I believe examining ourselves is a great thing to do.
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?
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I believe examining ourselves is a great thing to do.
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?
Johann
Well-Known Member
Dear friend...perfect can mean mature..complete..
ὃν ἡμεῖς καταγγέλλομεν, νουθετοῦντες πάντα ἄνθρωπον καὶ διδάσκοντες πάντα ἄνθρωπον ἐν πάσῃ σοφίᾳ, ἵνα παραστήσωμεν πάντα ἄνθρωπον τέλειον
Adj-AMS (BSB Morphology)
Adjective - Accusative Masculine Singular
Lemma: τέλειος
Word: perfect
Greek: τέλειον
Transliteration: teleion
G5046 (Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments)
G5046 τέλειος teleios (te'-lei-os) adj.
complete.
Colossians 1:28
Him we proclaim, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone mature in Christ.
Ephesians 5:27
so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
Matthew 5:48
You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Ephesians 4:11-13
And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.
2 Timothy 2:24-25
And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,
1 Corinthians 2:6
Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away.
Colossians 1:22
he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,
τέλειος
Etym. τέλος
I. having reached its end, finished, complete, Il., etc.: of victims, perfect, without spot or blemish, Il.; τὰ τέλεα τῶν προβάτων Hdt.; of sacrifices, ἱερὰ τέλεια of full tale or number, or performed with all rites, Thuc.; so, αἰετὸς τελειότατος πετεηνῶν is prob. the surest bird of augury, Il.
2. of animals, fullgrown, Xen., etc.
3. of persons, absolute, complete, accomplished, perfect in his or its kind, Plat., etc.: —so of things, φάρμακον τελεώτατον Plat.; τ. ἀρετή, φιλία, etc., Arist.
4. of prayers, vows, etc., fulfilled, accomplished, Pind., Aesch.; ὄψις οὐ τελέη a vision which imported nothing, Hdt.; τ. ψῆφος a fixed resolve, Soph.
5. in Arithm., those numbers are τέλειοι, which are equal to the sum of their divisors, as 6 = 3 + 2 + 1, Plat.
II. of the gods, fulfilling prayer, Ζεὺς τ. Zeus the fulfiller, Pind., Aesch.; of Hera ζυγία, Lat. Juno pronuba, the presiding goddess of marriage, Pind., Aesch., etc.:—so, τέλειος ἀνήρ, = Lat. paterfamilias, the lord of the house, Aesch.
III. = τελευταῖος, last, Soph.
IV. τέλειον (not τέλεον), τό, a royal banquet, as a transl. of the Pers. tycta, Hdt.
V. adv. τελέως, at last, Aesch., Plat., etc.
2. perfectly, absolutely, thoroughly, Hdt.
3. the neut. τέλεον is also used as adv., Luc.
VI. comp. and Sup.: Hom. uses τελεώτερος, -εώτατος or τελειότερος, -ειότατος, as his metre requires: in attic τελεώτερος, -ώτατος prevail. Liddell/Robert.
Key word "In Christ" "Imputation" "Sealed with the Holy Spirit"
"Clothed with the righteousness of Christ/robes of salvation"
Blessings
J.
That is true, being a Christians isn’t about looking at other people’s sins and comparing ourselves to them, something I use to do.
As I use to be highly judgmental of others to get the attention off my own faults which, we know Paul had his own faults he prayed three times to be taken away by the Lord but the Lord told his that his grace is sufficient.
It’s ultimately about having love, and Agape love described not only in what you shared is also found in 1 Corinthians 13.
Apostle Paul of Jesus Christ said it here.
1 Corinthians 13 2 If I have the gift of prophecyand can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge,and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
2 Corinthians 12:8-10
Good News Translation
8 Three times I prayed to the Lord about this and asked him to take it away. 9 But his answer was: “My grace is all you need, for my power is greatest when you are weak.” I am most happy, then, to be proud of my weaknesses, in order to feel the protection of Christ's power over me. 10 I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and difficulties for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
I have weaknesses and temptations sometimes to use drugs, or use porn, or … be mean to others if I’m sick and irritated, it just depends ultimately on my mood and the temptation that comes in to my mind of doing something that is not beneficial.
its Christ Jesus the one I look towards that helps me not to go with my fleshly proclivities though I do miss the mark sometimes I know I’m not perfect in the fleshly sense but know people can be mature in their faith.
Jesus in me by the spirit never misses the mark.
Galatians 5:
6 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whateveryou want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Romans 8
10 And Christ lives within you, so even though your body will die because of sin, the Spirit gives you life because you have been made right with God.
11 The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you.
12 Therefore, dear brothers and sisters, you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do.
13 For if you live by its dictates, you will die. But if through the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live.
14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.
15 So you have not received a spirit that makes you fearful slaves. Instead, you received God’s Spirit when he adopted you as his own children. Now we call him, “Abba, Father.”
16 For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children.
17 And since we are his children, we are his heirs. In fact, together with Christ we are heirs of God’s glory. But if we are to share his glory, we must also share his suffering.
18 Yet what we suffer now is nothing compared to the glory he will reveal to us later.
19 For all creation is waiting eagerly for that future day when God will reveal who his children really are.
20 Against its will, all creation was subjected to God’s curse. But with eager hope,
Find your rest in Jesus!
its Christ Jesus the one I look towards that helps me not to go with my fleshly proclivities though I do miss the mark sometimes I know I’m not perfect in the fleshly sense but know people can be mature in their faith.
Jesus in me by the spirit never misses the mark.
Galatians 5:
6 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whateveryou want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Romans 8
10 And Christ lives within you, so even though your body will die because of sin, the Spirit gives you life because you have been made right with God.
11 The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you.
12 Therefore, dear brothers and sisters, you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do.
13 For if you live by its dictates, you will die. But if through the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live.
14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.
15 So you have not received a spirit that makes you fearful slaves. Instead, you received God’s Spirit when he adopted you as his own children. Now we call him, “Abba, Father.”
16 For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children.
17 And since we are his children, we are his heirs. In fact, together with Christ we are heirs of God’s glory. But if we are to share his glory, we must also share his suffering.
18 Yet what we suffer now is nothing compared to the glory he will reveal to us later.
19 For all creation is waiting eagerly for that future day when God will reveal who his children really are.
20 Against its will, all creation was subjected to God’s curse. But with eager hope,
Find your rest in Jesus!
That is right Johann, good job brother. Perfect can simply mean being mature in our faith in the Gospel of Christ which the power of God unto Salvation.
Yes and the scriptures tell us to confess our faults to one another that prayer can be offered on behalf.
We ARE also told to bear one another's burdens.
Some make it hard to confess and share for others in need fear it will bring judgement and condemnation on themselves,which sadly to say we see this is how some act.
Jesus went among those who needed help not the righteous nor self righteous.
May we humbly seek him in the Spirit to reach this point.
Johann
Well-Known Member
What is the Perfect Tense?
what is Paul saying here?
13 until - - we all reach - - unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son - of God, - - as we mature to the full measure of the stature - of Christ.
12 Not that - I have already
obtained all this, or - have already been made perfect, but I press on - - to take hold of that for which - - Christ Jesus - took hold of me. 13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize of - God’s heavenly calling in Christ Jesus. 15 - All of us who are mature - should embrace this point of view. And if you think differently about some issue, - God will reveal this to you as well. 16 Nevertheless, we must live up - - to what we have already attained.
What is sanctification?
Blessings
J.
I really don't believe Christians inevitably sin every day.
Sin is not this accidental state we slip into. It's a choice that goes against what we know is wrong.
The Bible says whatever does not come from faith is sin. We know in our hearts what is right and what is wrong. We know when we are about to make a choice.
Thank God, Jesus made the sacrifice necessary to justify us before God. We all have sinned. But do we really inevitably sin as Christians?
But I believe its a matter of "if" we sin, not "when". Are we committed to loving the Lord or are we committed to sinning from time to time?
I believe its possible to go through your day and not sin. For me, the mornings are always easy. The afternoon comes and the test begins. Do I look at porn? Am I going to obey the Lord?
Lately Im like nah, I love the Lord. I don't have to inevitably end up looking at it because Jesus breaks the chains that enslave me to sin.
If your heart does not condemn you and you are walking in God's ways, sin gets pushed out. His Spirit enables us to not only not sin but live out love which goes beyond what is required.
Sin is not this accidental state we slip into. It's a choice that goes against what we know is wrong.
The Bible says whatever does not come from faith is sin. We know in our hearts what is right and what is wrong. We know when we are about to make a choice.
Thank God, Jesus made the sacrifice necessary to justify us before God. We all have sinned. But do we really inevitably sin as Christians?
But I believe its a matter of "if" we sin, not "when". Are we committed to loving the Lord or are we committed to sinning from time to time?
I believe its possible to go through your day and not sin. For me, the mornings are always easy. The afternoon comes and the test begins. Do I look at porn? Am I going to obey the Lord?
Lately Im like nah, I love the Lord. I don't have to inevitably end up looking at it because Jesus breaks the chains that enslave me to sin.
If your heart does not condemn you and you are walking in God's ways, sin gets pushed out. His Spirit enables us to not only not sin but live out love which goes beyond what is required.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
@Johann
So you don’t explain why you walk in the flesh when the Bible tells you not to do so, and you end up going to the Greek to change the scriptures to favor your doctrine.
Do me a favor and be consistent: don’t use the word “perfect” anymore.
Replace it every time with mature or complete and see how less effective your communication becomes.
Next time something fits your preference exactly, say something like, “This is complete!”. Saying “this is perfect” is too simple a way to convey your pleasure.
So you don’t explain why you walk in the flesh when the Bible tells you not to do so, and you end up going to the Greek to change the scriptures to favor your doctrine.
Do me a favor and be consistent: don’t use the word “perfect” anymore.
Replace it every time with mature or complete and see how less effective your communication becomes.
Next time something fits your preference exactly, say something like, “This is complete!”. Saying “this is perfect” is too simple a way to convey your pleasure.
Great point here brother thank you for sharing them. The reason I made this thread ultimately is for others to understand that we need to rely on the Lord Jesus Christ and pray to our Father in heaven daily, dying to ourselves and it’s tough to do! The Christian life isn’t easy, otherwise the road would have been broad.
Thank you for sharing Wynona! Very helpful things you said here. Thank God for Jesus who helps us in our infirmities, and we have God to have and ask for help by the Holy Spirit.
Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot be touched with the feelings of our infirmities, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin
Jesus said in Luke 11:13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”
Johann
Well-Known Member
@Michiah-Imla Not here to argue with you.
Shalom to you and family.
Just a pilgrim, if you have reached absolute perfection in this life, sinlessness, well done!
I'll catch up with you eventually.
J.
And also perfect, as God is perfect: Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (Mt 5:48) Thayer's Greek Lexicon says of this use in Matthew 5:48
"in an absolute sense, of God: Matthew 5:48".
Does God want His children to be absolutely perfect? Absolutely.
Will Christ eventually perfect us at the Resurrection/Rapture? Absolutely
Are we then to strive for moral and spiritual perfection in this life? Absolutely
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Johann
Well-Known Member
Thank you Matthew, in this race we are all urging each other onward to the goal.
Shalom Aleichem to you and family
J.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
What does it mean to see " whether you are in the faith " ?
What is the faith ?
What determines if one is in our outside of the faith ?
What is the criteria ?
Is it subjective or objective ?
Psalm 106:3
3 Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.
3 Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.
Johann, that is the thing living our life by faith in the Gospel of Christ, being in the resurrection of Christ having new life which ultimately leads to loving God and loving others. God is with us, and we all walk this faith alone in this walk though we find encouragement from others, though we will also experience others who may simply desire to remain where they are in their own measure of faith that is given by God.
Everyone here as far as I am concerned, believe in the life, death, burial, and resurrection. Each one in their own place of understanding of the Bible, be it they read the Bible or have been taught by others through time and there are all kinds of ideas of different 'doctrine' or teachings.
The Holy Spirit is the ultimate teacher: in as it is personally given by God to those who are of faith in which they are given the Holy Spirit that is poured into their hearts.
We can be stern with others, share with them scriptures, but ultimately on something like this, people have to decide what they are gonna do about their faith and what the scripture states. Love is going to be the choice we make in the face of opposition, to just allow people to be as they are and allow God to move them by the Holy Spirit.
Love to you, and all these brothers and sisters out here,
God bless you and your family as well, and all here!
May all be encouraged to seek for the truth, examine anything and everything or anything presented to you and test it all by the scriptures.
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Hello again Christophany,
Faith is believing in the things that are not seen, and the things which are hoped for. ( I got it backwards)
It would be like; Jesus Christ can help you hold back your anger and wrath if you abide in Christ by faith. It is believing in something one can not see, but the product of it is hoped for in place it would be subjective to the believer. Yet objective in the premise of itself.
Hebrews 11:1
What are your thoughts on it?
