Discernment vs Critisism

[CharismaticLady]

Father, I pray for @CharismaticLady that you deliver her from the spirit that tells her she has no indwelling sin so that she deceives herself and the truth is not in her.

I'll take all the prayer you would like to give me, but God will only answer to the point I am lacking. According to Scripture, He is already pleased with me and answers all my prayers. 100% for the past 43 years. I'll let you know if He answers yours.

1 John 3:21-24

Jesus was manifest to take away our sin and in Him there is no sin. I am in Him and He is in me. I praise God that on Feb. 9, 1977 He took out my old nature of flesh, and transported me into the Spirit, and I've never quenched Him. He is on my mind 24/7/365

He has taught me His truth, and it would good for you to learn even half what I would love to teach you, so you could live your life to the fullest. But if you are going to be Proverbs 1:7, I might as well brush the dust off my feet and let you live in denial and defeat.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Father, I pray for @CharismaticLady that you deliver her from the spirit that tells her she has no indwelling sin so that she deceives herself and the truth is not in her. I just ask You in the Mighty Name of Jesus to open her eyes to this reality of scripture. Help her to stop ignoring important Bible passage that speak of the reality of indwelling sin. Cause her to understand that I am not excusing sinful behaviours with my doctrine but am being faithful to the testimony of the whole counsel of You. Show her that she does indeed have indwelling sin; and if it has been rendered dead already then I praise You for that. But I ask that You will take her out of her denial of the truth by showing her that You died for sinners and if she thinks she is not a sinner then she believes that she doesn't need Your forgiveness and therefore she will not avail herself of Your sacrifice by faith. In Jesus' Name, Amen.

My wife prayed for me recently that I would pray heartfelt and genuine (public) prayers that would work wonders in people's lives as they consider what God is going to do for them. So, I thought I would begin with this thing as it is the prayer of my heart.

@CL, I would encourage you to read Luke 18:9-14 and Psalms 51:3 together.

In my own personal testimony, the Lord showed me both of these scriptures in my regular devotional time which was a regimen of reading through sections of the Bible side-by-side. It is nothing short of a miracle, in my opinion, that I came across these two passages in the same sitting because they are so far apart.

I pray the Lord that He will reveal to you, through them, the same thing that He revealed to me.

Love in Christ,

@justbyfaith.

I'm not praising myself as the Pharisee. You don't know me, but my friends do. And they know the before and after. The new me is a gift from God because I couldn't be righteous on my own. He changed me overnight. My life confirms that His word is true. Your teachings call Him a liar.

 

[CharismaticLady]

But I ask that You will take her out of her denial of the truth by showing her that You died for sinners and if she thinks she is not a sinner then she believes that she doesn't need Your forgiveness and therefore she will not avail herself of Your sacrifice by faith. In Jesus' Name, Amen.

Don't you know that 1 John 1:9 cleanses us from ALL unrighteousness. I already repented in 1977, and not only were my past sins taken away, but the nature that spewed out sin 24/7 was born again. You only need to truly repent once to receive His powerful sinless Spirit, and never have to deal with the burden of sin again. I know this doesn't seem possible to you, but it does to those who have already repented and been filled with His Spirit.

 

[Enoch111]

...and never have to deal with the burden of sin again

There is a big difference between "the burden of sin" (which is removed when a sinner repents and believes), and the presence of sin (because no Christian is sinlessly perfect).

You are simply deceiving yourself -- and others -- by claiming that you do not sin. Indeed, making such a claim -- according to the Bible -- is a sin itself.

 

[CharismaticLady]

There is a big difference between "the burden of sin" (which is removed when a sinner repents and believes), and the presence of sin (because no Christian is sinlessly perfect).

You are simply deceiving yourself -- and others -- by claiming that you do not sin. Indeed, making such a claim -- according to the Bible -- is a sin itself.

According to the Bible? Big book, Enoch. What are your sources, because my Bible tells me that Jesus frees us from sin. Is that just part way, or free indeed? John 8:34-36

And the only verse I know of that states that claiming to be free from sin when you are not and a sin is 1 John 1:8 and 10. All that person needs to do is verse 9, to be free from sin in actuality. Then claiming the truth that they are indeed free from sin is NOT a lie. To lie and say you still have sin when you don't is a slap in the face to what Jesus did on the cross. Shame on you.

 

[justbyfaith]

Shame on you, @CL.

1 John 1:8 is clear in saying that if we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Therefore if what you say is true (that in saying we have sin we are slapping Jesus in the face), we would not be lying to say that we have sin. Because the obvious confession of real faith is that we have indwelling sin. And therefore, if it is a slap in the face to say this to Jesus if it is a lie, then obviously it must not be a lie. Otherwise we are slapping Jesus in the face by making a biblical confession.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Shame on you, @CL.

1 John 1:8 is clear in saying that if we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Therefore if what you say is true (that in saying we have sin we are slapping Jesus in the face), we would not be lying to say that we have sin. Because the obvious confession of real faith is that we have indwelling sin. And therefore, if it is a slap in the face to say this to Jesus if it is a lie, then obviously it must not be a lie. Otherwise we are slapping Jesus in the face by making a biblical confession.

If you can't think logically, and know that there are people in the world and in the Church who are not saved, who sin, but say that because they are not under the law, the sins they commit are not sins anymore, then I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. You believe 1 John 1:8 and live by it, and I will live the life of a true Christian whose desire to sin has been taken away. 1 John 3:5

Discussing this further with you is unfruitful Proverbs 1:7

 

[justbyfaith]

If you can't think logically, and know that there are people in the world and in the Church who are not saved, who sin, but say that because they are not under the law, the sins they commit are not sins anymore, then I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. You believe 1 John 1:8 and live by it, and I will live the life of a true Christian whose desire to sin has been taken away. 1 John 3:5

Discussing this further with you is unfruitful Proverbs 1:7

Fine, don't discuss it with me any further. This means that I have the last word.

Indwelling sin is a reality according to 1 John 1:8; but this does not mean that we as sanctified believers live by it (that is, the principle of indwelling sin).

For it can indeed be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any authority over our behaviour.

We are sinners who don't sin; as long as we abide in Christ (1 John 1:8, 1 John 3:6).

This is the reality of scripture.

I am glad for you that you only commit unintentional sins (because you have admitted to this fact); but the fact that you still do means that you are still a sinner (and this, in the sense that you commit sin).

What is the reason why you sin? If it is not because of indwelling sin then you have deeper problems. Because then you would be sinning not because of sin's influence over you, but all on your own; which would make all your sins, that you say are unintentional, willful. And therefore you have no excuse.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I am glad for you that you only commit unintentional sins (because you have admitted to this fact); but the fact that you still do means that you are still a sinner (and this, in the sense that you commit sin).

What is the reason why you sin?

We didn't touch on the unintentional sins that are not unto death, that Jesus as our Advocate doesn't charge us with while we walk in the Spirit. So that still leaves us sinless. 0 + 0 = 0

Now you can have the last word.

 

[justbyfaith]

We didn't touch on the unintentional sins that are not unto death, that Jesus as our Advocate doesn't charge us with while we walk in the Spirit. So that still leaves us sinless. 0 + 0 = 0

Now you can have the last word.

If I commit an unintentional sin, it is still a sin.

And if I sin, I am a sinner.

 

[CharismaticLady]

To everyone else. In Jesus there is no sin. 1 John 3:5. You are not a sinner, but a child of God.

 

[justbyfaith]

To everyone else. In Jesus there is no sin. 1 John 3:5. You are not a sinner, but a child of God.

To everyone else. If you believe her that you are without sin, you will be deceiving yourself and the truth will not be in you.

If you are a child of God, you are not a sinner in that you "do not" and "can not' sin (1 John 3:9) as one who is born of God, and that you "sin not" (1 John 3:6) as one who abides in Christ.

But you are a sinner in that you have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8, Romans 7:18, Galatians 3:22, Romans 3:23, 1 Timothy 1:15, etc.).

In the sanctified believer the element of sin is rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over his behaviour.

 

[farouk]

Thanks for that. I like the direction of discernment being about subject - not the person - but is there a time (and if there is, at what time is it) - that discernment will become about the person and not merely about the subject - (such as a false prophet, a wolf in sheep's clothing, charlatan, etc).

The safest place to be I would agree would be to stick solely to the subject - but in another case - as a father of a daughter who's getting older and will have to go through the 'dating game' at some stage - I can't help but think that discernment of character is also something that is applicable at times too?

@Scoot Philippians 4.8: 'Whatsoever things are true....' (etc.) is a good verse to remember, when it comes to seeking to think in a Godly way, by God's grace.

 

[Scoot]

Now this could be viewed as me being totally judgemental of an individual, but it is what happened and is still true today. I am not bring critical, because in my heart I dearly wish things were not like this, but sweet fellowship in Christ could flow between us. But without the heart there is no fellowship, only argument and justification of theology and position. God bless you

I'm not sure it is totally being judgmental. (That is part of the reason for my question).

Jesus tells us not give what is holy to dogs, or to cast our pearls amongs swine. (Matt 7:6). The disciples shook the dust off their feet from anyone who would not accept them. Acts 13:51.

As I try to reconcile this with the err of being judgmental - it seems that there is a place for discernment. I don't believe either instances are condemning people - but realising that there is no fruit / no point to continuing wasting time and resources in that particular scenario and to move on to another that would bear more fruit. As an investor would say - invest where you can expect to get a return on your investment.

My concern at the moment is I seem to be seeing a significant increase in flaws from the pulpit with sermons. Scriptures used way out of context, and even to a point where I question the gospel message that is being preached. It first came from a point where I 'discovered' it - and sadly now to a point where I'm expecting there to be numerous significant flaws in most sermons from certain preachers now.

A good part of the reason for my original question is that I'm wanting to check myself to make sure that my change from noticing it in passing, to being alert and concerned hasn't changed from discernment to being critical.