Doctrine vs. Social Justice

[aspen]

Personally. I think this is a false dichotomy, however, I have noticed that many Christians seem to have no problem with immersing themselves in the scriptures and applying their knowledge to apologetics and theological constructs - being scripturally literate is encouraged and admired. But what about serving the poor? The mere suggestion of helping others on this board has brought accusations of bragging - yet, any display of scriptural knowledge is commended.

Seems to me that Jesus focused His ministry on serving others - He did not call His disciples to 'know', but to 'do'. Now, I have a high regard for the Bible, but if it is not applied, it is worthless towards our sanctification.

What I have seen lately, is a fear and sometimes a loathing of institutional (church and government) programming for the poor and people in need. Am I wrong about this? If I am right, why is this happening? Why do Christians seem afraid of helping people in need in an institutional manner? And, why do Christians feel obligated to correct false doctrine or wayward Christians with doctrine, but only secretly serve people in need - as if it is something to be ashamed of?

I remember a thread that was started months ago about Mother Teresa - her life-long service has been called into question by some Christian people because of her lack / depth of scriptural knowledge or at least, her apparent inability to articulate what she believed in a theologically acceptable manner. The women committed her life to God through service and has been criticized by Christians! This seems really strange to me. In any case, please to not turn this thread into 'Why Mother Teresa is not a Christian II' If you want to discuss her in more detail you can dig up the old thread. I only brought her up as an example of doctrinal bias.

Ideally, I think we need to focus on both scriptural knowledge and social justice,

 

[brightmorningstar]

Sorry but this is liberal twaddle. A channel 4 program a few years ago by a liberal, Robert Beckford revealed social action is primarily being done by evangelical churches. (in fact what liberals call fundamnetalist - my words​

As has been pointed out to you already more than once, the gospel is both honouring God with our bodies and lives and serving others especially the materially poor and poor in spirit.​

It doesnt need humanistic liberalism to once again champion one at the expense of the other because that isnt the gospel.​

 

[bytheway]

Personally. I think this is a false dichotomy, however, I have noticed that many Christians seem to have no problem with immersing themselves in the scriptures and applying their knowledge to apologetics and theological constructs - being scripturally literate is encouraged and admired. But what about serving the poor? The mere suggestion of helping others on this board has brought accusations of bragging - yet, any display of scriptural knowledge is commended.

Seems to me that Jesus focused His ministry on serving others - He did not call His disciples to 'know', but to 'do'. Now, I have a high regard for the Bible, but if it is not applied, it is worthless towards our sanctification.

What I have seen lately, is a fear and sometimes a loathing of institutional (church and government) programming for the poor and people in need. Am I wrong about this? If I am right, why is this happening? Why do Christians seem afraid of helping people in need in an institutional manner? And, why do Christians feel obligated to correct false doctrine or wayward Christians with doctrine, but only secretly serve people in need - as if it is something to be ashamed of?

I remember a thread that was started months ago about Mother Teresa - her life-long service has been called into question by some Christian people because of her lack / depth of scriptural knowledge or at least, her apparent inability to articulate what she believed in a theologically acceptable manner. The women committed her life to God through service and has been criticized by Christians! This seems really strange to me. In any case, please to not turn this thread into 'Why Mother Teresa is not a Christian II' If you want to discuss her in more detail you can dig up the old thread. I only brought her up as an example of doctrinal bias.

Ideally, I think we need to focus on both scriptural knowledge and social justice,

God hates a mixture, He's into purity. Please don't sully the discussion with political mantras, scriptual knowledge rightly applied brings about Godly Justice. Jer.15:19 states seperate the pure form the vile. man's political infringment is vile to God.

 

[aspen]

Sorry but this is liberal twaddle. A channel 4 program a few years ago by a liberal, Robert Beckford revealed social action is primarily being done by evangelical churches. (in fact what liberals call fundamnetalist - my words​

As has been pointed out to you already more than once, the gospel is both honouring God with our bodies and lives and serving others especially the materially poor and poor in spirit.​

It doesnt need humanistic liberalism to once again champion one at the expense of the other because that isnt the gospel.​

Actually, the evangelicals I know, practice a good balance of scripture and the social gospel - I learn a lot from them about Jesus. Most of them grew up in Fundamentalist churches and have rejected the rigid, literalism that they found there and have started ministries in the town I live in - I work for one of them.

Nice job promoting that same old rigid mindset - everything outside your box is liberal twaddle, right? LOL

God hates a mixture, He's into purity. Please don't sully the discussion with political mantras, scriptual knowledge rightly applied brings about Godly Justice. Jer.15:19 states seperate the pure form the vile. man's political infringment is vile to God.

Feel free to not respond to this post, I will not twisted your arm with all my sully.

 

[IanLC]

The Pentecostal movement and stemming from its Holiness and Methodist roots have contributed a lot to up-building the communities that they are placed. Many of them hold deliverance and community build up services to help the community around them. Social reform and revivalism is one of the pillars of the Pentecostal Christian faith.

 

[aspen]

The Pentecostal movement and stemming from its Holiness and Methodist roots have contributed a lot to up-building the communities that they are placed. Many of them hold deliverance and community build up services to help the community around them. Social reform and revivalism is one of the pillars of the Pentecostal Christian faith.

I totally agree.

 

[IanLC]

I know my church holds a King's Table Banquet that gives free food, clothing, haircuts/ hair styling, and entertainment to the community around the city. We also hold a deliverance and prayer service after the community outreach banquet (it is not an formal event it takes place outside) for the people to get to know Jesus as their Lord and Savior and join the church if they want. We have the Senior Missionary Team, Junior Missionary Team, forming an Evangelistic team. My pastor was an evangelist in New York City and when we got her as pastor she still holds to that evangelistic side of her.

 

[aspen]

I know my church holds a King's Table Banquet that gives free food, clothing, haircuts/ hair styling, and entertainment to the community around the city. We also hold a deliverance and prayer service after the community outreach banquet (it is not an formal event it takes place outside) for the people to get to know Jesus as their Lord and Savior and join the church if they want. We have the Senior Missionary Team, Junior Missionary Team, forming an Evangelistic team. My pastor was an evangelist in New York City and when we got her as pastor she still holds to that evangelistic side of her.

Sounds great. The Evangelical Church I attend does a great job of supporting and shepherding the people who run local ministries - we have a medical clinic, kitchen, drop in center, adoption center, and a Christian organization that provides housing and funds for people in need - it is good to see that God is working in a relatively small city.

 

[IanLC]

That is

Sounds great. The Evangelical Church I attend does a great job of supporting and shepherding the people who run local ministries - we have a medical clinic, kitchen, drop in center, adoption center, and a Christian organization that provides housing and funds for people in need - it is good to see that God is working in a relatively small city.

That is wonderful! I love to see churches busy about the work of Christ. My church is progressing and growing towards more programs like that. We have an AA (Alcoholic Anonymous) Deliverance group and or creating and organizing more community Outreach pieces.

 

[aspen]

That is
That is wonderful! I love to see churches busy about the work of Christ. My church is progressing and growing towards more programs like that. We have an AA (Alcoholic Anonymous) Deliverance group and or creating and organizing more community Outreach pieces.

That is exciting!

 

[IanLC]

It is I wish more of churches with like mindsets in evangelism would work together in efforts for ministering to the wholistic man. But doctrine and beliefs keep us apart in Christ.

 

[aspen]

It is I wish more of churches with like mindsets in evangelism would work together in efforts for ministering to the wholistic man. But doctrine and beliefs keep us apart in Christ.

I think many are, but they are often criticized as 'emergent churches' by Reformed minded ministers.

 

[IanLC]

Yeah. Many of Our Leaders within the United Holy Church (Pentecostal-Holiness) mostly the older leaders want to keep that line between what they call the sanctified church and the unholy churches of mainline denominations. That halts a lot of progress many of our churches could be doing with other brethern of different denominations.

 

[aspen]

Yeah. Many of Our Leaders within the United Holy Church (Pentecostal-Holiness) mostly the older leaders want to keep that line between what they call the sanctified church and the unholy churches of mainline denominations. That halts a lot of progress many of our churches could be doing with other brethern of different denominations.

That mindset makes unity so difficult - I see it all the time in the Catholic Church. Sometimes I think my church wants to only unify with Anglicans and Orthodox...

 

[IanLC]

Yeah. Amongst Pentecostals we have such a tradition of being bashed and excommunicated by mainline denominations, we have in a since became internalized and fellowship with only those like us. For years the older saints would tell us that people thought you were crazy, mentally unstable, and a devil worshiper if you said you were Pentecostal. But aspen if you knew some of the church members I know especially the church mothers and sat down and talked with them you would see examples of women of faith and prayer. These women truly have the Holy Spirit and know the word of God. Being a Pentecostal is much more than just tongues and prophecy to me it is my relationship with Jesus. He saved me and filled me with Him and His word and Spirit. I am excited and overjoyed about that!

 

[Rach1370]

This is one of those subjects that gets sullied by sinful human mistakes and intent. A properly biblical gospel...is an outreaching one, as well as an inwardly nurturing one. Just think....sound doctrine is a necessity within God's Church, but the bible always encourages...if not demands...us to help the poor and needy. With both spiritual and physical help. It must be a 'both' thing, not an 'either/or'...because even if some of these poor people are lead to Christ through our help, what help is it really if they then fall in a serious pot hole due to faulty doctrine?
I'm sorry, but I need to stick my 'emergent church' two cents in here.... I think the new 'movements' in this area is one of the reasons why the above is becoming more of a problem. Take people like Rob Bell...Brian McLaren...They're all about helping people, getting the message out, becoming part of the community. All good things...are far as it goes. But dig into those men's doctrines, and you'll suddenly realise that their 'help' is not leading people to Jesus. They may say 'Jesus'...but their doctrine is not one the Bible teaches and it in no way glorifies God by obeying His word. Now, I don't know if emergent 'churches' such as these came about because orthodox churches are not filling that particular need very well...and it would behove us 'reformed' folk to get out there more...but the emergent churches are a great example that just because you care for others doesn't mean you are saved. We must remember that Jesus said if we had to choose, it was more important to feed them the gospel...a person's body may fade away and die...but their spirit won't. If we love them...genuinely, we will care for their spirit. Both, ideally, but not all of us have the resources to do both.

 

[aspen]

This is one of those subjects that gets sullied by sinful human mistakes and intent. A properly biblical gospel...is an outreaching one, as well as an inwardly nurturing one. Just think....sound doctrine is a necessity within God's Church, but the bible always encourages...if not demands...us to help the poor and needy. With both spiritual and physical help. It must be a 'both' thing, not an 'either/or'...because even if some of these poor people are lead to Christ through our help, what help is it really if they then fall in a serious pot hole due to faulty doctrine?
I'm sorry, but I need to stick my 'emergent church' two cents in here.... I think the new 'movements' in this area is one of the reasons why the above is becoming more of a problem. Take people like Rob Bell...Brian McLaren...They're all about helping people, getting the message out, becoming part of the community. All good things...are far as it goes. But dig into those men's doctrines, and you'll suddenly realise that their 'help' is not leading people to Jesus. They may say 'Jesus'...but their doctrine is not one the Bible teaches and it in no way glorifies God by obeying His word. Now, I don't know if emergent 'churches' such as these came about because orthodox churches are not filling that particular need very well...and it would behove us 'reformed' folk to get out there more...but the emergent churches are a great example that just because you care for others doesn't mean you are saved. We must remember that Jesus said if we had to choose, it was more important to feed them the gospel...a person's body may fade away and die...but their spirit won't. If we love them...genuinely, we will care for their spirit. Both, ideally, but not all of us have the resources to do both.

I have heard all kinds of warnings about Rob Bell, but I have never looked into his theology, myself. I agree that there has to be a balance.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Aspen2,

Actually, the evangelicals I know,

Well I am talking about Christians rather than labelled examples of who might not be Christians but merely call themselves Christians.

Why do Christians seem afraid of helping people in need in an institutional manner?

They are not affraid and they do help people in need in all kinds of ways.

And, why do Christians feel obligated to correct false doctrine or wayward Christians with doctrine, but only secretly serve people in need - as if it is something to be ashamed of?

Correcting each other and teaching is part of Christian fellowship, it is an obligation in a way. 2 Tim 3:16 for example, as you have been taught before, it is for equipping for all good works.

Nice job promoting that same old rigid mindset - everything outside your box is liberal twaddle, right? LOL

On the contrary everything outside the gospel is potentially liberal twaddle.

Rach,

All good things...are far as it goes. But dig into those men's doctrines, and you'll suddenly realise that their 'help' is not leading people to Jesus. They may say 'Jesus'...but their doctrine is not one the Bible teaches and it in no way glorifies God by obeying His word. Now, I don't know if emergent 'churches' such as these came about because orthodox churches are not filling that particular need very well...and it would behove us 'reformed' folk to get out there more...but the emergent churches are a great example that just because you care for others doesn't mean you are saved. We must remember that Jesus said if we had to choose, it was more important to feed them the gospel...a person's body may fade away and die...but their spirit won't. If we love them...genuinely, we will care for their spirit. Both, ideally, but not all of us have the resources to do both.

Well said. Spot on
I think emergent churches have come about because people are sucked into the deception of the world and want to make the gospel appeal rather than convict.