Do you believe in aliens?

[Nancy]

I'm only beginning page 2 of this thread but I have a thought I will forget by the time I read the next 2 pages if I don't write it down.

Where does the idea come that angels don T have bodies? They might not have bodies we can see, maybe until or unless they want us to see them, but if men have entertained angels unawares, wouldn't angels at least sometimes have bodies?

I do happen to believe that angels can appear as a human. How can man entertain angels unless they have an encounter with one appearing to them in human form? And if unaware that they are angels, they must sometimes be in human form. JMO.

 

[Dave L]

book chapter and verse please.

Any mention of the"sons of God" suggests more than angels.

 

[101G]

Any mention of the"sons of God" suggests more than angels.

Right now there are only three entities. 1 God who is the Spirit. 2. angels who are spirits. 3. Man who is flesh, but soon to be glorified. the NEW CREATURE.

so 1. being and 2 creatures.

anything else, I'll leave it up to you...

 

[Dave L]

Right now there are only three entities. 1 God who is the Spirit. 2. angels who are spirits. 3. Man who is flesh, but soon to be glorified. the NEW CREATURE.

so 1. being and 2 creatures.

anything else, I'll leave it up to you...

You forgot "sons of God".

 

[101G]

You forgot "sons of God".

No, they are there in the HUMAN MEN just as Job and his friends was....

 

[Dave L]

No, they are there in the HUMAN MEN just as Job and his friends was....

Before God created the human race?
“Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding.” (Job 38:4) (KJV 1900)
“When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?” (Job 38:7) (KJV 1900)

 

[Episkopos]

ERROR, it was no sin, for sin had not yet even entered into the world.

and two there was no other people, all came from Adam. supportive scripture,
1Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit".

there is only one Adam who was "first". no others.

Adam was first indeed. But there were people in the earth apart from Eden.

 

[101G]

Adam was first indeed. But there were people in the earth apart from Eden.

ERROR, they all came from him. we suggest you examine Gen 3:16 and Gen 3:20 closely. one will see that Adam and Eve had children in the garden before they sin and was removed from the garden, before they had Cain and Abel.

hence the two line from Adam a fallen line us, and a unfallen line the sons of God we see in Chapter 6

study those two verse we gave you... ok.

 

[101G]

Before God created the human race?
“Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding.” (Job 38:4) (KJV 1900)
“When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?” (Job 38:7) (KJV 1900)

(smile), Dave, Dave, Dave, the sons of God in Job 38:4 are not speaking of angels nor humans.... LOL.

we suggest you examine that scripture again, and pay close attention to " the morning stars sang together". we'll give you a clue to the answer here, metaphor........

 

[Dave L]

(smile), Dave, Dave, Dave, the sons of God in Job 38:4 are not speaking of angels nor humans.... LOL.

we suggest you examine that scripture again, and pay close attention to " the morning stars sang together". we'll give you a clue to the answer here, metaphor........

That's what I've been saying. There's a class of life above angels called the sons of God who mated with humans and produced giants.

 

[101G]

That's what I've been saying. There's a class of life above angels called the sons of God who mated with humans and produced giants.

OK, Dave, let's give the true meaning of Job chapter 38, it's all a metaphor.

THIS IS GOING TO BE A BIT LONG, I'M COPYING IT FROM MY NOTES ON THE SUBJECT.
but right up front we will tell you who these "morning stars", and "sons of God", are, and prove it by the scriptures. they are the actual stars in heaven, and the sons of God here in Job 38 are the Sun and the Moon..... let's prove it.

Understand, and get the whole context. Job 38:4 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? 8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? 9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and

thick darkness a swaddlingband for it, 10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, 11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?”.

the Almighty, the creator of heaven, and earth is asking Job some question that Job cannot answer, or as a matter of fact no man can answer, nor any angle. but God has answered it already in Job 38:7 “When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”. Here is what most people say, see this prove that it was the angles. NO, NOT so fast. Question, who really are these “morning stars”, and the sons of God that sang, and shouted. Let’s see who and what they are.

Here, in Job 38, God almighty are using metaphors. Example, Job 38:4 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Job 38:5 "Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Job 38:6 "Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof”. We know that the earth has no foundation or corner stone. How do we know this? right in the same book of Job it states this, Job 26:7 "He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing”. God himself is what keep the earth where it is. Understand, God is giving metaphors to Job and us to understand what he did in creation, again, Job 38:8 "Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?”. We all know that there are no actual doors holding back the water of the seas, the almighty do that himself. But God is using metaphors to give Job and his friends understanding about creation. Now we will solve the “morning stars that sang together, and all the sons of God that shouted for joy?”. First the morning stars. Remember we said that the morning stars are the actual stars in the heavens. Let’s go to the book of James. Follow and understand.

James 1:17 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning”. The almighty is called the “Father” here in James, of lights, and lights here are plural, and is the Greek word, G5457 φῶς phos (fōs') n. which means luminousness. Now hold that thought and go to Thayer's Greek Definitions and or the blue letter bible online, and look up G3962 πατήρ pater, (Father)
- Transliteration: Pater
- Phonetic: pat-ayr'
- Definition:
1. generator or male ancestor
a. either the nearest ancestor: father of the corporeal nature, natural fathers, both parents.
THIS IS WHAT MOST PEOPLE THINK WHEN THEY HEAR THE WORD “FATHER”.

but we are interested in the 3rd definition, and here it is, listen.
3. God is called the Father
a. of the stars, the heavenly luminaries, because he is their creator, upholder, ruler

God is the Father of the “STARS”, and the heavenly luminaries. Yes, the literal stars in the sky. google the word stars, please add the “s” to the end of stars, for Job said, morning “stars” not morning “star”. A star is a luminous sphere of plasma held together by its own gravity. The nearest star to Earth is our Sun .... are you following so far?.. Many other stars are visible to the naked eye from Earth during the night, appearing as a multitude of fixed luminous points in the sky due to their immense distance from Earth. Again, the stars are the actual stars in the heavens. Now, go to dictionary.com, or the free dictionary, or any dictionary and look up luminaries in the plural, a celestial body, as the sun or moon. uh o, ....

Now let’s see this sun and moon and the actual stars and what they did in Job 38:7. Remember the Almighty said that they sang and shouted for joy. Let’s see this metaphor clearly. Psalms 148:1 "Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights. Verse 2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts. 3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light. 4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens. 5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created”. Now what do the word praise mean here? It is the Hebrew word, H1984 הָלַל halal (haw-lal') v. which can be translated as “sing”, or “shine”. See the stars, the sun and the moon sang or praised God AT CREATION by shining their lights.

but the verse also said, that they "shouted for joy". ok, no problem, Psalms 65:13 "The pastures are clothed with flocks; the valleys also are covered over with corn; they shout for joy, they also sing”. The pastures, and valleys also praising God when God give them their yield, Yes, how? by shouting for joy and singing. It’s all a metaphor. Do we now understand.

so no, in Job 38, it's neither angel, nor humans. just let the bible interpret it self instead of you.

Be blessed.

 

[Dave L]

OK, Dave, let's give the true meaning of Job chapter 38, it's all a metaphor.

THIS IS GOING TO BE A BIT LONG, I'M COPYING IT FROM MY NOTES ON THE SUBJECT.
but right up front we will tell you who these "morning stars", and "sons of God", are, and prove it by the scriptures. they are the actual stars in heaven, and the sons of God here in Job 38 are the Sun and the Moon..... let's prove it.

Understand, and get the whole context. Job 38:4 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? 8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? 9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and

thick darkness a swaddlingband for it, 10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, 11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?”.

the Almighty, the creator of heaven, and earth is asking Job some question that Job cannot answer, or as a matter of fact no man can answer, nor any angle. but God has answered it already in Job 38:7 “When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”. Here is what most people say, see this prove that it was the angles. NO, NOT so fast. Question, who really are these “morning stars”, and the sons of God that sang, and shouted. Let’s see who and what they are.

Here, in Job 38, God almighty are using metaphors. Example, Job 38:4 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Job 38:5 "Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Job 38:6 "Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof”. We know that the earth has no foundation or corner stone. How do we know this? right in the same book of Job it states this, Job 26:7 "He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing”. God himself is what keep the earth where it is. Understand, God is giving metaphors to Job and us to understand what he did in creation, again, Job 38:8 "Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?”. We all know that there are no actual doors holding back the water of the seas, the almighty do that himself. But God is using metaphors to give Job and his friends understanding about creation. Now we will solve the “morning stars that sang together, and all the sons of God that shouted for joy?”. First the morning stars. Remember we said that the morning stars are the actual stars in the heavens. Let’s go to the book of James. Follow and understand.

James 1:17 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning”. The almighty is called the “Father” here in James, of lights, and lights here are plural, and is the Greek word, G5457 φῶς phos (fōs') n. which means luminousness. Now hold that thought and go to Thayer's Greek Definitions and or the blue letter bible online, and look up G3962 πατήρ pater, (Father)
- Transliteration: Pater
- Phonetic: pat-ayr'
- Definition:
1. generator or male ancestor
a. either the nearest ancestor: father of the corporeal nature, natural fathers, both parents.
THIS IS WHAT MOST PEOPLE THINK WHEN THEY HEAR THE WORD “FATHER”.

but we are interested in the 3rd definition, and here it is, listen.
3. God is called the Father
a. of the stars, the heavenly luminaries, because he is their creator, upholder, ruler

God is the Father of the “STARS”, and the heavenly luminaries. Yes, the literal stars in the sky. google the word stars, please add the “s” to the end of stars, for Job said, morning “stars” not morning “star”. A star is a luminous sphere of plasma held together by its own gravity. The nearest star to Earth is our Sun .... are you following so far?.. Many other stars are visible to the naked eye from Earth during the night, appearing as a multitude of fixed luminous points in the sky due to their immense distance from Earth. Again, the stars are the actual stars in the heavens. Now, go to dictionary.com, or the free dictionary, or any dictionary and look up luminaries in the plural, a celestial body, as the sun or moon. uh o, ....

Now let’s see this sun and moon and the actual stars and what they did in Job 38:7. Remember the Almighty said that they sang and shouted for joy. Let’s see this metaphor clearly. Psalms 148:1 "Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights. Verse 2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts. 3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light. 4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens. 5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created”. Now what do the word praise mean here? It is the Hebrew word, H1984 הָלַל halal (haw-lal') v. which can be translated as “sing”, or “shine”. See the stars, the sun and the moon sang or praised God AT CREATION by shining their lights.

but the verse also said, that they "shouted for joy". ok, no problem, Psalms 65:13 "The pastures are clothed with flocks; the valleys also are covered over with corn; they shout for joy, they also sing”. The pastures, and valleys also praising God when God give them their yield, Yes, how? by shouting for joy and singing. It’s all a metaphor. Do we now understand.

so no, in Job 38, it's neither angel, nor humans. just let the bible interpret it self instead of you.

Be blessed.

We still have the problem with the sons of God mating with humans and giants resulting from it. Where did demons come from? If not from those nephthalim that died?

 

[Episkopos]

Right now there are only three entities. 1 God who is the Spirit. 2. angels who are spirits. 3. Man who is flesh, but soon to be glorified. the NEW CREATURE.

so 1. being and 2 creatures.

anything else, I'll leave it up to you...

Angels can take human form. Some have visited us at times. Abraham entertained angels...as did Lot. They are more powerful than we are. The corruption of the earth came about by angels infiltrating on earth "illegally." The sin of Adam opened the door to this "invasion" of rebellious angels...now called demons.

What did they bring?

What is now called human nature. Envy, strife, ambition....violence. All the things that caused the rebellion in heaven...were brought to earth and were absorbed into this creation. So the outer man was deeply influenced by the nature of the earth in that condition. The strong now prey on the weak....just as the stronger angels preyed on the weaker humans.

The Nephilim were giants...in Hebrew this means "fallen ones." These are fallen angels. So then we can understand the spirit of this world.

Jesus came to set us free from the bondage of the outer man and the sin that is in the world. He came to rescue the inner man who is created in the image of God.

 

[CoreIssue]

What are demons?

Read Pre Adamic.
Commentaries by CoreIssue

There were nephthalim long after the flood. Goliath was one.

Angels are neither male nor female, not flesh and they cannot reproduce.

 

[101G]

We still have the problem with the sons of God mating with humans and giants resulting from it. Where did demons come from? If not from those nephthalim that died?

The Nephilim were giants...in Hebrew this means "fallen ones." These are fallen angels. So then we can understand the spirit of this world.

Let's answer the question on these "Nephilim" and "giants" here in the bible.

Mighty men are the nephilim.

Copying from my notes, and without going into any in depth study, I'll make this one short and to the point.
Maybe you didn't hear, because you didn't read. Genesis 6:4 "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown".

and Mighty Men is translated right in the verse, H1368 גִּבּוֹר gibbowr (ghib-bore') adj.
גִּבֹּר gibbor (ghib-bore') [shortened]
1. powerful.
2. (by implication) a warrior, tyrant.
[intensive from the same as H1397]
KJV: champion, chief, X excel, giant, man, mighty (man, one), strong (man), valiant man.

the KJV can translaty this word "Mighty Man" as Champion, (see above) and who is one of the bibles well know Champion who was a giant?, let the bible speak.

1 Samuel 17:4 "And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span".

and six cubit an a span Goliath was only 9 feet and 9 inches tall.

Genesis 6 said these Nephilim/Giants H5307 נָפַל naphal "BECAME" known as "Mighty Men", H1368 גִּבּוֹר gibbowr (ghib-bore') adj.
גִּבֹּר gibbor (ghib-bore') [shortened]
1. powerful.
2. (by implication) a warrior, tyrant.

it's all there in the SAME verse.and king David had an Army of Mighty Men who was regular HUMAN MEN that was powerful warrior.

see, a "Mighty Man" known as a Nephilim dose not always mean in "height" . it can mean a STRONG MAN, a VALIANT MAN, or just a man. again look at the definition above.

king David, and some of him men was MIGHTY MEN who killed a lot of other men.

as said some was tall and some was not. listen,

The catalogue of David's mighty men,

2 Samuel 23:8 read through to the end of the chapter.

but notice 2 Samuel 23:18 "And Abishai, the brother of Joab, the son of Zeruiah, was chief among three. And he lifted up his spear against three hundred, and slew them, and had the name among three.

Here, the "NAME" is the Hebrew word, H8034 שֵׁם shem (shame) n-m.
1. an appellation, as a mark or memorial of individuality.
2. (by implication) honor, authority, character.
[a primitive word (perhaps rather from H7760 through the idea of definite and conspicuous position)]
KJV: + base, (in-)fame(-ous), named(-d), renown, report.
Root(s): H7760

did one see how it could be translated in the KJV? ..... "renown" just as in Genesis 6:4 "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown".

there it is "renown" and theses men had HUMAN PARENTS.

The TERM "Giants" became "Mighty Men". the term "Giants" here is H5303 נְפִיל nphiyl (nef-eel') n-m. which means nephilim
נְפִל nphil (nef-eel')
(properly) a feller, i.e. a bully or tyrant.
[from H5307]
KJV: giant.

and this same word is used in Numbers 13:33 "And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight".

here the term "Giants"/nephilim is associated with the sons of Anak which can be trace back to HAM. a son of Noah.

HUMAN, MAN.

PS i'm going to be out for a few, but we can pick this up later

 

[Dave L]

Let's answer the question on these "Nephilim" and "giants" here in the bible.

Mighty men are the nephilim.

Copying from my notes, and without going into any in depth study, I'll make this one short and to the point.
Maybe you didn't hear, because you didn't read. Genesis 6:4 "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown".

and Mighty Men is translated right in the verse, H1368 גִּבּוֹר gibbowr (ghib-bore') adj.
גִּבֹּר gibbor (ghib-bore') [shortened]
1. powerful.
2. (by implication) a warrior, tyrant.
[intensive from the same as H1397]
KJV: champion, chief, X excel, giant, man, mighty (man, one), strong (man), valiant man.

the KJV can translaty this word "Mighty Man" as Champion, (see above) and who is one of the bibles well know Champion who was a giant?, let the bible speak.

1 Samuel 17:4 "And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span".

and six cubit an a span Goliath was only 9 feet and 9 inches tall.

Genesis 6 said these Nephilim/Giants H5307 נָפַל naphal "BECAME" known as "Mighty Men", H1368 גִּבּוֹר gibbowr (ghib-bore') adj.
גִּבֹּר gibbor (ghib-bore') [shortened]
1. powerful.
2. (by implication) a warrior, tyrant.

it's all there in the SAME verse.and king David had an Army of Mighty Men who was regular HUMAN MEN that was powerful warrior.

see, a "Mighty Man" known as a Nephilim dose not always mean in "height" . it can mean a STRONG MAN, a VALIANT MAN, or just a man. again look at the definition above.

king David, and some of him men was MIGHTY MEN who killed a lot of other men.

as said some was tall and some was not. listen,

The catalogue of David's mighty men,

2 Samuel 23:8 read through to the end of the chapter.

but notice 2 Samuel 23:18 "And Abishai, the brother of Joab, the son of Zeruiah, was chief among three. And he lifted up his spear against three hundred, and slew them, and had the name among three.

Here, the "NAME" is the Hebrew word, H8034 שֵׁם shem (shame) n-m.
1. an appellation, as a mark or memorial of individuality.
2. (by implication) honor, authority, character.
[a primitive word (perhaps rather from H7760 through the idea of definite and conspicuous position)]
KJV: + base, (in-)fame(-ous), named(-d), renown, report.
Root(s): H7760

did one see how it could be translated in the KJV? ..... "renown" just as in Genesis 6:4 "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown".

there it is "renown" and theses men had HUMAN PARENTS.

The TERM "Giants" became "Mighty Men". the term "Giants" here is H5303 נְפִיל nphiyl (nef-eel') n-m. which means nephilim
נְפִל nphil (nef-eel')
(properly) a feller, i.e. a bully or tyrant.
[from H5307]
KJV: giant.

and this same word is used in Numbers 13:33 "And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight".

here the term "Giants"/nephilim is associated with the sons of Anak which can be trace back to HAM. a son of Noah.

HUMAN, MAN.

PS i'm going to be out for a few, but we can pick this up later

But, Christians marrying non Christians and having kids do produce giants. Lab tests prove it.

 

[CoreIssue]

But, Christians marrying non Christians and having kids do produce giants. Lab tests prove it.

 

[Helen]

Adam was first indeed. But there were people in the earth apart from Eden.

Is that where the "Cave men" came from then?
I thought they were pre-this creation...along with the Dinosaurs.. but maybe they were here but outside the Garden.

But, if so why? What was their purpose ? Why had God created them?
ie..either before this creation or before the Garden?

I have no understanding on them at all, or where they fit.

 

[Helen]

But, Christians marrying non Christians and having kids do produce giants. Lab tests prove it.

Oh come on Dave...I don't see too many giants walking around.
And I know quite a few non-Christians who have married Christians.

 

[Dave L]

Oh come on Dave...I don't see too many giants walking around.
And I know quite a few non-Christians who have married Christians.

My keyboard goofed (not me).... It should say Christians having kids "don't" instead of "do"....produce giants