Does God care more for himself than he cares for us?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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compared against all the other living things on this earth yes we are the most like him . God is so far beyond us . at best we are a blurry image .
Do you claim that God cares more for Himself than for us?
He paid quite a price to redeem us.
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he gave to us the way to life .its up to us to alien our self's to his standards . perhaps you dont know
God does not have to except any or all forms of worship just because its offered . Matthew 7:21-23
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I am concerned that you may be attributing too much to God's will. I hold that on earth, and in the present time, our will has an effect on where we end up.
It is written that God is love, and this makes sense because he is also the creator. Why create if you're not going to care?
God does care about his creation, and so he made a way to save it, through his son. A kingdom with Christ at the head is God's will. And the destruction of this fallen world and the old heaven is also his will. Like with Noah's Ark many but not all will be saved through the son.
They are saved through the son not by God's will alone. We must be willing to accept the Lordship of Jesus Christ over us.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
We are all life long sinners even when one is not aware of it.
The operative principle is that when one draws closer to God one becomes more and more aware of ones sins and the further one is from God, ones awareness of ones own sin fades, one even considers oneself 'holy' or special or any of those descriptors which result in looking down on others.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Speak for yourself, "confessed lifelong sinner". @quietthinker
Paul was not a lifelong sinner, and any solid Christian, who learns early on, how to put on the Armor of God, daily, and walk in the Spirit.
These live spiritual lives elevated well above carnal behavior.
Hey lforrest,
I wanted to see this rewritten professionally through co-pilot.
Rewrite:
I respectfully express concern that too much may be attributed solely to God's will. In the present time, on this earth, I believe human will plays a meaningful role in determining our eternal direction.
Scripture affirms that God is love, and rightly so—He is also the Creator. It stands to reason that creation reflects His care. Out of that love, He provided a means of redemption through His Son. God's will is reflected in the establishment of Christ’s kingdom and in the ultimate renewal through the destruction of this fallen world and the old heaven.
However, salvation through the Son is not accomplished by divine will alone. It also requires our willingness to submit to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Just as in the days of Noah, many may be offered salvation—but only those who choose to enter through Him will be saved.
My comment:
Warm regards, Matthew
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
You can be certain that when you argue you have no sin, you are none of his.
1 John 1:8-10
If we say, “We are without sin,” we deceive ourselves,* and the truth is not in us. If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing. If we say, “We have not sinned,” we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Bruce-Leiter
Well-Known Member
Hi, @Behold, I might have responded similarly on a different forum, but Paul admitted to being imperfect in Philippians 3:
Php 3:8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ
Php 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—
Php 3:10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
Php 3:11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
Php 3:12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.
Php 3:13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,
Php 3:14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
Instead, he ran the race toward future resurrection perfection, which all true believers will have when Jesus returns to raise us from the dead. If Paul says that he is sinful, I will never claim that I'm perfect.
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Thank you for your response Matthew
I doubt that this sinful world will be allowed to persist forever. And while the new heaven exists now, so does the old. And I believe a time will come when only the new persists.
The kingdom of heaven is with us now, and it is growing one saint at a time. And it doesn't diminish because no power in heaven or earth will snatch the chosen one's from Jesus hand.
Yet in the last days after the last saint is martyered there will not be a reason to keep this earth around. It would even be cruel to allow any children to be born in the earth after that time without hope, let alone allowing it to continue infinitely long.
Does it follow that, if God does care more for Himself than for us, that God must, therefore, care for us poorly? Why can't God care more for Himself than for us but still care for us enormously and well? Imagine a man with a pet dog he loves dearly, feeding it, housing it, training it, keeping it healthy, and so on. But the man also has a daughter whom he loves. In fact, he loves his daughter far more than he loves his dog. Does the man's greater love for his daughter mean he's mistreating his dog? Not at all. The dog is well-treated even though the man loves his daughter much more than his dog.
Well, we are all, apart from Christ, very unacceptable to God. So much so, that if something isn't done about our unacceptable condition, we'll all end up in eternal hell (Jn. 3:15-16; 2 Co. 5:21; Ro. 5:6-10, etc.).
God, being who He is, finds nothing difficult to do. In particular, God loves us easily and deeply because it is in His nature to love (1 Jn. 4:8, 16), not because we have acted in a way that God can tolerate.
God could only be disappointed in us if He didn't know ahead of time what we would or wouldn't do. But God is omniscient and has, therefore, always known everything. He is, then, never surprised or disappointed by us. Thus, the idea that God shakes His head in disappointment is quite out of keeping with the facts about God.
But our sin makes us deeply unacceptable to God. In fact, our sin is so awful that God will punish it with eternal hell if we don't escape His punishment through the way He's provided to us (Jn. 14:6; Ac. 4:12; 1 Ti. 2:5). So, God isn't disappointed with us but He certainly doesn't accept us as the rebellious sinners that we are.
Yes, God is a loving heavenly Father - to those who are His children. Those who are not His children meet God as a wrathful, holy Judge (Jn. 3:36; He. 10:29-31).
God has no "lap." And what makes you think He's "intensely interested" in His children? God isn't like us, fixating intently upon things that stimulate Him positively in some way. God's perfect and has been since before the universe existed, needing nothing, diminished by nothing, and improved by nothing. So, God isn't improved or lessened by His attention to us; it's simply in His nature as an omniscient Being to know every, single thing about us, no matter how trivial. This knowledge of us isn't a mark of His intense interest in us, however, but just the consequence of being who He is.
How eager people are to position themselves relative to God as something greater than the insignificant creatures they are. The truth is, if we all disappeared in the next instant, God would not be diminished in the slightest. That He attends to us as He does, then, is a testament to His awesome, wonderful nature, not to anything excellent in us.
??? No He doesn't. God never has to "put everything aside" to attend to us. He is God and so can orchestrate the functioning of the entire universe, intimately aware of all that is happening in every point within it, directing the course of hundreds of billions of galaxies, and still give us close and personal attention. And nowhere in the Bible does God ever say that He "glories in our presence." What a bizarre thought! Instead, apart from Christ, we are vile wretches deserving of divine wrath and punishment (Ro. 3:10, 23; Eph. 2:1-3; Tit. 3:3, etc.). Separate from the redeeming, justifying, sanctifying work of Jesus, we're nasty pieces of work with which God is justly angry!
Yes, when they do so humbly, repentant and forsaking their rebellious waywardness in a "far country." There is no fellowship between God and His children so long as they live in sin (Ps. 66:18; Isa. 59:2; 1 Pe. 3:12).
Inasmuch as your line is not drawn between a properly biblical and unbiblical perspective on God, but just two unbiblical perspectives, I can't stand on either side of your line.
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Does God care more for himself than he cares for us?
The way some Christians talk about God, you would think so.
They tell us we are unacceptable to God. That it is only with great difficulty that God loves and tolerates us.
The image of a God that is disappointed with us, because we don't measure up. (shakes His head when he sees us)
An unreasonable expectation that we can never meet. Not accepted for who we are, or where we are at.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is not what I see in God. I see a loving heavenly Father.
His kids are always welcome in his lap. He's intensely interested in them.
He puts everything aside to listen to them. He glories in their presence.
Can hardly wait to see them again when they return. Delights in them.
There is a line down the center of this post.
Which side of the line are you on? Top, or bottom?
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Moral propensity and appearance only. It's why the angels always present as males...goes to whose image we are made in. Even Jesus was made a little lower than the angels.
I’m with the bottom half. A God who only tolerates people doesn’t line up with what I read or experience. Love comes first, not disappointment.
Behold
Well-Known Member
You teach a false Gospel, while you continue to falsely accuse God with your vain & ignorant religious questions. @St. SteVen
So, here is the final answer.
"For God so loved the world (everyone) that He Gave His only begotten Son".. so that they can believe in Jesus while they are still alive, and be forgiven and given eternal salvation.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Does God care more for himself than he cares for us?
I would say God “DOES For Himself FIRST”…
His Will…
Which “in turn”…Positions Himself to Gracefully, Righteously and Justly Care for others.
Same model / Way, men can mimic Gods Example.
Glory to God,
Taken
I would say God “DOES For Himself FIRST”…
His Will…
Which “in turn”…Positions Himself to Gracefully, Righteously and Justly Care for others.
Same model / Way, men can mimic Gods Example.
Glory to God,
Taken
Bruce-Leiter
Well-Known Member
The way some Christians talk about God, you would think so.
They tell us we are unacceptable to God. That it is only with great difficulty that God loves and tolerates us.
The image of a God that is disappointed with us, because we don't measure up. Shakes His head when he sees us.
An unreasonable expectation that we can never meet. Not accepted for who we are, or where we are at.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is not what I see in God. I see a loving heavenly Father.
His kids are always welcome in his lap. He's intensely interested in them.
He puts everything aside to listen to them. He glories in their presence.
Can hardly wait to see them again when they return. Delights in them.
There is a line down the center of this post, Which side of the line are you on? Top, or bottom?
@St. SteVen, I have never heard any Christians talk about God the way you describe them in the first part. To which Christians were you referring when you wrote the original post? I think that you posted an empty "scarecrow" and then knocked it down with the second part of your post. If that's so, this whole discussion is moot.
To answer your original question, I say, "No." Why? Because God is never selfish in caring for himself. I base this statement on his voluntary sacrificing of his own Son to satisfy his own justice against our sins. Yes, God is our just Judge as our great Creator, but he gave us who believe Jesus' not-guilty verdict through his death on the cross, thus unselfishly doing what we could not do for ourselves.
They tell us we are unacceptable to God. That it is only with great difficulty that God loves and tolerates us.
The image of a God that is disappointed with us, because we don't measure up. Shakes His head when he sees us.
An unreasonable expectation that we can never meet. Not accepted for who we are, or where we are at.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is not what I see in God. I see a loving heavenly Father.
His kids are always welcome in his lap. He's intensely interested in them.
He puts everything aside to listen to them. He glories in their presence.
Can hardly wait to see them again when they return. Delights in them.
There is a line down the center of this post, Which side of the line are you on? Top, or bottom?
@St. SteVen, I have never heard any Christians talk about God the way you describe them in the first part. To which Christians were you referring when you wrote the original post? I think that you posted an empty "scarecrow" and then knocked it down with the second part of your post. If that's so, this whole discussion is moot.
To answer your original question, I say, "No." Why? Because God is never selfish in caring for himself. I base this statement on his voluntary sacrificing of his own Son to satisfy his own justice against our sins. Yes, God is our just Judge as our great Creator, but he gave us who believe Jesus' not-guilty verdict through his death on the cross, thus unselfishly doing what we could not do for ourselves.
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