Dispensational problems

[Iconoclast]

20. Despite the dispensationalists’ vigorous assertion that their system never has taught two ways of salvation (Couch), one by law-keeping and one by grace alone, the original Scofield Reference Bible, for instance, declared that the Abrahamic and new covenants differed from the Mosaic covenant regarding “salvation” in that “they impose but one condition, faith” (SRB, see note at Ex. 19:6).

 

[Iconoclast]

21. Contrary to the dispensationalists’ central affirmation of the “plain interpretation” of Scripture (Charles Ryrie) employing (alleged) literalism, the depth of Scripture is such that it can perplex angels (1 Pet 1:12), the Apostle Peter (2 Pet 3:15-16), and potential converts (Acts 8:30-35); requires growth in grace to understand (Heb 5:11-14) and special teachers to explain (2 Tim 2:2); and is susceptible to false teachers distorting it (1 Tim 1:7).

 

[Iconoclast]

22. Despite the dispensationalists’ claim to be following “the principle of grammatical-historical interpretation” (Charles Ryrie), they have redefined the method in a way that is rejected by the majority of non-dispensational evangelicals (and even “progressive dispensationalists”) who see that the Bible, while true in all its parts, often speaks in figures and types—e.g., most evangelicals interpret the prophecy in Isaiah and Micah of “the mountain of the house of the Lord being established as the chief of the mountains” (Isa 2:2b, Mic. 4:1b) to refer to the exaltation of God’s people; whereas dispensationalism claims this text is referring to actual geological, tectonic, and volcanic mountain-building whereby “the Temple mount would be lifted up and exalted over all the other mountains” (John Sailhammer) during the millennium.

 

[Iconoclast]

23. Despite the dispensationalists’ conviction that their “plain interpretation” necessarily “gives to every word the same meaning it would have in normal usage” (Charles Ryrie) and is the only proper and defensible method for interpreting Scripture, by adopting this method they are denying the practice of Christ and the Apostles in the New Testament, as when the Lord points to John the Baptist as the fulfillment of the prophecy of Elijah’s return (Matt 10:13-14) and the Apostles apply the prophecy of the rebuilding of “the tabernacle of David” to the spiritual building of the Church (Acts 15:14-17), and many other such passages.

 

[Iconoclast]

4. Despite the dispensationalists’ partial defense of their so-called literalism in pointing out that “the prevailing method of interpretation among the Jews at the time of Christ was certainly this same method” (J. D. Pentecost), they overlook the problem that this led those Jews to misunderstand Christ and to reject him as their Messiah because he did not come as the king which their method of interpretation predicted.

 

[Truth7t7]

The Ninety-Five Theses Against Dispensationalism | Reformed Theology at Semper Reformanda

Preface

What follows should not be interpreted to mean that NiceneCouncil.com nor the historic Bible believing church would place every dispensationalist outside of the Christian faith. We acknowledge that most are dedicated to the foundational orthodox doctrines of Christianity. Unlike the sixteenth century dispute over the doctrine of justification, this is an in-house discussion, a debate among evangelical Christians. We recognize and treasure all born again believers who operate within a dispensational framework as brothers and sisters in Christ.

However, we must remember that Paul loved his fellow apostle Peter and esteemed him the senior and more honored of the two of them. Nevertheless, when it came to a point of theology that had profound implications for the purity and health of the Church, Paul was constrained by his love for Christ and the Truth publicly to withstand Peter to his face. (Galatians 2:11)

Therefore, because we believe that dispensationalism has at least crippled the Church in her duty of proclaiming the gospel and discipling the nations, and out of love for the truth and the desire to bring it to light, the following propositions will be discussed in a series of videos written and produced by NiceneCouncil.com under the title The Late Great Planet Church. And as iron sharpens iron we request that every Christian, congregation, and denomination discuss and debate these issues. By the grace of our great Sovereign let us engage in this debate with an open mind and an open Bible. Like the Bereans nearly two thousand years ago, let us “search the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things are so.”

95 THESES AGAINST DISPENSATIONALISM

Is that like the 1,000 theses against Preterism, smiles

pot, kettle, black

rocks, glass house

 

[Iconoclast]

Is that like the 1,000 theses against Preterism, smiles

pot, kettle, black

rocks, glass house

You would have to understand exactly what was being taught to attempt to find fault with it.
You do not seem to understand or interact with the position but rather repeat one or two verses that you repeat.
You can do what you want, but as it is you will not understand.

 

[Truth7t7]

You would have to understand exactly what was being taught to attempt to find fault with it.
You do not seem to understand or interact with the position but rather repeat one or two verses that you repeat.
You can do what you want, but as it is you will not understand.

One thing I understand is, the literal second coming of Jesus Christ, and human eyes on earth watching, is seen in the scripture below

Matthew24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[Iconoclast]

One thing I understand is, the literal second coming of Jesus Christ, and human eyes on earth watching, is seen in the scripture below

Matthew24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The literal second coming will happen on the last day.
This coming in the clouds of heaven was a coming in judgment ending the Jewish theocracy. It was the end of that age not the end of the world.

 

[Marty fox]

The literal second coming will happen on the last day.
This coming in the clouds of heaven was a coming in judgment ending the Jewish theocracy. It was the end of that age not the end of the world.

Amen

 

[Marty fox]

4. Despite the dispensationalists’ partial defense of their so-called literalism in pointing out that “the prevailing method of interpretation among the Jews at the time of Christ was certainly this same method” (J. D. Pentecost), they overlook the problem that this led those Jews to misunderstand Christ and to reject him as their Messiah because he did not come as the king which their method of interpretation predicted.

Yes and the same mistake in happening in a lot of the church today. His reigning is different from what most of the church thinks that the reigning is.

 

[GodsGrace]

19. Contrary to the dispensationalists’ historic position that the Sermon on the Mount was designed for Israel alone, to define kingdom living, and “is law, not grace” (SRB, p. 989), historic evangelical orthodoxy sees this great Sermon as applicable to the Church in the present era, applying the Beatitudes (Matt 5:2-12), calling us to be the salt of the earth (Matt 5:13), urging us to build our house on a rock (Matt 7:21-27), directing us to pray the Lord’s Prayer (Matt 6:9-13), and more.

I don't know too much about dispensationalism.
The bible is for everyone except we are not under the law of Moses,,,,613 laws.

Are you a dispensationalist?
Are you reformed?

 

[Truth7t7]

The literal second coming will happen on the last day.
This coming in the clouds of heaven was a coming in judgment ending the Jewish theocracy. It was the end of that age not the end of the world.

Preterism removes the literal second coming seen below, because it destroys the Preterist teaching that Matthew 24:21 in that the great tribulation took place in 70AD

How can you have a 70AD event, with the second coming of Jesus Christ seen that is future, smiles!

Remove the literal second coming seen through symbolic allegory, and turn it into a Judgement on Jerusalem in 70AD

"The Preterist Motto", if it dosent fit 70AD fulfillment, remove it through symbolic allegory

One thing I understand is, the literal second coming of Jesus Christ, and human eyes on earth watching, is seen in the scripture below

Matthew24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 1:7KJV
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes and the same mistake in happening in a lot of the church today. His reigning is different from what most of the church thinks that the reigning is.

hey marty how ya been?
does that mean they arent really the Church?

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes and the same mistake in happening in a lot of the church today. His reigning is different from what most of the church thinks that the reigning is.

What is the reigning?

 

[Marty fox]

hey marty how ya been?
does that mean they arent really the Church?

No not at all of course they are the church as it’s non essential doctrine.

 

[Truth7t7]

The literal second coming will happen on the last day.
This coming in the clouds of heaven was a coming in judgment ending the Jewish theocracy. It was the end of that age not the end of the world.

How do you account for the resurrection of the elect in the angels, trump, gathering, seen below?

This is the foundational theme of the resurrection throughout scripture?

The resurrection of the church/elect didnt take place in 70AD, in the Roman Destruction of Jerusalem?

Matthew24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Truth7t7]

The literal second coming will happen on the last day.
This coming in the clouds of heaven was a coming in judgment ending the Jewish theocracy. It was the end of that age not the end of the world.

One of the greatest errors and deception seen in Preterism, in denial of the literal seen below, creating a false platform for 70AD fulfillment in Matthew chapter 24

One thing I understand is, the literal second coming of Jesus Christ, and human eyes on earth watching, is seen in the scripture below

Matthew24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 1:7KJV
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[Truth7t7]

The literal second coming will happen on the last day.
This coming in the clouds of heaven was a coming in judgment ending the Jewish theocracy. It was the end of that age not the end of the world.

Iconoclast & Marty?

Do you believe in a future literal human man known as (The Little Horn) (The Man Of Sin) (The Beast)

If not what is your explanation of Daniel 7:8-11, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Revelation 13:1-5?

 

[Enoch111]

1. Contrary to the dispensationalists’ claim that their system is the result of a “plain interpretation” (Charles Ryrie) of Scripture, it is a relatively new innovation in Church history, having emerged only around 1830, and was wholly unknown to Christian scholars for the first eighteen hundred years of the Christian era.

This is a rather weak argument. Just because something was not discussed by early Christians means absolutely nothing.

We need to go to Scripture itself to determine whether Dispensationalism is true. The very fact that there is one called "the dispensation of the fulness of times" (Eph 1:10 KJV) is sufficient to indicate that there are other dispensations: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

This is a reference to the future Kingdom of God in the New Heavens and the New Earth. "The fulness of times" means that all the various ages allotted to mankind have been completed.

Dispensations generally correspond to the various covenants, and during each of those periods, God was dealing with mankind in specific ways. That is really all that is involved. But because Dispensationalism reveals that Covenant Theology is unsound, those who hold to Covenant Theology (which includes Replacement Theology) hate Dispensationalism. The Church and Israel are separate entities as we can see even in Romans 11.

Paul refers three times to a "dispensation" of the grace of God which was given to him -- 1 Cor 9:17; Eph 3:2; Col 1:25. What does this word mean? The Greek word is oikonomia and here are its meanings -- stewardship or administration:

Strong's Concordance
oikonomia: stewardship, administration
Original Word: οἰκονομία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: oikonomia
Phonetic Spelling: (oy-kon-om-ee'-ah)
Definition: stewardship, administration
Usage: management of household affairs, stewardship, administration.

So now one needs to ask:
1. Was Adam given a stewardship? Absolutely
2. Was Noah given a stewardship? Absolutely
3. Was Abraham given a stewardship? Absolutely
4. Was Moses given a stewardship? Absolutely
5. Was Jesus given a stewardship? Absolutely
6. Was Paul given a stewardship? Absolutely

In fact the stewardship of Christ extends from His time on earth, through the Church Age, through the Millennial Kingdom, and into eternity. And when His stewardship is complete, He will hand back all things to God the Father.

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (1 Cor 15:23)

As we can see, any and all attacks against Dispensationalism are just nonsense.