Doctrines of Grace
- Thread starter Iconoclast
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Gen1:31...all God created was"very good"
Eccl7:29...men having fallen in Adam became alienated from God.
Men reproduce,sinners make other sinners.
God in perfect wisdom and knowledge determined to Elect a multitude of guilty sinners to become the objects of His mercy.
He did not have to save any.
That He has elected a great multitude that no man can number is a loving mercy.
So you don't believe that God is the creator of a newborn child? And instead the title of "creator" goes to their human mom & dad?
Parents are designed to reproduce.
God created man with that ability
God gives the spirit/soul of a person.
God's oversight is described in Psalm 139...
God knows each person before they are formed.
God created man with that ability
God gives the spirit/soul of a person.
God's oversight is described in Psalm 139...
God knows each person before they are formed.
Whom is the creator of a newborn baby?
God or mortals?
Cutting to the chase: my HUGE problem with the idea these ideas of "election", is that I find that they ignore that God created ALL. God created those whom were martyred for their faith in God AND those that did the martyring. I"m not a Calvinist: I believe firmly that those whom were martyred choose faith in God, and those that murdered them choose Satan. God created both people, and they each made a choice. God forces no man to Heaven or Hell.
@Iconoclast, if you would like to tell me why you believe God created all of the people in Sodom and their eternal fate, I would love to hear it. But let's not deny that God alone is the creator. Pitful humans are not.
Did God regret creating man? Yes
Does the OP'S theology support God's predestination doctrine that all humans were already destined for good or evil? NO
What scriptures support the belief that man was given free will and must choose who he will serve?....
Genesis 6 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁵ And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
⁶ And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
⁷ And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Last edited:
Adam's fall put man in a default position of hating God.God is going to punish all sin.
Men are born in Adam's image....sinners.
The sodomites were sinners in line for the wrath of God.
Do not attempt to blame God for mans sin.
The eternal destiny of all unsaved persons has already been determined.
If God did not elect a multitude of sinners , no one would be saved.
In post#1 point 3 answers your question.
God does not have regrets.
His Holy attributes make that impossible.
Vs 5 says the thoughts of men...WERE ONLY EVIL CONTINUALLY....that describes man's will as fallen and bound by sin..vs 8 describes why
Noah differed...Noah found Grace in the eyes of the Lord.
Unless man has the ability to choose, God is ENTIRELY and SOLELY for culpable EVERY sin.
Do you believe a person can choose good?
If not, then I'm sorry: God alone is culpable.
Do you perhaps have some scripture to explain what you mean?
God is never the author of sin.
3. He could foresee no moral goodness in fallen and corrupted men, as moving Him to elect them to everlasting happiness, Gen 6:5; Gen 8:21; Ps 5:9-10; Ps 14:1-4; Isa 59:1-15; Rom 1:21-32; Rom 3:10-19,23; Rom 5:12; Rom 8:7-8; Titus 3:3; Jer 13:23; Jer 17:9; Eph 2:1-3; Eph 4:17- 19; Job 14:4; Job 15:14,16; Matt 15:19.
Correct. They should be called "The Doctrines of Disgrace". It is a terrible shame that Christians who should have known better from Scripture twisted the Gospel and perverted the truth. At the same time there are many other doctrines in the Westminster Confession with which we can all agree.
I agreee that God is not the author of sin. Hence I must reject Systems of thought that result in God being the author of sin. Such as Calvinism.
You do not understand these doctrines but millions do. You cannot show why you suggest it is error, or disgrace, so just making such accusations is useless.
Give your best offer of correction Enoch, let's see what you bring to the table.
Last edited:
Sorry , but the confessions of faith are very clear on this;
Chapter 3: Of God's Decree
1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;
yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )
This is found in all responsible and consistent teaching of all the historic confessions.
You make the charge, you need to offer scriptural proof.
Your lack of understanding and carnal philosophy is no reason to disparage Christians who understand the doctrines of Grace.
Of God and His perfections;Thomas Boston
Thirdly, The next incommunicable attribute of God is unchangeableness.
God is immutable, that is, always the same, without any alteration.
Hence it is said, Jam. 1:17. 'With whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning,'
Mal. 3:6. 'I am the Lord, I change not.'
God makes changes upon the creatures, but is liable to no change himself.'
Though he alters his dispensations, yet not his nature; but, by one pure and constant act of his will and power, effects what changes he pleases. He is the same in all his perfections, constant to his intentions, steady to his purpose, unchangeably fixed and persevering in all his decrees and resolutions.
When God is said to repent in scripture, Gen. 6:6. 1 Sam. 15:11. It denotes only a change of his outward conduct according to his infallible foresight and immutable will. He changes the way of his providential dealings according to the carriage and deportment of his creature, without changing his will, which is the rule of his providence.
For otherwise that is an eternal truth, Num. 23:19. 'God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent,' 1 Sam. 15:29. 'The Strength of Israel will not lie, nor repent; for he is not a man, that he should repent.'
Similar threads
