Do You Teach Jesus Changed the Law of Moses? Pt 1

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jeremiah1five

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Matthew 5:17
17 Think not that I am come
to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Jesus is emphatic. Any change in the Law would destroy the Law. And He
is right. Any change in the Law of Moses would certainly destroy the Law of
Moses because it was, as we say, written in stone. One cannot take an eraser and
make deletions, or cross something out and make a footnote, or even add
something else to what is already written by the finger of God. But as
Christians, some of you change the Law of Moses and even teach that Jesus
changed the Law of Moses Himself in your interpretation of these verses:

Matthew 5:38-39
38 Ye have heard that it hath
been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but
whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other
also.

The statement of Jesus saying "Ye have heard it hath been said..."
is referencing an instruction in the Law of Moses. Here is the original
command:

Exodus 21:24-25
24 Eye for eye, tooth for
tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25
Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

This is called the Law of Retribution. Here, Jesus Christ brings up this law
and continues in His discourse...

Matthew 5:39
39 But I say unto you, That
ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to
him the other also.

Obviously, there is a confrontation taking place between two people. Jesus
adds, "But I say unto you..." which may appear to be a change, but take a closer
look. It was Christ who gave the Law to Moses at Mount Sinai to give to the
people. And since it is Christ Himself who is speaking in Matthew 5 without a
prophet, who usually would say, "Thus saith the LORD," It is the LORD Himself
who is speaking and it takes the form of the first person: "But I say unto
you," is Christ, who is The Prophet like unto Moses, using language in the First
Person. But what does it mean to "turn the other cheek? There's a little
symbolism and imagery involved so take a read:

Two people in confrontation will be standing directly in front of each other.
For person 1 to strike the right cheek of person 2 requires the use of the open
palm of the left hand to strike the right cheek of person 2. In the Bible, the
left side and left-handedness play a distinctively negative role. The word
"sinister" derives from the Latin term that means “on the left side.”

The "right" or "right side" finds representation of "righteousness" and
"honor" or "blessing." The conotations are positive opposite of "left." So, here
is person 1 using his left palm to strike the right cheek of person 2. This
strike is "sinister" in action as well as motivation. Why do I say it is the
left palm and not the back of the left hand? Mainly, because the left palm is
the way slaves were struck by their masters for punishment and disciplinary
action. It is a degrading way to be struck. The back of the hand is the way
nobles or "gentlemen" were struck in physical disputes. Jesus Himself during His
capture and appearance before the high priest was struck in a disrespectful way
with the palm of the hand by one of the officers:

John 18:22
22 And when he had thus
spoken, one of the officers which stood by struck Jesus with the palm of his
hand, saying, Answerest thou the high priest so?

Person 1 has unrighteously struck person 2 on the right cheek. The left arm is now at the
left side of person 2 and the back of the hand is now facing the left cheek of
person 2. Christ's instruction to "turn to him the other also" is is in keeping
with the Law of Retribution of strike for strike. In other words Christ is
saying that a person that unrighteously strikes you on the right cheek must now
bring the arm in reverse arc and strike you with the back of the hand as a
noble and a social equal. It is eye for eye, tooth for a tooth, and cheek for a
cheek. Christ does not change the Law of Retribution. He fulfills the Law. He establishes the Law.
 

afaithfulone4u

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The commandments were condensed to 2 which if done correctly, fulfill all 10 original commandments written in THE STONE/Christ/The Rock... and the Word WAS God.
The Hebrews were not able to keep the law because they could only look upon it, but we have a better covenant for we have been given the Helper being the Spirit of life who guides us into all truth so that we can be overcomers of the lusts of the flesh WHEN we are led by the Spirit and not the flesh. God is using His Spirit and His Word to OPERATE in us to create us in the image of Christ being the ONE NEW MAN.

Heb 6:20-7:21
20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Hebrews 7
7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
21(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
KJV
 

Arnie Manitoba

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jeremiah1five

Next time we meet how about I slap you on both cheeks
Afterwords you can let me know how you feel about it

If you wanted to play out some more OT laws we could do that too.
We might need a big pile of stones though.
Depending on how carried away we get with our legalism

Or we could take the more gentle route and convert to orthodox Judaism
We could even strap little prayer boxes on our foreheads.

Just kidding
sort of
 

jeremiah1five

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Condensed into two? I know the passage Jesus spoke about:

Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I just don't agree Jesus was "condensing" 10 Commandments into "two."

There are still 593 Commandments that need to be addressed. What did Jesus do about these?





Arnie Manitoba said:
jeremiah1five

Next time we meet how about I slap you on both cheeks
Afterwords you can let me know how you feel about it

If you wanted to play out some more OT laws we could do that too.
We might need a big pile of stones though.
Depending on how carried away we get with our legalism

Or we could take the more gentle route and convert to orthodox Judaism
We could even strap little prayer boxes on our foreheads.

Just kidding
sort of
Do you consider the Holy Spirit relating to our hearts as "legalism?" His instruction is "legalism?"
What is Christianity but completed Judaism?
Of course the Law is still in effect. However, we do not kill a lamb every year in obedience to the Ceremonial part of the Law, but the Law was never given to Gentiles, and I suspect being Canadian is that you are Gentile. But if you are member of Covenant then you would be a Jew inwardly, and as spiritual Israel, the Law applies to the Covenant member. How else does the Holy Spirit lead, guide, teach, reprove, correct, and instruct God's people?
 

Arnie Manitoba

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jeremiah1five

You need to re-read the parts of the NT which discusses .... life by the spirit .... verses .... life under the law.

You are trying to make Jesus' early conversations about Judaism apply to modern day Gentile North Americans

It will not work .... unless you get rid of Christ and start to live under the law .... but then you would be a Jew.

Also ..... read the book of Hebrews again and it will help you get it straight.

Best wishes with your reading.

Arnie M.

ps: and if you think Israel is something living internally inside you ... you must have a belly as big as Texas :)
 

jeremiah1five

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This is difficult.

Arnie Manitoba said:
jeremiah1five

You need to re-read the parts of the NT which discusses .... life by the spirit .... verses .... life under the law.
I believe I have a good grasp on these Scriptures.



You are trying to make Jesus' early conversations about Judaism apply to modern day Gentile North Americans

It will not work .... unless you get rid of Christ and start to live under the law .... but then you would be a Jew.
No, God is doing that. I only recognize it.


Also ..... read the book of Hebrews again and it will help you get it straight.


Best wishes with your reading.

Arnie M.

ps: and if you think Israel is something living internally inside you ... you must have a belly as big as Texas :)
Saskahanna Hat Co.

Slowly I turned...
Inch by inch...
Step by step...

I see that you may not know because of your responses.....

In the Bible the Law is type and shadow of the Holy Spirit. He is the Law God will put in our inward parts:

Jeremiah 31:33
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

He is the guiding Person who applies Himself (the Law) to our conscience.

The Spirit of Truth uses the Word of Truth to teach and guide the child of Truth about the God is Truth.

We must know His Word in order to know His voice for He will not use any other means to express God (Himself) to us.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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jeremiah1five

A bit hard to figure out what you mean by ..... "God is doing that" ..... are you saying God is leading you toward a life free from the law ..... or a life under the law ??

Anyway .... the point Jesus was trying to make is that at his coming the law was not destroyed ..... it was fulfilled by him ..... He was the sacrifice for sin instead of the previous sacrifice of an animal on an altar.

under the law the animal sacrifice had to be done on a regular basis because men broke the law on a regular basis.

Right now the law does not exist ..... thus we cannot break it.
 

jeremiah1five

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Arnie Manitoba said:
jeremiah1five

A bit hard to figure out what you mean by ..... "God is doing that" ..... are you saying God is leading you toward a life free from the law ..... or a life under the law ??



God is leading and will make us all conform to His Law. His Law is the Holy Spirit in us.
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Anyway .... the point Jesus was trying to make is that at his coming the law was not destroyed ..... it was fulfilled by him ..... He was the sacrifice for sin instead of the previous sacrifice of an animal on an altar.
under the law the animal sacrifice had to be done on a regular basis because men broke the law on a regular basis.
Right now the law does not exist ..... thus we cannot break it.




If the Law does not exist, then you are saying God does not exist for God is the Law. The Law in the Old Testament was type and shadow of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Law God told Jeremiah and His Covenant people He was to put into our inward parts. Being in union with Christ, and Christ fulfilled the Law, we too, have fulfilled the Law. It is the Holy Spirit that applies the Law to our conscience. When Paul said "we are not under law," he was talking about that part of the Law that instructed in the sacrificial offering for sin, for Christ has died once and for all. There is still the Social and Moral Law that we are under for we must STILL have no other God's before us, we must STILL not bear false witness, etc.
As believers, when we "break" any part of the Law (which is breaking with the Holy Spirit in us), He speaks to our conscience and we "feel" His conviction or His pardon. He is the Law in our inward parts that we are under and shall eventually obey.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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I certainly agree that it is the Holy Spirit in us that should guide our lives ..... that is the christian model .

We should also keep in mind that one of the purposes of the law was to show that we could not always keep it properly ..... in other word it showed we are sinners.

It is at that moment we realize we need something else ....... the "something else" we need is a savior .... which of course has been fulfilled by Jesus

Notice the thing that upset Jesus about the Pharisees was ..... "they thought they were religiously wonderful" ...... they tried to portray they had no sin ...... thus they felt they didn't need a savior ..... thus they rejected Jesus.

We forget to remember that the Pharisees did indeed live very proper lives ... "under the law" ..... they did so probably better than anyone else ..... and they certainly could obey the law much better than any of us here on this forum.

In other words the Pharisee was not anti-law
He was anti-sin (thought he had none)

If anyone here wants to try living under the law .... feel free to do so ...... but you will have to outperform even the astutely religious Pharisees

If you never break even the tiniest law ..... you do not need a savior.

Good luck with that.
 

jeremiah1five

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Arnie Manitoba said:
I certainly agree that it is the Holy Spirit in us that should guide our lives ..... that is the christian model .

We should also keep in mind that one of the purposes of the law was to show that we could not always keep it properly ..... in other word it showed we are sinners.

It is at that moment we realize we need something else ....... the "something else" we need is a savior .... which of course has been fulfilled by Jesus

Notice the thing that upset Jesus about the Pharisees was ..... "they thought they were religiously wonderful" ...... they tried to portray they had no sin ...... thus they felt they didn't need a savior ..... thus they rejected Jesus.

We forget to remember that the Pharisees did indeed live very proper lives ... "under the law" ..... they did so probably better than anyone else ..... and they certainly could obey the law much better than any of us here on this forum.

In other words the Pharisee was not anti-law
He was anti-sin (thought he had none)

If anyone here wants to try living under the law .... feel free to do so ...... but you will have to outperform even the astutely religious Pharisees

If you never break even the tiniest law ..... you do not need a savior.

Good luck with that.
The Holy Spirit in us leads and guides the believer. You say it but you are not comprehending it fully. The Holy Spirit is the Law God promised He would put in our inward parts (Jer. 31:33). The Law and the Holy Spirit are one and the same.
The Law, and the Holy Spirit indeed have showed that we are sinners. Prior to the atonement Christ performed on Calvary the Holy Spirit was only with the believer, never in the believer. The Holy Spirit overshadowed the prophet, the priest, and the kings of Israel, never in them as the Holy Spirit now does today and since Pentecost. He is now in the believer (Jn. 14:17).

The conflict Jesus had with the religious leaders in Israel is manifested in this one thing. The religious leaders taught and understood the letter of the Law. Jesus taught the spirit of the Law. One more thing. There were three major religious orders in Israel at the time of His Advent: The Pharisee, the Sadducee, and the Essene. If Jesus was a Rabbi (Teacher) He would have had to originate from one of these three schools of thought. Based upon the things that Jesus taught, His teaching mostly aligned with Pharisaical thought (angels, marriage, resurrection, etc).

Living under the Law is not only possible for the believer, but he, as with Jesus and through Jesus, stands before God as having also fulfilled the Law. God now looks upon the believer as having fulfilled the Law because our Advocate and Substitute, Jesus Christ, has fulfilled the Law for us. And Him in us, and we in Him, and us in God is a reality that exists before God and we are perfect. This, is from God's perspective. When He sees us He does not see us as sinners, He sees us as a holy and righteous people having had all our sin paid for past, present, and future, atoned for by Christ. In Christ, we do not break even the "tiniest law."

I hope you can grasp this.