Do you belong to "the [true] Church" (1 Tim 3:15)?, if so, how do you prove it?

[justbyfaith]

If any of us is truly a born again Christian, then we agree on this essential:

1Co 15:1, Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2, By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3, For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4, And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

[mjrhealth]

Does anyone recognise the irony thus far revealed in this thread? One seventh day Adventist who quoted the Bible to identify the specific characteristics of God's church in the last days
KJV Revelation 12
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

A church which is not a building, but a body of believers united in spirit mind/heart faith, ... One baptism, one faith, etc... Against which come all of you who are the most disunited group of people on the planet. Not any two if you would agree on any of the 5 or 6 major doctrines of Christendom. You disagree on salvation, you disagree whether one needs to belong to any church at all, d some of you independent, some mainstream, some refuse to belong to any church because of the confusion there!!!o you all disagree on the state of eternal torment, on the second coming, on the nature of sin, even on the nature of God. Some of you accept even the "Commander in chief prophecy" regarding Trump without any reference to Christian life and faith except it come through political power, but reject Ellen White who constantly upheld Christ, repentance and holy living! Seriously. You are all confused and disjointed when it comes to doctrine.. you all admit to this. Yet does that not shout loud and clear a warning that you all may be a part of Babylon which literally reflects that spirit of confusion you all suffer from? And then you all join together and agree all of a sudden that to be confused and disunited over doctrine is okay so long as it isn't SDA!!! SMH.
And then, too make war against the one church that uphold the law of God and the spirit of prophecy which is the testimony of Jesus. You all really do need to take stock of where you sit.

There is only one true church,

Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

But Christs

1Pe_2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

the one you stand in opposition too.

 

[brakelite]

If any of us is truly a born again Christian, then we agree on this essential:

1Co 15:1, Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2, By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3, For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4, And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Actually I disagree with you. Not all agree with the quoted verses. Half of the members of this forum would like to do away with the second half of verse two. Especially that little word if.

 

[brakelite]

the one you stand in opposition too.

Yet you claim to belong to that despite not being in harmony with those verses @ReChoired posted from Revelation that pinpoint the true characteristics of that group. They keep the commandments and have the spirit of prophecy. You deny both.

 

[mjrhealth]

Yet you claim to belong to that despite not being in harmony with those verses @ReChoired posted from Revelation that pinpoint the true characteristics of that group. They keep the commandments and have the spirit of prophecy. You deny both.

What has teh law to do with Jesus, why do you insist on putting stumbling blocks before men, You do not keep the law, so why is it you insist everyone else does. What part of , Your flesh cannot save you, neither can the deeds of the flesh".

Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Rom_10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

 

[justbyfaith]

Actually I disagree with you. Not all agree with the quoted verses. Half of the members of this forum would like to do away with the second half of verse two. Especially that little word if.

All that must be agreed to, in order to be born again, is verses 3 and 4 (in 1 Corinthians 15).

And that "if" is actually a "most assuredly will be" for those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5) and have the fear of the LORD (Psalms 19:9, Jeremiah 32:38-40);

who have a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) which is the faith defined in John 6:47; as opposed to a nominal, shallow, or lukewarm faith; which is the faith defined in Luke 8:13.

You will get more out of what I am saying if you also look up the verses.

 

[brakelite]

All that must be agreed to, in order to be born again, is verses 3 and 4 (in 1 Corinthians 15).

And that "if" is actually a "most assuredly will be" for those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5) and have the fear of the LORD (Psalms 19:9, Jeremiah 32:38-40);

who have a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) which is the faith defined in John 6:47; as opposed to a nominal, shallow, or lukewarm faith; which is the faith defined in Luke 8:13.

You will get more out of what I am saying if you also look up the verses.

I wasnt saying that I disagreed with your scripture quote, I most assuredly do. I was just saying not everyone here does... Which shows how confused people are.
Here is a synopsis of the adventist belief regards salvation taken from their web site.

Disharmony erupted when a once-perfect being abused his God-given freedom. Satan “the accuser” chose self-centeredness and slander over truth and love. Satan claimed that God is not fair, that He’s harsh and controlling, depriving others of what they deserve.

Satan’s deception convinced a third of heaven’s angels, whom God expelled from heaven. Satan claimed rulership of our planet when he swindled its first couple, Adam and Eve, making them doubt God’s trustworthiness and love. That first sin distorted God’s image in us, twisting the world in on itself and threatening its self-destruction. The universe watched to see God’s response to Satan’s accusations.

The “great controversy” between good and evil over God’s character continues to rage, but Jesus, God’s own Son, settled its central question two thousand years ago when He died for humanity.

How strong is God’s love? Jesus’ self-sacrificing death showed that God is willing to pay the incalculable cost of our sins. His sacrifice unmasked the true horror of sin and made clear that God can be trusted. Why did Jesus’ death make such a difference? Because Jesus lived the perfect life that we’ve each failed to achieve and he died the death we each deserve.

The result: We can live for Him, now and forever. Jesus’ sacrifice reconciles us to a perfect God while transforming our hearts. The Holy Spirit shows us our need for God and assures us that we are saved and forgiven. The Spirit writes a new script in our hearts, empowering us to live in freedom, service and joy. God treats us as if we had never sinned, never doubted, never gone our own way.

The same Jesus who subdued demons during His life declared victory over all evil powers at His death. Jesus’ resurrection guarantees that death itself will die. Our new life in Jesus frees us from the fear of death and the shame of our past.

As we connect with Jesus, the Holy Spirit calms our hearts and transforms our outlook. Our spiritual life grows as we talk with God, ponder His Word, share our faith and worship through music and fellowship.

What has teh law to do with Jesus

The law reflects His character and righteousness. You reject the law, you reject Him.

, why do you insist on putting stumbling blocks before men

How can anyone be stumbling of they are obeying?

You do not keep the law,

Satan usually accuses men that they cannot keep the law... Here you are taking that a step further by saying I'm not. Mmmm.

so why is it you insist everyone else does

Why do you insist that people shouldn't? I say we should obey God' s commandments. You say they aren't commandments at all. So what are they? Revelation 12:17 and 14:12 says the final church are commandment keepers.

What part of , Your flesh cannot save you, neither can the deeds of the flesh".

Who here is suggesting that by keeping the commandments we are saved????? Please quote.

 

[mjrhealth]

I wasnt saying that I disagreed with your scripture quote, I most assuredly do. I was just saying not everyone here does... Which shows how confused people are.
Here is a synopsis of the adventist belief regards salvation taken from their web site.

The law reflects His character and righteousness. You reject the law, you reject Him.

Why do you insist that people shouldn't? I say we should obey God' s commandments. You say they aren't commandments at all. So what are they? Revelation 12:17 and 14:12 says the final church are commandment keepers.


Who here is suggesting that by keeping the commandments we are saved????? Please quote.

So you you say you keep the law. if it does not save you than why, is it to boast as all SDA do.

We are not like all these other sinners, no you are worse if there could be such a thing.

Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Are you going to insist is standing against Christ and Grace.

Gal_6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

Its all the flesh, are you Jesus???

The law reflects His character and righteousness. You reject the law, you reject Him.

No it does not, God is not the law, God is love , Jesus is love, Love is His character, Grace reflects His character because Grace is just that flexible, the law is not. In that the law only ever brought death. Christ came so that we may have life, so how can death by the law be the character of God, you defame Him.

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Holy Spirit shows us our need for God and assures us that we are saved and forgiven.

In that discourse it did not mention the primary reason why we are forgiven...through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

Satan usually accuses men that they cannot keep the law... Here you are taking that a step further by saying I'm not. Mmmm.

See Galatians 6:13. It was not satan, but Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, who said that even those who are circumcised don't keep the law. These are the same people who are trying to get everyone else circumcised, as though it meant salvation.

If those who were sticklers for keeping the law, and who made keeping the law their one goal in life, could not keep it, what makes you think that you can or even do keep the law?

 

[justbyfaith]

Also, consider that sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4); but that we need to take the following into account:

Gal 3:22, But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

 

[mjrhealth]

Also, consider that sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4); but that we need to take the following into account:

Actually it is not because,

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Than along came Moses,

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

So untill Moses there was no law, yet sin still abound as did death, there was just no judgement untill the law, because without the law there can be no judgement.

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

And so without the law, Christ could never have fulfill the requirements of the law and we would never have had salvation.

And so we need Christ to lead us into the truth because HE is the truth and in Him there is no lie

 

[quietthinker]

Does anyone recognise the irony thus far revealed in this thread? One seventh day Adventist who quoted the Bible to identify the specific characteristics of God's church in the last days
KJV Revelation 12
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

A church which is not a building, but a body of believers united in spirit mind/heart faith, ... One baptism, one faith, etc... Against which come all of you who are the most disunited group of people on the planet. Not any two if you would agree on any of the 5 or 6 major doctrines of Christendom. You disagree on salvation, you disagree whether one needs to belong to any church at all, d some of you independent, some mainstream, some refuse to belong to any church because of the confusion there!!!o you all disagree on the state of eternal torment, on the second coming, on the nature of sin, even on the nature of God. Some of you accept even the "Commander in chief prophecy" regarding Trump without any reference to Christian life and faith except it come through political power, but reject Ellen White who constantly upheld Christ, repentance and holy living! Seriously. You are all confused and disjointed when it comes to doctrine.. you all admit to this. Yet does that not shout loud and clear a warning that you all may be a part of Babylon which literally reflects that spirit of confusion you all suffer from? And then you all join together and agree all of a sudden that to be confused and disunited over doctrine is okay so long as it isn't SDA!!! SMH.
And then, too make war against the one church that uphold the law of God and the spirit of prophecy which is the testimony of Jesus. You all really do need to take stock of where you sit.

Well said brakelite! ....I see it his way, the message is going out so that none will have an excuse.....every man and woman at each juncture are casting their vote in their attitude towards God's Law and slowly or not so slowly but surely they are preparing for the time when their irreversible allegiance is determined regardless of the many words made.

 

[justbyfaith]

Actually it is not

1Jo 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Do you deny that this is inspired holy scripture?

 

[justbyfaith]

Well said brakelite! ....I see it his way, the message is going out so that none will have an excuse.....every man and woman at each juncture are casting their vote in their attitude towards God's Law and slowly or not so slowly but surely they are preparing for the time when their irreversible allegiance is determined in spite of the many words made.

Here is the real message:

Rom 3:23, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24, Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

The reality is, no one is justified through keeping the law:

Rom 3:20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Gal 2:16, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:10, For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

 

[justbyfaith]

Gal 5:19, Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22, But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Notice that the works of the flesh are all things that if practiced would be in violation of the law.

There is no law against walking according to the fruit of the Spirit (see also Galatians 5:16-17).

Rom 3:21, But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22, Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24, Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Heb 7:12, For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

This change of law is in that we are no longer required to obey a set of do's and don'ts; but rather we now have a relationship with Jesus Christ, even the Holy Ghost; and do obey His promptings for obedience. As born again believers in Christ, we no longer walk according to the flesh. For the element of sin has been relegated to the flesh:

Rom 8:3, For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Therefore, under the changing of the law, sin is no longer defined as the transgression of a set of do's and don'ts (although that definition still applies) but it is defined as walking according to the flesh.

If you walk according to the flesh, you sin (and are transgressing the law somehow, 1 John 3:4). But if you walk according to the Spirit, you do not sin.

Therefore, our focus as believers has changed...

We no longer have to pay attention to the requirement as a means of obedience to the Lord. Instead, we look to Christ Himself, trusting and relying on His Holy Spirit to live His life in us and through us (Galatians 2:20); and in this we will not be violating any true law of scripture that the Lord wants us to obey in today's world.

Now the scripture does say,

Pro 28:9, He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

We continue to look to the law as a means for our continuing to realize that we are sinners; for it is needful that we understand this; and those who do not think that they are sinners any longer are most often in spiritual danger.

Rom 3:20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Conclusion: as believers in Jesus Christ, our salvation is no longer based on keeping a set of do's and don'ts; but on a relationship with a Person. In placing our trust in Christ and looking to Him for guidance and to live His life in us and through us, we will be able to live the Christian life and will not be in violation of any true law of the Old or New Testaments.

I would add, that we are justified freely as sinners by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ; and that therefore if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and we are also forgiven of past' present, and future sin(s)...Romans 4:8, Romans 8:38-39, Hebrews 9:12.

And therefore, our obedience to God is not based on fear of divine retribution, but on a love for Jesus Christ. We love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19); and we love much because we have been forgiven much (Luke 7:36-50). The love of the Lord has been shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5).

And this love, again, is the fulfilling of the law within us (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4)...which love is not in word or in tongue only; but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18).

 

[mjrhealth]

1Jo 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Do you deny that this is inspired holy scripture?

No are you so sure it was, because it completely contradicts what I posted, so to throw it back at you, was the"scripture" I quoted inspired by the holy Spirit. See what happens how men make God a liar and the author of confusion, which He is not.

 

[justbyfaith]

No are you so sure it was,

Yes, I know that 1 John 3:4 is holy scripture...

And therefore if you think that the scriptures you posted are in contradiction to it, I think that your interpretation of the scriptures you have posted is to be held in question.

For I gave no commentary on my scripture; but you gave commentary on yours.

So then, which is to be more accepted? The holy scripture itself? Or the holy scripture with the commentary of man added to it?

 

[mjrhealth]

Yes, I know that 1 John 3:4 is holy scripture...

And therefore if you think that the scriptures you posted are in contradiction to it, I think that your interpretation of the scriptures you have posted is to be held in question.

Only men interpret scripture, and the bible is not Holy. if it was when you picked it up you in your sinful nature would perish. Yet here men sit and call Jesus God and the Holy Spirit liars... It doesnt say what you need it to say, does it.

Go read it for yourself.

 

[justbyfaith]

@mjrhealth,

see post #135 (Do you belong to "the [true] Church" (1 Tim 3:15)?, if so, how do you prove it?).

 

[justbyfaith]

and the bible is not Holy.

Seriously? You have got to be kidding me.

I think that it has to be an essential of the faith to understand that the Bible is holy and inspired by God.