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Lucian Hodoboc

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What a blind statement you have made. A multitude of sick folk were by the pool.
Where do you get the idea that a multitude of sick folk were by the pool from? I literally see no mention of any other sick men being there and asking Jesus to heal them and Jesus saying "no".

The statement, "...I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another stepppeth down before me." indicates that the guy sat there all the time but whenever the angel came to trouble the water, there would come another less ill person who was helped by a healthy companion to get in the pool before the guy who had no man to help him could reach the pool. That happened in general. There's no mention of the angel having come to trouble the waters while Jesus was there. Do you think people just say there accompanied by their healthy relatives 24/7 waiting for the angel to trouble the waters?

And the impotent man did not come to Christ, Christ came to him.
Yes, because he was the only helpless ill person there! What do you think the other sick people would have done if Jesus would have singled out one sick person to heal him from an entire group of sick people and then turned away to leave? Wouldn't the other sick people have cried out after Him to return? Is there any mention of this in the Gospel? Is there any mention of people crying out to Jesus and Him walking away and rejecting them when they asked for healing?

Doubt doesn't declassify a believer as a believer. And Thomas was a believer. (John 11:16) But doubt from one who is not a believer, one who is not looking for reasons to believe, but for reasons not to believe, that is you and other skeptics and rationalists, that doubt confirms you as a non-believer.

So, you must first be classified as a believer before you are non-classified.
I'm literally arguing with you about the miracles performed by Jesus, The Son Of God. If that's not being a believer, then I don't know what it is. From where I stand, it seems to me like you are labeling as 'nonbelievers' everyone who has a different interpretation of the Gospel than yours.
 
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Stranger

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Where do you get the idea that a multitude of sick folk were by the pool from? I literally see no mention of any other sick men being there and asking Jesus to heal them and Jesus saying "no".

The statement, "...I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another stepppeth down before me." indicates that the guy sat there all the time but whenever the angel came to trouble the water, there would come another less ill person who was helped by a healthy companion to get in the pool before the guy who had no man to help him could reach the pool. That happened in general. There's no mention of the angel having come to trouble the waters while Jesus was there. Do you think people just say there accompanied by their healthy relatives 24/7 waiting for the angel to trouble the waters?


Yes, because he was the only helpless ill person there! What do you think the other sick people would have done if Jesus would have singled out one sick person to heal him from an entire group of sick people and then turned away to leave? Wouldn't the other sick people have cried out after Him to return? Is there any mention of this in the Gospel? Is there any mention of people crying out to Jesus and Him walking away and rejecting them when they asked for healing?


I'm literally arguing with you about the miracles performed by Jesus, The Son Of God. If that's not being a believer, then I don't know what it is. From where I stand, it seems to me like you are labeling as 'nonbelievers' everyone who has a different interpretation of the Gospel than yours.


(John 5:3)

Pay attention. I said Jesus came to the impotent man. The impotent man didn't come to Jesus.

I believe what the Scripture says. There were a multitude of sick around the pool. The impotent man wanted to be healed but couldn't get to the pool due to others getting there before him.

Again, pay attention. (John 5:3) All that were around the pool were sick in some form or another. The impotent man was one of many.

Again, pay attention. This is not about someone coming to Jesus to be healed. It is about Jesus going to them and healing them.

Arguing with me about the miracles of Jesus doesn't make anyone a believer. Your purpose in 'interpreting' Scripture is to create doubt, not find an answer. Yet you want to wear the brand of 'Christian'.

Stranger
 

Stranger

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Suppose he is a Christian and had some bad experiences recently to cause him doubt. You would be kicking a man when he is down.

He's not looking for reasons to believe. He is looking for reasons to doubt. Read all his posts.

You can act on your supposition if you like.

Stranger
 

Peanut

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Yes, God answers prayer. :)
1 John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us.
 

VictoryinJesus

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How do you know that they were not just coincidental events that occurred on their own after a certain period of time? Do you have any proof that those problems wouldn't have been resolved without someone having prayed for their resolution?

I don't know if you are still here? You asked me a question some time ago and I never answered. It wasn't time to answer yet. How do I know it wasn't just coincidence? How do I know God hears and answers prayer? I will try to keep this short, yet I don't want to rush through and not give God the full glory. It's hard, because it brings me sadness that the answered prayer begins with a death. A death; I didn't or never would have prayed for. To make sense, I have to go back further: to the sticky notes and a plea and the love of a child. For ten years my husband and I have witnessed abuse and neglect of this child. We have fought for this child. We have tried to have a constant voice. Countless times we went to social services, to the school system, to the ones that were causing the abuse but no one ever heard. I can't explain to you the struggle it has been. We(my husband and I) have made ourselves sick (physically) through worry and doubt. Why would God allow us to love this child, give us eyes to discern something is not right, and then give us no power to stop it? Instead, the power of darkness and its hold over this child's life grew stronger and stronger. He became a possession to those that claimed to love him. My husband and I witnessed things, reported it, then would be cut out of the child's life for doing so. It came to a point where, we were banned from even going to his school to eat lunch with him. You see, the people that had custody of him were well known in the community, they had money and prestige. They volunteered at the homeless shelter. They went to church. In the publics eyes and on the surface; they were perfect. We were the only ones that saw what went on behind closed doors. I can't share all we saw: lies, greed, power, dominance, alienation, destruction...nothing good, all things opposite of love. I hated them. I wanted them to suffer. I wanted them to get what they deserve for destroying something so precious to me. Every time we went up against the ones in control, we lost.

In the attic, through prayer(years ago)... I found peace and surrender to God's will not mine. God humbled me through the pain to realize, I was no better then the ones I accused. This was not a short process. It took many years. Finally, I let go of the hatred. I didn't let go of loving this child. But I let go of the hatred. I got on my knees and prayed for my enemies. I mean, genuinely prayed for God to be seen in their life. For them to NOT get what they deserve. On one of those sticky notes I left this little boys care in God's hand, not mine, asking: God, you decide.

Ten years; the prayer was answered. It began with a death. A sudden death that once again left this little boy's life undecided. The death came out of nowhere but changed everything. Once again, we would go to court over this little boy. once again we would have the opportunity to speak. This time, not because we pushed it, but because God put us in that position. We hired an attorney, an attorney who showed up drunk for the first court date. He done nothing. We were convinced it would fail, like all the other times. But God has taught us (my husband and I). We wait. We trust. We have faith in truth. His will be done, not ours. It is out of our hands. I probably can't convince you, but when you see God work...there is nothing like it. I cant express enough what God has done...for us. For this child. For them, the ones that hurt him and us. I prayed for our enemies freedom from fear and control and the panic of hiding lies. It takes a lot of work to keep secrets. I prayed for them to see Him. God turned their lies upside down. One by one, God has brought all the lies out into the light. God has shouted the truth, as if He has amplified it. God is lighting the dark. God is bringing out things we didn't even see. He is proclaiming it, I wish you could see and be convinced. We have done no work. We wait. We trust. We have faith. Our well paid attorney has done nothing. One by one, all those that had remained silent over the ten years of this child's abuse, they are coming out. Speaking truth. God reveals someone new, that saw, everyday. They come to us and apologize for remaining silent this whole time. They are convicted. Family members of the abuser. His own sister. What was once a strong army against us at every corner...has dwindled to two. They stand alone. I have seen miracles. I have seen power. The real power lies in a heart of stone being brought to life. That is the power and it is God's power alone.

There are some ugly things hidden underneath rocks. Pedophilia, child pornography, pay-offs, gambling...things I find inconceivable. Social services wouldn't help. The school system wouldn't help. A small town deceived by what appears to be on the surface wouldn't help. Attorneys didn't help. God helped. He sees what we don't see. I don't pray for my enemies to get what they deserve. I pray for the opposite. That is what God has taught me through all of this. Pray for God's will and watch Him work.

Does God answer prayer...absolutely!
 
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Angelina

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God indeed answers prayer! Praise God!
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