Do Demon's Dwell Within Christians?

[Rex]

To Axehead

Let me ask you a question: When Satan tempted Jesus Christ in the wilderness, what "Right" would Satan have had if Jesus Christ obeyed him (sinned)?Let me ask you a question: When Satan tempted Jesus Christ in the wilderness, what "Right" would Satan have had if Jesus Christ obeyed him (sinned)?

Sure he would have sinned fallen and He would have never been able tointervene for our sin.
Have you ever sinned?

What rights did Satan receive when Adam (who was pure and innocent) sinned?

The complete atonement for sin had not come in the form of Jesus, there was only the blood of lambs and bulls to cover sin.
The covering of Adam and Eve with skins, was the shedding of blood to cover in an imperfect way,-->> pointing to the blood and sacrifice of Christ.

Comparing Jesus and Adam and Eve with our situation is a straw-man like comparing apples and oranges.
A perfected man and woman fallen, a perfect man in Jesus over coming to save Adam and Eve.
We were born into A&E fallen condition, and we are not sinless as Jesus was.

The Key in vs 8 above is "in Christ Jesus". People have taken the posture that once someone has "prayed a prayer" they are positionally in Christ and nothing can ever change that and that they are somehow protected from the "doors" that sin opens in their lives to the enemy.

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

The point of the verse you mentioned is that we are no longer condemned, the life threw the spirit has over come the law of sin and death.
How else do you suppose you, or anyone else is going to accepted? By your works, by your perfect life?
that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Did I say nothing could change that? No, but the implication from Angelina is sin "even in a spirit filled christian" leads to possession and your trying to find proof as well. It's pretty clear Paul is not speaking of being made perfect or being sinless as well. If you have a problem with the term in Christ then I suppose you can take it up with translators or Paul.

If we are not turning to the Lord, then who are we turning to? We either welcome Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit into our lives or we welcome the unholy spirit, counterfeit Jesus into our lives.

Paul is talking to the Church in the verse below and he did not fail to mention to them that they could receive another spirit.

2Co_11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

I agree and my point is that saying If your sins your not covered by Jesus sacrifice on the cross, and thats the implication from Angelina, about spirit filled believers. If you sin Satan---> has a right to you, her quote below

It is about authority and Satan is a legalist. :huh: he has a legal right to enter a believer's soul if they are being disobedient to God.

Paul also said just before the verse you quoted, that he was fearful you be lead way, deceived.

3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity[a] that is in Christ.

That simplicity is believing in Jesus unto salvation, against which there is no law.
To say I'm a born again believer in Jesus, and I sin---> that at this point Satan has a right to me is denying the simplicity of Christ.

It is about authority and Satan is a legalist. :huh: he has a legal right to enter a believer's soul if they are being disobedient to God.

That theology presumes there is no covering. This covering of our sins threw Jesus is grace, we walk in grace as we are being made in the image of Jesus. As we mature our walk becomes more and more holy, perfect in the likeness of Christ,

Angelina tried to use this angle to justify spiritual possession in Christians. And yes people fall away, they don't mature they follow after un biblical teachings. And many in my opinion, that have had demons cast out of them have never been born of the spirit in the first place.
But Satans rights to those that have received the covering of Christ for sins is not biblical in fact it denys salvation threw Christ.

Here are the warning about those that have received the spirit and turned away, I don't deny them.

Hebrews 6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away,[b] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

2 Peter 20
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped[d] from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,”[e] and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness,

Like Christians being demon possessed, and if you sin Satan has a right to you "even If you be born of the spirit in Christ"

Now you can defend such statements AH but scriptural evidence is not on your side.
I can see how defending the premise of possession has effected some peoples simplicity in salvation. Maybe you don't
But If Satan has a right to us in our sin, then the message of salvation threw Christ is of no value.


Now I consider Angelina a friend, and a friend doesn't pat me on the back and agree with me If they believe I'm in error.
I don't play that game, I believe this whole thread topic is un-scriptural and I'm not going to stand by and say yes to it when I disagree.
Proverbs 27:6

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Rex,

On p2 of this thread, you said:

You and AH are right the OT temple is a metaphor,

I thought you had understood, therefore, that when Jesus entered the Temple, while it was still full of money-changers and livestock, you had also understood that when the Holy Spirit enters a person, they are still full of the spiritual equivalent of 'money-changers and livestock'.

You then followed your first comment with:

I'm surprised by the numbers of people that believe this rubbish.

At the time, I didn't question it, but it now seems either you had not meant your first statement, or, you had not understood what your first statement meant in the context of the topic under discussion. (Would you care to clarify this point?)

If a person is not a 'true believer' until they have received the Holy Spirit, then the Holy Spirit must be free to enter upon the cofession of their faith in Christ Romans 10:9, 10 whether or not they have unclean spirits still to be dealt with. Despite saying you recognise the metaphor, you are putting up stout resistance to its meaning in the context of receiving Jesus Christ by faith.

The New Covenant promise is for a new heart and a new spirit. According to Angelina's Temple analogy, and the use of the Greek word for 'Holy of holies' in the NT, the heart is the Holy of holies in the 'temple' of the person's whole being. The 'new spirit' is the Holy Spirit which resides in the new heart. The Lord, by entering, has endorsed the new believer's faith in Him. I hope you see it's not another believer's place to dispute with Him.

To me, this is the point at which your insistence that the person cannot be a Christian if they still have another spirit in them, begins to become unstuck. Your stance is immediately and totally theoretical, especially if the person's life begins to change under God's influence.

Your assertion that only unsaved people need to have demons cast out, is partly true. If they are unsaved, they will have no power (of the Holy Spirit) to resist. Part of the issue at the heart of this discussion, which has not received a great deal of scrutiny, is the role of Christ on the cross in dealing with the sin of the world - not only our individual sins, but 'the sin' which entered the world through Adam. Romans 5:12.

When you refer to a 'true believer', there should also be a changed attitude to sin already making a difference to the new believer's behaviour, as well as the promptings of the Holy Spirit which has been sent to lead them. Clearly, an unsaved person has had no change of relationship with sin.

Therefore, how is a person to be freed from other spirits without the indwelling Holy Spirit?

And, how is the person going to remain free of other spirits without the indwelling Holy Spirit?

Conversely, a person who has understood their need for Jesus Christ the Saviour, who has repented from sin and believed in Him and received the Holy Spirit, is now in a strong position to take back their life in every area over which the devil and sin previously had control.

If you can see that, then it's not those of us with experience of seeing people set free from demons after they became a Christian, who has to explain anything.

It's over to you to explain why the disciples are not recorded casting demons out of people before they pray for the Holy Spirit to enter the new believers.

Both scenarios cannot be true. Either, demons leave in response to the entrance of Jesus Christ, or, they need to be cast out before Jesus Christ can enter.









You went on to say:

There is nothing wrong at all about making the distinction. In fact it opens an opportunity to identify the attributes of the new covenant, that's something as well I think many "Christians" don't comprehend.

One of the main differences between the two covenants is that the Old Covenant is external in its application, although faith is a matter of the heart, while the New Covenant is internal in its application, and faith is still a matter of the heart. The blood of animals could never take away sin, but the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin on the inside. This is where demons come unstuck, if they have been inhabiting a person who comes to Christ, as long as the new believer begins to live free from the sins which used to characterise his/her life. That changed relationship with sin is a key to being freed from evil or unclean spirits, if they were there. The other key is to have received the Holy Spirit, who brings Christ to dwell in their heart by faith.

With the help of the Holy Spirit, the flesh can be mortified Romans 8:13, Colossians 3:5. As Axehead has pointed out, there is a difference between 'flesh' and 'another spirit'. The spirits dwell in the land. The flesh is the land. This picture is clear in Exodus and Deuteronomy, when God is commanding the children of Israel to worship Him, and to drive out the 'nations' into which He will bring them in contact. Exodus 23:23. He states: 'I will cut them off.' But notice, He has no plan to cut them off until the children of Israel address the matter of driving them out.

This is one aspect of our authority in the name of Jesus Christ. If we continue with the metaphor in the OT, we can see Jesus doing the same thing in the NT. The money-changers and livestock were still in the Temple, even while He was 'in the land', and they did not scarper until He addressed their unwanted presence. One prophecy the disciples recognised was 'The zeal of thine house has eaten me up'. Is there a godly zeal in the Christian to hound the last unwanted spirit out of His 'house'? Or are too may Christians like the children of Israel of old, tempted to get settled and worship local gods, rather than to carry on their battles and possess the land? Are we too like Israel, who got drawn away into idolatry, instead of keeping their eyes on God their Saviour, and hounding the last Canaanite out of the territory?

And not just Canaanites. There is another point here, which is that the names of the nations in the land, and their meanings, had something to do with the territorial spirits which they worshipped. While that is a point for further discussion, it brings up the importance of the new Christian gaining and understanding of his/her enemies, so as to be able to 'possess the land' which Christ has bought back for them. But, He may not drive out a spirit before the believer is ready to occupy. Is that anybody else's business? Mostly, it isn't, unless a believer seeks help from the body.



What Angelina has said about a door being opened to other spirits again - through sin - has its picture in the children of Israel in the wilderness, longing for Egypt again, with its tasty food and idolatry. The Christian who is tempted to compromise with sin (flesh), is bound to reap corruption. Galatians 6:7, 8, 9. This is where the heartset of the believer is tried and tested, and God knows how to burn out the impurities. Malachi 3:2

I don't like to be too hard on Christians who are confused about whether victory over sin is expected, because I know victory over sin is not widely preached. But, it is the NT standard. No-one can read Romans 6 and remain in doubt. Romans 6:16, 23

I don't see how anyone who came to the Lord not knowing they were supposed to repent, can possibly be expected to have victory over sin, or the flesh, or other spirits. You might prefer to say they are not saved. Simple. But the seed of God's word and truth, has begun to grow in them. That state of being one of God's pregnancies, is common. What is less common, is a nice clean 'new birth' at the end of it, where they are both filled with the Spirit and baptised in the Spirit. If a believer is to get free of other spirits without a 'casting out' procedure, then the Holy Spirit must enter, or he/she doesn't stand a chance. You say so, yourself. Even those who receive the Holy Spirit may need help, depending on what they were doing with evil spirits before their conversion, how much ground they gave, and how much they knew what they were doing when they gave it.

If the children of Israel are a metaphor, too, (for the Church, the spiritual Israel), then we need to note Jesus' attitude to one of them:


Luke 13:10 And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath. 11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself. 12 And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity. 13 And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.

14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day. 15 The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering? 16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day? 17 And when he had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him.


Here we have a woman who was doing all the right things. She was in the synagogue on the sabbath day, just like many Christians are in church on Sunday. She was not consciously looking for Jesus, but He spotted her, and spoke the word, and touched her, and she was healed. There are many analogies in this incident, and one of them is not that Jesus disputed her birthright because she needed deliverance.

Bearing in mind Galatians 5:16, 19 - 21, here is another passage written to Christians:

1 Thessalonians 4:1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. 2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: 4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; 5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: 6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. 7 For God hath not called us to uncleanness, but to holiness. 8 He therefore that despises, despises not man, but God, who has also given to us his holy Spirit.


Why does Paul even need to mention these sins to Christians, unless it's important for them to stop committing them? In no way does Paul imply that now we are 'saved', 'sins' are automatically 'under the blood' (which is not a NT concept or phrase).

Only the sins we bring to the cross, are cleansed away, whether we came to the Lord yesterday, or fifty years ago.

He overlooks none of them.

 

[Rex]

Hi Rex,

On p2 of this thread, you said:

You and AH are right the OT temple is a metaphor, I'm surprised by the numbers of people that believe this rubbish.

I thought you had understood, therefore, that when Jesus entered the Temple, while it was still full of money-changers and livestock, you had also understood that when the Holy Spirit enters a person, they are still full of the spiritual equivalent of 'money-changers and livestock'.

You then followed your first comment with:

And the post right before it was this where I explained it. then I move to another part of this topic.
see my position below. All the OT was a shadow of the reality to come. We now have the fulness of salvation, What part do you and AH not understand.

The sacrificial atonement for sin has stopped, now we receive Jesus and If it is all good and well we receive the HS "in a clean temple" you need to be found right in Gods eyes to receive the HS" its not some dam, desire or a special prayer its having the proper understanding and relationship then you receive the HS. Something not present in the OT to those that were covered by the blood of sheep and goats. We now are free from the condemnation of the law that the OT Israel walked under. By grace threw faith, we are covered in our weakness, as we are being made whole.

And there lays the problem with comparing the OT a shadow of the things to come ------>> which is Christ
With the New Covenant

Hebrewa10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

As you can see by comparing the temple and Israel to the new mans birth threw Christ and sealed with the Holy Spirit has allowed Mr Justin to reintroduce his heresy that born of the Spirit Christians can be possessed. In such there is no evidence, or warnings about such a thing after Pentecost, the pouring out of the Spirit. http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17051-do-demons-dwell-within-christians/#entry176787

We now have the perfect sacrifice. It a shadow a metaphor a likeness not the reality.


Your post and comments are so long I'll be a while responding to it If I do.
IN THE MEAN TIME show me where people are delivered, or it is taught that this heresy about demon possession in Christians is taught or spoken about.

 

[marksman]

Very often, we do not know what the word of God means until we act on it. Then we can say as Peter said on the day of Pentecost "This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel..." As an aside someone once said "If this isn't that, I will keep this until I get that."

A good ministerial friend of mine taught us that God guides a moving vessel, not one that is anchored in port. I have found over the years that God often shows you step one and until you embark upon step one he will not show you step two or three or four.

A case in question was the ministry in regards to rejection. This came about because a minister in our church realised that the ministry that he was doing, very effectively I might add, was out of rejection. It was more about him, not about God. Once he was delivered from it, he took it on the road with amazing results.

The following Easter, the church held its first five day residential conference. We had seven main ministries and each one had an assistant. I was allocated to the minister who introduced the idea of deliverance from a spirit of rejection. In one of his morning workshops he spoke about this subject.

After he spoke he invited people to come forward to be prayed for to be delivered from this spirit. He started at one end of the line and I started at the other. I stood in front of the first person and realised I had no idea what to pray (this was the first time I had done this).

Immediately the hymn "he breaks the power of cancelled sin and sets the prisoner free" came into my mind and I knew that is what I had to pray. I laid my hand gently on the first persons forehead and said those words and they fell to the ground.

I moved to the next person and did the same with the same result. The next person fell to the ground before I had finished the prayer as did the next person.

I put my hand on the forehead of the next person and before I had started praying, they fell to the ground. The remaining people fell to the ground before my hand touched their forehead or I had said a word.

It was obvious that the power of God was there to heal and deliver and satan didn't stand a chance. In other words, it was God's perfect timing for these people. In my ignorance and willingness to weigh anchor, God was able to bring heaven down to those people.

The scriptures about being set free came alive that day and I knew what they meant. Prior to that, my explanation would have been a bit uncertain as it was only theoretical, not backed up by experience.

There are times when we don't need experience to prove scripture as in "Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the father but by me." We just know that it is right.

There are others that we think we have a grasp of, but when push comes to shove, we don't really know. That is until is it backed up by practical experience. If we haven't the experience to teach us, I think it is best to say "I think but I can't prove it...yet." We need to discover that the proof of the pudding is in the eating and if eating proves you right, problem solved.

 

[Rex]

Very often, we do not know what the word of God means until we act on it. Then we can say as Peter said on the day of Pentecost "This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel..." As an aside someone once said "If this isn't that, I will keep this until I get that."

A good ministerial friend of mine taught us that God guides a moving vessel, not one that is anchored in port. I have found over the years that God often shows you step one and until you embark upon step one he will not show you step two or three or four.

A case in question was the ministry in regards to rejection. This came about because a minister in our church realised that the ministry that he was doing, very effectively I might add, was out of rejection. It was more about him, not about God. Once he was delivered from it, he took it on the road with amazing results.

The following Easter, the church held its first five day residential conference. We had seven main ministries and each one had an assistant. I was allocated to the minister who introduced the idea of deliverance from a spirit of rejection. In one of his morning workshops he spoke about this subject.

After he spoke he invited people to come forward to be prayed for to be delivered from this spirit. He started at one end of the line and I started at the other. I stood in front of the first person and realised I had no idea what to pray (this was the first time I had done this).

Immediately the hymn "he breaks the power of cancelled sin and sets the prisoner free" came into my mind and I knew that is what I had to pray. I laid my hand gently on the first persons forehead and said those words and they fell to the ground.

I moved to the next person and did the same with the same result. The next person fell to the ground before I had finished the prayer as did the next person.

I put my hand on the forehead of the next person and before I had started praying, they fell to the ground. The remaining people fell to the ground before my hand touched their forehead or I had said a word.

It was obvious that the power of God was there to heal and deliver and satan didn't stand a chance. In other words, it was God's perfect timing for these people. In my ignorance and willingness to weigh anchor, God was able to bring heaven down to those people.

The scriptures about being set free came alive that day and I knew what they meant. Prior to that, my explanation would have been a bit uncertain as it was only theoretical, not backed up by experience.

There are times when we don't need experience to prove scripture as in "Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the father but by me." We just know that it is right.

There are others that we think we have a grasp of, but when push comes to shove, we don't really know. That is until is it backed up by practical experience. If we haven't the experience to teach us, I think it is best to say "I think but I can't prove it...yet." We need to discover that the proof of the pudding is in the eating and if eating proves you right, problem solved.

So tell me why did he attribute his lack of growing and maturing to being possessed?

Show me where that's taught that to be more mature in your christian walk, you need demons cast out.

Jesus
Peter
James
Paul
John

Who teaches such things?


I think the biggest defenders of this teaching are all Pentecostal to be honest.
That's who teaches such things

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear M,

Well said...very clear.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[Rex]

Dear M,

Well said...very clear.

Blessings,

Justin

Proverbs 27:6

 

[Delivered]

Can Christians be possessed by demons? No, Christians cannot be possessed by demons. This is simply impossible for as Christians we have been bought by the blood of Christ and transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the Kingdom of His Glorious Light! Hallelujah!
Do demons dwell within Christians? Yes this is a real possibility and sadly, it happens much more than most of the Christian church is willing to recognize and deal with.
I have read and heard statements to the effect that demons cannot dwell in a Christian believer who is truly born again.
Having had countless discussions and debates on this subject, I don’t want to even go into a discussion at this point. But since I was asked to share on this forum, I will just give a personal testimony.
In 1983 I was quite depressed and considered suicide as an option to end what I believed a hopeless situation. My children occasionally still remind me of the day I suggested to drive into a support pillar of an overpass on a highway.
The 14th of December 1983 I found myself in a Pentecostal church to attend a Christmas play by the Sunday school. I remember being bored to tears and when the play was finished desperately wanting to go home. I was dared by the person who got me there in the first place to respond to the call of the pastor to go forward. This person was an unbeliever too who had seen me raising my hand when I heard the pastor asking during a prayer if all those who believed in Jesus would raise their hand. After all, I had always believed that Jesus was real. I still remember vividly being dumbfounded that in a Pentecostal church only two people raised their hands. The pastor never said that, I was meant to hear that. While walking towards the podium I experienced something incredible: an overwhelming joy and love filled me. I had never experienced something like that in my life. To make a long story short, I immediately received a hunger to read the Bible to discover Who gave me that incredible joy and within weeks I joined a small prayer group.
This is when a spirit of fear manifested. As soon as I would kneel to pray in my home, I became overwhelmed with a fear so strong that I didn’t dare to close my eyes. I met with a prayer counselor who explained the power of the Name of Jesus and taught me to come against this spirit in Jesus’s Name. At this time he prayed with me and I received the gift on tongues.
I began attending weekly services at a deliverance ministry where a spirit of witchcraft was discerned and commanded to leave in the mighty Name of Jesus. This spirit had gained a foothold in my life after I had practiced “visualising and declaring” for my marriage to be healed. I learned this from the teachings of Norman Vincent Peale. After renouncing these practices and confessing them I became free.
About a year later a group of Christians came to town for a large deliverance group seminar. At the evening meeting attendees were asked to pray what were termed “renouncement” prayers. At this time I began to what they termed “manifest.” I began to sob and was overcome by an overpowering sense of rejection. When one of the prayer counselors mentioned “not meeting the expectations of the father,” an inner war broke out. The counselors (others had joined him) began ordering the spirit of rejection to leave me which only made things worse for me. They persisted and all of a sudden I felt something like large claws of a bird of prey tearing at the inside of my shoulder blades. Something left through my throat and peace came.
Several years later, after having become involved with prayer counseling and ministering to oppressed Christians myself, as part of a prayer counseling course, I had to partake in a counseling session as a counselee. This was a requirement of this particular ministry. Prior to entering the session I jokingly said that I would be stunned if something would be identified.
After over an hour of prayerfully going through my life history, the intercessor discerned a spiritual oppression in me. I felt a very fast negative response within myself to this report and I became very angry inside. The counselors prayed and commanded the spirit to identify itself. It was a very unnerving experience and I felt rage inside. The rage became stronger and stronger. All of a sudden I saw myself when I was 4 years old being sexually abused. Up to this point I had no conscious recollection of this, but now I saw myself in the situation. The memory became very vivid and I remembered the incident very clearly and felt the rage reaching a boiling point. I screamed “I hate you!” The counselors began commanding the spirit of hate/rage to leave me, upon it responded through me “No, I won’t!” After about 5 minutes of this all of a sudden with a very loud scream which was heard by all the other groups in other rooms down the hall, I screamed “NO!” and it left. The sore throat I had for several days after confirmed that something drastic had taken place. The prayer counselors were as surprised as I was. They stated that this was the first time they encountered a case like mine

As a note. In my experience Pentecostals are the strongest and vocal in opposing the possibility of demons dwelling in Christians. The Pentecostal churches I know don't allow deliverance ministry in their churches.

Delivered

 

[Axehead]

Thank you very, very much for your testimony, Delivered. And thank you for making the important distinction that Christians cannot be possessed by demons, but that demons can dwell within Christians. They are not one in the same. The Lord bless you and continue to prosper you as you minister Christ to others.

Axehead

 

[dragonfly]

Hello, Delivered,

Thank you very much for accepting my invitation to testify here.

I'm sure not only myself, but others also, appreciate your willingness to lay out these personal experiences publicly, for the glory of God.

 

[marksman]

So tell me why did he attribute his lack of growing and maturing to being possessed?

In a word, he didn't. He had a very effective healing ministry and God showed him he was being motivated by rejection. When he was delivered of it, he was even more effective because he was doing it for different reasons.

I think the biggest defenders of this teaching are all Pentecostal to be honest. That's who teaches such things

The church where all this happened was a charismatic Brethren, one that experienced revival for 30 years continuously.

Have any of you that are talking about demonic possession dealt face to face with this type of thing?

At our first national residential conference, at he end of the evening meeting, people were invited to the front for prayer. Being one of the conference leaders, it was my job to do the praying.

The first person that I spoke to said "I am a homosexual and I don't want to be."

"Are you serious God. Couldn't you have given me something easy to start with."

I threw the towel in without trying. I said that I would have to consult with others about this and I would get back to him.

I spoke to some other leaders and they said they would ask the Lord about it and get back to me. Next morning one of them said to me "We think that you are the one to deal with the situation." No amount of protestations would change his mind so I began to wonder what it was like walking on the water.

I met up with the young man after breakfast and told him what had transpired. I asked him if he was OK with that and he said yes all he wanted was not to be homosexual.

We went to a private room and and I stepped out onto the water. I spent some time going through relevant scripture and then said I was going to lay hands on him and pray for him to be freed from the spirit of homosexuality.

He was sat on a settee and I laid hands on him and commanded the spirit to leave. He screamed out fell to the floor and sobbed. In that moment of time he was delivered of the spirit.

How do I know? I saw him many months later and he introduced me to his girlfriend. The next time I saw him he introduced me to his fiancée. The next time he introduced me to his wife (all one and the same). The next time he introduced me to his baby son.

Theologically, I am sure someone can shoot me down in flames, but I know what I know and saw what I saw and for me the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Or to put it simply you can say "that is a plum pudding." I say, "How do I know." The reply is "Eat it." I eat it and say "Yes, that is a plum pudding."

NOW, if the box it came in said it was a rice pudding, I would have to say "sorry, but that is not correct. Someone put it in the wrong box." Which means, words alone can be insufficient.

 

[Rex]

I just going to say If you can't find some clear evidence of a teaching and practice be careful

Heres the NT warning
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

And heres an OT example threw Moses, he was not allowed entering into the symbolic promised land. I say symbolic of heaven of course Moses never lost his salvation but you deiced for yourself what the message is.
Notice the water came forth even in disobedience.

Numbers 20 the second time water is brought from the rock.
7 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 8 “Take the rod; you and your brother Aaron gather the congregation together. Speak to the rock before their eyes, and it will yield its water; thus you shall bring water for them out of the rock, and give drink to the congregation and their animals.” 9 So Moses took the rod from before the Lord as He commanded him.
10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly together before the rock; and he said to them, “Hear now, you rebels! Must we bring water for you out of this rock?” 11 Then Moses lifted his hand and struck the rock twice with his rod; and water came out abundantly, and the congregation and their animals drank.
12 Then the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not believe Me, to hallow Me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them.”


22 Now the children of Israel, the whole congregation, journeyed from Kadesh and came to Mount Hor. 23 And the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron in Mount Hor by the border of the land of Edom, saying: 24 “Aaron shall be gathered to his people, for he shall not enter the land which I have given to the children of Israel, because you rebelled against My word at the water of Meribah.

 

[Shirley]

I am learning stuff from this topic and appreciate the time you all are putting in here. I am sure thinking and want you all to know I am thankful for the discussion. Right now I am thinking that perhaps possession is when a devil enters the spirit. It seems to me that an unclean spirit and possession is not the same. I mean the Holy Spirit first enters the Spirit of man but the unclean spirit still owns part of the mind and flesh. If this is called a demon then it is not the same kind of thing as a devil. Right? It can afflict the flesh and the mind but not touch the spirit. Ok so I dont know much or if I'm right but this is what I am thinking now. So God enters the Spirit when you have faith and belief and begins to cleanse the mind. Is the mind the soul? Well I dont know. But anywho the mind is still messed up after u believed. Otherwise how could the apostle have to tell them to stop stealing. Obviously they might not have known it was wrong. So they had accepted Jesus and had faith in God but the devil Kingdom still owned the brain and the flesh. So they had to be taught and then God owned more of them. Then the flesh still got in the way and Satan kingdom still used the flesh. So even though the Holy Spirit owned them even still the flesh got in the way. Oh wreched me what ever shall I do?

Well so then God showed me stuff and I was disobedient giving Satan evil spirits over whom he has control permission to make me sick and attack my body. So demon or sickness? Or did God give permission to unclean spirit to attack me to test me? How can I know?

Well in my case I know I disobedient and that I make excuses. I am not just in the wilderness but I am in disobedience Does this mean I gave Satan Kingdom permission to attack?

Has God left my Spirit? He is mad at me for sure. Oh God please deliver me from myself!!!!!

Well sorry bout that but any who really could the disagreement between ya all be really just the difference between how we label an unclean spirit and a devil? I really wish I knew all this stuff. Sorry-- I know I am not smart enough to talk to u guys so I hope u won't be mean to me. I came here to learn and sometimes it hurts to learn -so bad. And sometimes I am so confused that I forget what I already know. Oh I will get real- I sure dont know much,but love you all and am thankful that u all had the guts to talk up here. thanks a lot!!!!

 

[Axehead]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Shirley" data-cid="178166" data-time="1355890044">I am learning stuff from this topic and&nbsp;appreciate&nbsp;the time you all are putting in here. &nbsp; I am sure thinking and want you all to know I am&nbsp;thankful&nbsp;for the discussion. &nbsp; Right now I am thinking that perhaps&nbsp;possession&nbsp;is when a devil enters the spirit. &nbsp;It seems to me that an unclean spirit and possession is not the same. &nbsp;I mean the Holy Spirit first enters the Spirit of man but the unclean spirit still owns part of the mind and flesh. &nbsp;If this is called a demon then it is not the same kind of thing as a devil. &nbsp; Right? &nbsp; It can afflict the flesh and the mind but not touch the spirit. &nbsp;Ok so I dont know much or if I'm right but this is what I am thinking now. &nbsp;So God enters the Spirit when you have faith and belief and begins to cleanse the mind. &nbsp;Is the mind the soul? &nbsp;Well I dont know. &nbsp;But anywho the mind is still messed up after u believed. Otherwise how could the apostle have to tell them to stop stealing. &nbsp;Obviously&nbsp;they might not have&nbsp;known&nbsp;it was wrong. &nbsp;So they had accepted Jesus and had faith in God but the devil Kingdom still owned the brain and the flesh. &nbsp;So they had to be taught and then God owned more of them. &nbsp;Then the flesh still got in the way and Satan kingdom still used the flesh. &nbsp; So even though the Holy Spirit owned them even still the flesh got in the way. &nbsp;Oh wreched me what ever shall I do? &nbsp;&nbsp;
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Well so then God showed me stuff and I was&nbsp;disobedient&nbsp;giving Satan &nbsp;evil spirits over whom he has&nbsp;control&nbsp;permission to make me sick and attack my body. &nbsp;So demon or sickness? &nbsp;Or did God give permission to unclean spirit to attack me to test me? How can I know?</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Well in my case I know I&nbsp;disobedient&nbsp;and that I make excuses. &nbsp;I am not just in the wilderness but I am in&nbsp;disobedience&nbsp; &nbsp;Does this mean I gave Satan Kingdom permission to attack? &nbsp;&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Has God left my Spirit? &nbsp;He is mad at me for sure. &nbsp;Oh God please deliver me from myself!!!!!</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Well sorry bout that &nbsp;but any who really could the disagreement between ya all be really just the difference between how we label an unclean spirit and a devil? &nbsp;I really wish I knew all this stuff. &nbsp;Sorry-- I know I am not smart enough to talk to u guys so I hope u won't be mean to me. &nbsp;I came here to learn and sometimes it hurts to learn -so bad. &nbsp; And sometimes I am so confused that I forget what I already know. &nbsp;Oh I will get real- I sure dont know much,but love you all and am thankful that u all had the guts to talk up here. &nbsp;thanks a lot!!!!</p>
</blockquote>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Hi Shirley,&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Thanks for contributing your experience.&nbsp;I don't believe the Devil can enter the spirit, Shirley. That is what he wants, of course. He wants to be like God, but he can only attach himself to the body. And this in turn, will oppress our spirit. When he gains a foothold within us or on us or however anyone wants to put it, he has gained a foothold or stronghold and will look to gain more &quot;real estate&quot; once he gets &quot;a foot in the door.&quot;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Jesus Christ is joined to our spirit and His presence affects our body and soul (mind, will and emotions). He renews our mind, strengthens our will and heals our emotions. Thus, making us whole and functioning individuals able to walk as He walked and to love and receive love as a spiritually functioning individual should. Yet, we must keep the &quot;hedge&quot; up. Meaning, we must walk in love and maintain God's peace in our life. By walking in Love before Him we are walking as obedient children. If we fall and don't repent and start walking as disobedient children again then we are no longer walking in agreement with the Holy Spirit but rather we are walking in agreement with our flesh nature which is the same as the nature of Satan.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Here you can see that the flesh nature is the same as the nature of Satan.</p>
<p><img alt="Walking-in-the-flesh1.jpg" src="http://www.theovercomer.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Walking-in-the-flesh1.jpg" /></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>So, we are walking in agreement with Satan. And Satan will surely not bless us when we <strong>&quot;give place to him.&quot; When we give place to the Devil his&nbsp;presence affects our body and soul (mind, will and emotions), too.</strong>&nbsp;When God's hedge of protection comes down in our life, we are open to attacks from the enemy. These attacks can come in many forms and manifestations. The Hebrew Children found this out in the wilderness every time they strayed from the Lord. He was always speaking to them to repent and helping them to repent (chastisement). When they finally did repent (took back the land they surrendered) He brought deliverance, though there was always a price they paid for their sin.&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Shirley, just as God used the nations surrounding Israel to chastise them (there were powers of darkness behind these nations), He will allow the powers of darkness to chastise us. They are a tool in His hand and He states this in the Bible. There is little fear of God today, because people don't make the connection anymore that you will reap what you sow (in this life).&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>We are also admonished by Paul, speaking by the Holy Spirit:&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Gal_6:7 &nbsp;Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>and&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Eph_4:27 &nbsp;Neither give place to the devil.&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Paul is very well aware that we can &quot;give place to the devil&quot; in our lives. That is the same as a &quot;foothold&quot; in our lives which if we do not deal with it will become a stronghold.&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Blessings to you, Shirley.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Jud_1:21 &nbsp;<strong>Keep yourselves in the love of God,</strong> looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Axehead</p>

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear M,

Very powerful testimony. Well written too.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[Rex]

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

 

[Axehead]

Thanks for contributing your experience, Shirley. I don't believe the Devil can enter the spirit, Shirley. That is what he wants, of course. He wants to be like God, but he can only attach himself to the body. But, this in turn, will oppress our spirit. When he gains a foothold within us or on us or however anyone wants to put it, he has gained a foothold or stronghold and will look to gain more real estate once he gets a foot in the door.

Jesus Christ is joined to our spirit and His presence affects our whole body and soul (mind, will and emotions). He renews our mind, strengthens our will and heals our emotions. Thus, making us whole and functioning individuals able to walk as He walked and to love and receive love as a spiritually functioning individual should. Yet, we must keep the "hedges" up. Meaning, we must walk in love and maintain God's peace in our life. By walking in Love before Him we are walking as obedient children. If we fall and don't repent and start walking as disobedient children again then we are no longer walking in agreement with the Holy Spirit but rather we are walking in agreement with our flesh nature which is the same as the nature of Satan.

Here you can see that the flesh nature is the same as the nature of Satan.

So, we are walking in agreement with Satan. And Satan will surely not bless us when we give place to him. When we give place to the Devil his presence affects our body and soul (mind, will and emotions), too. When God's hedge of protection comes down in our life, we are open to attacks from the enemy. These attacks can come in many forms and manifestations. The Hebrew Children found this out in the wilderness every time they strayed from the Lord. He was always speaking to them to repent and helping them to repent (chastisement). When they finally did repent (took back the land they surrendered) He brought deliverance, though there was always a price they paid for their sin.

Shirley, just as God used the nations surrounding Israel to chastise them (there were powers of darkness behind these nations), He will allow the powers of darkness to chastise us. They are a tool in His hand and He states this in the Bible. There is little fear of God today, because people don't make the connection anymore that you will reap what you sow (in this life not just the next).

We are also admonished by Paul, speaking by the Holy Spirit:

Gal_6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Eph_4:27 Neither give place to the devil.

Paul is very well aware that we can give place to the devil in our lives. That is the same as a foothold in our lives which if we do not deal with it will become a stronghold.

Blessings to you, Shirley.

Jude_1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Axehead

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Shirley,

Thank you for your post in this thread. It's a blessing to know that someone is being helped by the discussion. I would like to try to give a biblical context to some of your questions, so that you can anchor your thoughts on the word of God.

I am learning stuff from this topic and appreciate the time you all are putting in here. I am sure thinking and want you all to know I am thankful for the discussion. Right now I am thinking that perhaps possession is when a devil enters the spirit. It seems to me that an unclean spirit and possession is not the same. I mean the Holy Spirit first enters the Spirit of man but the unclean spirit still owns part of the mind and flesh. If this is called a demon then it is not the same kind of thing as a devil. Right? It can afflict the flesh and the mind but not touch the spirit. Ok so I dont know much or if I'm right but this is what I am thinking now. So God enters the Spirit when you have faith and belief and begins to cleanse the mind. Is the mind the soul? Well I dont know. But anywho the mind is still messed up after u believed. Otherwise how could the apostle have to tell them to stop stealing. Obviously they might not have known it was wrong. So they had accepted Jesus and had faith in God but the devil Kingdom still owned the brain and the flesh. So they had to be taught and then God owned more of them. Then the flesh still got in the way and Satan kingdom still used the flesh. So even though the Holy Spirit owned them even still the flesh got in the way. Oh wreched me what ever shall I do?

Well so then God showed me stuff and I was disobedient giving Satan evil spirits over whom he has control permission to make me sick and attack my body. So demon or sickness? Or did God give permission to unclean spirit to attack me to test me? How can I know?

Well in my case I know I disobedient and that I make excuses. I am not just in the wilderness but I am in disobedience Does this mean I gave Satan Kingdom permission to attack?

Has God left my Spirit? He is mad at me for sure. Oh God please deliver me from myself!!!!!

Well sorry bout that but any who really could the disagreement between ya all be really just the difference between how we label an unclean spirit and a devil? I really wish I knew all this stuff. Sorry-- I know I am not smart enough to talk to u guys so I hope u won't be mean to me. I came here to learn and sometimes it hurts to learn -so bad. And sometimes I am so confused that I forget what I already know. Oh I will get real- I sure dont know much,but love you all and am thankful that u all had the guts to talk up here. thanks a lot!!!!

As everyone who has posted in this discussion has agreed, 'possession' by another spirit (or spirits) is not possible for a Christian who has genuinely believed into Jesus Christ, and has received the Holy Spirit as the earnest (or seal) of having been accepted by God.

The Holy Spirit dwells with our human spirit, and through Him God is able to work in our life for His own glory.

The reason faith works, is that it's based on truth. Jesus Christ really did buy back the whole of mankind from Satan's control. This is called 'redemption'. Once a person has come into agreement with God about His desire to own them, He begins the work of restoring their soul and renewing their mind. According to Paul, the renewing of the mind follows from yielding our bodies (flesh) fully, to doing the will of God.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

You said, ' So they had accepted Jesus and had faith in God but the devil Kingdom still owned the brain and the flesh. So they had to be taught and then God owned more of them. Then the flesh still got in the way and Satan kingdom still used the flesh. So even though the Holy Spirit owned them even still the flesh got in the way.'

The whole of our lives before we received the Holy Spirit, we were living 'according to the flesh' - maybe even religious flesh, but flesh nevertheless. It can be shocking to come to understand how steeped we were in sin, and how comfortable we were with sin, before the Holy Spirit began to cast new light into our minds, and show us things about ourselves we had not known before. It is important to remember God knew these already! He still loved the world and gave Himself for us, that we would receive His love, and allow Him to save us.

Jesus said in John 8:34 'Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin', and Paul takes this up in Romans 6, pointing out that if we have been baptised into the death of Jesus Christ, we are to be dead to sin and alive to God, so that our lives can now bear fruit of righteousness and holiness. The battle for supremacy takes place in the mind and in the flesh, where we have old habits of thought and behaviour which we now realise are not godly.

You said, 'Right now I am thinking that perhaps possession is when a devil enters the spirit. It seems to me that an unclean spirit and possession is not the same. I mean the Holy Spirit first enters the Spirit of man but the unclean spirit still owns part of the mind and flesh. If this is called a demon then it is not the same kind of thing as a devil. Right?'

To the best of my knowledge, in the original Greek New Testament, the same word is used for 'spirit', which has been translated as 'demon', 'devil' or 'unclean/evil spirit'. Each 'spirit of ...' has a unique mindset. A person who doesn't realise they have a spirit, is completely at home with the thought patterns of that spirit. Jesus said that a spirit can bring other spirits with it, which suggests they work together sometimes, but, it would not necessarily seem to the person who needs deliverance, that issues are spiritually related. They may be so used to reasoning in such a way as to keep the spirit(s) happy, that they may not remember ever thinking differently, unless the spirit came in through a physical or psychological attack of some sort, which created fear. Many spirits thrive on fear, which is why it is important to learn to trust the Lord's love and power.

Some spirits seem stronger than others, but none of them are stronger than the Holy Spirit by a very very long way. Remember, the Son of God watched Satan fall as lightning from heaven. Satan has been on the losing side since before mankind existed.

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God.
Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.


You asked, 'Does this mean I gave Satan Kingdom permission to attack?' The short answer is, yes. But, you can start to practise obedience, even though it can be very tough to do, and you will experience God's deliverance more and more and more as you establish His right to that part of your life. The process is described by Paul in Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. It is not too late to reclaim areas of your life for the Lord, in His name and with His authority.

Our battles with flesh are a mixture of things. Some things we think we hate as much as God does, but some things have a hold on us because we like them. There is very often a relationship between one and the other. I have great hope for you, Shirley, that as you put your mind to trusting God to bring you through, He will open your understanding to the way Satan has tried to ruin your life, and you will get the better of him more and more.

The verse to remember at all times, is Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he has perfected [or completed] for ever them that are sanctified. This is the true spiritual basis for all the changes which the Lord can bring to pass in your heart, your mind, and your body. You already belong to Him. He is already at work in you to release you from every bondage, and to heal every part of you which needs healing.

All of us, if we are honest, have had prolonged battles with certain issues. Sometimes we can hold on until we get a breakthrough with the Lord's help. Other times we actually need to admit we're stuck, and ask for another to pray with us, or for us, or, to be a witness to our prayer to commit a certain problem area of our lives to God, giving Him full permission to do whatever it takes to set us free.

1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ has suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin; 2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.


One of the meanings of the Greek word which we translate 'salvation', is healing, or wholeness. God wants us to be whole.

Hello again, Shirley,


Jeremiah 23:5 Behold, the days come, says the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. 6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, the Lord our Righteousness.

The 'earth' of our lives, could be a metaphor for the temple of the body. If spirits are involved in strongholds, the more we follow after righteousness - meaning, follow after the Lord, our Righteousness - the more they will lose their grip, (or their footing - depending on how you look at it).


This quote from another thread is a good description of what it's like to grow through obedience to the Lord's leadings. Rex is not talking about spirits, but the principles are exactly the same. Focusing on Jesus and following Him, leads to victories over the flesh.



'... I find that I as I draw near to God the baggage falls off, the old man the sinful nature, the struggle with the flesh.

So when your stuck on a step, you can't make the climb don't wrestle with your pack, simply look up toward your destination and say, Lord what am I missing.
But don't be deceived and think your tent the flesh will not be brought into submission as well, to reflect the Holiness within you, there is a time and place for everything in each of us, what I'm saying is don't wrestle until the Lord calls you to. Many spend there whole christian walk at war with the flesh, they in their own strength have over come a requirement necessary to ascend the upper parts of the path, but IMO they have spent their whole life on the first few steps in self preparation instead of climbing, following. Let me fist go and bury my mother and father Matthew 8:19-22

For example pot comes to mind, a thread not long ago, now when you came to know Christ you may well be smoking pot or any other number of things, most churches will tell you the first step is stop smoking cigarettes or pot, give up the gay lifestyle first, quite drinking then you can climb, I disagree, Along the way you learn and the Lord provides the tools and necessary understanding, it begins to fall off, I hope I've made myself clear. It may be first for you, it may be several years. God knows you and understands exactly the results of the path He has laid before you. To equip you, to ensure you complete it, being made into his likeness. He didn't tell you to first meet a list of prerequisites as many practice, when He has placed His spirit upon you, He has every intention of seeing you complete the journey completing each step in the sequence He has determined. I'm not saying their are many paths to God simply there are many different people all walking in the same saving grace of Christ ...'


(Taken from Rex's post on p1 http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17250-why-do-christians-shoot-the-wounded/)



Although some Christians - as testified in this thread - have had spirits cast out by name - there are many testimonies by Christians, of spirits leaving as a result of their dwelling place being handed over to Christ. Christ is our strong Deliverer, our high tower, our strength, our shield. As we give our whole life to Him with a whole heart, He takes control. We can give Him our whole life many times a day, if necessary.

It can be hard to let go of some things, but you can tell the Lord about the struggle, and you can invite Him to demolish the stronghold and heal you at the same time. We have an idea that going on with God (walking faithfully with the Lord Jesus Christ) has to be dramatic and newsworthy, when in fact it is a very ordinary taking of one step at a time, trusting Him to keep leading us into a broader pasture.


John 10:3 To him the porter opens; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calls his own sheep by name, and leads them out.

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

John 14:22 Judas said to him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself to us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said to him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

 

[marksman]

I just going to say If you can't find some clear evidence of a teaching and practice be careful

Heres the NT warning
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Thankyou for your concern brother, but you have nothing to fear.

I have found time and time again very clear evidence of the teaching and practice of deliverance.

The verse you quoted is not relevant as it is addressed to those who practised lawlessness which means illegality or a violation of the law. I have not done either bearing in mind that the law of the spirit of life sets us free from the law of sin and death.

As far as I know, no one who I have prayed for has been brought into bondage to the law of sin and death.

 

[Rex]

Thankyou for your concern brother, but you have nothing to fear.

I have found time and time again very clear evidence of the teaching and practice of deliverance.

The verse you quoted is not relevant as it is addressed to those who practised lawlessness which means illegality or a violation of the law. I have not done either bearing in mind that the law of the spirit of life sets us free from the law of sin and death.

As far as I know, no one who I have prayed for has been brought into bondage to the law of sin and death.

So you removed the lower 2/3 of my post in your quote
My example and explanation about choosing that verse, the part that further explained my position.
If you were a news outlet I would accuse you of selective journalism

The relevance is Moses disobeyed Gods instruction that IMO is practicing lawlessness.

The NT relevance is practicing and teaching demonology in Christians which there is no instruction for or evidence of demons in Christians found in the NT.
That to IMO is lawlessness.

It would be the same lawlessness If I taught that to be saved you must be baptized in olive oil.
or to free yourself from sin and the old man you should at all times carry a plastic Jesus in your purse or pocket.

That in my opinion is lawlessness,