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Does "For Ever" mean forever?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Hobie, Feb 7, 2020.

  1. Hobie

    Hobie Active Member

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    Here is a great study by my buddy palehorse:
    I felt it necessary to do this study for a variety of reasons; but the most important one, in my opinion, is dispelling the false belief of an ever-lasting hell which has turned more people away from the Bible (and Christianity) than probably any other singular topic. No one, not even me, would worship an unloving God that burned people in an ever-lasting torment for the ceaseless ages of eternity. The truth is that the Bible doesn’t teach that and that concept flies in the face of the all-loving God we know Him to be; as such, denominations that teach this concept had better rethink their position not only for the sake of Biblical accuracy but also because this pagan teaching (which is rooted firmly in ancient Greek Hellenistic teachings) is causing the massive decay of the Christian church today.

    The root of the problem here is the Biblical meaning of the words “for ever”, “everlasting” and the various forms of “unquenchable”, i.e. “not be quenched”. Most people, understandably so, misunderstand the Biblical concept of these terms. In the Bible these terms sometimes do and sometimes don’t equate to our modern meaning of "forever". In today’s usage these terms mean “for the ceaseless ages of eternity” for the most part though not exclusively. For example:
    A married couple: they tell each other “I’'ll love you forever” but we all know that people die. What they are truly saying is “they love each other until death”, right? This is a parallel to see how even in modern times "forever" doesn’t necessarily mean the ceaseless age of eternity.

    So, let’s establish what the Bible writers’ concept of forever was:
    Genesis 43:9 - I will be surety for him; of my hand shalt thou require him: if I bring him not unto thee, and set him before thee, then let me bear the blame for ever:
    Genesis 44:32 - For thy servant became surety for the lad unto my father, saying, If I bring him not unto thee, then I shall bear the blame to my father for ever.
    This was pre-incarnate Jesus talking to the Father in regards to man’s sin. Now, will Jesus bear the blame forever? No. (see Hebrews 9:28) The day will come when there is an end to sin. So the meaning here is clearly meant as “until it is done”.

    Exodus 12:14 - And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
    Exodus 12:17 - And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.
    Exodus 12:24 - And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.
    But we know that the feasts were done away with when the Old Covenant was fulfilled by Christ. Exodus 12:14 is talking about the institution of the Passover; later Jesus became our Passover (1 Corinthians 5:7). The key in this verse is the part that says “by an ordinance”. We know that the ordinances were nailed to the cross (Colossians 2:14); and there aren’t any ordinances in the 10 Commandments. So again we find that “forever” does not mean the ceaseless ages of eternity as is commonly misunderstood.
     
  2. Hobie

    Hobie Active Member

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    Let’s get some more examples:
    Exodus 19:9 - And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the LORD.
    The question here is, how can the people “believe thee for ever” if they were mere mortals? They could not, of course, unless they were saved and would get ressurected at Christ's second coming. They died and the dead know not anything (Ecclesiastes 9:5). The meaning here is that they would believe for as long as they lived, not the ceaseless ages of eternity. Also, the thick cloud that could be seen by day (it was a fire from the sky at night) was no longer seen after Moses’ death. So, again, “for ever” does not equate to our modern understanding of forever.

    Exodus 21:6 - Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
    Would it be possible for a servant or master to live forever? No. Is a man still a servant to another after death? No. This clearly means that the servant would be a servant for the rest of his life and not the ceaseless ages of eternity.
    Exodus 27:21 - In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD: it shall be a statute for ever unto their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel.
    Exodus 28:43 - And they shall be upon Aaron, and upon his sons, when they come in unto the tabernacle of the congregation, or when they come near unto the altar to minister in the holy place; that they bear not iniquity, and die: it shall be a statute for ever unto him and his seed after him.
    Did the earthly tabernacle and its ceremonies last forever? No. (see Col. 2:14) Again, we find the meaning of “for ever” to mean “until it is done”.

    In the case of man, this means "as long as he lives" or "until death." (See 1 Samuel 1:22, 28; Exodus 21:6; Psalm 48:14.) So the wicked will burn in the fire as long as they live, or until death. This fiery punishment for sin will vary according to the degree of sins for each individual, but after the punishment, the fire will go out; it will not last for the ceaseless ages of eternity.
    Jeremiah 17:27 - But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall NOT BE QUENCHED.
    We all know that Jerusalem is not still burning today; as such the fire that “shall not be quenched” means that it cannot be put out UNTIL it has done God’s purpose. No man can quench it; only God can. And God obviously did quench that fire else it would still be burning to this day.

    We find in the following verses the same concept:
    Isaiah 1:28-31 - And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed. 29 For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen. 30 For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth, and as a garden that hath no water. 31 And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.
    The key here is the last part of the last line: “and none shall quench them.” This clearly means that no one will be able to quench the fire that burns the wicked. But just as we learned in Jeremiah 17:27 only God can quench a fire that He has started. God is consistent in His doings.
    When we apply this to another example from Isaiah where he further talks of Christ’s second coming, we now understand it more clearly:
    Isaiah 34:8-10 - For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance (this is when it happens – not before) , and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.
    Now we see that “from generation to generation” means “the generations of the wicked”, i.e. generations of wicked poeple, not that the fire will last from generation to generation. The only way for that to mean otherwise would mean that people would be procreating in hell – which is an absurd notion. That would then further mean that babies born in hell would burn for no reason. That idea goes totally against what we know of God’s character, does it not? Also in this verse we find another "not be quenched" phrase which by now is clearly understood to mean "unstoppable until it has served its purpose".

    Let’s look at Jonah’s example:
    Jonah 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars were about me FOR EVER: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
    The book of Matthew says Jonah was in the belly of the whale THREE DAYS; not for ever. Here we see the same thing that “for ever” can mean a limited amount of time. Though I must say, to Jonah those 3 days must have seemed like forever. In Jonah 2:6, "for ever" means "three days and nights." (See Jonah 1:17.) In Deuteronomy 23:3, this meant "10 generations."

    These examples should be ample to illustrate that “for ever” according to Biblical teachings does not mean the ceaseless ages of eternity. The same holds true for other phrases such as "not be quenched" and "everlasting". Now that we’ve firmly established the true scriptural concept involved here let’s move on to the question of hell-fire.
     
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  3. Hobie

    Hobie Active Member

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    Question: If the wicked burn in hell for the ceaseless ages of eternity then wouldn’t they also have eternal life?
    The wicked don’t get eternal life, the Bible doesn’t teach that:
    Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
    1 John 3:15 - Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
    John 3:15 - That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    John 5:39 - Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
    John 6:54 - Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
    John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    Romans 2:7 - To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
    Romans 5:21 - That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
    Proverbs 10:25 - As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation.
    This verse is an example of everlasting actually meaning our modern usage of the word. Notice that the wicked become “no more”. If they burned in hell forever then this verse (and many others) should be removed from the Bible because they would totally contradict the concept that has been already been well established.
    Isaiah 33:14 - The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
    This verse goes back to showing that “everlasting” doesn’t mean our modern usage. Notice the phrase “devouring fire”; how can a fire devour something that continues to exist? Simple – it cannot. The fire DOES devour the sinners/wicked and they are no more.

    When the Bible says the wicked will burn “for ever” it does NOT necessarily mean the ceaseless ages of eternity; it simply means “until it is done/accomplished”. To say those in hell will burn forever totally uproots the following verses and many more:
    Isaiah 47: 9-14 – “But these two things shall come to thee in a moment in one day, the loss of children, and widowhood: they shall come upon thee in their perfection for the multitude of thy sorceries, and for the great abundance of thine enchantments. For thou hast trusted in thy wickedness: thou hast said, None seeth me. Thy wisdom and thy knowledge, it hath perverted thee; and thou hast said in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me. Therefore shall evil come upon thee; thou shalt not know from whence it riseth: and mischief shall fall upon thee; thou shalt not be able to put it off: and desolation shall come upon thee suddenly, which thou shalt not know. Stand now with thine enchantments, and with the multitude of thy sorceries, wherein thou hast laboured from thy youth; if so be thou shalt be able to profit, if so be thou mayest prevail. Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.”
    Quick note - stubble burns fairly quickly.
     
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  4. Hobie

    Hobie Active Member

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    Malachi 4:1-3 - For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
    If the dead burn in hell forever then they would be left with root and branch. Also, how can the righteous tread down the wicked that will be ashes if they are eternally burning forever? Simple, they cannot. The Bible does not contradict itself and a “eternally burning” hell is not scripturally accurate. That concept is foreign to the scriptures.

    Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
    The wages of sin is not eternal life while burning in an eternal hell; the wages of sin is death. Hell-fire is the means used to bring about that death.

    Psalms 37:20 - But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
    Psalms 112:10 - The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish.
    Proverbs 10:28 - The hope of the righteous shall be gladness: but the expectation of the wicked shall perish.
    Psalms 68:2 - As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.
    The wicked cannot perish and burn forever at the same time – that would be an oxymoron if there ever was one. It would also mean that the Bible is inaccurate and inconsistent which it isn't. Again, it is US that must change our preconceived notions and accept what the Bible is telling us.

    Psalm 104:35 - Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD.
    Aha, the wicked will become “no more”; a verse that says it plainly.

    Ezekiel 28:18, 19 - Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
    Another verse that says it plainly; they (the wicked) will be no more. They can’t be burning forever AND be “no more” at the same time. Obviously it is the result that will be eternal and forever.

    How does this all come together?
    The Biblical teaching is simple; the results of hell-fire are eternal, everlasting, and forever; the actual fire and those burning in it are not. I think people can get confused with the actual burning and the final result and purpose of hell-fire. The result lasts forever, the fires do not. This confusion is reflected well in the following verse where "everlasting" is the stumbling-block word but now that you know the truth verses like this become easily understandble:
    Daniel 12:2 - And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

    Conclusion:
    Many portions of the Bible simply cannot be reconciled unless the reader understands that the term “for ever” or “not be quenched” or “unquenchable” can also mean “until it is done/accomplished” and not always the “ceaseless ages of eternity” as is the common English meaning. For the Bible to be consistent, which we all know it is and all believers should understand that, then WE must change, not the Bible. We must change our understanding and get rid of preconceived notions. As with anything, the reader must understand the context as well as the Biblical meaning of words, not the modern, in order to fully comprehend the meaning. The term "for ever," as used in the Bible, means simply a period of time, limited or unlimited. It is used 56 times in the Bible in connection with things that have already ended. The key is to consider its proper context and compare scriptures to get the full meaning. Unless one reads with the desire to understand and the willingness to compare scriptures then they will not understand this topic or any others that the Bible teaches,– it’s just that simple.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
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  5. Ernest T. Bass

    Ernest T. Bass Well-Known Member

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    matthew 25:26 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    the same Greek word is used for 'everlasting' and 'eternal'. if punishment is only temporary then heaven is also temporary. But if eternal life is unending so punishment is unending.

    2 corinthians 4:18 "While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal."

    same greek word here for 'eternal' as in mt 25:26. eternal is set in contrast to what is temporal. no contrast if eternal means temporal too. same for philemon 1:15
     
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  6. DPMartin

    DPMartin Well-Known Member

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    hobie it seems your problem is, you believe you are entitled to judge who and what the Creator and Judge, the Almighty ought to be.

    also you don't get it, its man's own judgement that results in death and eternal damnation. the Almighty's Judgement is Life, Life-everlasting and man's judgment is otherwise. so don't be fooled, God is wise to let man receive the results of man's own judgement.

    KJV

    Joh 5:19  Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 
    Joh 5:20  For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 
    Joh 5:21  For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 
    Joh 5:22  For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 
    Joh 5:23  That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. 
    Joh 5:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 

    hence the Father's Judgement Jesus' Father is Life giving His Son's Life to those who believe. otherwise the non believe remains in the condemnation he received when he was born into the world. hence all the hoopla about "Salvation" saved, delivered, from death eternal.


    the Life Adam and Eve die from that day was:

    Luk 3:38  Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God. 

    and they were left with a life of dust to dust ashes to ashes of which the animals that already existed had. hence flesh.
     
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  7. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    Amen!
     
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  8. Hobie

    Hobie Active Member

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    If you look at here...
    Matthew 25:41 King James Version (KJV)
    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    and compare to the text here...
    Jude 7 King James Version (KJV)
    7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

    The fact is that eternal fire does not mean a fire that will never go out as we find same expression is used in Jude concerning the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha. In this use for the fire of "eternal" "everlasting" many are applying modern definitions without reference to their ancient contextual usage and violates one of the most fundamental rules of interpretation.

    Sodom and Gomorrha are not still burning today, yet they burned with "eternal fire," and we are told that it was an example of something. So what example is it of, we see it in 2 Peter 2:6:

    2 Peter 2:6 King James Version (KJV)
    6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

    The eternal fire which brought Sodom to ashes is an example of what will finally happen to the wicked. So the fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha will also burn the wicked in the lake of fire. This is a eternal fire as like Sodom and Gomorrha they will be no more as it will burn the wicked to ashes.
     
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  9. Hobie

    Hobie Active Member

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    Sorry if you feel that way..
     
  10. Hobie

    Hobie Active Member

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    Now take a look at more verses and you find that the wicked will be burned up not burning forever in an eternal fire:
    Malachi 4:3 King James Version (KJV)
    3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

    Psalm 37:20 King James Version (KJV)
    20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

    The punishment is everlasting destruction, they are separated from God for eternity by this fire and never brought back:
    2 Thessalonians 1:9 King James Version (KJV)
    9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

    You have to understand that it is the destruction, not the process that is forever. God could bring you back but this will be a separation for the ceaseless ages of time. Sin will be no more and neither will the wicked, and Satan will also meet his end..

    Ezekiel 28:13-19 King James Version (KJV)
    13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
    14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
    15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
    16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
    17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
    18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
    19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
     
  11. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Mat 13:41, The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
    Mat 13:42, And shall cast them into a furnace of fire (as punishment): there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    Mat 13:49, So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

    Mat 13:50, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire (as punishment): there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    Mat 25:41, Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels (as punishment):

    Mat 25:46, And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    There are those who define the term everlasting as "age-abiding" so that the punishment would only last for one aion.

    However, if that is the case, how is the following to be interpreted?

    Jhn 6:47, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

    We live for one aion and then perish?

    That is no gospel to me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
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  12. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    Little Johnny gets his allowance taken away for two weeks. <- That is a TEMPORARY punishment.

    Little Johnny gets his allowance taken away for all of eternity. <- That is an EVERLASTING punishment.

    Nowhere in the above is Little Johnny being beaten and mercilessly tormented for ever and ever.

    Christians need to understand that 'Everlasting Punishment' simply means a PERMANENT SENTENCE as opposed to a TEMPORARY SENTENCE.

    Good luck everyone. :cool:
     
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  13. Dan57

    Dan57 Active Member

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    I agree that the Lake of Fire is the permanent destruction of body, soul, and spirit. Everlasting death just means that your dead & gone forever, there's no coming back from the second death. The only verse that mentions torment is Revelation 20:10, and forever & ever is better translated and literally means, “to the ages of the ages.” So "tormented day & night to the ages of the ages" denotes a definitive time, they are tormented in knowing their ultimate fate which comes at the end of the age.
     
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  14. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    You put the verse in isolation from the rest.

    If you don't do that, you will see my point more clearly.

    Does "For Ever" mean forever?
     
  15. Cooper

    Cooper Well-Known Member

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    The Hebrew word 'yome' first found in Genesis 1:5 means a period of time:

    H3117
    יוֹם
    yôm
    yome
    From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially): - age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.
    Total KJV occurrences: 2295

    The days of creation when completed were said to be 'good.' This is not said of day seven because this is the day in which we are now living, it is eternal, and when Christ comes it will be for evermore.
     
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  16. Cooper

    Cooper Well-Known Member

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    The Greek word in Revelation 20:10 has the same meaning as the Hebrew word yome.
    G165
    αἰών
    aiōn
    ahee-ohn'
    From the same as G104; properly an age; by extension perpetuity (also past); by implication the world; specifically (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future): - age, course, eternal, (for) ever (-more), [n-]ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.
    Total KJV occurrences: 128
     
  17. Hobie

    Hobie Active Member

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    But the Bible is clear that the wicked do not receive eternal life or then what is the reward for the saints. Now look at this verse so you see more clear the period of time:
    Exodus 21:5-6 King James Version (KJV)
    5 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:
    6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

    So will he serve him for ceaseless ages of time, of course not. In this case, the slave is opting to stay with his master and serve him for as long as he lives and it is termed forever. We see the same thing in these verses:

    1 Samuel 1:22 King James Version (KJV)
    22 But Hannah went not up; for she said unto her husband, I will not go up until the child be weaned, and then I will bring him, that he may appear before the Lord, and there abide for ever.

    Samuel only abided there for a limited period of time. And look here:

    Jonah 2:6 King James Version (KJV)
    6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O Lord my God.

    Is Jonah still in the whale, of course not. In Jonah's case forever was only a few days although it may have seemed like an eternity.
     
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  18. Hobie

    Hobie Active Member

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    Yes, but read what you have. The word also means "age" - an indefinitely long period of time; then perpetuity, ever, eternity - "always" being.
     
  19. Cooper

    Cooper Well-Known Member

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    Both the Hebrew and Greek words are 'homonyms.' These are words with several meanings. The correct meaning can be gained from the context.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  20. Hobie

    Hobie Active Member

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    So you have to understand it basically means a period of time, and in the second death, it is a destruction of the wicked. They cease to exist, they are no more for eternity, they perish.
     
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