Do you really think you live up to the righteousness of Christ?

[Robbie]

It says that He who believes in Him has overcome... that what has over come is our faith... it doesn't say to be a good enough person is what overcomes... and that's because it's Him that overcame... not us... that's why it's His Glory... His Power... forever and ever...

Get out of here with your self glory...

 

[Prentis]

Yes. Through him we overcome. It is through him, but it is us. Not that it is any glory to us! Of course not! But glory to him, because he can take wretches, and patiently teach them in love, and if they learn, they can be like him!

To believe means to obey also, if you believe what a man tells you, you will obey him. And those who obey him do overcome, beacause he saves them and protects them.

 

[Robbie]

So it is us but it's no glory for us? haha... No dude... it's not us... and that's why it's no glory for us... it's all Him... and that's why it's all His glory...

I can't believe you're basically saying that you're saving yourself but God's gonna take the glory for it... so rotten...

 

[Prentis]

God saves us, but we must be faithful... Otherwise everyone is saved! ... Or God has favorites! But both these things are not true.

 

[Robbie]

No... everyone can be saved and that is the will of the Lord... but salvation can be rejected... and why do people reject salvation?

Because they reject that it's by Him alone ... which is where you're headed...

If you continue in the direction you're headed you'll either one day get to a place where you say to yourself, "I'm good enough to be saved" and in that you'll be condemning yourself because you'll be trying to stand before God in your own righteousness and in so doing reject the salvation of God that's in His Son's blood.

Or else you'll get to a place where you can't accept the FREE gift of salvation because you won't feel worthy to receive it and this is also because you're making it about you instead of Him and by doing so you'll be rejecting His salvation.

In either case it's pride... because you won't die to yourself... because you won't see yourself already hung on that cross... and see yourself and your sins like that every single day...

And you're gonna be right about not being worth for salvation because you're not worthy nor will you ever be apart from His blood alone... it's only because He's worthy that you'll ever be saved... as it's His perfect love and the blood He shed on the cross that saves us.

It's finished with Him... to reject that is to reject salvation...

 

[Prentis]

God bless you, Robbie.

 

[Robbie]

Not trying to harsh on you Prentis but as long as you're telling me that I have no assurance in the blood of Jesus Christ for my salvation... you're doing anything but blessing me man... I'm only taking the time to talk to you about this stuff because I care...

 

[Prentis]

Not trying to harsh on you Prentis but as long as you're telling me that I have no assurance in the blood of Jesus Christ for my salvation... you're doing anything but blessing me man... I'm only taking the time to talk to you about this stuff because I care...

Thank you for caring brother, I am taking the time because I care for you too

If it weren't true, why would Jesus say that the servant who doesn't bear fruit is cut-off? Robbie, Christ's calling is not about our feeling of security, it is about his glory and giving our life for it.

 

[Robbie]

So once again you claim His glory is about you giving your life... that's not baring fruit bud... that's baring pride and ego... and that's because you're not abiding in Him... you're abiding in yourself... and that's the opposite of dying on the cross...

I'm abiding in him... as I keep telling you that without Him I'm nothing... and by His blood I am assured... I'm abiding fully in Him for salvation... it's all Him... that's the fruit... the fruit is righteousness... not the righteousness that comes by works of the Law that is just filthy rags... but the righteousness we have in His blood... the only righteous fruit is Him... and as we spread the truth of Him we are baring fruit.

His glory has nothing to do with what you do... His glory is who He is... and we who have died with Him on the cross no longer try and glorify ourselves... we just preach Christ and Him crucified... and then the glory of His resurrection... when He conquered the enemy known as death.

So you're mistaken...

 

[Prentis]

God bless you, brother!

 

[brionne]

to save the argument going on, you are both (robbie and prentis) correct... you are just presenting it from two perspectives.

We are judged according to two things

1. righteousness. “If your righteousness [or virtue] does not abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter into the kingdom of the heavens.” (Matt. 5:20)
Abraham was viewed righteous because of his righteous acts toward God.

2. faith. Abraham was also faithful, and his faith moved him to acts of righteousness.
“Show me your faith apart from the works, and I shall show you my faith by my works. Indeed, as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.” (James 2:18, 26)

we need to express both....prentis is focusing on the righteousness and robbie is focusing on the faith. Come together and you are both correct. Now shake hands,

group hug

 

[Robbie]

nope... I won't add anything to Christ... it's His blood that covers my sins... nothing else...

and don't get me wrong... I love Prentis... which is why I'm taking time out of my day to talk to him bout this...

I'm just really not gonna pretend like I'm happy about it...

just being real...

It's deadly stuff...

 

[brionne]

nope... I won't add anything to Christ... it's His blood that covers my sins... nothing else...

and don't get me wrong... I love Prentis... which is why I'm taking time out of my day to talk to him bout this...

I'm just really not gonna pretend like I'm happy about it...

just being real...

It's deadly stuff...

I agree, Jesus blood is the means by which a christian can approach God to receive forgiveness of sins. We can have a righteous standing before God ONLY because of Jesus blood.

But we must never forget that one who has approached God, must also work in harmony with Gods spirit. That means we must behave in a worthy manner of being Christs disciples. If we just think that my sins are forgiven and now i dont need to do anything, then that would be wrong thinking.

God wants us to live righteously...that means we have a responsibility to behave in a certain way. Jesus blood is for forgiveness of sins... it wasnt given so that we could live in sin forever more... we have to work hard at eliminating sin from our life by behaving in the way God approves.

 

[Robbie]

So what is the level of self righteousness you think you're going to add to the blood of Christ in order ot be saved?

I mean... unless your just talking about God's work in our life which is apart from salvation... and which is amazing and beautiful... but has nothing to do with salvation...

 

[jiggyfly]

to save the argument going on, you are both (robbie and prentis) correct... you are just presenting it from two perspectives.

We are judged according to two things

1. righteousness. “If your righteousness [or virtue] does not abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter into the kingdom of the heavens.” (Matt. 5:20)
Abraham was viewed righteous because of his righteous acts toward God.

2. faith. Abraham was also faithful, and his faith moved him to acts of righteousness.
“Show me your faith apart from the works, and I shall show you my faith by my works. Indeed, as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.” (James 2:18, 26)

we need to express both....prentis is focusing on the righteousness and robbie is focusing on the faith. Come together and you are both correct. Now shake hands,

group hug

Sorry Pegg but the scriptures disagree.
1 Abraham was, humanly speaking, the founder of our Jewish nation. What did he discover about being made right with God?2 If his good deeds had made him acceptable to God, he would have had something to boast about. But that was not God’s way.3 For the Scriptures tell us, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” 4 When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned.5 But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners.
Romans 4:1-5 (NLT)

19 For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ,20 and through him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of Christ’s blood on the cross.
21 This includes you who were once far away from God. You were his enemies, separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions.22 Yet now he has reconciled you to himself through the death of Christ in his physical body. As a result, he has brought you into his own presence, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault.
Col 1:19-22 (NLT)

 

[FHII]

Everyone is self righteous except for you, Robbie... Is that correct?

 

[Robbie]

Never said that but I'm used to you twisting my words in order to accuse... I expect you to follow the pattern till the pattern is broken... so no surprises...

Everyone is self righteous who tries to achieve righteousness by self...

We stop being self righteous when we realize true righteousness can be achieved through Christ's sacrifice alone...

 

[Prentis]

Sorry Pegg but the scriptures disagree.
1 Abraham was, humanly speaking, the founder of our Jewish nation. What did he discover about being made right with God?2 If his good deeds had made him acceptable to God, he would have had something to boast about. But that was not God’s way.3 For the Scriptures tell us, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” 4 When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned.5 But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners.
Romans 4:1-5 (NLT)

19 For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ,20 and through him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of Christ’s blood on the cross.
21 This includes you who were once far away from God. You were his enemies, separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions.22 Yet now he has reconciled you to himself through the death of Christ in his physical body. As a result, he has brought you into his own presence, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault.
Col 1:19-22 (NLT)

Careful though! Are you using those scriptures to deny others?

Yes, Christ has paid the price and brought us before God with all our sins gone. But that means we need to be faithfull now. A woman is about to be stoned, and Pharisees ask who should throw the first stone. Christ says 'the one who has never sinned'. They leave. He says, being the one who has never sinned, 'I don't condemn you either' freeing her of her PAST sins, then says 'Go, and sin no more'.

We have been given much, and we are to use that to learn much.

Faith without works is dead. And we were called to good works. If it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me, doing works prepared in advance by the Father, how can that be saving by the flesh? It is all of God, but we must walk in it and be faithful.

[sup]12[/sup] Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.

Jesus has laid hold of something for us, but that is only half the truth, the other half is that we must lay hold of it. He has made it possible, and it is only possible through him. But now that it is possible, what excuse can we have?

[sup]13[/sup] Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, [sup]14[/sup] I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Paul himself did not think he had attained. Yet based on a few verses we build a Christianity that we have already attained and it's all over.

 

[Robbie]

What he was leaving behind Prentis... was thinking he was going to be made righteous by His own efforts... by keeping the law...

For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection...

 

[Prentis]

That's right, he gave it up with the hope that through Christ, he could walk in the same righteousness and power. And that's what I'm trying to say.

We weren't redeemed just to be redeemed, but for the very glory of God. It is actually an honor that we can be conformed to Christ! We must trust him and cooperate, and become like Him. He can change us! If we are faithful with however much we were given, we will be rewarded accordingly. But if we are not... We will be cast out!

Did you know the word for 'faith' and 'faithfulness' in Greek is one word (pistis)? The original meaning is synonymous. Leaving faith is faithful.

Christ has made a way for us to move forward.