Does God care more for himself than he cares for us?

[Lambano]

I don't see the "acquittal" aspect.

I think it's called "mercy" in the Bible. - LOL

That actually is a profound statement. (And you did it without even trying to be profound!)

Something in the "Disciple Bible Study" materials prompted me to research "righteousness". "And he believed in the LORD; and He accounted it to him as righteousness." That's the key concept that Paul's soteriology go. As Wick Stick pointed out, in both the Hebrew and the Greek, the root word for righteousness צָדַק ("tsadek") and δίκη ("dike") mean "justice". "As a man ought to be."

What is Justice? Doing the right thing. Making things right.

What is the "right thing?" God is a just judge; that is what Paul means by "The Righteousness of God" (δικαιοσύνη θεοῦ; see Romans 1:17 and 2 Corinthians 5:21) in his letters. To be "justified" (δικαιόω; see Romans 3:28) forensically means the judge has found in your favor and declared you "in the right".

How can acquitting the guilty be considered "justice"? Something in the "deeper magic" in C.S. Lewis Chronicles of Narnia gave me the insight that sometimes mercy is the right thing to do.

Deeper magic, Deeper Justice. Making things as they ought to be.

 

[amigo de christo]

This is how much God Loves us, Praise His Holy Name!!.

He did this out of Love he could quite easily have left us in our sin, he doesn’t need us.but, we sure NEED HIM, to lead and guide us into his ways , in Jesus Name, Amen!!......

John 3:16​

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King James Version​

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16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Yet the same JESUS that came to save
had this to say to those who did not or would not BELIEVE ON HIM .
It will be WORSE FOR YOU than ever it was for sodom . GOD wont be denied . GOD PREDETERMINED HOW TO SAVE
and ITS THE ONLY WAY TO BE SAVED . JESUS THE CHRIST .
We better never let go of that message and offer up any other false hope or love .
THE ONLY LOVE WE OFFER UP IS THE LOVE OF GOD , BELIEVE YE IN JESUS THE CHRIST . anything else aint gonna save one soul .

 

[amigo de christo]

Of course God births us in the Spirit....how can man do that, they can’t, it’s a supernatural act of God.....I played no part in being birthed in the Spirit.....he chose me, I did NOT choose to be birthed in the Spirit.

God even brought me to believe in Jesus, I’m not saying he believed for me..but, he certainly planted Jesus into my mind....I also don’t care what others think ...this is my testimony 100% and it will NEVER change.....I received God’s word straight to my heart...

I don’t believe God needs mans cooperation to birth them in the Spirit...that’s my own belief and opinion and again it will never change..

I do believe God needs man’s cooperation to do his will....which is the role of the Holy Spirit to get Gods children to fully surrender to the will of God....as we have a “ Living “ relationship with God through the Holy Spirit....

The proof one has been born again from above .
It aint just doing some kind of good works lovey do and beleiving any path is fine .
YOU SEE IF ONE HAS BEEN BORN FROM ABOVE , BORN O THE SPIRIT
they wont be following another religoin , or being an atheist , THEY WOULD BE CALLING JESUS LORD
not accursed . Never let the inclusive verison of born again fool us . for they say muslims and others have been born again
and their works of loving their neighbor proves it . OH NO IT DONT . THEY DONT CONSDIER JESUS THE CHRIST OR SON OF GOD
they accurse the JESUS CHRIST OF THE BIBLE as does every other religoin . SO NO WAY ARE THEY BORN AGAIN .
GOD IS SPIRIT , HIS SPIRIT IS TRUTH , HIS SPIRIT WOULD TESTIFY OF JESUS CHRIST .
something the carnal mind cannot attain , YET BY THE SPIRIT IT IS REVEALED that JESUS IS THE CHRIST .
GOD DRAWS . not man , our flesh our carnal mind , DID NOT PUT THE DESIRE to come to CHRIST within us
GOD DID . HE DREW and he drew us out of many waters .
I STILL remember that day almost eighteen years ago . IT was a day just like all others before it had been .
I had woke up the carnal man and went about my daily life , yet , later in the day
A STIRRING FROM WITHIN ME BEGAN and DREW ME RIGHT TO CHRIST , WITH A DESIRE TO KNOW GOD
with a LOVE FOR TRUTH UPON MY HEART . GOD DID THAT . I TESTIFY TO THIS TRUTH . IT IS GOD .
But on that note , GOD DONT LEAD ANYONE INTO JUST ANY RELIGOIN . HE DRAWS ONE TO JESUS THE CHRIST .
any who claims to be born again and yet teaches that its not necessary to HAVE TO BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST
AINT BORN AGAIN . lambs KNOW THE DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON HIM , ITS HE WHO GOD LED US TOO .

 

[amigo de christo]

GOD HIS CHRIST DOES CARE FOR US
they are not as are these inclusive wolves who preach lies under guise it is love .
these hirelings are the ones who care not for the sheep .
had they cared for the sheep they would not have sold out the dire NEED TO HAVE TO BELIEVE ON THE KING
they would not have honored sins or any other mindset .
BUT they care for survival and money in this world and not for the sheep .
The true shepards who work UNDER and BY THE TRUE SHEPARD , POINT TO JESUS CHRIST
and will love and teach all things HE did teach as did the first apostels .
THESE HIRELINGS care not for the sheep , just for survival and the church is nutting more than a business to them .
OUT WITH THEM . GOD will judge them according to their false love . time for true leaders
to step rise up and help the peoples and get them far away from these hirelings .

 

[St. SteVen]

Definitely not. Mercy is for the condemned. The justified do not need mercy - they have been judged to be in the right.

This is what I was responding to.

O'Darby said:
I don't see the "acquittal" aspect.

St. SteVen said:
I think it's called "mercy" in the Bible. - LOL

/

 

[Duck Muscles]

The way some Christians talk about God, you would think so.

They tell us we are unacceptable to God. That it is only with great difficulty that God loves and tolerates us.

The image of a God that is disappointed with us, because we don't measure up. Shakes His head when he sees us.

An unreasonable expectation that we can never meet. Not accepted for who we are, or where we are at.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is not what I see in God. I see a loving heavenly Father.

His kids are always welcome in his lap. He's intensely interested in them.

He puts everything aside to listen to them. He glories in their presence.

Can hardly wait to see them again when they return. Delights in them.

There is a line down the center of this post, Which side of the line are you on? Top, or bottom?

I think it is in Genesis 6 God had regretted creating humans.


I would say God does care more for God than us. God does whatever God wants.

 

[St. SteVen]

I think it is in Genesis 6 God had regretted creating humans.

That's worth discussing. Tell me what you think about this.

The text in Genesis certainly indicates, says actually, that God was sorry he made humankind.
However this strikes me as very strange. I think the narrative is more prosaic than accurate. IMHO
Here's why.

We know that God is omniscient. (all-knowing)
How is it that he could have not known what was coming?
The Flood narrative treats the situation as Plan B.
As if God had to start over because he didn't anticipate this happening. ???
That God, in essence, made a mistake. ??? Say what?

This is a problem. IMO

I would say God does care more for God than us. God does whatever God wants.

So... are you saying God is a tyrant?
Tyrants do whatever they want with no consideration for others.

/ cc: @quietthinker @Lambano @Hillsage @amadeus @Azim

 

[Duck Muscles]

That's worth discussing. Tell me what you think about this.

The text in Genesis certainly indicates, says actually, that God was sorry he made humankind.
However this strikes me as very strange. I think the narrative is more prosaic than accurate. IMHO
Here's why.

We know that God is omniscient. (all-knowing)
How is it that he could have not known what was coming?
The Flood narrative treats the situation as Plan B.
As if God had to start over because he didn't anticipate this happening. ???
That God, in essence, made a mistake. ??? Say what?

This is a problem. IMO

There is a proposition regarding the source of the Old testament.

For instance, the word Elohim. Often thought to be another name for God. However, it isn't.

It is a plural word that is found some 2500 times in the Old testament . A label that encapsulates a group of god's. And there were many different ones referred to in the Old world texts of the Old testament.
Psalm 82, 1 Kings 11, and others.

Even in the creation of the human race we read God speaking in plural terms.

Let us make man on our image and likeness.

The usual understanding for that is God was referring to his triune nature. Yet God tells us God is the only one, so it can't be that. Nor did Jesus later refer to three identities in heaven.

Even from the perspective of Isaiah 43, the plural nature of the Genesis creation of humans remains an issue.

So... are you saying God is a tyrant?
Tyrants do whatever they want with no consideration for others.

/ cc: @quietthinker @Lambano @Hillsage @amadeus @Azim

God in the Old testament tells us he is a tyrant.
Sending people to suffer eternally for not redeeming themselves from their God given human nature and for finite errors , to suffer punishment eternally is tyrannical. Especially in the domain of the Omniscient.

 

[St. SteVen]

God in the Old testament tells us he is a tyrant.
Sending people to suffer eternally for not redeeming themselves from their God given human nature and for finite errors , to suffer punishment eternally is tyrannical. Especially in the domain of the Omniscient.

Do you consider God to be a tyrant?
Or is that mischaracterizing him in your view?

/

 

[Lambano]

God in the Old testament tells us he is a tyrant.
Sending people to suffer eternally for not redeeming themselves from their God given human nature and for finite errors , to suffer punishment eternally is tyrannical. Especially in the domain of the Omniscient.

Hate to say it, but the Eternal Conscious Torment thingie comes from the New Testament. Where do we find concept of Gehenna and the Lake of Fire written? Matthew, Mark, Luke, and Revelations.

What happens when the kids are messing up and Father needs to spank them? Most of the Old Testament context is about the Exile and the events leading to it. This leads to an imbalanced view of the God of the Old Testament as a tyrant.

This "black-or-white" thinking drives me nuts, or at least makes me roll my eyes. God is either a cruel tyrant, or a soft loving Father who would never spank the kids, even when they needed it. The truth is probably somewhere in between; a gray area, shade number 37.

 

[Duck Muscles]

Hate to say it, but the Eternal Conscious Torment thingie comes from the New Testament. Where do we find concept of Gehenna and the Lake of Fire written? Matthew, Mark, Luke, and Revelations.

What happens when the kids are messing up and Father needs to spank them? Most of the Old Testament context is about the Exile and the events leading to it. This leads to an imbalanced view of the God of the Old Testament as a tyrant.

This "black-or-white" thinking drives me nuts, or at least makes me roll my eyes. God is either a cruel tyrant, or a soft loving Father who would never spank the kids, even when they needed it. The truth is probably somewhere in between; a gray area, shade number 37.

I think it is black and white on the human scale of cognizance that subjorns faith in God as biblically defined.

If we accept the Bible as God's words, do we then in our way of thinking deny what God tells us as pertains to God and God's identity?

If the New testament is to be balanced it must comport with that of the old which came before it.


The Old testament prophecies what the New testament testified as having arrived. This includes Jesus.

 

[St. SteVen]

The truth is probably somewhere in between; a gray area, shade number 37.

Probably a medium normal gray? (still seems black and white)



/

 

[St. SteVen]

If we accept the Bible as God's words, do we then in our way of thinking deny what God tells us as pertains to God and God's identity?

How do you resolve the contradiction about God's character before Noah's Flood?
- Is God omniscient?
- Did he make a mistake?
- Did he not see this coming?
- Is our current world Plan B?
- In the creation week everything was good, by Genesis chapter six everything is bad?

Sometimes believing the Bible is worse than not believing it.



/

 

[Lambano]

- Is God omniscient?
- Did he make a mistake?
- Did he not see this coming?
- Is our current world Plan B?
- In the creation week everything was good, by Genesis chapter six everything is bad?

Definitely gives fodder for the Open Theists.

 

[St. SteVen]

Definitely gives fodder for the Open Theists.

When the canon becomes a cannon. - LOL



/

 

[St. SteVen]

Bible topics. (by yours truly) Links below.

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Examining the supposed "Whole Bible" view. - No consensus?​

In BIBLE we trust? - Misplaced allegiance?​

The "Yeah, but..." school of doctrine - Bible versus Bible​

Apokatastasis in the Bible​

Why are Bible scholars leaving Christianity?​

Interesting that the Bible is "the Word of God", unless someone quotes a translation you disagree with.​

Jesus Versus the Bible - Who will win?​

Jesus talked about hell more than any other person in the Bible. - Seriously?​

The Peshitta - the Aramaic Bible translation​

/ cc: @Duck Muscles

 

[Duck Muscles]

How do you resolve the contradiction about God's character before Noah's Flood?
- Is God omniscient?
- Did he make a mistake?
- Did he not see this coming?
- Is our current world Plan B?
- In the creation week everything was good, by Genesis chapter six everything is bad?

Sometimes believing the Bible is worse than not believing it.

View attachment 43772

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It could go with the actual identity of the Elohim. As in a reference to many god's.

I think that would explain a lot of scripture where, if we think of a single deity being described in all the Old testament narratives they sound a bit unstable. With multiple personality disorder.

However, if we consider all the different tribes of people and their God being addressed by the people and God of the Hebrews, I think it makes sense.

One God proclaiming, 'I am the only one! ' While other tribes of people are condemned for their god faith.

 

[amigo de christo]

Someone is way over thinking some things . Its high time we DUCK DOWN OUR HEADS right into THE BIBLE AGAIN .

 

[O'Darby]

Flood accounts are so prevalent in antiquity that the account in Genesis simply has to be a Jewish spin on what was at least a regional and possibly a worldwide catastrophe. The idea that God regretted making humans is too theologically goofy to take seriously. Open Theism really doesn't avoid the issue. Even if God was surprised by the depravity of humanity His response was "just a bit" extreme for the God of Perfect Love and Justice. Moreover, how do we explain the ghastly subsequent history of humanity - God threw up His hands and decided just to live with it?

I really think the OT has to be read allegorically and metaphorically for whatever spiritual lessons you can glean from it. Trying to take it more seriously than this is the route to confusion at best and loss of faith at worst.

Without being serious about the percentages, I once said I thought the OT was 20% profound spiritual truth, 20% accurate history, 20% pure myth, 20% Jewish tribal nonsense and invented/exgerrated history, and 20% poetry, fiction, apocalyptic and other literary genres.

As I've said elsewhere, if I insisted on reading the Ancient Egyptian religious texts in the same way many Christians insist on reading the OT, people wouldn't think I was eccentric - they'd think I was completely insane. One major objection, of course, is that the OT is the Word of God and thus is in an entirely different category. I happen to believe it is - but within the context of something like the percentages set forth above.

The other major objection is that Jesus believed the OT. Well, so do I - within the context of what is believable and in the way it is believable. Beyond that, I'm just not going to beat my head against the OT wall.

 

[amigo de christo]

It must be fun to have your own little personal Peanut Gallery of groupies who follow you around and give you Likes and Loves for every single inane, repetitive, non-substantive post. What a gig! Can I borrow @Marvelloustime and @Ritajanice for a day just to bump up my batting average?

Would it shock you to know that i dont do anything for likes .
So dont concern yourself with likes .
none of that matters . the only thing that does is that one simply speaks the truth