the Holy Ghost, by His love, restrains us from living according to those lusts.

It is indeed the desire of the new nature that we not sin.

If you have no desire in your old nature to sin, it is not because you have no sin in you (to say that, you would be deceiving yourself and the truth would not be in you); but because sin is rendered dead in you.

 

[Nancy]

Jesus is our example to follow. Jesus spoke to the group who behaved a particular way but left it up to the listener to decide where they were in the group. I have found this extremely powerful, because in truth I do not know peoples positions, and often they have nuances that they do not declare which give them a get out of jail card. But equally those who it matches 100% are never going to admit it, because the way of the world is dominance not humbleness. It is ironic if I am found to be in sin and I repent, I have admitted the situation and responded.

One believer felt I was guilty of sin and needed to repent and believe on Jesus, so tried to abuse me. The ironic point was as a believer I have repented and put my faith in Jesus 100% so his approach was pointless. But it was driven by a man who earlier in his life knew his faith was just a shell over failure and lostness in his life, and the push made him realise how much he needed Jesus. To this I say amen, except his faith was in Jesus who could not change him or bring about the realisation of redemption and cleansing, only trust for justification. He ended up a dying hand grenade primed to destroy anyone who got too close. His theory was fine, as long as he never met someone who knew the Lord.

You have a dilemma here. A believer who never finds Jesus, believes to make sense of this, the reality must be stay a sinner but with faith in Christs redemption and that is the gospel. The enemy are those who say Jesus can really deliver, because they must be lying, or else the believer would also have experienced this. My answer to this is simple. A hard heart has no clue as to true cleansing, because to admit this was possible would break open their hard heart. The fruit of such a heart was no empathy. I tried every strategy I could, but it was like speaking a foriegn language. So I knew the Kingdom and its language is limited by the openness of the hearer.

Now this could be viewed as me being totally judgemental of an individual, but it is what happened and is still true today. I am not bring critical, because in my heart I dearly wish things were not like this, but sweet fellowship in Christ could flow between us. But without the heart there is no fellowship, only argument and justification of theology and position. God bless you

I think there are so many (believers as well as un-believers) who do not like what they see when:
"...He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;"
John 18:8

His light shines into the darkness of our heart of hearts, He shows the ugliness of the sin that is in us. We all hate it, or should hate it when we are sinning in some way. Some simply blind themselves to their own sin because they do not trust Christ to be sufficient. It's like they are sticking their heads in the sand, denial. Christians aren't exempt from this either, I don't think.

Anyhow-those who will not hear, we just dust the sandles off

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yes we are children of God; and in this we are not sinners: in that we "do not" and "can not" sin as those who are born of God (1 John 3:9) and "sin not" as those who are abiding in Christ (1 John 3:6).

But we are sinners in that until we get a new, glorified body, our bodies are vile (Philippians 3:21 (kjv)); that is, they have indwelling sin.

Phl 3:20, For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Phl 3:21, Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

We cannot do the things that we would (Galatians 5:17).

Our flesh has lusts in it (1 John 2:16) and the Holy Ghost, by His love, restrains us from living according to those lusts.

It is indeed the desire of the new nature that we not sin.

If you have no desire in your old nature to sin, it is not because you have no sin in you (to say that, you would be deceiving yourself and the truth would not be in you); but because sin is rendered dead in you.

Oh my, J, who we truly are is not our body, but our nature and spirit. They are what had to be reborn, and they took on immortality. The "flesh" of 1 John 2:16 is not our body, but our nature, which had to become new and we are NOT in the flesh but in the Spirit if the Spirit of God indwells us. Romans 8:9. There is no "indwelling sin" in our body, but because of the sin of Adam, our body must die physically before it can take on immortality like the rest of our being did when we were born again.

An unsaved person's carnal flesh/nature cannot ever please God. They do not have the Holy Spirit.

You are not the first one to confuse the two meanings of "flesh." But don't believe everything you are taught. Search the scriptures yourself to see if those things are true.