Does ALL sins include "Past, Present and Future" sins?

[Randy Kluth]

I was talking about those professing to being Christians.

When had Peter backslid after Pentecost? Before, yes; he didn't have the indwelling Holy Spirit.

I don't know why it's relevant if Peter backslid before Pentecost? He was a disciple and a believer, and he backslid. We can all do that and recover. That's all I'm saying.

 

[ChristisGod]

I don't know why it's relevant if Peter backslid before Pentecost? He was a disciple and a believer, and he backslid. We can all do that and recover. That's all I'm saying.

He was a hypocrite after Pentecost when he was a spirit filled believer and Apostle. Paul confronts his hypocrisy in Galatians 2 below.

When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

15 “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

17 “But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.

19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

hope this helps !!!

 

[CharismaticLady]

False. Those Christ died for are reconciled to God by His death specifically while they are being enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10

I know you are new, and welcome. On this site could you type out the full name of the book, like Romans 5:10. That way we can mouse over to it and it automatically comes up on the screen. Remember too on Acts, you must type out Acts of the Apostles for it to work correctly. Thanks.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Interesting question, but that's like saying "Oh, he paid off your debt? How is that not a license to go accumulate more debt?!"

Have you no conscience?! Your first response to a man laying off your debt is to go out and accumulate more, seeing his kindness as a license to be indebted?

What about changing the definition of sin, making sin out to be something far less than what the Scriptures claim? Now THAT is truely heinous.

The thing we're forgetting here is that's our WILLS have ben changed as well. Yes, we still fall prey to the carnal desires of the flesh, but they are not what our will is inclined to; meaning we feel GUILT for our sins; a guilt of concience that we didn't have before, that will not allow us to "run up the tab." like we used to. Yes we still sin; Paul calls Paul calls out Peter for being sinful and excluding the gentiles. Even the writers of Scripture sinned WHILE THEY WERE WRITING THE BOOK! Does this negate Scripture? No! It gives hope to those of us who still sin; that even when we stumble, the grace and blood of Christ is sufficient for us. Denying you sin, and redefining what a sin actually is simply to claim you are sinless, does nothing but place a vast chasm between you and Christ; Christ did not come to save the perfect, but to save sinners. If you can't be counted as one of the redeemed, you aren't one of his sheep. And personally, I'd rather be in the company of men like Peter.

How is what you are saying so different from what I am saying. If our wills have been changed, we WON'T be accumulating more debt.

Show me where the apostles sinned while writing. I know of one, but it was not a sin unto death, but rather a sin NOT unto death. 1 John 5:16-18

 

[CharismaticLady]

Remission of sins is only acquired by being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins per Acts 2:38.

Then, and only then, do these verses you posted from the epistles to the saved saints apply to us.

Do all things righteous, including baptism in water.

 

[brightfame52]

I know you are new, and welcome. On this site could you type out the full name of the book, like Romans 5:10. That way we can mouse over to it and it automatically comes up on the screen. Remember too on Acts, you must type out Acts of the Apostles for it to work correctly. Thanks.

Thanks for the welcome. However Rom 5:10 is scripture. Now please according to that scripture when specifically were they reconciled to God? How were they reconciled to God?

 

[CharismaticLady]

I don't know why it's relevant if Peter backslid before Pentecost? He was a disciple and a believer, and he backslid. We can all do that and recover. That's all I'm saying.

It is because Peter had still not received the empowerment of the Holy Spirit when he denied Jesus 3 times. He only had his carnal, selfish, fearful nature. It is the Holy Spirit that makes us born again, so there is a huge difference. Look at Romans 7:14-25. That is a Jew under the law with only his carnal flesh to try to keep the Law, when his nature is diametrically opposed to the Law. When we are born again, our will and nature changed and is in union with the eternal laws of God, and the struggle is gone, because the laws are written on our will and nature. See the difference? Did you ever see my little analogy I wrote? I love animals so here goes:


Here is my analogy of what it is like when our carnal nature is baptized in the Holy Spirit and born again: "It is like being born with the nature of a lion, loving to kill, and having only a taste for blood and fresh meat. But the law says to not kill and only eat grass. Then that lion becomes born again into a divine new creature, a lamb. The lamb never desires to kill and loves to only eat fresh green grass. Therefore that law to not kill and eat only grass is very easy for the lamb, but impossible for the lion." You see, the lamb couldn't kill and eat meat and blood even once. It has no desire to. It is not in their nature. We do what comes naturally: either that of a lion, or that of a lamb. You can’t be both.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Thanks for the welcome. However Rom 5:10 is scripture. Now please according to that scripture when specifically were they reconciled to God? How were they reconciled to God?

So you are going to be like that? You can't even type out four extra strokes? Great way to start out on a Christian site.

 

[Earburner]

This is another of those unscriptural false doctrines that I find in the modern church regarding sins of lawlessness. (Unintentional trespasses are another issue altogether, and are not covered in this post.)

Scripture is clear that when we come to Christ and He fills us with His Spirit He cleanses us of all unrighteousness. And Peter clarifies further that is only all unrighteousness up to that point when He first cleanses us. Don't you know what the rebirth is about? We are partakers of the divine nature of God that cannot sin. Another argument I've heard is that 1 John 3:9 means practice sins (meaning they will once in a while, just not as a habit), but the second half of the verse verifies it is even commit once. If you cannot sin, you can't do it even once.

1 John 3:9 "Whoever has been born of God does not (commit or practice?) sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. (What about cannot don't they understand?)

2 Peter 1:2-11
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

.
First and foremost, our flesh is always exceedingly sin-ful.
There should not be any wonder why, because Paul says this: Romans 7
[18] For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
I don't think that you or many other Christians have come to agree with what God has just said! Within our flesh, there is NO GOOD THING! Let that digest.
I surely do hope that you don't think that you can become sin-free (good) in your flesh, even with the help of Jesus.

Unfortunately, it is apparent that you still have not yet understood the difference between being sin-less, as opossed to being sin-free.

Maybe the following verse will help you to lean more towards God's understanding of why being sin-less is God's goal, and not the false goal of our flesh, to be sin-free in our flesh:
Col. 3[3] For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. Colossians 3:1-13.

Why must we be "hidden WITH Christ"?
Ans. So that the Father cannot see the sin-fulness of our temporary, condemned flesh, as He abides, dwells and lives in us through His Holy Spirit.

So now, let me ask these two questions:
1. When will you be totally sin-less, while you are in your flesh and blood body?
Ans. Right NOW! Through faith in Christ, we are made to be sin-less (holy) before the Father.
2. When will you be totally sin-free, while you are in your flesh and blood body?
Ans. NEVER! In your flesh, there dwelleth no "good" thing.
Again: Col. 3[3] For ye are DEAD, and your life is HID with Christ in God. Colossians 3:1-13.

Because of our faith in the precious Blood of Jesus, the Father cannot see our
sinful-ness.
However, Christ within us constrains us, which is by His Righteousnessn that is deposited into us.
The Righteousness of God is manifest through the Gifts and the Fruit of the Spirit, which IS NOT the righteousness of the Law.

 

[CharismaticLady]

.
First and foremost, our flesh is always exceedingly sin-ful.
There should not be any wonder why, because Paul says this: Romans 7
[18] For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
I don't think that you or many other Christians have come to agree with what God has just said! Within our flesh, there is NO GOOD THING! Let that digest.
I surely do hope that you don't think that you can become sin-free (good) in your flesh, even with the help of Jesus.

Unfortunately, it is apparent that you still have not yet understood the difference between being sin-less, as opossed to being sin-free.

Maybe the following verse will help you to lean more towards God's understanding of why being sin-less is God's goal, and not the false goal of our flesh, to be sin-free in our flesh:
Col. 3[3] For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. Colossians 3:1-13.

Why must we be "hidden WITH Christ"?
Ans. So that the Father cannot see the sin-fulness of our temporary, condemned flesh, as He abides, dwells and lives in us through His Holy Spirit.

So now, let me ask these two questions:
1. When will you be totally sin-less, while you are in your flesh and blood body?
Ans. Right NOW! Through faith in Christ, we are made to be sin-less (holy) before the Father.
2. When will you be totally sin-free, while you are in your flesh and blood body?
Ans. NEVER! In your flesh, there dwelleth no "good" thing.
Again: Col. 3[3] For ye are DEAD, and your life is HID with Christ in God. Colossians 3:1-13.

Because of our faith in the precious Blood of Jesus, the Father cannot see our
sinful-ness.
However, Christ within us constrains us, which is by His Righteousnessn that is deposited into us.
The Righteousness of God is manifest through the Gifts and the Fruit of the Spirit, which IS NOT the righteousness of the Law.

Jude 1:4

Read my post on the False Doctrine of COVER. (Same forum) Your post is exactly why your belief is a false doctrine.

 

[brightfame52]

So you are going to be like that? You can't even type out four extra strokes? Great way to start out on a Christian site.

Are you going to answer me about Rom 5:10?

 

[Randy Kluth]

It is because Peter had still not received the empowerment of the Holy Spirit when he denied Jesus 3 times. He only had his carnal, selfish, fearful nature. It is the Holy Spirit that makes us born again, so there is a huge difference.

I get this quite often, and don't understand the rationale? It's just assumed that everybody under the OT Law was carnal and lost. Of course, nobody under the Law had eternal life yet because Christ had not yet provided atonement for them. But they certainly were in covenant with God under the Law, and were considered saints. They were not, by any stretch of the imagination, carnal people! I mean, John the Baptist was *not* a carnal man! ;) Right?

Look at Romans 7:14-25. That is a Jew under the law with only his carnal flesh to try to keep the Law, when his nature is diametrically opposed to the Law. When we are born again, our will and nature changed and is in union with the eternal laws of God, and the struggle is gone, because the laws are written on our will and nature. See the difference? Did you ever see my little analogy I wrote? I love animals so here goes:

In my view, Paul is only talking about the state of our carnal beings. While saints of God lived under the Law, their carnal nature counted against them even though they lived by the righteousness of God. Their struggle against sin prevented them from having eternal life, just as Adam and Eve were prevented from eating of the tree of life after they had sinned.

But once God's People entered into the New Covenant of Christ, they are able to deflect the condemnation that is against their sin nature, even though they still have it. Their righteousness in Christ counts towards their having eternal life, because that righteousness is part of the life that Christ has given us.

Here is my analogy of what it is like when our carnal nature is baptized in the Holy Spirit and born again: "It is like being born with the nature of a lion, loving to kill, and having only a taste for blood and fresh meat. But the law says to not kill and only eat grass. Then that lion becomes born again into a divine new creature, a lamb. The lamb never desires to kill and loves to only eat fresh green grass. Therefore that law to not kill and eat only grass is very easy for the lamb, but impossible for the lion." You see, the lamb couldn't kill and eat meat and blood even once. It has no desire to. It is not in their nature. We do what comes naturally: either that of a lion, or that of a lamb. You can’t be both.

Yes, good description! However, you would have to say that all men and women under the Law were "lions!" They certainly were not! The Prophets were not "lions," even though they had sin natures, and struggled, as Paul said, against sin, and were prevented from having eternal life.

But Paul thanks God that the saints under the New Covenant may indeed struggle against their sin nature, but are not prevented from having eternal life. That's the difference, not that the saints did not have righteousness or the sin nature in either testament, but that in the New Testament the saints were finally able to claim eternal life. I hope that is clear enough?

 

[Nancy]

LOVE me some Andrew Farley!!!

 

[Nancy]

LOVE me some Andrew Farley!!!

 

[Nancy]

Andrew truly shows how the Gospel truly IS "good news" :)

 

[HisLife]

And how is that not a license to sin? Can you not see that diabolical belief plays right into the devils hand? It is a false doctrine. NO WHERE in scripture do you see anything but the cleansing of ALL your past sins.

Who said it's a license to Sin, And who wants to sin. I would say The devil's work would be to sow doubt in someone's Faith in The Sacrifice Jesus Made and in the power of his blood Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (Ephesians 1:8) And to look at themselves and their performance instead, where they would fail but...He who began a good work will finish it and Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus

If The Devil could make God lie one time he would be a liar that's what they have tried to do from the beginning but He is not, Scripture says

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.. John 6:37

. . . .And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. John 6:39

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

So let's put some facts on the table.... You say you have no sin 1 John 8 so the truth isn't in you, you hear audible voices in your head, You do prayer circles for manifesting some sort of power, Pagan origins, You put doubt in Christians Faith in The Blood of Jesus and his Sacrifice You make people look to themselves and their performance and works, you promote yourself (pride) I could go on and on but If you call a spade a spade..... Who realy is playing into the Devils hands

 

[Earburner]

Jude 1:4

Read my post on the False Doctrine of COVER. (Same forum) Your post is exactly why your belief is a false doctrine.

So, you are saying that you are NOT "hid with Christ in God". If so, then God the Father still sees all of your sinfulness, from anything of stealing a paper clip, to comitting murder. That goes for all of your covetous thoughts and that of lusting for sex also! I perceive that you shall never get off your knees, to walk in His Spirit as a NEW creature, because you are forever asking for forgiveness of your old flesh and blood existence.
I thought you said that you were born again!
When will you learn, that of yourself, there is NOTHING "good" in you.
Only God is GOOD! So, if He is in you, there is nothing from you that He wants, because in YOU of yourself, there is no good thing, except HIM. For you to be your savior, by keeping anything of the Law, is NOT acceptable to God.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Are you going to answer me about Rom 5:10?

I already said what I have to say in the first post you responded to. And until you start behaving that is all I have to say.

 

[brightfame52]

I already said what I have to say in the first post you responded to. And until you start behaving that is all I have to say.

Okay if you don't want to discuss it with me let's discontinue this.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I get this quite often, and don't understand the rationale? It's just assumed that everybody under the OT Law was carnal and lost. Of course, nobody under the Law had eternal life yet because Christ had not yet provided atonement for them. But they certainly were in covenant with God under the Law, and were considered saints. They were not, by any stretch of the imagination, carnal people! I mean, John the Baptist was *not* a carnal man! ;) Right?

Randy, John the Baptist received the Holy Spirit in the womb! Remember???

Those in the OT that trusted in the Messiah to come, their previous sins were overlooked. Romans 3:25. But because they still had their carnal natures, they struggled to keep the law.

In my view, Paul is only talking about the state of our carnal beings. While saints of God lived under the Law, their carnal nature counted against them even though they lived by the righteousness of God. Their struggle against sin prevented them from having eternal life, just as Adam and Eve were prevented from eating of the tree of life after they had sinned.

This sounds like only Jews alive when the New Covenant came obtained eternal life. That's crazy. Again, Romans 3:25.

But once God's People entered into the New Covenant of Christ, they are able to deflect the condemnation that is against their sin nature, even though they still have it. Their righteousness in Christ counts towards their having eternal life, because that righteousness is part of the life that Christ has given us.

So Jesus only came to take away the condemnation for our sins so we can sin freely? Again, that's crazy and obviously a doctrine of demons, and a slap in Jesus' face. John 8:34-36; 1 John 3:5.

The Prophets were not "lions,"

The kings and prophets were the only OT people that were anointed with the Holy Spirit.

But Paul thanks God that the saints under the New Covenant may indeed struggle against their sin nature, but are not prevented from having eternal life. That's the difference, not that the saints did not have righteousness or the sin nature in either testament, but that in the New Testament the saints were finally able to claim eternal life. I hope that is clear enough?

No, you miss the point of the gospel completely. Look at Daniel 9:24, the prophecy of what the Messiah will do. Jesus is not granting eternal life to those who still sin, but those whose DESIRE AND WILL to sin was taken away 1 John 3:5, preventing them from eternal life, for the wages of sin is still death, whether you claim to be a Christian or not.

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.