Discernment vs Critisism

[Enoch111]

Just wondering - at what point do you believe discernment crosses the line into criticism, and how do you check yourselves to make sure that you walk in discernment, but not take on a critical spirit?

Discernment means the sifting of lies from the truth. The sifting of the carnal from the spiritual.The sifting of chaff from the wheat. This should be an ongoing process, since Christians are told to prove all things, and only hold fast to that which is good.

Criticism includes the pointing out of error in those who PERSIST in error. And there is nothing wrong with that. Christ criticized the religious leaders of His day in no uncertain terms. In fact He brought woes upon them (which only God can pronounce).

Today Christians are bombarded by false brethren, false apostles, false prophets, and false teachers. To suggest that criticism of the wolves is un-Christian is to avoid the plain teaching of the Bible. We see a daily dose of false teachings on Christian forums, and people should know what is true and what is false.

 

[Joseph77]

Today Christians are bombarded by false brethren, false apostles, false prophets, and false teachers. To suggest that criticism of the wolves is un-Christian is to avoid the plain teaching of the Bible. We see a daily dose of false teachings on Christian forums, and people should know what is true and what is false.

This perhaps needs to be explained more.

Many would say that people "should know what is true and what is false", but when? Where ? How ? On Christian forums all over the place, and Christian churches all over the world, not to mention the millions of other places, errors and false teachings appear to be flourishing and welcome and encouraged, without correction, without restraint, in most places, at all. (including those with false leaders/ false purposes/ false plans to start with, not just those open to the public , that might have started "right" so to speak, not realizing how much the public would come in with unrepentant sin and wicked practices ... )

 

[justbyfaith]

I'll go the extra mile, just in case the forgiveness of my own trespasses depends on it. Heaven is nothing to play chance with. Besides, unforgiveness of a trespass may be a trespass held against me! Trespasses may be small, but they are big enough to prevent me from being perfect as Jesus told us to be.

My entrance into heaven isn't based on my own life being perfect anyway. If that were the case, no one would enter in.

The reality is that Jesus suffered and died in our place so that His perfect life might be applied to our account.

Jesus told me that if my brother sins against me, to rebuke him; and to forgive him if he repents. So that id what I'm going to do.

My being forgiven is not based on my forgiving this guy if he doesn't repent. I am only required to forgive him if he does repent.

That being spoken, I extend forgiveness to the man; and say that I do forgive him the moment he repents.

But since he is a Catholic, I think he needs to confess to me and receive penance from me as I am a priest according to 1 Peter 2:9. (I am saying this tongue-in-cheek).

 

[LC627]

Prayerfully consider if there is any beam in my own eyes I need to remove. Criticism involves condemnation - discernment has a different attitude approach to the situation. One that's humble and if a rebuke is necessary it's done from love.

 

[Joseph77]

Prayerfully consider if there is any beam in my own eyes I need to remove. Criticism involves condemnation - discernment has a different attitude approach to the situation. One that's humble and if a rebuke is necessary it's done from love.

Partly right - (from memory) , yes - "if there is any beam in my own eyes" then yes, remove it, why ? so then you can turn and help others get the tiny splinters out of their eyes, YES !
No, criticism does not involve condemnation.... or it does not have to at all - why do you think it did before ?

Yes, rebuke openly - as written "open rebuke is better than hidden love" ... if someone stays quiet when they see something sinful being done or approved of, in someone they have a way of speaking to, then by being quiet they may be found guilty of the same sin, without committing the sin - just because they stayed silent (as if because of love!) instead of using open rebuke as directed.

Always do what is best for the other person, as written in Scripture....

 

[Nancy]

We're supposed to follow the Spirit in season and out of season. Out of season means we go through times when it is particularly difficult not to be grumpy and critical. We have to wade into these troubled waters, and still testify to the grace and power of God. Just persist, and keep a loving attitude up front. Do all things for the purpose of edification. Consider others better than yourselves. The servant is the greatest. The last shall be the first. You know the verses. The Spirit will help you. Practice it every day. You'll never be perfect, but you'll become the measure against which others will judge themselves, as well.

Amen Randy,
In and out of season...yes. I call them peaks and valleys and I find it is so important to try and find His joy in the midst of sorrow.

Then we have Hebrews 5:14
"But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil."

 

[Giuliano]

Criticism includes the pointing out of error in those who PERSIST in error. And there is nothing wrong with that. Christ criticized the religious leaders of His day in no uncertain terms. In fact He brought woes upon them (which only God can pronounce).

I don't think Jesus' motive in criticizing hypocrites was to try to help them. I think he was pointing out to ordinary folks what many of them suspected already. He was telling them not to be duped or impressed by them, not to feel inferior to the puffed-up hypocrites. Jesus' goal to help other people.

 

[justbyfaith]

I don't think Jesus' motive in criticizing hypocrites was to try to help them. I think he was pointing out to ordinary folks what many of them suspected already. He was telling them not to be duped or impressed by them, not to feel inferior to the puffed-up hypocrites. Jesus' goal to help other people.

I think that He was also trying to win them. Many of the priests put their faith in Jesus after He rose from the dead (Acts of the Apostles 6:7).

It was prophesied in Malachi that the Lord would come to the priests and would be as a refiner's fire and as fuller's soap.

It would accomplish the thing that the Lord desired for it to accomplish.

 

[CharismaticLady]

My entrance into heaven isn't based on my own life being perfect anyway. If that were the case, no one would enter in.

We mostly agree, but on this we never have. Now I'm not saying we know everything that we may be doing wrong, but according to the light we have, we should be living that life perfectly. And what's more, it is the Holy Spirit that empowers us to do so, and teaches us more and more as we live this life. Not for sanctification, but for glorification.

 

[justbyfaith]

We mostly agree, but on this we never have. Now I'm not saying we know everything that we may be doing wrong, but according to the light we have, we should be living that life perfectly. And what's more, it is the Holy Spirit that empowers us to do so, and teaches us more and more as we live this life. Not for sanctification, but for glorification.

God counts our entire lives against us if we base our salvation on our performance (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48).

If we count that we are saved through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, it is this unmerited favour that means forgiveness for past, present, and future sins.

 

[LC627]

Partly right - (from memory) , yes - "if there is any beam in my own eyes" then yes, remove it, why ? so then you can turn and help others get the tiny splinters out of their eyes, YES !
No, criticism does not involve condemnation.... or it does not have to at all - why do you think it did before ?

Yes, rebuke openly - as written "open rebuke is better than hidden love" ... if someone stays quiet when they see something sinful being done or approved of, in someone they have a way of speaking to, then by being quiet they may be found guilty of the same sin, without committing the sin - just because they stayed silent (as if because of love!) instead of using open rebuke as directed.

Always do what is best for the other person, as written in Scripture....

Criticism hardly ever comes with a loving attitude.

 

[CharismaticLady]

If we count that we are saved through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, it is this unmerited favour that means forgiveness for past, present, and future sins.

Hi Brother, Again we disagree, but I want you to show that ALL OUR SINS, include not just up to the point Jesus takes our old sins away as in 2 Peter 1:9, but the sins we haven't even committed yet. And if so, what type of sins would they be. Like major sins like willful sins of lawlessness like murder and stealing, or minor sin such as disagreements on the forums I call trespasses?

 

[Nancy]

Hi Brother, Again we disagree, but I want you to show that ALL OUR SINS, include not just up to the point Jesus takes our old sins away as in 2 Peter 1:9, but the sins we haven't even committed yet. And if so, what type of sins would they be. Like major sins like willful sins of lawlessness like murder and stealing, or minor sin such as disagreements on the forums I call trespasses?

Hey Lady
"...but the sins we haven't even committed yet."
My own opinion is that Christ died for all sin for all people for all time and, we hadn't committed a single one when He died so, didn't He already know the sins we would commit even before we were born? As this is off topic I will just say that if we are truly walking with Him, we will learn to hate sin as He does and sin less and less as we grow in Him. It seems that sin means different things to different people but, I do understand now, what you mean by trespasses

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi Brother, Again we disagree, but I want you to show that ALL OUR SINS, include not just up to the point Jesus takes our old sins away as in 2 Peter 1:9, but the sins we haven't even committed yet. And if so, what type of sins would they be. Like major sins like willful sins of lawlessness like murder and stealing, or minor sin such as disagreements on the forums I call trespasses?

I was merely waiting for your disagreement, so that I could show scripturally how & why our present and future sins are redeemed and not just our past ones.

Rom 4:8, Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

The Lord will not impute sin to the redeemed man, when he commits them in the future.

Rom 8:38, For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

This includes present and future sins.

Heb 9:12, Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

"eternal redemption" means redemption that will last for ever; even in the instance that we would sin against the Lord.

But I would say to you, @CL, that if you are putting your trust in your ability not to sin, you are not putting your trust in the forgiveness that Jesus provided for you on the Cross. You very likely will sin at some point in the future; and when that occurs, you are going to need forgiveness. I don't believe that the Lord will preserve you so that you do not sin, if you are trusting in your own sinlessness to save you; for in doing so your trust would be more in yourself than in the Cross of Jesus Christ; and the Lord does not want that to be in competition with the Cross. So, He will allow you to sin in order that your trust may enter wholly into the Cross. For there is no forgiveness apart from the Cross; and if you are trusting in your own sinlessness to be your salvation, you are not trusting in the Cross and/or receiving the forgiveness that comes about as the result of trusting in the Cross. The very first sin that you commit (whether in time or eternity) will place you smack dab in the center of hell; because it will not be forgiven through the Cross since you were not trusting in the Cross but in your own slnlessness to save you.

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi Brother, Again we disagree, but I want you to show that ALL OUR SINS, include not just up to the point Jesus takes our old sins away as in 2 Peter 1:9, but the sins we haven't even committed yet. And if so, what type of sins would they be. Like major sins like willful sins of lawlessness like murder and stealing, or minor sin such as disagreements on the forums I call trespasses?

In answer to your other question, all sins are under the blood; we are not under the law, are dead to it, and are delivered from it as concerning condemnation (Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19, Romans 7:6).

However, if we are truly born again, the law has been written on our hearts and in our minds (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4).

Therefore our general direction is going to be away from sin; and the worst types of sins will not be committed by us (unless we were really bad before becoming born again).

 

[Joseph77]

Criticism hardly ever comes with a loving attitude.

Multitudes of , billions of inhabitants , of this world, know this as you also know, experientially, through and in most encounters in life with family, neighbors, even friends, co-workers, and religious groups.

A wise person loves criticism, even if it is not what you would like or expect criticism to be, or to be like.
Also, when found,
However, the life of Jesus, the body of Christ, the people born again by the will of the Father from heaven, the people holy - set apart by God for God for Himself, are unique in the world in this respect (although not totally free of your charge, correct - they can still be some of the 'worst' for a while, cant' they ? ) ....

The wisdom from above, the criticism directed in line with God's Way, is not at all like any of the character of the world and carnal population - and is rarely found....

So part of finding true wisdom, true knowledge, in Christ Jesus, is seeking Him, seeking God's Kingdom, different totally from the world kingdom, the ones who are living faithful and truthful by God's Plan and Purpose, in Grace, in Christ Jesus....

 

[CharismaticLady]

Rom 8:38, For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

This includes present and future sins.

Those are all outside influences, so how do you surmise that an inward act should be included in this list?

Rom 4:8, Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

The Lord will not impute sin to the redeemed man, when he commits them in the future.

6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven,
And whose sins have been covered.
8 “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.”

This is someone who has offered a sacrifice of a bull or goat to cover his sins, temporarily. Paul is still teaching on the Old Covenant law in Romans 4. It is right in the middle of the whole teaching from chapter one through chapter 8. This is not the first time you take verses out of context. You did it also when you posted (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48).

Galatians 3:10 A "work" of the law would be an outside work from the Old Covenant such as circumcision, the Sabbath, eating only clean meat, feast days. Anything done in your own power from a carnal nature.

James 2:10 is again talking about the laws of the Old Covenant as you see the commandments are listed. The verse for a true Christian is verse 12. We are under the law of Liberty.

Matthew 5:48. It is interesting that you put the verse that Jesus commands us to be perfect. Perhaps you believe this is after death, but it is not. It is our responsibility to never grieve or quench the Spirit, IF He indwells us.

But I would say to you, @CL, that if you are putting your trust in your ability not to sin, you are not putting your trust in the forgiveness that Jesus provided for you on the Cross. You very likely will sin at some point in the future; and when that occurs, you are going to need forgiveness. I don't believe that the Lord will preserve you so that you do not sin, if you are trusting in your own sinlessness to save you; for in doing so your trust would be more in yourself than in the Cross of Jesus Christ; and the Lord does not want that to be in competition with the Cross. So, He will allow you to sin in order that your trust may enter wholly into the Cross. For there is no forgiveness apart from the Cross; and if you are trusting in your own sinlessness to be your salvation, you are not trusting in the Cross and/or receiving the forgiveness that comes about as the result of trusting in the Cross. The very first sin that you commit (whether in time or eternity) will place you smack dab in the center of hell; because it will not be forgiven through the Cross since you were not trusting in the Cross but in your own slnlessness to save you.

It is not MY ability to not sin, but because of the new nature that Jesus gave me 43 years ago. I just don't have any desire to sin. And because in my older years the Spirit has taught me that our only requirement is to make sure we live daily in giving forgiveness to others.

 

[Nancy]

Those are all outside influences, so how do you surmise that an inward act should be included in this list?




7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven,
And whose sins have been covered.
8 “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.”

This is someone who has offered a sacrifice of a bull or goat to cover his sins, temporarily. Paul is still teaching on the Old Covenant law in Romans 4. It is right in the middle of the whole teaching from chapter one through chapter 8. This is not the first time you take verses out of context. You did it also when you posted (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48).

Galatians 3:10 A "work" of the law would be an outside work from the Old Covenant such as circumcision, the Sabbath, eating only clean meat, feast days. Anything done in your own power from a carnal nature.

James 2:10 is again talking about the laws of the Old Covenant as you see the commandments are listed. The verse for a true Christian is verse 12. We are under the law of Liberty.

Matthew 5:48. It is interesting that you put the verse that Jesus commands us to be perfect. Perhaps you believe this is after death, but it is not. It is our responsibility to never grieve or quench the Spirit, IF He indwells us.




It is not MY ability to not sin, but because of the new nature that Jesus gave me 43 years ago. I just don't have any desire to sin. And because in my older years the Spirit has taught me that our only requirement is to make sure we live daily in giving forgiveness to others.

"Those are all outside influences, so how do you surmise that an inward act should be included in this list?"
Good question.

"Galatians 3:10 A "work" of the law would be an outside work from the Old Covenant such as circumcision, the Sabbath, eating only clean meat, feast days. Anything done in your own power from a carnal nature."

Yes, and it was a temporary fix. We now have His laws etched on the lining of our hearts ❤ and what He works in us, we would naturally want to live it out or, work out our own salvation.

"Matthew 5:48. It is interesting that you put the verse that Jesus commands us to be perfect. Perhaps you believe this is after death, but it is not. It is our responsibility to never grieve or quench the Spirit, IF He indwells us."

Now, this is where I have to disagree with the meaning of "perfect". It has always meant completeness in Christ to me. I do agree we are not to quench the Spirit and if I do, it hurts my heart so it does not happen often, praise God!
perfect,
τέλειοι (teleioi)
Adjective - Nominative Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 5046: From telos; complete; neuter completeness.
xo

 

[CharismaticLady]

Now, this is where I have to disagree with the meaning of "perfect". It has always meant completeness in Christ to me. I do agree we are not to quench the Spirit and if I do, it hurts my heart so it does not happen often, praise God!
perfect,
τέλειοι (teleioi)
Adjective - Nominative Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 5046: From telos; complete; neuter completeness.
xo

Complete in Him would be being just like Him wouldn't it. He is perfect, and He is to be the first of many brethren just like Him. Romans 8:29-30. Someone who is perfect never stumbles. Those who know this truth are never apathetic, and indeed, "work out their own salvation" Good word, Nancy. Study these verses which have become my favorites this year.

2 Peter 1:2-11
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Complete in Him would be being just like Him wouldn't it. He is perfect, and He is to be the first of many brethren just like Him. Romans 8:29-30. Someone who is perfect never stumbles. Those who know this truth are never apathetic, and indeed, "work out their own salvation" Good word, Nancy. Study these verses which have become my favorites this year.

2 Peter 1:2-11
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

@Nancy, that last part I put in red seems to me to strive for perfection if never stumbling assures the entrance to the everlasting kingdom of Jesus.