Does all of Israel have to be restored before the Tribulation?

[Davy]

So the question for this thread is...

Does all of Israel have to be restored before the Tribulation?

When we read the Old Testament, we find out that old Israel was bigger than modern day Israel, we also find out that the Promised Land's boundaries is also a lot bigger than modern day Israel.

In Jeremiah we find out that Israel will be restored.

Jeremiah 30
This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord: 2 “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Write in a book all the words I have spoken to you. 3 The days are coming,’ declares the Lord, ‘when I will bring my people Israel and Judah back from captivity and restore them to the land I gave their ancestors to possess,’ says the Lord.”

Then in Romans 11:26 we find out all Israel will be saved.

And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say, “The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem, and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness.

So do these prophecies have to be fulfilled before the Tribulation?

NO! But thinking that is being fulfilled even right now is one of the ideas of many of today's unbelieving Jews. Some of them even quote OT prophecy that is meant only for the day of Christ's future return and thereafter. Their doing that is all part of their deception for the very end of this present world. They of course are inviting Christian brethren to join in with them in that deception. Thing is though, they don't know they are deceived. And all that is according to God's Plan for the end as written in His Word.

 

[Timtofly]

Are you talking literally or figuratively in your post?

Literally. Although I sometimes have to explain myself several times or people just give up altogether.

 

[Keraz]

I will give the Land to new owners:

Zephaniah 3:1-8 Woe to the place of oppression, filthy and defiled, they heed no warning voice and ignore God’s rebukes. They won’t take correction or place their trust in their Creator. Their leaders have no concern for the people and prophet and priest alike profane the Holy Scriptures.

The people who ‘won’t take correction and trust their Creator’, is the Jewish State of Israel.


The Lord has judged and punished them before, their land laid waste and the towns deserted and He thought: surely now they will fear Me and will accept instruction, but they continue on in their evil deeds and they show no shame for it.

Judah has been punished and exiled before; by Babylon and by Rome. But as Ezekiel 21:14 tells us, there will be a third time.


Therefore: look out for Me, for the Day when I will stand up to witness against you, on the Day that I execute justice upon the nations, for I will pour out My fierce anger and the whole earth will be enveloped by the fire of My wrath.

This will be the great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and fiery wrath against the nations. Prophesied in the Bible over 100 times. Habakkuk 3:12 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 6:12-17, +


Zephaniah 3:11-13 On that Day, Jerusalem, I shall wipe away your shame for all the transgressions committed in you, for I shall remove all your proud and arrogant citizens, only the humble and peaceful people will remain and those who never practice evil or speak lies, they will settle in the Land and nothing will disturb them.

This is the great Second Exodus of all of God’s people into all of the holy Land. Every faithful Christian: a vast multitude from every tribe, race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18-21, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Romans 9:24-26, Revelation 7:1-14

Zephaniah 3:9-10 They will all know a pure language, so everyone will know the true Name of the Lord and will praise Him with one accord. My worshippers, all the righteous people will come from afar to worship the Lord and bring offerings to Him. People from every race, nation and language, all the born again Christian people, will travel there to live, in the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, while the rest of the world is ruled by a One World Government. Daniel 7:23, Revelation 17:12


Zephaniah 3:14-17 Daughter of Jerusalem; sing for joy! For the Lord has taken away your punishments and has cast out your enemies. Now the Lord is with you and you need never again fear disaster.

On the Day of the Lord’s wrath; This is the message for My people: Fear not, stand firm in your faith, your God will keep you safe and will rejoice over you.
Ref: REB, CJB, KJV. Some verses condensed and paraphrased.


This chapter of Zephaniah encapsulates the soon to happen end times story.

It tells how Jerusalem, the holy Land is denigrated by its ungodly inhabitants; will rejoice when they are gone. How those enemies of the Lord, the evil neighbors, Jeremiah 12:14, and all who reject the Salvation of Jesus, will be uprooted and gone, then the holy Land resettled by the Lord’s faithful born again Christian believers. Ezekiel 34:11-31 tells it plainly.


Jeremiah 7:30-34 & 8:1-13 The people of Judah have done wrong, they worship idols and have no regard for their Creator....Therefore, the time is coming when I shall fill the valley of Topeth with their corpses.......All the survivors of this wicked race, from wherever I have banished them, would rather die than live. Isaiah 22:14

...Judah is incurable in their waywardness......I listen, but I hear not one word of remorse ....My people do not know the Judgements of the Lord. How can you say: We are wise and we have the Law of God, when your scribes and priests have falsified it? The wise are shamed and where is wisdom in them?

Therefore I will give their wives to others and give their land to new owners, for all of their prophets and priests are frauds....on My Day of reckoning, they will fall with a great crash. I shall surely consume them says the Lord and there will be no grapes on the vine, [Israel] and no figs on the fig tree. [Judah]


We Christians are told by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:4-5, that we should know God’s plans for what will happen in the near future. Zephaniah 3 gives it to us, confirmed by the sequence of Revelation chapters 6:12-17 to 7:1-14.


What is presented to you in these scriptures, is God’s Promises to His faithful people, His blessings of peace and prosperity, of joy and happiness, of security and long life, as all who love Him and keep the Commandments; will live in His Land.

It is the prophetic parallel of ancient Israel, where Jesus led the people through the desert and how most of them refused to accept the Promise. 1 Corinthians 10:6-13

Ezekiel 20:34-38 tells how, once again, some of His people will revolt and rebel and they will not be allowed to enter the Land of Israel.

In today’s situation, we have many who have accepted the Gospel, but who have chosen their own beliefs about what God intends to do for His people and during this forthcoming test, 1 Peter 4:12, they may fail to stand firm in their trust that the Lord will protect them. This won’t lose their salvation, but it will be a serious disadvantage, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15

As the great chapter of Isaiah 35:1-10, one of the many prophesies that describe the Lord’s faithful Christian people entering the holy Land, says: ...no one unclean will go there....The Lord’s people, set free: will enter Zion with shouts of triumph.
Every faithful Christian person will live in all of the holy Land. John sees them all there in Revelation 7:9

 

[theefaith]

So the question for this thread is...

Does all of Israel have to be restored before the Tribulation?

When we read the Old Testament, we find out that old Israel was bigger than modern day Israel, we also find out that the Promised Land's boundaries is also a lot bigger than modern day Israel.

In Jeremiah we find out that Israel will be restored.

Jeremiah 30
This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord: 2 “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Write in a book all the words I have spoken to you. 3 The days are coming,’ declares the Lord, ‘when I will bring my people Israel and Judah back from captivity and restore them to the land I gave their ancestors to possess,’ says the Lord.”

Then in Romans 11:26 we find out all Israel will be saved.

And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say, “The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem, and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness.

So do these prophecies have to be fulfilled before the Tribulation?

israel will never be restored there is a new and eternal covenant now!

 

[Davy]

israel will never be restored there is a new and eternal covenant now!

Wow! You definitely have not been listening to God in His Word!

Jer 31:33-37
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put My law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be My people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD': for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the LORD, Which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is His name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before Me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me for ever.
37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
KJV

 

[theefaith]

The church replaced Israel and is the new covenant
New Israel

matt 21:43 kingdom taken from Israel given to the church which will bear fruit jn 15:1

 

[Truman]

There is a revival of the gospel of Jesus Christ (Yeshua Mashiach) going on in the land of Israel at this moment. More Jews have been saved in the last 20 years than the past 2,000. But the church doesn't want to hear it. Why is this?
Once I accepted the fact that the lost tribes of Israel actually exist and are being awakened to their lost heritage in our day, I see it throughout the Old and New testaments.
This whole thing started for me one Sunday morning in the 90s. After I finished leading worship, I set my guitar down, and as I started walking to the back, God spoke to me loud and clear. He said, "You are a Levite".
Over the next while, He said exactly the same thing in the exact same setting twice more. It took 22 years before I took it seriously enough to look into it. What I discovered proved to me that I was more than a spiritual Levite (which I am).
I am born again spiritually, I have been baptized in the Holy Spirit, and after He made me a worship leader, I assisted Him in raising up 2 other worship leaders.
He told me He was going to give me more. At the time I believed that sanctification was instant. I've never been more wrong.
I never got this doctrine of the daily cross from a pastor or a friend or a teaching tape or a seminary or a bible school or from anyone or anything else. I got it from God. It's also the words of Jesus.
My belief in instant sanctification nearly ended my life and if you won't deal with the enemy within, you might survive it too. "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; because you have rejected knowledge, I reject you from being a priest for Me." Hosea 4:6a ESV

So the question for this thread is...

Does all of Israel have to be restored before the Tribulation?

When we read the Old Testament, we find out that old Israel was bigger than modern day Israel, we also find out that the Promised Land's boundaries is also a lot bigger than modern day Israel.

In Jeremiah we find out that Israel will be restored.

Jeremiah 30
This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord: 2 “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Write in a book all the words I have spoken to you. 3 The days are coming,’ declares the Lord, ‘when I will bring my people Israel and Judah back from captivity and restore them to the land I gave their ancestors to possess,’ says the Lord.”

Then in Romans 11:26 we find out all Israel will be saved.

And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say, “The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem, and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness.

So do these prophecies have to be fulfilled before the Tribulation?

There is an NGO named, "Return Israel" that consists of Christians working together with Israeli Jews to return the nation to its original boundaries. Their goal is to have enough land for when the 10 tribes return. It is my understanding that the numbers will be in the millions.
God clearly says in the OT that He will return those whom He has saved. Some Jews think that the 10 tribes will return to help in the building of what they call the holy temple. Of course, this will be the present-day human-body temple. They just don't see this...yet.
I went looking yesterday for the documentary that helped connect the 10 tribes to my parent's family tree and though I carefully searched all the results, I couldn't find it. I wonder why that is. All the rubbish videos are still there.
I believe Isaiah 49 involves Jesus/Yeshua and the House of Israel.
"He (Yahweh) says, "It is too small a thing for You to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept." Isaiah 49:6a
Cognitive Dissonance: A cognition is a piece of knowledge, such as a thought, attitude, personal value, or behavior. This incompatibility (dissonance) could happen when you do something that goes against a value that's important to you. Or maybe you learn a new piece of information that disagrees with a long-standing belief or opinion. - Healthline

 

[Keraz]

Redemption and then restoration, of the ten tribes:

Isaiah 41:1 - Keep silent before Me you coasts and islands, let the peoples renew their strength. Let them draw near, let them speak up, then: together we shall go to the place of judgement. Isaiah 49:1-6

Five steps are mentioned here by the prophet; keep silent – When ancient Israel migrated from their captivity in Assyria, they remained hidden until they regained their strength. Then, let them come near : awaken to the true gospel, evangelism from John Wycliffe to Billy Graham, etc.

Let them speak : proclaim the good news around the world; our missionary activity.

Still to come is ‘Let us meet in the place of judgement’ Ezekiel 20:34-38, Isaiah 41:8-9. God will soon call His people back to the Land, all the faithful Christians from every nation; Jews and Gentiles, where the administration of His commandments and ordinance’s will be restored. Ezekiel 36:27, Ezekiel 44:23-24
Deuteronomy 4:27, Jeremiah 3:8 The original chosen people were divorced from God and sent into exile for their sins. This is for a decreed period only. Ezekiel 4:4-6

Then God gave Ezekiel a vision of a valley full of dry bones;

Ezekiel 37:11 These bones represent the whole house of Israel [now; every Christian believer] They say: our hope is gone, we are cut off. [from God] Jeremiah 50:6

Ezekiel 37:9-10 The Lord God says: let the winds [Gods Spirit] come and breath into the slain [dead to the Spirit] that they might live. They came to life and stood up: a mighty company! [of born again Christians] Romans 9:24-26

Ezekiel 37:12-13 I will bring you up from your graves [our present condition] and restore you to the Land of Israel. Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Jeremiah 50:4-5


Through Isaiah, God gives a message to Israel, identifying them as a people who have lost the knowledge of their origin and forgotten their ancestors. Isaiah 49:21


Isaiah 51:1-2 Listen to Me, all you who know the Law [the common Judeo-Christian Law of our countries] You who seek the Lord [Christian peoples] consider your origin, where you came from- Abraham and Sarah are your parents. I blessed them and now you are their offspring. Romans 8:14, Ephesians 2:11-18

God is looking forward to the day when the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus is completed. Isaiah 50 & 51, Colossians 1:11-12 In His sacrifice all who believe in Him are redeemed and salvation is available to all who accept Him, repent and acknowledge His Atonement for their sins.


In Psalms 107, Ezekiel 34 & 36, Jeremiah 30 & 31, Isaiah 35 & 66:18-21, and others, the prophets tell the story of how the Lord’s righteous people; faithful Christians are gathered, redeemed and settled into the Promised Land.

The great national awakening of all Israelites, natural and grafted in, is symbolically represented as life from the dead, for through the Resurrection of Jesus, God demonstrated His power and is enabled to do this:

Ezekiel 37:14 I shall put My spirit into you and you will live. [a true Godly life] Thus you will know that I, the Lord has acted and spoken. Isaiah 44:1-3, Joel 2:28


And in Ezekiel 37:26-28 I shall make an everlasting covenant with Israel. [The New Covenant, 2 Corinthians 3:6]

My sanctuary will be in their midst, I will be their God and they will be My people. Revelation 7:9


The Glory of God will be present in the new Temple, built by His faithful people from far away; Zechariah 6:15, as in ancient times. Ezekiel 43:2

The Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign will come after all that is prophesied to occur before that glorious Day, has taken place. Proved by how it is by the Lord’s great actions, that we know He has helped us.

 

[Jay Ross]

It happens after the tribulation, in the OT it is called the time of jacobs trouble,

Jer 30:
For behold, the days are coming,’ says the Lord, ‘that I will bring back from captivity My people Israel and Judah,’ says the Lord. ‘And I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.’ ”

@Josho, Please note that the last bolded sentence should not be understood to be a restoration of the "land" to Israel, as it should read, in my opinion, as "And I will cause them to return to the earth that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it." which puts a very different spin on what that sentence is actually saying. The Hebrew word used in this sentence is the same Hebrew word, הָאָֽרֶץ which is found in Genesis 1:1 as is found in Jeremiah 30:3, הָאָ֛רֶץ. The "earth" that Abraham was going to be shown by God in Genesis 12:1 was God's Kingdom earth and as long as Abraham and His descendants walked righteously within that earth, they would maintain their relationship with God.

Because Israel indulged in idolatrous worship during the first two ages of their existence, God then turned His back upon Israel during the next two ages and cause them to be scattered to the four corners of the earth.

Paul in Romans 11:25-26 informs us that Israel will be saved after the completion in time of the Gentiles trampling the Sanctuary and God's earthly hosts for 2,300 years from around 250 BC, until around 2044 AD plus or minus 5 years when the judgement of the gentile kings of the earth will occur at Armageddon.

As I have previously argued, we all need to consult our Hebrew and Greek Lexicons to verify this truth for ourselves as whether or not both occurrences are a variation of the same Hebrew Root word with the same meaning and understanding.

My sense is that this is so.

Shalom

 

[Josho]

@Josho, Please note that the last bolded sentence should not be understood to be a restoration of the "land" to Israel, as it should read, in my opinion, as "And I will cause them to return to the earth that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it." which puts a very different spin on what that sentence is actually saying. The Hebrew word used in this sentence is the same Hebrew word, הָאָֽרֶץ which is found in Genesis 1:1 as is found in Jeremiah 30:3, הָאָ֛רֶץ. The "earth" that Abraham was going to be shown by God in Genesis 12:1 was God's Kingdom earth and as long as Abraham and His descendants walked righteously within that earth, they would maintain their relationship with God.

Because Israel indulged in idolatrous worship during the first two ages of their existence, God then turned His back upon Israel during the next two ages and cause them to be scattered to the four corners of the earth.

Paul in Romans 11:25-26 informs us that Israel will be saved after the completion in time of the Gentiles trampling the Sanctuary and God's earthly hosts for 2,300 years from around 250 BC, until around 2044 AD plus or minus 5 years when the judgement of the gentile kings of the earth will occur at Armageddon.

As I have previously argued, we all need to consult our Hebrew and Greek Lexicons to verify this truth for ourselves as whether or not both occurrences are a variation of the same Hebrew Root word with the same meaning and understanding.

My sense is that this is so.

Shalom

Well that explains it, thanks for the scripture reference to Romans 11:25-26, I don't know about "2044AD plus or minus 5 years though", there are a lot of dates being thrown around.

 

[theefaith]

Redemption and then restoration, of the ten tribes:

Isaiah 41:1 - Keep silent before Me you coasts and islands, let the peoples renew their strength. Let them draw near, let them speak up, then: together we shall go to the place of judgement. Isaiah 49:1-6

Five steps are mentioned here by the prophet; keep silent – When ancient Israel migrated from their captivity in Assyria, they remained hidden until they regained their strength. Then, let them come near : awaken to the true gospel, evangelism from John Wycliffe to Billy Graham, etc.

Let them speak : proclaim the good news around the world; our missionary activity.

Still to come is ‘Let us meet in the place of judgement’ Ezekiel 20:34-38, Isaiah 41:8-9. God will soon call His people back to the Land, all the faithful Christians from every nation; Jews and Gentiles, where the administration of His commandments and ordinance’s will be restored. Ezekiel 36:27, Ezekiel 44:23-24
Deuteronomy 4:27, Jeremiah 3:8 The original chosen people were divorced from God and sent into exile for their sins. This is for a decreed period only. Ezekiel 4:4-6

Then God gave Ezekiel a vision of a valley full of dry bones;

Ezekiel 37:11 These bones represent the whole house of Israel [now; every Christian believer] They say: our hope is gone, we are cut off. [from God] Jeremiah 50:6

Ezekiel 37:9-10 The Lord God says: let the winds [Gods Spirit] come and breath into the slain [dead to the Spirit] that they might live. They came to life and stood up: a mighty company! [of born again Christians] Romans 9:24-26

Ezekiel 37:12-13 I will bring you up from your graves [our present condition] and restore you to the Land of Israel. Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Jeremiah 50:4-5


Through Isaiah, God gives a message to Israel, identifying them as a people who have lost the knowledge of their origin and forgotten their ancestors. Isaiah 49:21


Isaiah 51:1-2 Listen to Me, all you who know the Law [the common Judeo-Christian Law of our countries] You who seek the Lord [Christian peoples] consider your origin, where you came from- Abraham and Sarah are your parents. I blessed them and now you are their offspring. Romans 8:14, Ephesians 2:11-18

God is looking forward to the day when the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus is completed. Isaiah 50 & 51, Colossians 1:11-12 In His sacrifice all who believe in Him are redeemed and salvation is available to all who accept Him, repent and acknowledge His Atonement for their sins.


In Psalms 107, Ezekiel 34 & 36, Jeremiah 30 & 31, Isaiah 35 & 66:18-21, and others, the prophets tell the story of how the Lord’s righteous people; faithful Christians are gathered, redeemed and settled into the Promised Land.

The great national awakening of all Israelites, natural and grafted in, is symbolically represented as life from the dead, for through the Resurrection of Jesus, God demonstrated His power and is enabled to do this:

Ezekiel 37:14 I shall put My spirit into you and you will live. [a true Godly life] Thus you will know that I, the Lord has acted and spoken. Isaiah 44:1-3, Joel 2:28


And in Ezekiel 37:26-28 I shall make an everlasting covenant with Israel. [The New Covenant, 2 Corinthians 3:6]

My sanctuary will be in their midst, I will be their God and they will be My people. Revelation 7:9


The Glory of God will be present in the new Temple, built by His faithful people from far away; Zechariah 6:15, as in ancient times. Ezekiel 43:2

The Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign will come after all that is prophesied to occur before that glorious Day, has taken place. Proved by how it is by the Lord’s great actions, that we know He has helped us.

Matt 23
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Josho, Please note that the last bolded sentence should not be understood to be a restoration of the "land" to Israel, as it should read, in my opinion, as "And I will cause them to return to the earth that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it." which puts a very different spin on what that sentence is actually saying. The Hebrew word used in this sentence is the same Hebrew word, הָאָֽרֶץ which is found in Genesis 1:1 as is found in Jeremiah 30:3, הָאָ֛רֶץ. The "earth" that Abraham was going to be shown by God in Genesis 12:1 was God's Kingdom earth and as long as Abraham and His descendants walked righteously within that earth, they would maintain their relationship with God.

Because Israel indulged in idolatrous worship during the first two ages of their existence, God then turned His back upon Israel during the next two ages and cause them to be scattered to the four corners of the earth.

Paul in Romans 11:25-26 informs us that Israel will be saved after the completion in time of the Gentiles trampling the Sanctuary and God's earthly hosts for 2,300 years from around 250 BC, until around 2044 AD plus or minus 5 years when the judgement of the gentile kings of the earth will occur at Armageddon.

As I have previously argued, we all need to consult our Hebrew and Greek Lexicons to verify this truth for ourselves as whether or not both occurrences are a variation of the same Hebrew Root word with the same meaning and understanding.

My sense is that this is so.

Shalom

1. God promised isreal a plot of land. Not earth. It is nonsensical to say God is going to restore isreal to the Earth.
2. it says the land he gave their fathers. God did not promise issac and Jacob the earth he promised them the land of Canaan
3. In context. He also said he would be saved from the land (same Hebrew word) if their captivity. Distinguishing this from the land promised the fathers

I can go on. But we need to see it takes
More than just to interpreting a word to get the final Interpretation. While the word may be earth in gen, context does not allow it here

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well that explains it, thanks for the scripture reference to Romans 11:25-26, I don't know about "2044AD plus or minus 5 years though", there are a lot of dates being thrown around.

See above context if the passage does not allow earth as a possible interpretation

rom 11 does not change the fact of what the land is (isreal) it just states when Daniels prophecies concerning the gentiles are complete (when Christ returns to defeat the final empire) all isreal will be saved

 

[Jay Ross]

Well that explains it, thanks for the scripture reference to Romans 11:25-26, I don't know about "2044AD plus or minus 5 years though", there are a lot of dates being thrown around.

Keep in mind that the date of 2044 ± 5 years is when the judgement of the Kings of the earth will occur on the earth at the end of the 2,300 years of the Gentile Kings trampling both God's Sanctuary on the earth and God's earthly hosts, i.e. the Nation of Israel, and will come unexpectantly like a thief, when Christ will be seen by Israel judging the Kings of the earth and their armies and at that time they will seek His terms of Peace. In Luke we are given two indications of this occurring in Luke 14:31-32 and 19:14. Isaiah 24:21-22 also speaks of the Judgement of the wicked heavenly hosts at the same time as the kings of the earth and that both the heavenly hosts and kings of the earth found wanting will be imprisoned in a cistern/pit for many days, i.e. 1,000 years, to await the time of their punishment. Revelation 16:12-16 describes the events leading up to the time of judgement as described in Isaiah 24:21-22 with 9/11 being described in the 6th bowl judgement and seen by all of the earth at the same time, while the signs and wonders were being revealed by the three frog like spirits that went out for all of the earth to see. Isaiah 24:23 then goes on to describe the establishment of God's presence on the earth.

See above context if the passage does not allow earth as a possible interpretation

rom 11 does not change the fact of what the land is (isreal) it just states when Daniels prophecies concerning the gentiles are complete (when Christ returns to defeat the final empire) all isreal will be saved

Eternally Grateful is presenting his argument from the understanding that the bowl judgements are recorded in Revelation 16 in the chronological order in which they have been recorded, and as such he is not entertaining the possibility that they have been recorded in the order of John seeing these Bowl judgments as he walked back in time from the time of the GWTR judgements towards the beginning of the last age.

We must always be open to God's spirit, showing us His truth in the matter of how His ET prophecies will unfold.

Within 25 or so years you will see if I am right. Sadly, the possibility of me actually still being alive at that time is not necessarily as high for me as it is for you.

You will know then, who is peddling a load of rubbish at this present time. My posts may be included in that rubbish as well.

Shalom

 

[Jay Ross]

1. God promised isreal a plot of land. Not earth. It is nonsensical to say God is going to restore isreal to the Earth.
2. it says the land he gave their fathers. God did not promise issac and Jacob the earth he promised them the land of Canaan
3. In context. He also said he would be saved from the land (same Hebrew word) if their captivity. Distinguishing this from the land promised the fathers

I can go on. But we need to see it takes
More than just to interpreting a word to get the final Interpretation. While the word may be earth in gen, context does not allow it here

Perhaps you may like to show me where God stated that Abraham was going to receive the Land of Canaan as a possession in Genesis 13. The translations indicate that he does in our English translations, but the source Hebrew Texts do not.

But hey, I am happy for you to believe in an interpretation perpetuated by the translators of so long ago that it has now become the traditional understanding for many people of God's promises within the Abrahamic covenant.

Shalom

PS: - I am happy for you to show me my error.

 

[theefaith]

Th

Keep in mind that the date of 2044 ± 5 years is when the judgement of the Kings of the earth will occur on the earth at the end of the 2,300 years of the Gentile Kings trampling both God's Sanctuary on the earth and God's earthly hosts, i.e. the Nation of Israel, and will come unexpectantly like a thief, when Christ will be seen by Israel judging the Kings of the earth and their armies and at that time they will seek His terms of Peace. In Luke we are given two indications of this occurring in Luke 14:31-32 and 19:14. Isaiah 24:21-22 also speaks of the Judgement of the wicked heavenly hosts at the same time as the kings of the earth and that bottom the heavenly hosts and kings of the earth found wanting will be imprisoned in a cistern/pit for many days, i.e. 1,000 years, to await the time of their punishment. Revelation 16:12-16 describes the events leading up to the time of judgement as described in Isaiah 24:21-22 with 9/11 being described in the 6th bowl judgement and seen by all of the earth at the same time, while the signs and wonders were being revealed by the three frog like spirits that went out for all of the earth to see. Isaiah 24:23 then goes on to describe the establishment of God's presence on the earth.



Eternally Grateful is presenting his argument from the understanding that the bowl judgements are recorded in Revelation 16 in the chronological order in which they have been recorded, and as such he is not entertaining the possibility that they have been recorded in the order of John seeing these Bowl judgments as he walked back in time from the time of the GWTR judgements towards the beginning of the last age.

We must always be open to God's spirit, showing us His truth in the matter of how His ET prophecies will unfold.

With 25 or so years you will see if I am right. Sadly, the possibility of me actually still being alive at that time is not necessarily as high for me as it is for you.

You will know then, who is peddling a load of rubbish at this present time. My posts may be included in that rubbish as well.

Shalom

The new covenant church is eternal! Lk 1:32/33

 

[Jay Ross]

Th


The new covenant church is eternal! Lk 1:32/33

Your statement is lacking in detail and I have trouble with your claim that the "New Covenant Church," is eternal, based on the reference you quoted.

Many Claim that there is a "new Covenant" but the Greek text always speaks of a "renewed/refurbished" covenant.

Jesus' death on the cross was to provide a new process whereby mankind could obtain redemption based on the refurbished process associated with the Salvation covenant which Christ hinted at in Matt 13:52.

Perhaps you may like to explain your rational with respect to your post.

Shalom

 

[theefaith]

New covenant
New Passover
New Israel
Behold I make “all” Things new!
You don’t put new wine in old wine skins!
They saved the best for last! Jn 2

 

[Davy]

The church replaced Israel and is the new covenant
New Israel

matt 21:43 kingdom taken from Israel given to the church which will bear fruit jn 15:1

The name 'Israel' was always... about The Gospel of Jesus Christ. The 'stone' or rock which was smitten and water came out to feed the people and cattle in the wilderness is a symbol for our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 10:1-4; see also about the "smite the shepherd" in Scripture). The children of Israel carried the Beth-el stone with them, a literal rock which Jacob made his pillow and had dreams upon, woke up and anointed it with oil, and called it Beth-el, which means 'house of God'. Jacob wrestled with The Angel of The Lord and overcame, and received the new name Israel as a blessing. It represents Christ's Salvation.

Yet He did choose a literal seed in that Gospel Plan, and He is not going to go against it, even as Paul showed in Romans 11. Those of the seed of Israel that refuse to believe on Jesus will be cut off. But not the seed that does believe. They will be gathered literally, back to the lands in the middle east God promised their fathers. And that is written in Ezekiel 37 literally, and especially in Ezekiel 47 and 48, showing what parcels of the land is to each tribe of Israel in final.

 

[bbyrd009]

professors, huh?