Do you accept this a Biblical fact or fiction?:

[Abaxvahl]

Jesus was saying, 'Don't call me good, because only God is good', therefore he was effectively stating that he was not God.

On the contrary the Lord calls Himself God here and is raising the man's idea of Him to divinity. St. Bede and St. Theophylact say it best perhaps:

Bede: "But by this one God, Who is good, we must not only understand the Father, but also the Son, who says, 'I am the good Shepherd;' (John 10:11) and also the Holy Ghost, because it is said, 'The Father which is in heaven will give the good Spirit to them that ask him.' (Luke 11:13) For the One and Undivided Trinity itself, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, is the Only and One good God. The Lord, therefore, does not deny Himself to be good, but implies that He is God; He does not deny that He is good Master, but He declares that no master is good but God."

Theophylact: "Therefore the Lord intended by these words to raise the mind of the young man, so that he might know Him to be God. But He also implies another thing by these words, that when you have to converse with a man, you should not flatter him in your conversation, but look back upon God, the root and fount of goodness, and do honor to Him."

 

[David in NJ]

No I didn't! Jesus was meek and lowly (Matthew 11:29) and was not judging himself as being good, or boasting. He was giving God all the glory.


Jesus didn't say "none doeth good". Jesus was without sin (Hebrew 4:15) and he did good works, but he didn't boast about it, he gave God the glory. The only person that the Scriptures say is good is Yahweh, as Jesus indicated.

About two thirds of the angels are not sinners, but they are not God. Just because Jesus was not a sinner that does not mean that he was God! Just because he taught that we should consider nobody as good except God, that doesn't mean that he was claiming to be God.

[/QUOTE]

You just committed willful sin now this second time.
You are in idolatry - you worship a false god which is your intellect over God's Word.
You are expressing your will over the Will of God.

 

[keithr]

Bede: "But by this one God, Who is good, we must not only understand the Father, but also the Son, who says, 'I am the good Shepherd;' (John 10:11) and also the Holy Ghost, because it is said, 'The Father which is in heaven will give the good Spirit to them that ask him.' (Luke 11:13)

Surely you don't expect me to accept the writings of somebody who corrupts the Scriptures in order to try and support the Trinity doctrine? Luke 11:13 does not say "good Spirit" - it says Holy Spirit.

 

[Abaxvahl]

Surely you don't expect me to accept the writings of somebody who corrupts the Scriptures in order to try and support the Trinity doctrine? Luke 11:13 does not say "good Spirit" - it says Holy Spirit.

It isn't a corruption it's a variant reading, moreover even without the reading the passage sense is that the Spirit is a good gift, and even without this passage as a whole one can simply quote Psalm 142:10 (143:10 in your Bible most likely) which says "good Spirit," so St. Bede's point remains entirely undisturbed.

As for the variant he was working from the Latin Bible most likely which has this ancient variant: "Si ergo vos, cum sitis mali, nostis bona data dare filiis vestris: quanto magis Pater vester de cælo dabit spiritum bonum petentibus se?" which is "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father from heaven give the good Spirit to them that ask him?"

But as I said you can disregard this entirely and his point is still in tact due to other Scriptures (and not only this Psalm I cited but others as well).

 

[keithr]

You just committed willful sin now this second time.

Nonsense! You don't seem to understand what a sin is.

You are in idolatry - you worship a false god which is your intellect over God's Word.

Nonsense. I am not worshipping my intellect. I worship God (Yahweh), and His Son Jesus.

You are expressing your will over the Will of God.

Nonsense. I wasn't expressing my will, I was expressing my understanding of Mark 10:18.

If somebody said to me, "Hello good man", and I replied, "Why do you call me good? Only God is good", would you expect that person to then say, "Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise that you were God"? That would not be logical. No intelligent person would think that I was claiming to be God, and likewise Jesus was not claiming to be God in Mark 10:18.

 

[keithr]

It isn't a corruption it's a variant reading, moreover even without the reading the passage sense is that the Spirit is a good gift, and even without this passage as a whole one can simply quote Psalm 142:10 (143:10 in your Bible most likely) which says "good Spirit," so St. Bede's point remains entirely undisturbed.

Well Genesis 18:7 refers to a good calf, so is that calf also God?

 

[Abaxvahl]

Well Genesis 18:7 refers to a good calf, so is that calf also God?

No, Christ saying no one is good but God does not exclude other things being good, it only indicates that the true source of goodness is God the Father who is the Principle without Principle of all, including the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Chiefly the proof that other things are good is when the Lord sees (that is knows, which also creates when it is God, for He knows real things and so it is truly) that creation is "good, good, good, good, good, good, very good!" And such includes mankind, so "no man is good" is not strictly that "no man is good" but rather that "the goodness of all comes from the Father."

So just as this passage of St. Mark's Gospel does not deny the goodness of all neither does it imply that Christ isn't divine by nature or Christ isn't good, for He was speaking of the Father from whom all goodness comes.

 

[keithr]

No, Christ saying no one is good but God does not exclude other things being good, it only indicates that the true source of goodness is God the Father

In which case claiming that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are good doesn't imply that they must be God.

 

[Abaxvahl]

In which case claiming that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are good doesn't imply that they must be God.

So do you now no longer hold the position that this is a denial of the divinity of the Son or the Holy Spirit and instead hold that it neither proves nor disproves it?

 

[Wrangler]

It is possible to apply logic and reason to the spiritual, but the carnal mind doesn't receive the things of the spirit, nor can it.

Axiomatic of mysticism. In your estimation, do contradictions exist in reality?

 

[michaelvpardo]

Axiomatic of mysticism. In your estimation, do contradictions exist in reality?

Of course they do. Do you eat Jesus ' flesh? Do you have a 2000 year old supply? Do you drink His blood?
Biblical Christianity is by definition mysticism, direct knowledge of and relationship with the creator of the Universe.
If you don't know Him, how can you imagine that you are of the faith?

 

[michaelvpardo]

"Good" is not a name! Jesus was probably referring to Psalms 85:5 and 199:68, which state that Yahweh is good.

Jesus was saying, 'Don't call me good, because only God is good', therefore he was effectively stating that he was not God. Nobody listening thought that Jesus was claiming that he was God. The person Jesus was addressing then replied (verse 20), “Teacher, I have observed all these things from my youth.” He referred to Jesus as teacher/master - not as God!

No He wasn't. He asked a question. It wasn't a statement or an instruction. Your understanding is corrupted, your interpretations clearly uninformed and forced into your false doctrines.
By asking this question Jesus was testing the questioner's understanding of His person in the same fashion as His disciples. It was Peter's response that the Lord made the standard of faith in Him, the foundation of His church.
16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:16-18

 

[michaelvpardo]

Nonsense! You don't seem to understand what a sin is.


Nonsense. I am not worshipping my intellect. I worship God (Yahweh), and His Son Jesus.

Nonsense. I wasn't expressing my will, I was expressing my understanding Mark 10:18.

If somebody said to me, "Hello good man", and I replied, "Why do you call me good? Only God is good", would you expect that person to then say, "Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise that you were God"? That would not be logical. No intelligent person would think that I was claiming to be God, and likewise Jesus was not claiming to be God in Mark 10:18.

31 “If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true. 32 There is another who bears witness of Me, and I know that the witness which He witnesses of Me is true. John 5:31-32
Jesus didn't travel about announcing Himself as God or even as the Son of God and its unlikely that many would have listened to Him if He did, for the same reason the well educated pharisees, scribes, and Sauducees rejected Him and accused Him of blasphemy.
He clearly stated that He came to fulfill the law and the law says:
“One witness shall not rise against a man concerning any iniquity or any sin that he commits; by the mouth of two or three witnesses the matter shall be established. Deuteronomy 19:15
What Jesus was teaching about His person was clearly violating the law if it was not true, and the satisfaction of the law regarding His person came through the testimony of God's word, the appearing of God's Spirit at His baptism, and the voice from heaven declaring His relationship as the Son of God.
While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” Matthew 17:5
You remain in great error to the risk of your immortal soul.

 

[David in NJ]

Surely you don't expect me to accept the writings of somebody who corrupts the Scriptures in order to try and support the Trinity doctrine? Luke 11:13 does not say "good Spirit" - it says Holy Spirit.

Truly amazing - you get all upset about the Holy Spirit being called 'Good' even though Jesus is Good and the God is Good.

Repentance = to change one's thinking so that it is obedient to Christ and His Words.

Have you repented from calling Jesus a sinner?
Have you repented from saying the Holy Spirit is not Good.

 

[David in NJ]

Nonsense! You don't seem to understand what a sin is.


Nonsense. I am not worshipping my intellect. I worship God (Yahweh), and His Son Jesus.

Nonsense. I wasn't expressing my will, I was expressing my understanding Mark 10:18.

If somebody said to me, "Hello good man", and I replied, "Why do you call me good? Only God is good", would you expect that person to then say, "Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise that you were God"? That would not be logical. No intelligent person would think that I was claiming to be God, and likewise Jesus was not claiming to be God in Mark 10:18.

lol x1000000000000000

You have committed sin - therefore you and me are not 'good' before God......

Just because another sinner calls you 'good' does not make you 'good' before God.

Our Lord Jehovah, Jesus the Christ, never sinned - that is why He said - "there is none good but one - God." Mark 10:18

 

[David in NJ]

lol x1000000000000000

You have committed sin - therefore you and me are not 'good' before God......

Just because another sinner calls you 'good' does not make you 'good' before God.

Our Lord Jehovah, Jesus the Christ, never sinned - that is why He said - "there is none good but one - God." Mark 10:18

Logic will fail you - it is a false hope - Only Faith in the WORD Saves us.

 

[David in NJ]

In which case claiming that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are good doesn't imply that they must be God.

Logic will fail you for it is flawed/corrupted by sin - it is a false hope - Only Faith in the WORD Saves us.

 

[keithr]

So do you now no longer hold the position that this is a denial of the divinity of the Son or the Holy Spirit and instead hold that it neither proves nor disproves it?

None of the verses quoted support the divinity (divine nature) of Jesus or the Holy Spirit, but I've never claimed that the verses denied the divinity of Jesus. No verses in the Bible are wasted on denying anybody/anything is divine and/or God - why would it? I still say that Mark 10:18 does not indicate that Jesus is God.

I have always said that Jesus is now a divine spirit being (and supported that with Bible quotes), i.e. he has the same spirit nature that God has, but that does not mean that Jesus is God. Just as you and I both have a physical human nature, but I am not you and you are not me, likewise Jesus is not God - he is God's Son. God's promise is that He will give Christians the divine nature too, but that does not mean that we will become God or part of God!

 

[keithr]

While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” Matthew 17:5
You remain in great error to the risk of your immortal soul.

You quote this verse and yet you don't believe it! Hear God, He says, "This is My beloved Son". Jesus is God's Son - he is not God!

Jesus didn't travel about announcing Himself as God or even as the Son of God and its unlikely that many would have listened to Him if He did,

Jesus did declare openly that he had come from heaven and from God, and that he was God's son:

John 6:38) For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me.
John 7:

28) Jesus therefore cried out in the temple, teaching and saying, “You both know me, and know where I am from. I have not come of myself, but he who sent me is true, whom you don’t know.
29) I know him, because I am from him, and he sent me.”​

John 8:

42) Therefore Jesus said to them, “If God were your father, you would love me, for I came out and have come from God. For I haven’t come of myself, but he sent me.
43) Why don’t you understand my speech? Because you can’t hear my word.​

John 8:54) Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say that he is our God.

 

[keithr]

Truly amazing - you get all upset about the Holy Spirit being called 'Good' even though Jesus is Good and the God is Good.

Eh? I didn't get upset about the Holy Spirit being called good! I was just inclined not to trust the teachings of somebody who appeared to have changed the word 'Holy' to 'good' so that it would fit his theory that God is not one but is three.

Repentance = to change one's thinking so that it is obedient to Christ and His Words.

Have you repented from calling Jesus a sinner?
Have you repented from saying the Holy Spirit is not Good.

I did not say that Jesus was a sinner, nor that the Holy Spirit is not good. Repent of your lies!

Repentance is a deep sorrow and regret for a past sin or wrongdoing; to say sorry to God and to ask for His forgiveness.