Divinity of Jesus Christ!

[One God NOT three]

Hello theefaith and whoever might read this,

Thank you for your reply,

The Holy apostolic council of nicea and the doctrine of the Trinity in short was an invention by Constantine to bring unity to his empire. This wasn’t sanctioned by God, neither would God give us any new law unless He has told us in the scriptures first.


The word Trinity or the teaching of three in one isn’t mentioned in the Bible. We should always look to the word of God first and not accept any other idea outside it. God never changes and we should not add or take away what is written. The Trinity is one of the main doctrines of all the main religions, but if it is so important don’t you think God would of made sure it is clearly explained in the Bible. Jesus doesn’t even mention the concept. If Jesus is God why did he pray to himself so many times, it doesn’t make sense.


Mark 12:29

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.


There are quite a few times in the scripture where Jesus distinguishes himself separate and apart from God. For instance he says in one place that the only one that is good is God Himself.

The word worship in the original means giving “respect”, there is nothing wrong with this and in fact God would approve of this as he appointed him a future king, don’t you think God’s Son deserves all the respect he is given. In itself it doesn’t prove he’s God or not, and doesn’t lesson the superiority or rank of God in any way. People bow down to kings and queens all the time and pay them homage, by doing so they are not disrespecting God and giving Him a lower rank.


The litany is a prayer that is sung in two choirs

The prayer is man made and the words aren’t taken from the Bible (it’s based on the Trinity) therefore you cannot say they are inspired by God.

I think many people are afraid to question the Trinity, for a number of reasons, and one of them maybe they don’t want to compromise any social connections to the church they may have. Which stops them looking at it with any intelligent reasoning and logic.

God’s word is not a mystery, He wants everyone to understand it and be saved regardless of the readers ability. From the professor to the poor man without a roof over his head. I think they have called the Trinity a mystery as an excuse so people don’t have to understand it when they look for it in the scriptures. They knew it wasn’t there and they would be in trouble.

We need to question everything against Scripture before believing anything.

 

[APAK]

Hello theefaith and whoever might read this,

Thank you for your reply,

The Holy apostolic council of nicea and the doctrine of the Trinity in short was an invention by Constantine to bring unity to his empire. This wasn’t sanctioned by God, neither would God give us any new law unless He has told us in the scriptures first.


The word Trinity or the teaching of three in one isn’t mentioned in the Bible. We should always look to the word of God first and not accept any other idea outside it. God never changes and we should not add or take away what is written. The Trinity is one of the main doctrines of all the main religions, but if it is so important don’t you think God would of made sure it is clearly explained in the Bible. Jesus doesn’t even mention the concept. If Jesus is God why did he pray to himself so many times, it doesn’t make sense.


Mark 12:29

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.


There are quite a few times in the scripture where Jesus distinguishes himself separate and apart from God. For instance he says in one place that the only one that is good is God Himself.

The word worship in the original means giving “respect”, there is nothing wrong with this and in fact God would approve of this as he appointed him a future king, don’t you think God’s Son deserves all the respect he is given. In itself it doesn’t prove he’s God or not, and doesn’t lesson the superiority or rank of God in any way. People bow down to kings and queens all the time and pay them homage, by doing so they are not disrespecting God and giving Him a lower rank.


The litany is a prayer that is sung in two choirs

The prayer is man made and the words aren’t taken from the Bible (it’s based on the Trinity) therefore you cannot say they are inspired by God.

I think many people are afraid to question the Trinity, for a number reasons, and one of them maybe they don’t want to compromise any social connections to the church they may have. Which stops them looking at it with any intelligent reasoning and logic.

God’s word is not a mystery, He wants everyone to understand it and be saved regardless of the readers ability. From the professor to the poor man without a roof over his head. I think they have called the Trinity a mystery as an excuse so people don’t have to understand it when they look for it in the scriptures. They knew it wasn’t there and they would be in trouble.

We need to question everything against Scripture before believing anything.

Hello and welcome OGNT: I agree with your post. It is clear and to the point.

The problem is that to convince anyone they are already fooled into a lie is much harder to do that even to fool them of a newer lie. The minds of many are closed I'm afraid.

 

[theefaith]

Matthew 8:26
And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

Only God has this power!

Matt 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Only God!

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus was divine. He was the Word of God before becoming flesh named Jesus. He was the the son of God, and son of man. He is now the Lord God Almighty who sits on the throne in heaven.

 

[theefaith]

Hello theefaith and whoever might read this,

Thank you for your reply,

The Holy apostolic council of nicea and the doctrine of the Trinity in short was an invention by Constantine to bring unity to his empire. This wasn’t sanctioned by God, neither would God give us any new law unless He has told us in the scriptures first.


The word Trinity or the teaching of three in one isn’t mentioned in the Bible. We should always look to the word of God first and not accept any other idea outside it. God never changes and we should not add or take away what is written. The Trinity is one of the main doctrines of all the main religions, but if it is so important don’t you think God would of made sure it is clearly explained in the Bible. Jesus doesn’t even mention the concept. If Jesus is God why did he pray to himself so many times, it doesn’t make sense.


Mark 12:29

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.


There are quite a few times in the scripture where Jesus distinguishes himself separate and apart from God. For instance he says in one place that the only one that is good is God Himself.

The word worship in the original means giving “respect”, there is nothing wrong with this and in fact God would approve of this as he appointed him a future king, don’t you think God’s Son deserves all the respect he is given. In itself it doesn’t prove he’s God or not, and doesn’t lesson the superiority or rank of God in any way. People bow down to kings and queens all the time and pay them homage, by doing so they are not disrespecting God and giving Him a lower rank.


The litany is a prayer that is sung in two choirs

The prayer is man made and the words aren’t taken from the Bible (it’s based on the Trinity) therefore you cannot say they are inspired by God.

I think many people are afraid to question the Trinity, for a number of reasons, and one of them maybe they don’t want to compromise any social connections to the church they may have. Which stops them looking at it with any intelligent reasoning and logic.

God’s word is not a mystery, He wants everyone to understand it and be saved regardless of the readers ability. From the professor to the poor man without a roof over his head. I think they have called the Trinity a mystery as an excuse so people don’t have to understand it when they look for it in the scriptures. They knew it wasn’t there and they would be in trouble.

We need to question everything against Scripture before believing anything.

no the rule of faith for Christians is not the “Bible alone” but the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42

 

[theefaith]

Only God can have such knowledge!

Lk 2:46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.

47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.

 

[theefaith]

The Nicene Creed

I believe in one God, (Romans 10:10; Deuteronomy 6:4)
the Father Almighty, (Matthew 6:9; Exodus 6:3)
maker of heaven and earth, (Genesis 1:1; John 1:1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1:16)
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, (Romans 10:9, Ephesians 4:5)
the only-begotten Son of God, (John 3:16; Matthew 16:16)
begotten of His Father before all worlds, (John 1:2)
God of God, Light of Light, (John 17:22; John 8:12; John 1:1)
very God of very God, (Colossians 2:9)
begotten, not made, (John 1:2)
being of one substance with the Father, (John 10:30)
by Whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:3)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2:4; Romans 3:23)
came down from heaven (John 6:41; Luke 15:20)
and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary (Luke 1:34–35)
and was made man; (John 1:14)
and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. (Mark 15:25; John 19:16–18)
He suffered and was buried. (John 19:1–3; Luke 23:53)
And the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:4; Luke 24:6)
and ascended into heaven (Acts 1:9)
and sits at the right hand of the Father. (Acts 7:55)
And He will come again with glory (Matthew 26:64)
to judge both the living and the dead, (Acts 10:42; Matthew 3:12)
Whose kingdom will have no end. (Luke 1:33; 2Peter 1:11)
And I believe in the Holy Spirit, (John 14:26; Genesis 1:2; Acts 2:38)
the Lord and giver of life, (Genesis 1:2; John 3:6)
Who proceeds from the Father and the Son, (John 15:26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, (Matthew 3:16–17; Luke 2:14)
Who spoke by the prophets. (Ezekiel 11:5; 2 Peter 1:20–21)
And I believe in one holy Christian and apostolic Church, (1 Peter 2:5; Ephesians 2:19–22)
I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins, (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
and I look for the resurrection of the dead (1 Corinthians 15:35–49; 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29–30; Matthew 10:40–42)
Amen. (Psalm 106:48)

 

[farouk]

Jesus was divine. He was the Word of God before becoming flesh named Jesus. He was the the son of God, and son of man. He is now the Lord God Almighty who sits on the throne in heaven.

@MatthewG The Lord Jesus always has been the Lord God Almighty. 1 Timothy 3.16 shows that He is God manifest in the flesh. John 3.16 shows He was God already when He was given.

 

[farouk]

God in Three Persons is strongly supported in Scripture.

 

[theefaith]

Oh come let us adore Him! Christ the Lord!

is that ok? Or idolatry?

 

[tigger 2]

@MatthewG The Lord Jesus always has been the Lord God Almighty. 1 Timothy 3.16 shows that He is God manifest in the flesh. John 3.16 shows He was God already when He was given.

...............................................................
1 Tim. 3:16 (“God was manifest in the flesh”)

As this is translated in the KJV it makes Paul say that Jesus is God “manifest in the flesh.”

Although the KJV translates 1 Tim. 3:16 with “God” as above, nearly all other translations today use a word which refers, not to God, but to Jesus: “he” (NIV; RSV; NRSV; JB; NJB; REB; NAB [‘70]; AT; GNB; CBW; and Beck’s translation), “he who” (ASV; NASB; NEB; MLB; BBE; Phillips; and Moffatt), “who,” or “which.” Even the equally old Douay version has “which was manifested in the flesh.” All the very best modern NT texts by trinitarian scholars (including Westcott and Hort, Nestle, and the text by the United Bible Societies) have the NT Greek word ὃς (“who”) here instead of θεὸς (“God”). Why do the very best trinitarian scholars support this NON-trinitarian translation of 1 Tim. 3:16?

Noted Bible scholar Dr. Frederick C. Grant writes:
“A capital example [of NT manuscript changes] is found in 1 Timothy 3:16, where ‘OS’ (OC or ὃς, ‘who’) was later taken for theta sigma with a bar above, which stood for theos (θεὸς, ‘god’). Since the new reading suited …. the orthodox doctrine of the church [trinitarian, at this later date], it got into many of the later manuscripts ….” – p. 656, Encyclopedia Americana, vol. 3, 1957 ed. (This same statement by Dr. Grant was still to be found in the latest Encyclopedia Americana that I examined – the 1990 ed., pp. 696-698, vol. 3.)

A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament by the United Bible Societies (1971 ed.) tells why the trinitarian UBS Committee chose ὃς [‘who’ or ‘he who’] as the original reading in their NT text for this verse:

“it is supported by the earliest and best uncials.” And, “Thus, no uncial (in the first hand [by the ORIGINAL writer]) earlier than the eighth or ninth century supports θεὸς [“God”]; all ancient versions presuppose ὃς [or OC, “who” - masc.] or ὅ [“which” - neut.]; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century [ca. 370 A.D.] testifies to the reading θεὸς. The reading θεὸς arose either (a) accidentally, through the misreading of OC as ΘC, or (b) deliberately....” - p. 641.

In actuality it appears to be a combination of both (with the emphasis on the latter). You see, the word ὃς was written in the most ancient manuscripts as OC (“C” being a common form for the ancient Greek letter “S” at that time). Most often at this time the word for God (θεὸς) was written in abbreviated form as ΘC. However, to show that it was an abbreviated form, a straight line, or bar, was always drawn above ΘC. So no copyist should have mistaken ὃς (or OC) for ΘC, in spite of their similarities, simply because of the prominent bar which appeared over the one and not over the other.

What may have happened was discovered by John J. Wetstein in 1714. As he was carefully examining one of the oldest NT manuscripts then known (the Alexandrine Manuscript in London) he noticed at 1 Tim. 3:16 that the word originally written there was OC but that a horizontal stroke from one of the words written on the other side of the manuscript showed through very faintly in the middle of the O. This still would not qualify as an abbreviation for θεὸς, of course, but Wetstein discovered that some person at a much later date and in a different style from the original writer had deliberately added a bar above the original word! Anyone copying from this manuscript after it had been deliberately changed would be likely to incorporate the counterfeit ΘC [with bar above it] into his new copy (especially since it reflected his own trinitarian views)!

Of course, since Wetstein’s day many more ancient NT manuscripts have been discovered and none of them before the eighth century A.D. have been found with ΘC (“God”) at this verse!

 

[farouk]

...............................................................
1 Tim. 3:16 (“God was manifest in the flesh”)

As this is translated in the KJV it makes Paul say that Jesus is God “manifest in the flesh.”

Although the KJV translates 1 Tim. 3:16 with “God” as above, nearly all other translations today use a word which refers, not to God, but to Jesus: “he” (NIV; RSV; NRSV; JB; NJB; REB; NAB [‘70]; AT; GNB; CBW; and Beck’s translation), “he who” (ASV; NASB; NEB; MLB; BBE; Phillips; and Moffatt), “who,” or “which.” Even the equally old Douay version has “which was manifested in the flesh.” All the very best modern NT texts by trinitarian scholars (including Westcott and Hort, Nestle, and the text by the United Bible Societies) have the NT Greek word ὃς (“who”) here instead of θεὸς (“God”). Why do the very best trinitarian scholars support this NON-trinitarian translation of 1 Tim. 3:16?

Noted Bible scholar Dr. Frederick C. Grant writes:
“A capital example [of NT manuscript changes] is found in 1 Timothy 3:16, where ‘OS’ (OC or ὃς, ‘who’) was later taken for theta sigma with a bar above, which stood for theos (θεὸς, ‘god’). Since the new reading suited …. the orthodox doctrine of the church [trinitarian, at this later date], it got into many of the later manuscripts ….” – p. 656, Encyclopedia Americana, vol. 3, 1957 ed. (This same statement by Dr. Grant was still to be found in the latest Encyclopedia Americana that I examined – the 1990 ed., pp. 696-698, vol. 3.)

A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament by the United Bible Societies (1971 ed.) tells why the trinitarian UBS Committee chose ὃς [‘who’ or ‘he who’] as the original reading in their NT text for this verse:

“it is supported by the earliest and best uncials.” And, “Thus, no uncial (in the first hand [by the ORIGINAL writer]) earlier than the eighth or ninth century supports θεὸς [“God”]; all ancient versions presuppose ὃς [or OC, “who” - masc.] or ὅ [“which” - neut.]; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century [ca. 370 A.D.] testifies to the reading θεὸς. The reading θεὸς arose either (a) accidentally, through the misreading of OC as ΘC, or (b) deliberately....” - p. 641.

In actuality it appears to be a combination of both (with the emphasis on the latter). You see, the word ὃς was written in the most ancient manuscripts as OC (“C” being a common form for the ancient Greek letter “S” at that time). Most often at this time the word for God (θεὸς) was written in abbreviated form as ΘC. However, to show that it was an abbreviated form, a straight line, or bar, was always drawn above ΘC. So no copyist should have mistaken ὃς (or OC) for ΘC, in spite of their similarities, simply because of the prominent bar which appeared over the one and not over the other.

What may have happened was discovered by John J. Wetstein in 1714. As he was carefully examining one of the oldest NT manuscripts then known (the Alexandrine Manuscript in London) he noticed at 1 Tim. 3:16 that the word originally written there was OC but that a horizontal stroke from one of the words written on the other side of the manuscript showed through very faintly in the middle of the O. This still would not qualify as an abbreviation for θεὸς, of course, but Wetstein discovered that some person at a much later date and in a different style from the original writer had deliberately added a bar above the original word! Anyone copying from this manuscript after it had been deliberately changed would be likely to incorporate the counterfeit ΘC [with bar above it] into his new copy (especially since it reflected his own trinitarian views)!

Of course, since Wetstein’s day many more ancient NT manuscripts have been discovered and none of them before the eighth century A.D. have been found with ΘC (“God”) at this verse!

G Vance Smith the Unitarian pushed for the reading 'he' at 1 Timothy 3.16. Sources indicated that centuries back the bar across the theta was still visible in the MS.

 

[farouk]

In any case, Biblical evidence for the Deity of Christ is overwhelming.

 

[tigger 2]

G Vance Smith the Unitarian pushed for the reading 'he' at 1 Timothy 3.16. Sources indicated that centuries back the bar across the theta was still visible in the MS.

Yes, and the fact that it has faded so quickly in comparison to the rest of the 'theta' shows that the bar was a forgery which used a less permanent ink than the original.

 

[farouk]

Yes, and the fact that it has faded so quickly in comparison to the rest of the 'theta' shows that it was a forgery which used a less permanent ink than the original.

...and I fail to regard as coincidental that it was a Unitarian who persuaded the 1881 Revision Committee to adopt the 'hos' reading.

I don't buy any "Oh he was just a neutral scholar; it was in the interests of neutrality that the Unitarian preferred the 'hos' reading"; 'Theos' also has some Patristic support.

 

[theefaith]

1 Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

Jesus is divine

 

[GRACE ambassador]

In any case, Biblical evidence for the Deity of Christ is overwhelming.

Absolutely OVERWHELMING, According To The Scriptures!:

"Complete" Case For JESUS Is Almighty God!!