Divisions

[Marymog]

My name is not Mark so that is not the only thing you have got wrong.

And I don't deal in theories as my modus operandi is to do an extensive study before I will proffer anything about anything.

If I haven't done the study, I do not comment.

Thank you Marksman.

LOL....I just shortened "Marksman". It seems you don't like that so I won't do it anymore.

I know you don't deal in theories you deal in, as you previously stated, "concrete evidence".

Question for ya' Marksman: Since you work on "extensive study" before you will "proffer anything about anything" AND if your study reveals 1,000+ say the same thing then you are getting concrete evidence....Shouldn't you be Catholic?

After all 1 billion+ people accept Catholic/Orthodox teachings as the Truth and less then 1 billion people accept Protestant teachings (with many of them accepting parts of Catholic/Orthodox teachings) as Truth...... isn't that enough "concrete evidence" for you to become Catholic?

Theoretical Mary

 

[Marymog]

"You agree with the CC on the fact that the person who is the Pope is fallible."
But, the Pope is 'infallible' when he declares something from the chair of Peter, according to your religion?
And, wouldn't it be an 'infallible' declaration when he canonizes a saint? Can that be changed?
So, your Pope is an 'infallible' person at times.
(Psalms 146) 3."Do not put your trust in princes,
Nor in a son of man, in whom there is no help."

Hi Tabletalk.

Yes, when it is declared from the chair of Peter it is infallible.

Popes don't infallibly declare that a person is a saint so your question is based on a false belief/premise.

When the Pope is declaring from the chair of Peter a teaching to be infallible (declaring it to be True) the Pope is speaking infallibly and the declaration is in conjunction with the Magisterium of The Church.

Jesus said that the gates of hell (lies, untruthful teachings, false teachings, false teachers) will not prevail against His Church. He also said, "He who hears you, hears me; he who rejects you rejects me, he who rejects me, rejects Him who sent me". Question for ya' tabletalk: Who or what Church is able to speak infallibly so that the gates of hell will not prevail? Who are you hearing? Christ's teachings or the teachings of men?

Curious Mary

 

[CoreIssue]

Hi Tabletalk.

Yes, when it is declared from the chair of Peter it is infallible.

Popes don't infallibly declare that a person is a saint so your question is based on a false belief/premise.

When the Pope is declaring from the chair of Peter a teaching to be infallible (declaring it to be True) the Pope is speaking infallibly and the declaration is in conjunction with the Magisterium of The Church.

Jesus said that the gates of hell (lies, untruthful teachings, false teachings, false teachers) will not prevail against His Church. He also said, "He who hears you, hears me; he who rejects you rejects me, he who rejects me, rejects Him who sent me". Question for ya' tabletalk: Who or what Church is able to speak infallibly so that the gates of hell will not prevail? Who are you hearing? Christ's teachings or the teachings of men?

Curious Mary

But the Catholic Church is not in the Bible.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

But the Catholic Church is not in the Bible.

Nor is your gospel.

 

[Marymog]

But the Catholic Church is not in the Bible.

Which Church is it that the Bible speaks of if not the CC?

 

[CoreIssue]

Which Church is it that the Bible speaks of if not the CC?

All of the living and dead saints. It is not a building or a hierarchical structure of a denomination.

 

[Marymog]

All of the living and dead saints. It is not a building or a hierarchical structure of a denomination.

Not true. If all the "living and dead saints" are the Church then which living saint do you choose to fulfill Matthew 18:17? Which saint is the pillar and foundation of truth?

When alive Jesus was the leader of the Church.

When he passed the Apostles were the leaders of the Church. They then passed that leadership on to faithful men. Those men the passed it on to others.

Your opinion is OPPOSITE of Scripture and 2,000 years of Church teaching.

 

[CoreIssue]

Not true. If all the "living and dead saints" are the Church then which living saint do you choose to fulfill Matthew 18:17? Which saint is the pillar and foundation of truth?

When alive Jesus was the leader of the Church.

When he passed the Apostles were the leaders of the Church. They then passed that leadership on to faithful men. Those men the passed it on to others.

Your opinion is OPPOSITE of Scripture and 2,000 years of Church teaching.

The Archstone, cornerstone and foundation of the church is Christ. All these stones are Petra.

Are you going to argue the body of Christ does not have Christ as the head?

The church was built on Petra, not Petros.

The church is built on Christ and filled with Saints.

Succession of the apostles is nowhere taught him the Bible.

In the leadership structure of the local church there is no higher office than the pastor, who was an elder. And no church hierarchy on this earth than the local.

 

[Marymog]

Succession of the apostles is nowhere taught him the Bible.

You should read scripture before you make such a false statement. Scripture teaches OPPOSITE of your opinion: 2 Timothy 2:2

You should read what the Apostolic and Church Fathers had to say about it also. Starting 2,000 years ago they said something completely OPPOSITE of your stated opinion.

You should read what your Protestant friend has to say about it also: Church historian J. N. D. Kelly, a Protestant, writes, “[W]here in practice was [the] apostolic testimony or tradition to be found? . . . The most obvious answer was that the apostles had committed it orally to the Church, where it had been handed down from generation to generation. . . . Unlike the alleged secret tradition of the Gnostics, it was entirely public and open, having been entrusted by the apostles to their successors, and by these in turn to those who followed them, and was visible in the Church for all who cared to look for it” (Early Christian Doctrines, 37).

I thought you knew scripture and your own Christian history....

 

[CoreIssue]

You should read scripture before you make such a false statement. Scripture teaches OPPOSITE of your opinion: 2 Timothy 2:2

You should read what the Apostolic and Church Fathers had to say about it also. Starting 2,000 years ago they said something completely OPPOSITE of your stated opinion.

You should read what your Protestant friend has to say about it also: Church historian J. N. D. Kelly, a Protestant, writes, “[W]here in practice was [the] apostolic testimony or tradition to be found? . . . The most obvious answer was that the apostles had committed it orally to the Church, where it had been handed down from generation to generation. . . . Unlike the alleged secret tradition of the Gnostics, it was entirely public and open, having been entrusted by the apostles to their successors, and by these in turn to those who followed them, and was visible in the Church for all who cared to look for it” (Early Christian Doctrines, 37).

I thought you knew scripture and your own Christian history....

Nothing in the Bible supports you. History does not support you outside of Catholic writings.

Apostolic and Church Fathers According to who? The Catholic Church.

Mormonism also has an apostolatic Lines of succession. Cults have lines of succession. Pagan's have lines of succession.

I am not Protestant or Catholic. I am a biblical Christian.

I'm not a Protestant.

J. N. D. Kelly a Catholic friendly Anglican, Apostate denomination, priest.

Peter is never recognized as the leader of the apostles or church.

You want to say Catholicism, not only allowed priests own Bible, was open?

Most assuredly I studied history.

 

[Marymog]

Nothing in the Bible supports you. History does not support you outside of Catholic writings.

Apostolic and Church Fathers According to who? The Catholic Church.

Mormonism also has an apostolatic Lines of succession. Cults have lines of succession. Pagan's have lines of succession.

I am not Protestant or Catholic. I am a biblical Christian.

I'm not a Protestant.

J. N. D. Kelly a Catholic friendly Anglican, Apostate denomination, priest.

Peter is never recognized as the leader of the apostles or church.

You want to say Catholicism, not only allowed priests own Bible, was open?

Most assuredly I studied history.

You are soooooo articulate in the defense of your opinion. You used Scripture and history and logic to back up your opinion I will now follow you and believe everything you believe.

Please tell me......What should I believe?

Mary

 

[BreadOfLife]

So let's have them then.

I've posted them REPEATEDLY.
The last time was in post #275.

They say that Jesus is GOD and that Mary is His Mother.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Fact is you could not provide ANY Scripture to support your claims.

Wrong.
The fact is that YOU just wouldn't accept it.

 

[CoreIssue]

I've posted them REPEATEDLY.
The last time was in post #275.

They say that Jesus is GOD and that Mary is His Mother.

Jesus is both God and man. His flesh is man and his spirit God.

Mary is the mother of his foolish. The father is the father of his flesh. His spirit has no father or mother, it is eternal and equal to the father and Holy Spirit.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Nothing in the Bible supports you. History does not support you outside of Catholic writings.
Apostolic and Church Fathers According to who? The Catholic Church.
Mormonism also has an apostolatic Lines of succession. Cults have lines of succession. Pagan's have lines of succession.
I am not Protestant or Catholic. I am a biblical Christian.
I'm not a Protestant.
J. N. D. Kelly a Catholic friendly Anglican, Apostate denomination, priest.
Peter is never recognized as the leader of the apostles or church.
You want to say Catholicism, not only allowed priests own Bible, was open?
Most assuredly I studied history.

Funny how whenever a Protestant scholar substantiates Catholic history - he is "apostate" or "unreliable".
Here is an excerpt from What Think Ye of Rome (Ten Reasons Why Catholicism Is Not a Cult) by Protestant historian Kenneth Samples, writing for the Christian Research Journal:

"Catholicism, on the other hand, is the largest body within Christendom, having almost a two‐thousand‐year history (it has historical continuity with apostolic, first century Christianity), and is the ecclesiastical tree from which Protestantism originally splintered."

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus is both God and man. His flesh is man and his spirit God.

Mary is the mother of his foolish. The father is the father of his flesh. His spirit has no father or mother, it is eternal and equal to the father and Holy Spirit.

WRONG.

His 2 natures are INDIVISIBLE.
YOU are espousing the ancient Nestorian Heresy which sought to divide Christ's 2 natures.

Nice job . . .

 

[CoreIssue]

Funny how whenever a Protestant scholar substantiates Catholic history - he is "apostate" or "unreliable".
Here is an excerpt from What Think Ye of Rome (Ten Reasons Why Catholicism Is Not a Cult) by Protestant historian Kenneth Samples, writing for the Christian Research Journal:

"Catholicism, on the other hand, is the largest body within Christendom, having almost a two‐thousand‐year history (it has historical continuity with apostolic, first century Christianity), and is the ecclesiastical tree from which Protestantism originally splintered."

In size matters Islam is legit.

Kenneth Samples, A Calvinist.

 

[CoreIssue]

WRONG.

His 2 natures are INDIVISIBLE.
YOU are espousing the ancient Nestorian Heresy which sought to divide Christ's 2 natures.

Nice job . . .

So you believe the flesh of Christ is God and eternal.

The Nestorian Heresy
Was that Christ was two distinct people, not natures.

You don't even know what the Catholic Church teaches.

Jesus Christ, the Person
2. Jesus Christ is True God and True Man
The Church teaches that Jesus Christ is one person having two natures.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So you believe the flesh of Christ is God and eternal.

The Nestorian Heresy
Was that Christ was two distinct people, not natures.

You don't even know what the Catholic Church teaches.

Jesus Christ, the Person
2. Jesus Christ is True God and True Man
The Church teaches that Jesus Christ is one person having two natures.

The Nestorian Heresy held that Christ was HUMAN and that God merely dwelt IN His him as in a temple.
The entire purpose of the Council of Ephesus in 431 was to address this heresy.

TWO important doctrines were defined:
The "Hypostactic Union": Christ is both Human and Divine and these 2 natures are INDIVISIBLE
"Theotokos": Because of this, Mary bore GOD in her womb

YOU'RE the one who doesn't understand what was taught . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

In size matters Islam is legit.
Kenneth Samples, A Calvinist.

???
Not sure what you're trying to say here . . .