Do you believe Jesus has given you the Holy Spirit?

[Born_Again]

I do hope you understand that this refers to one's past sins at the time he is born again,
and does not refer to future sins.

Yea, I get that. That's what I was getting at. Our past sins were washed away but we have to work going forward.

 

[John Zain]

Our past sins were washed away but we have to work going forward.

Yes, but most Christians today excuse their sin by insisting that repentance is "works salvation".

IMO, obeying God has nothing to do with works, good works, good deeds, and etc.
But, it IS part of holding up our end of the new covenant.

 

[Born_Again]

Yes, but most Christians today excuse their sin by insisting that repentance is "works salvation".

IMO, obeying God has nothing to do with works, good works, good deeds, and etc.
But, it IS part of holding up our end of the new covenant.

I agree. You have love, praise, and I find it good to pretty much let Him take the wheel. All too often do we go to Christ when tribulation hits. We should have the same amount of faith and praise in everything we do no matter how big or small the problem is if there is a trial at all.

 

[FHII]

Actually, Hebrews 10 is referring to a specific sin...the sin of rejecting Jesus. If you look at the context you will see that is clearly the case.


Nothing in the context here suggests that someone who says a single harsh word in frustration or tells a single lie is forever condemned. The verses both BEFORE and AFTER the verse you are quoting clearly are talking about those who waver from the truth and someone who sets aside the covenant by which they were bought and tramples the cross in rejection of Christ after accepting it.

In my posts I said it was neglecting the assembling (meeting together). I still hold to that, but I can see your point about it rejecting Jesus.

 

[williemac]

Yea, I get that. That's what I was getting at. Our past sins were washed away but we have to work going forward.

I have addressed this passage in the past, but have a hard time convincing some people to really examine the text. What Paul is doing in Rom.3:24-27 is making a comparison between the previous covenant and this one. In vs.25, he speaks of God's "forbearance" which has to do with patience. God had patience with man in looking ahead to the cross. Paul did not say anything about forgiving past sins. The language he used was different. He said that God 'passed over' (not forgive) the sins previously committed....IN HIS FORBEARANCE....VS.26..."to demonstrate AT THE PRESENT TIME His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus".

I frankly tire of those who willingly ignore the wording in that passage and make it mean that the forgiveness offered at Calvary is only a down payment in forgiving only the sin prior to the point of the new birth, but not any sin after that point. This is in no way what Paul was getting at. He was speaking of two time frames, the one before Calvary and the one after, which he called " the present time". He was speaking of God's attitude before the sacrifice of Jesus, one of forbearance, and His glory and righteousness because of Calvary, in that it is God who justifies those who have faith in His Son.
John in 1John 2:1 refers to what God does when a believer sins. The Son steps in as our advocate before the Father. Again, this is how and why Jesus could make the incredible promise in John 5:24, that those who are of faith in Him WILL NOT COME UNDER JUDGMENT.

If only our past sins are forgiven then we will most certainly come under future judgment. This would render Jesus as a liar in John 5:24. I really think you should reconsider your understanding of what happened at Calvary. If only our past sins are forgiven then the blood of Jesus is rendered equal to and no mor powerful than the blood of bulls and goats, which had to be offered time and again for sin. Those sacrifices have been removed and are no longer offered. Therefore if a person who does not have Jesus as advocate sins, there is no more sacrifice. Heb. 10:39..." But we are not of those who draw back to perdition (in unbelief) but of those who BELIEVE TO THE SAVING OF THE SOUL".

In the habit of quoting things out of context (Heb.10:26), people forget that where there remission (removal) of these, there is no longer an offering for sin (Heb.10:18). This is based on the promise found in the previous verse that states the covenant is based on a promise " their sins and lawless deeds, I will remember no more". By your standard, God has a short memory. Heb.10:14.." FOR BY ONE SACRIFICE HE HAS PERFECTED FOREVER THOSE WHO ARE BEING SANCTIFIED" (by faith). vs. 12..." BUT THIS MAN, AFTER HE HAD OFFERED ONE SACRIFICE FOR SINS FOREVER, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD" (AS OUR ADVOCATE). Our sins have been removed by way of our old man being crucified with Christ.

If you insist that we must not sin in order to maintain our standing with God, you place us right back under the system of law, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. However, we are not under law, but under grace. Make no mistake, we do not have a license to sin. A license is basically permission. There has never been any such thing, nor ever will be. But the wonderful thing God did for us is that for those who accept the sacrifice of His Son, the consequences and wages of sin are placed upon Jesus on our behalf. It is a false doctrine that seeks to remove Him from the cross if a believer sins. This leaves no room for chastening, but only judgment, condemnation and death.

 

[FHII]

Yep, Williemac! Amen! It's the whole point Paul (or whomever) was making in the first 1/3 of Hebrews 10. I don't understand how those folks who believe Jesus' sacrifice only covers past sins. The chapter clearly shows that's what the blood of bulls and goats did, and then offers a contrast.

 

[Johnlove]

I have addressed this passage in the past, but have a hard time convincing some people to really examine the text. What Paul is doing in Rom.3:24-27 is making a comparison between the previous covenant and this one. In vs.25, he speaks of God's "forbearance" which has to do with patience. God had patience with man in looking ahead to the cross. Paul did not say anything about forgiving past sins. The language he used was different. He said that God 'passed over' (not forgive) the sins previously committed....IN HIS FORBEARANCE....VS.26..."to demonstrate AT THE PRESENT TIME His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus".

I frankly tire of those who willingly ignore the wording in that passage and make it mean that the forgiveness offered at Calvary is only a down payment in forgiving only the sin prior to the point of the new birth, but not any sin after that point. This is in no way what Paul was getting at. He was speaking of two time frames, the one before Calvary and the one after, which he called " the present time". He was speaking of God's attitude before the sacrifice of Jesus, one of forbearance, and His glory and righteousness because of Calvary, in that it is God who justifies those who have faith in His Son.
John in 1John 2:1 refers to what God does when a believer sins. The Son steps in as our advocate before the Father. Again, this is how and why Jesus could make the incredible promise in John 5:24, that those who are of faith in Him WILL NOT COME UNDER JUDGMENT.

If only our past sins are forgiven then we will most certainly come under future judgment. This would render Jesus as a liar in John 5:24. I really think you should reconsider your understanding of what happened at Calvary. If only our past sins are forgiven then the blood of Jesus is rendered equal to and no mor powerful than the blood of bulls and goats, which had to be offered time and again for sin. Those sacrifices have been removed and are no longer offered. Therefore if a person who does not have Jesus as advocate sins, there is no more sacrifice. Heb. 10:39..." But we are not of those who draw back to perdition (in unbelief) but of those who BELIEVE TO THE SAVING OF THE SOUL".

In the habit of quoting things out of context (Heb.10:26), people forget that where there remission (removal) of these, there is no longer an offering for sin (Heb.10:18). This is based on the promise found in the previous verse that states the covenant is based on a promise " their sins and lawless deeds, I will remember no more". By your standard, God has a short memory. Heb.10:14.." FOR BY ONE SACRIFICE HE HAS PERFECTED FOREVER THOSE WHO ARE BEING SANCTIFIED" (by faith). vs. 12..." BUT THIS MAN, AFTER HE HAD OFFERED ONE SACRIFICE FOR SINS FOREVER, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD" (AS OUR ADVOCATE). Our sins have been removed by way of our old man being crucified with Christ.

If you insist that we must not sin in order to maintain our standing with God, you place us right back under the system of law, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. However, we are not under law, but under grace. Make no mistake, we do not have a license to sin. A license is basically permission. There has never been any such thing, nor ever will be. But the wonderful thing God did for us is that for those who accept the sacrifice of His Son, the consequences and wages of sin are placed upon Jesus on our behalf. It is a false doctrine that seeks to remove Him from the cross if a believer sins. This leaves no room for chastening, but only judgment, condemnation and death.

[SIZE=16pt]Read who Jesus said would enter the kingdom of Heaven.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Notice the people who Jesus was talking to were those who had been given the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Those people were not living God’s will, and he told them they would not enter into heaven.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Now read who Paul said would not enter Heaven.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 Corinthians 6:9-19) “You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Now ask yourself, why would God need to become man if he wanted sinners to live with him forever? If God wanted to live with sinners, he did not need to come hear to defeat Satan/sin.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work” [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Notice John tells us that Jesus came to destroy sin. [/SIZE]

Well, either someone was dressed up like Jesus ... or if it was Jesus, you misunderstood Him.

1 John 1:7--2:1
"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.
And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

Christians can be overcomers by confessing/repenting of their sins,
by which they are totally cleansed with the precious blood of Jesus!

[SIZE=14pt]Read the scripture below, and learn something.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt](1 John 1: 8-10) “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]and his word has no place in our lives.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars. [/SIZE]

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless? Could they then be liars if they say they are sinless?

John later says:

[SIZE=14pt](1 John 3:3-9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]seen Him or known Him[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]. [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]My children do not let anyone lead you astray’ to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy’ to lead a sinful life is to belong the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.” [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt](1 John 3:8) “[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]John told us those who did not know God sinned and asked forgiveness and were forgiven, but once a person comes to know God he or she will not sin.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Scripture goes on to say that if a person who does know God uses their free will to sin there is no [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]repentance[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] for that person. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt](Hebrews 10:26-31) “[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]. [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.” [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt](Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. [/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”[/SIZE]

 

[truthquest]

[SIZE=16pt]Love is a gift from God. To be able to love God is also a gift from God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]To love God one has to obey God. If one does not live all of God’s commandments he or she does not love God, and will not be able to truly love others.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Sinning is not living God’s Commandments. One who sins will never enter God’s kingdom in heaven. [/SIZE]

To love God also means that we love our brothers and sisters in Christ. If we don't love our brothers and sisters in Christ and condemn and curse them then we don't love God. 1John 4:20 If a man says, I love God, and hates his brother, he is a liar: for he that loves not his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? ....1John 2:9 Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates a brother or sister is still in the darkness.....John 13:35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

 

[Johnlove]

To love God also means that we love our brothers and sisters in Christ. If we don't love our brothers and sisters in Christ and condemn and curse them then we don't love God. 1John 4:20 If a man says, I love God, and hates his brother, he is a liar: for he that loves not his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? ....1John 2:9 Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates a brother or sister is still in the darkness.....John 13:35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

[SIZE=16pt]Telling one’s brothers and sisters the truth is truly loving them.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]One can only know the truth if he or she allows God to teach him or her.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]The greatest gift that has ever been given to me is to know God. My life’s work is a love ministry trying to give what God had given me to my brothers and sisters. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Letting one’s brothers, and sisters know that God will give them his Holy Spirit to teach them to know him is my work.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 Corinthians 2:10-13) “These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depts. Of everything, even the depths of God. After all, the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God.” [/SIZE]

 

[truthquest]

[SIZE=16pt]Telling one’s brothers and sisters the truth is truly loving them.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]One can only know the truth if he or she allows God to teach him or her.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]The greatest gift that has ever been given to me is to know God. My life’s work is a love ministry trying to give what God had given me to my brothers and sisters. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Letting one’s brothers, and sisters know that God will give them his Holy Spirit to teach them to know him is my work.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 Corinthians 2:10-13) “These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depts. Of everything, even the depths of God. After all, the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God.” [/SIZE]

Those scriptures mean nothing to you that I posted. Whose truth are you telling your brothers and sisters? It seems everything you say is all about you with little to no love in your words. You seem more concerned with being elevated in the eyes of men. You talk about how you are sinless and a prophet. How Jesus personally visits you and teaches you directly while telling others that this is the only way to be taught. And that if one is not taught that way then they aren't being taught by Holy Spirit, according to your "truth". Your statements are full of grandiosity.

 

[aspen]

Read who Jesus said would enter the kingdom of Heaven. (Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!” Notice the people who Jesus was talking to were those who had been given the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Those people were not living God’s will, and he told them they would not enter into heaven.

Jesus was talking about people who believed they were righteous because of their actions. They were the type of people who believed they were safe from damnation because of all the external standards they met - Jesus told them that their resume was not impressive because like Paul's description of a "clanging gong", these people placed their faith in their own identity (tradition) and their mechanical ability to follow the external rules, rather than the spirit of the law, which is loving outwardly.

So instead of crossing every "t" and doting every "i", we are called to stop trying to look good in front of other people and start following God by loving Him and our neighbors through humble service. He is pleased with a broken and contrite heart rather than the sacrificing of animals.....He is pleased with people who obey Him by through loving outwardly rather than those who believe no longer sinning by following all the external rules is going to get them on His right side.

I think it is remarkable that you decided to refer to this verse.....

Now read who Paul said would not enter Heaven.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) “You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.”

See but, this is where you are missing the point. All of those sinners in the list have at least one thing in common - the most important thing - they are all loving selfishly and therefore, living in their sin. People who continue to love selfishly will not enjoy an eternal relationship with God - basically, they will continue to remain in the same animal skin clothing God made for us in the Garden, which is their ego/false selves/"old man" - God refuses to spend eternity which a bunch of smarmy, fakers who cannot get past themselves - He knows our real selves and will not pretend or humor us by propping up our false selves for ever - can you blame Him? Claiming that you know longer sin when we all know you have not perfected loving God and others, makes us question how well you know yourself, which makes us question how much you are still hiding behind your false self. Don't worry, though - you are in good company here, but as fas as I can tell most others at least admit they are still apprentices to love, not masters.

Now ask yourself, why would God need to become man if he wanted sinners to live with him forever? If God wanted to live with sinners, he did not need to come hear to defeat Satan/sin.

Jesus was coming for us even if we never sinned. In fact, I suspect He was the Tree of Life in the Garden. He would have become man and He would have communed with us at our level. Unfortunately, we Fell away and He had to bring us back into relationship with God.

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”

Jesus was planning to come for us "before the foundations of the world" - and therefore, before the Fall. God does not make His plans in reaction to the devil or our sins! His creation is working around His plans.

Notice John tells us that Jesus came to destroy sin.
Read the scripture below, and learn something.

Yes, He came to destroy sin because that is what we needed - like sheep, we had lost our way and stepped off the narrow path because our ability to love outwardly had been broken - all we could do is love selfishly.

(1 John 1: 8-10) “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.” You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars.

Agreed

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless? Could they then be liars if they say they are sinless?

Um....perhaps in the same way a five year old might believe they are a Rhodes scholar after their first day of Kindergarten?

John later says: (1 John 3:3-9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray’ to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy’ to lead a sinful life is to belong the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

Yep, if you do not perfect loving outwardly, and unconditionally; you will never achieve salvation, which is not a destination - it is a perfect relationship with God as we were created to experience. How can this happen? Not by fooling ourselves it to believing reciting a few words, with "Jesus" at the beginning and "Amen" at the end, is going to magically transform us into perfect lovers of God and neighbor! Certainly not by following external rules, which were only signs pointing to salvation........nope, only through Christ's Justification through His decision to lay down His life for us (God's heart, in essence, broken for us) and the sanctification of the HS, which, by running the race to win (sacrifice and training), will we ever be redeemed into perfect lovers (no longer sinners).

Scripture goes on to say that if a person who does know God uses their free will to sin there is no repentance for that person.

Apart from Christ there is no salvation. Your understanding of free will is flawed.

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

Yeah? Yet I, a lowly sinner, but apprentice to love, treat my dog better than the God you are describing treats His people. You really think that God is going to give up His Son on the cross and then demand instant perfection from us? About as logical as investing a fortune on a race horse with a broken leg who has never won a race. Without His guidance and our willingness to be vulnerable, we will not be able to reach a perfect relationship with Him, but it will not be because of His unwillingness to love us or His commitment to our redemption! I think it is safe to say that God is in it to win it......

(Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

I think you might be confusing the dynamics of our relationship with God and the relationship between bacteria and antibiotics. God is not going to smite us because we get side tracked in this Fallen world - He is not giving up on us. If anyone can get us out of this mess we have gotten ourselves into, it is God. So make sure you take all your antibiotic or you might die of a resistant strain; but stop worrying about damnation. BTW, fear and love are incompatible because the ability to be vulnerable with an abuser is impossible.

Telling one’s brothers and sisters the truth is truly loving them.

One can only know the truth if he or she allows God to teach him or her.

The greatest gift that has ever been given to me is to know God. My life’s work is a love ministry trying to give what God had given me to my brothers and sisters.

Letting one’s brothers, and sisters know that God will give them his Holy Spirit to teach them to know him is my work.

(1 Corinthians 2:10-13) “These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depts. Of everything, even the depths of God. After all, the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God.”

Sorry John but if that were true all God would have had to do is give Adam and Eve a lesson in horticulture - oh wait, He did........and Yet His Son still had to lay down His life for us? So much for the idea that education solves every problem.....

 

[Wormwood]

Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. 13　Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, 14　I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15　Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. 16　Only let us hold true to what we have attained.

For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body.

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. 11　For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. How can there be "quarrels" among them if they are "brothers" in Christ? Surely if they are in Christ, they cant sin or quarrel!


"Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him."

The Bible is full of correction of Christians who "belong to him" about their sin, quarreling or misunderstandings. The Bible is clear that "if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father." The reason I write text in response to you Johnlove and not just quote Scriptures is because I am trying to show you the context of the Scriptures you are misquoting. I can quote any verse in the Bible and make it say whatever I want. However, if we look at the context of the Scriptures, we see what the author intended. The author never intended to say that if someone sins, they are not a Christian. The context of John's letter is quite clear on this...and you are ignoring it in spite of have a dozen people pointing it out to you.

 

[Johnlove]

Jesus was talking about people who believed they were righteous because of their actions. They were the type of people who believed they were safe from damnation because of all the external standards they met - Jesus told them that their resume was not impressive because like Paul's description of a "clanging gong", these people placed their faith in their own identity (tradition) and their mechanical ability to follow the external rules, rather than the spirit of the law, which is loving outwardly.

So instead of crossing every "t" and doting every "i", we are called to stop trying to look good in front of other people and start following God by loving Him and our neighbors through humble service. He is pleased with a broken and contrite heart rather than the sacrificing of animals.....He is pleased with people who obey Him by through loving outwardly rather than those who believe no longer sinning by following all the external rules is going to get them on His right side.

I think it is remarkable that you decided to refer to this verse.....
[SIZE=16pt]When people can’t bear to see the truth, they make up a fictional story to make the truth say what they want.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]You have no scripture to confirm your fictional story. [/SIZE]

See but, this is where you are missing the point. All of those sinners in the list have at least one thing in common - the most important thing - they are all loving selfishly and therefore, living in their sin. People who continue to love selfishly will not enjoy an eternal relationship with God - basically, they will continue to remain in the same animal skin clothing God made for us in the Garden, which is their ego/false selves/"old man" - God refuses to spend eternity which a bunch of smarmy, fakers who cannot get past themselves - He knows our real selves and will not pretend or humor us by propping up our false selves for ever - can you blame Him? Claiming that you know longer sin when we all know you have not perfected loving God and others, makes us question how well you know yourself, which makes us question how much you are still hiding behind your false self. Don't worry, though - you are in good company here, but as fas as I can tell most others at least admit they are still apprentices to love, not masters.
[SIZE=16pt]Another fictional story with no truth in it.[/SIZE]

Jesus was coming for us even if we never sinned. In fact, I suspect He was the Tree of Life in the Garden. He would have become man and He would have communed with us at our level. Unfortunately, we Fell away and He had to bring us back into relationship with God.

[SIZE=16pt]Another fictional story with no truth in it.[/SIZE]

Jesus was planning to come for us "before the foundations of the world" - and therefore, before the Fall. God does not make His plans in reaction to the devil or our sins! His creation is working around His plans.
[SIZE=16pt]John say something different, who do you suppose Christians should believe? Should they believe Apostle John, or you?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt](1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work” [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 3:9) “No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt](1 John 2:6) “Whoever claims to remain in him must act as he acted.”[/SIZE]

Yes, He came to destroy sin because that is what we needed - like sheep, we had lost our way and stepped off the narrow path because our ability to love outwardly had been broken - all we could do is love selfishly.

Agreed

Um....perhaps in the same way a five year old might believe they are a Rhodes scholar after their first day of Kindergarten?

Yep, if you do not perfect loving outwardly, and unconditionally; you will never achieve salvation, which is not a destination - it is a perfect relationship with God as we were created to experience. How can this happen? Not by fooling ourselves it to believing reciting a few words, with "Jesus" at the beginning and "Amen" at the end, is going to magically transform us into perfect lovers of God and neighbor! Certainly not by following external rules, which were only signs pointing to salvation........nope, only through Christ's Justification through His decision to lay down His life for us (God's heart, in essence, broken for us) and the sanctification of the HS, which, by running the race to win (sacrifice and training), will we ever be redeemed into perfect lovers (no longer sinners).

[SIZE=16pt]There is only one way to love, and that is for one to be given the grace from God. A loving person will first live God’s Word, and living God’s Word means one will be loving. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]If one does not live God’s Word, then he or she are of the devil. The devil can’t love, and lies saying he does. So do those who sin, and say they love, they are lying just like the devil.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work” [/SIZE]

Apart from Christ there is no salvation. Your understanding of free will is flawed.

Yeah? Yet I, a lowly sinner, but apprentice to love, treat my dog better than the God you are describing treats His people. You really think that God is going to give up His Son on the cross and then demand instant perfection from us? About as logical as investing a fortune on a race horse with a broken leg who has never won a race. Without His guidance and our willingness to be vulnerable, we will not be able to reach a perfect relationship with Him, but it will not be because of His unwillingness to love us or His commitment to our redemption! I think it is safe to say that God is in it to win it......
[SIZE=16pt]I don’t think that. I know God means for us to be perfect, and if one is not he or she will never enter heaven.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Your human logic is false, and you have no scripture to confirm such logic.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]([/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]Matthew 5:48) “Even the pagans do as much, do they not? You must therefore be perfect just as your heavenly Father is perfect.” [/SIZE]

I think you might be confusing the dynamics of our relationship with God and the relationship between bacteria and antibiotics. God is not going to smite us because we get side tracked in this Fallen world - He is not giving up on us. If anyone can get us out of this mess we have gotten ourselves into, it is God. So make sure you take all your antibiotic or you might die of a resistant strain; but stop worrying about damnation. BTW, fear and love are incompatible because the ability to be vulnerable with an abuser is impossible.
[SIZE=16pt]Notice it is what one does that determines if one goes to Hell or to Heaven.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Matthew 25:31-46) “‘When the Son of man comes in his glory, escorted by all the angels, then he will take his seat on his throne of glory. All nations will be assembled before him and he will separate people one from another as the shepherd separates sheep from goats. He will place the sheep on his right hand and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right hand, "Come, you whom my Father has blessed, take as your heritage the kingdom prepared for you since the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you made me welcome, lacking clothes and you clothed me, sick and you visited me, in prison and you came to see me." Then the upright will say to him in reply, "Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and make you welcome, lacking clothes and clothe you? When did we find you sick or in prison and go to see you?" And the King will answer, "In truth I tell you, in so far as you did this to one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did it to me." Then he will say to those on his left hand, "Go away from me, with your curse upon you, to the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you never gave me food, I was thirsty and you never gave me anything to drink, I was a stranger and you never made me welcome, lacking clothes and you never clothed me, sick and in prison and you never visited me." Then it will be their turn to ask, "Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty, a stranger or lacking clothes, sick or in prison, and did not come to your help?" Then he will answer, "In truth I tell you, in so far as you neglected to do this to one of the least of these, you neglected to do it to me." And they will go away to eternal punishment, and the upright to eternal life.'”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]A sinner has never seen God nor does he or she know him. So one who is in God does not sin.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 Corinthians 6:9-19) “You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Paul says a sinner will never inherit the kingdom of God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Now I have given you more scripture you can rewrite, and put with the rest of your fiction stories. [/SIZE]

Sorry John but if that were true all God would have had to do is give Adam and Eve a lesson in horticulture - oh wait, He did........and Yet His Son still had to lay down His life for us? So much for the idea that education solves every problem.....


[SIZE=16pt]Again your human false logic has no truth, and scripture will not confirm false logic. [/SIZE]

 

[aspen]

Hey John.....you apparently cannot recognize scripture without the man made reference number attached to the sentences. Just because you are referencing scripture using non-inspired numbers does not mean your exegesis is sound. And just because you have never thought about scripture past the concrete meaning of the English translation doesn't protect you from 'not getting it'.

Perfect love is perfection, period. I suggest you get to surrendering before God.

 

[Johnlove]

Hey John.....you apparently cannot recognize scripture without the man made reference number attached to the sentences. Just because you are referencing scripture using non-inspired numbers does not mean your exegesis is sound. And just because you have never thought about scripture past the concrete meaning of the English translation doesn't protect you from 'not getting it'.

Perfect love is perfection, period. I suggest you get to surrendering before God.

[SIZE=16pt]You need to get out of your fantasy world of fiction, and allow God to bring you to the truth.[/SIZE]

 

[Born_Again]

We are starting to nose dive from the OP. I would like to get back on track. Just sayn.

 

[Johnlove]

We are starting to nose dive from the OP. I would like to get back on track. Just sayn.

[SIZE=16pt]Yes, but no. One can’t have the Holy Spirit if one continues to sin.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]People just don’t understand that a Christian walks as Jesus walked. Jesus obeyed the Father in Heaven, and we are given the Holy Spirit to be able to obey the Father in Heaven. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]That is what a Christian is. A Christian is a follower of Jesus.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]One can’t have the Holy Spirit if one does not walk as Jesus walked.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]The Holy Spirit will make sure a person does what God demands.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]If one does not obey the Holy Spirit then the Holy Spirit will no longer stay with such a person.[/SIZE]

 

[truthquest]

Johnlove, there is only one mentioned in the scriptures who was without sin and why do you think that is so?. Heb. 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.15 For we have not a high priest who cannot be touched with the feeling of our weaknesses; but was in all points tempted like we are, yet without sin.16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.....And yet, you say that you are without sin and out of all those mentioned in the scriptures, only Jesus was without sin. ....Only Jesus.

 

[aspen]

Do you believe Jesus has given you the Holy Spirit?
If so why?
What evidence do you have that you have the Holy Spirit if you believe you do?

The HS is not a possession. God sent the HS to all who surrender to Christ and to all who obey God by loving God and their neighbor. I know the HS is working in my heart by teaching me to love perfectly - I have hope that He will finish a good work and transform me into a perfect lover. amen

 

[Born_Again]

The HS is not a possession. God sent the HS to all who surrender to Christ and to all who obey God by loving God and their neighbor. I know the HS is working in my heart by teaching me to love perfectly - I have hope that He will finish a good work and transform me into a perfect lover. amen

Okay, that was good. HAHAHA!! Safe approach without semantics LOL