Do People Still Need Weekly Rest?
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Nope but what has it to do with you, are you a bad person, do you not love, do you need law to be good, is His righteousness so bad that you need the law to be righteous, when you have finished condemning your self and the world to death by the law, will that be enough for you, will you always reject grace, will it never be enough for you. When will you turn from your religion and its doctrines and run to Christ, is He always going to be last, is itbeing seeing to be doing by men what you prefer, cleaning the outside of the cup. Will Christ never be enough for you,
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
What you call religion is Christ's church, His vehicle for sharing the gospel throughout the world.
And it was Christ Who led me to the church wherein I now serve. My allegiance isn't however to the church... It a human institution and flawed... Yet it has a purpose. My allegiance is to Christ and until He tells me otherwise I'll be staying.
Most of your post is just bigoted dribble. Full of presumption and nonsense.
Correct. So your issues with God's commandments are your issues, and not mine.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians in the New Testament. *Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Even when Sabbatarians set out to worship on the Sabbath day, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the old covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.
If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).
These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1). God's word makes it clear that Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: "The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested." (Exodus 31:16-17)
In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the Ten Commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: "Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day." (Deuteronomy 5:15)
If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why don't Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can someone keep a certain law when they only keep part of it? If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people. So who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church or perhaps the Government?
Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the law under the old covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.
Even when Sabbatarians set out to worship on the Sabbath day, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the old covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.
If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).
These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1). God's word makes it clear that Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: "The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested." (Exodus 31:16-17)
In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the Ten Commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: "Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day." (Deuteronomy 5:15)
If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why don't Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can someone keep a certain law when they only keep part of it? If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people. So who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church or perhaps the Government?
Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the law under the old covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.
Seventh day adventism is not His church that why it is called seventh day adventism, that is why it has its doctrines, that is why it has its rules, what has that to wit h God, or Christ yet you go condemn the catholics for the same reason, is not that Hypocrisy??
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
If the law of "thou shalt not kill" is still in effect, why do not those who keep the commandment of "thou shalt not kill" keep all of the commandments?
Is a valid argument to what was spoken.
That, if the law of the sabbath day is still in effect, why do not those who keep it also keep all of the other commandments?
The answer is that of course we should keep all of the other commandments (James 2:10-12).
In Romans 13:9, there are the words, and if there be any other commandment.
And my point is that "thou shalt not kill" is in the ten commandments, and so is "Thou shalt remember the sabbath day to keep it holy."
And therefore if you are going to get rid of the sabbath, what is to prevent you from getting rid of the commandment, "thou shalt not kill"?
It is similar to the idea that if you get rid of the 2nd amendment in the Constitution, the 1st amendment will not be far behind in being eradicated.
When Jesus changed the sabbath law (Hebrews 7:12) He did not get rid of it entirely. He made stipulations about it; that the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath; and that it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.
Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made obsolete the old covenant to put into place the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10).
Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments, which are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
In regards to Jesus’ statement in Mark 2:27-28, this was in response to the accusation by the Pharisees that His disciples were breaking the law regarding resting on the Sabbath while going through some fields and plucking heads of grain (Mark 2:23-28). Jesus responded by giving an example from the Old Testament that David was once in need of food and was given consecrated bread that was only lawful for the priests to eat (1 Samuel 21:1-61). The bread had served a practical need for David and his followers, just as it did with Jesus and His disciples.
David and his men were not acting sinfully in eating the showbread, and neither were Jesus’ disciples acting sinfully in plucking heads of grain on the Sabbath. Jesus' response to the accusing Pharisees concludes that the Sabbath was intended to help people, not burden them. In contrast with the grueling daily work as slaves in Egypt, the Israelites were commanded to take a day of rest each week under the Mosaic law.
The Pharisees had turned the Sabbath into a burden, adding restrictions beyond what God’s law said. The disciples had not broken God’s law; they had only violated the Pharisees’ legalistic, interpretation of the law. Jesus reminded the Pharisees of the original intent of the Sabbath.
None of the law is binding on the church (Romans 6:14; Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19; Romans 7:6; Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 7:18-19). There is no condemnation for violating the law if you are a New Testament believer.
However, if you are a New Testament believer, the law is written on your heart and in your mind (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).
What I am saying is that as those under the New Covenant, we are not any longer condemned by the law from the outside; while we are governed by the law from the inside.
The Pharisees were correct in saying that a man ought not to do any work on the sabbath day (Exodus 20:10).
Jesus changed the sabbath day laws (Hebrews 7:12) so that it became lawful to do well on the sabbath days; and reinterpreted things so that the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath; in other words, Jesus gave it back to us as a gift rather than a burden. No longer was it a legalistic requirement but it is now given as a blessing.
As such, it is not removed from the ten commandments and it stands as a law that we are not to violate in principle.
The sabbath, to me, means resting with the Lord and hearing from Him what He has to say to me before I hunker down and work again. This can be done on Saturday; or it can be done every day of the week at a specific time in which you are resting.
It is not a burden to rest. It is only a burden if you are forced to rest when something pressing is requiring your attention.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Well there you go. If you question Paul's authority, you have no means of questioning my theology. It is all based on Paul's theology!
They do teach this. But your saying they don't will only make it more likely that the people reading will be Bereans (Acts of the Apostles 17:10-11) and see that these passages do indeed teach it. So I am happy.
I don't remember which thread, I was hoping you would see it, I posted each of these verses in their contexts, none of them actually say that.
I love examining passages in the Bible!
However, if you are a New Testament believer, the law is written on your heart and in your mind (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).
Hebrews 8
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
This is specific to say that this applies to the house of Israel and the house of Judah. God even says their fathers were the people God led out of Egypt, so I'd say this is fairly plain language.
Hebrews 10:16
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
This is quoting and summarizing from Jeremiah 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
And again this is plainly speaking about Israel and Judah.
In Hebrews where this is quoted, notice, "for after that he had said before", this is to say He is referenced what He said through Jeremiah, and there is no change or extending to others. The point of the passage it to affirm the end of sacrifices, that is, the sin offering. But there is no "writing the Law on the hearts of the gentiles" here, at least, not that I can see.
OK, I'm running out of time . . . maybe you will come across my other post, I covered all the verses if I remember right.
Much love!
Maybe you could provide a link.
The problem with your interpretation is that you are saying that Gentiles are not a part of the New Covenant (really see Hebrews 8:8-10).
However, Ephesians 3:6 plainly contradicts such a pov.
I'm pointing you to what the passage says.
And here is the text of Ephesians 3:6, "That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel".
However I don't see this passage supporting that we should include the Gentiles as part of Israel in the other passage:
the New Covenant (really see Hebrews 8:8-10).
Again, this passage is addressed to Israel and Judah.
Much love!
In Hebrews 8:8-10:
Heb 8:8, For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9, Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
I would say that Gentiles are a part of the New Covenant (Ephesians 3:6); and therefore they are a part of the covenant that is defined here in Hebrews 8:8-10; since the covenant here is defined as the New Covenant.
That the law is written on our hearts and minds as new covenant Gentiles is evident in Romans 8:7 and Romans 8:4; you can also look at Romans 5:5 and compare it to Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, and 2 John 1:6.
The verses referenced above teach us that it is the love of God to keep his commandments; and that we are given the love of God through the Holy Ghost. So then, if we have the love of God, we will not be in violation of any of His commandments (Galatians 5:22-23); and will also be exemplifying the positive aspects of the law. Not by attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts; but by being obedient to the leadings and promptings of the Holy Spirit. In having His love shed abroad in our hearts, and in walking according to it, we will be fulfilling the righteousness of the law (Romans 8:4) through His love abiding in our hearts. Also, if we are spiritually minded, we are at peace with God because we are subject in our minds to His law, and cannot be otherwise (inverse of Romans 8:7)
Heb 8:8, For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9, Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
I would say that Gentiles are a part of the New Covenant (Ephesians 3:6); and therefore they are a part of the covenant that is defined here in Hebrews 8:8-10; since the covenant here is defined as the New Covenant.
That the law is written on our hearts and minds as new covenant Gentiles is evident in Romans 8:7 and Romans 8:4; you can also look at Romans 5:5 and compare it to Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, and 2 John 1:6.
The verses referenced above teach us that it is the love of God to keep his commandments; and that we are given the love of God through the Holy Ghost. So then, if we have the love of God, we will not be in violation of any of His commandments (Galatians 5:22-23); and will also be exemplifying the positive aspects of the law. Not by attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts; but by being obedient to the leadings and promptings of the Holy Spirit. In having His love shed abroad in our hearts, and in walking according to it, we will be fulfilling the righteousness of the law (Romans 8:4) through His love abiding in our hearts. Also, if we are spiritually minded, we are at peace with God because we are subject in our minds to His law, and cannot be otherwise (inverse of Romans 8:7)
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liafailrock
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Yes they do. Shabbat Shalom! (Saturday) It's for man, and to give God His time as well.
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