Does God love burning people in hell?

[MatthewG]

You ignore the insult and offence to an infinite God.

You also ignore or blatantly misrepresent thefact that it is God who has warned us about hell.

It’s important to take the Bible in as a whole. Not just what one may think or believe. It’s easy to leave up to God and not to any digging around.


God didn’t warn you about hell. Jesus warned them then at that time about hell. Which everyone went to hell no one ever went to heaven until after Jesus his resurrection, by the spirit of God.

And even to go further, John the beloved wrote down things that were revealed to him from God and about what was to be.

The truth would involve a transition from being in hell to be raised again in the heavenly one sin was taken care of.

John reveals information of hell being done away with.

But people will presist with the narrative “as though hell is breathing down there neck and they will end up there…”

Sure if Jesus hasn’t resurrected, and hell is not done away with. Then yeah your going there, until you’re dumped out then judged.

 

[St. SteVen]

You know @St. SteVen Steven perhaps God does burn people forever

Yes, perhaps.
There are three biblical doctrines of the final judgment.
One of them is true, I suppose. Or all three are false, as an option. ???
1) Damnationism
2) Annihilationism
3) Ultimate Redemption, Universal Restoration/Reconciliation, UR

I guess their story of death never really does end.

As I understand it, death is the final enemy to be destroyed.

If God is good I don’t expect that force is needed.

Right.
My view is that anyone who claims to hate God hasn't met Him yet.
I imagine such a meeting as overwhelming love, rather than unquenchable fury.
He is not called our heavenly Father for nothing. Good parents don't incinerate their kids.

God is good... all the time! (for all time)

 

[St. SteVen]

You ignore the insult and offence to an infinite God.

You seem to paint this "infinite God" as a tyrant with anger management issues.
Since He is omniscient, he certainly saw this coming.
Since He is omnipotent, He could have prevented it.
Since He is sovereign, it was planned.

Why would He be either insulted, or offended in any way?

You also ignore or blatantly misrepresent thefact that it is God who has warned us about hell.

That saw cuts both ways.
The scriptures I present are also ignored, or blatantly misrepresented.
And the warnings about "hell" are highly debatable.

Bibles that do NOT contain the word "Hell".

Scarlett's N.T. (1798)
The New Testament in Greek and English (Kneeland, 1823)
Young's Literal Translation (1891)
Twentieth Century New Testament (1900)
Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (reprinted, 1902)
Fenton's Holy Bible in Modern English (1903)
Weymouth's New Testament in Modern Speech (1903)
The New Testament, James Moffat, (1917)
Jewish Publication Society Bible Old Testament (1917)
Panin's Numeric English New Testament (1914)
The New Testament, Charles B. Williams, 1937
The People's New Covenant (Overbury, 1925)
Hanson's New Covenant (1884)
Western N.T. (1926)
NT of our Lord and Savior Anointed (Tomanek, 1958)
Concordant Literal NT (1983)
he N.T., A Translation (Clementson, 1938)
Emphatic Diaglott, Greek/English Interlinear (Wilson, 1942)
New American Bible (1970)
Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible (1976)
Tanakh, The Holy Scriptures, Old Testament (1985)
The New Testament, A New Translation (Greber, 1980)
Christian Bible (1991)
The Scriptures (1993)
World English Bible (in progress)
Orthodox Jewish Brit Chadasha [NT Only]
Original Bible Project (Dr. James Tabor, still in translation)
Zondervan Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1975)**
Int. NASB-NIV Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1993)**
A Critical Paraphrase of the N.T. by Vincent T. Roth (1960)
New Testament, Recovery Version, Living Stream Ministry, 1991
New American Bible Revised Edition (NABRE)
Roman Catholic Holy Bible In Its Original Order, Fred R. Coulter, 2007
Etymological N.T. (An Ultra Literal Translation, 2011, Michael Wine)
Aramaic Peshitta New Testament, 2006, Janet M. Magiera
MirrorWord N.T. (Francois du Toit) still in translation
Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ, Electronic Ver. (Tentmaker Ministries)
The Source N.T. (Dr. Ann Nyland), 2004, 2007
Jonathan Mitchell N.T. (Jonathan Mitchell) 2009
The Scriptures, 2016
Tree of Life Version, Baker Bookhouse, 2016******
The New Testament (David Bentley Hart) Yale University Press, 2017

 

[St. SteVen]

Kolasis - William Barclay

The word for punishment is kolasis. The word was originally a gardening word, and its original meaning was pruning trees. In Greek there are two words for punishment, timoria and kolasis, and there is a quite definite distinction between them. Aristotle defines the difference; kolasis is for the sake of the one who suffers it; timoria is for the sake of the one who inflicts it. Plato says that no one punishes (kolazei) simply because he has done wrong - that would be to take unreasonable vengeance (timoreitai). We punish (kolazei) a wrong-doer in order that he may not do wrong again (Protagoras 323 E). Clement of Alexandria (Stromateis 4.24; 7.16) defines kolasis as pure discipline, and timoria as the return of evil for evil. Aulus Gellius says that kolasis is given that a man may be corrected; timoria is given that dignity and authority may be vindicated (The Attic Nights7.14). The difference is quite clear in Greek and it is always observed. Timoria is retributive punishment. Kolasis is always given to amend and to cure.

“The word aionios is difficult to translate. It is used in the Old Testament* to describe Israel’s possession of the holy land (Genesis 17.8; 48.4); Aaron’s priesthood (Numbers 25,13); regulations about blood in the sacrifices and about the day of atonement (Leviticus 3.17; 16.34); great mountains and hills (Habakkuk 3.6). Now aion literally means an age, and aionios is literally age-long. In all the cases we have quoted the translation is everlasting or for ever, but in every case the thing described is a human thing, and will sometime come to an end. In every case aionios means lasting for a very long time; it can even mean lasting as long as the present world lasts; but it does not mean lasting for ever and ever throughout eternity.

“The Greek usage of aionios is even more suggestive. Plato in the Laws (10.12) says that body and soul are indestructible (anolethron), but they are not eternal (aionios) like the gods. In the Timaeus he says that time as we know it in this world is formed on the model of the nature which is aionios, eternal. The fact is that in Greek aionios can properly only describe that which is divine; in the true sense of the term only God is aionios. Aionios kolasis is therefore the disciplinary punishment, designed for the cure of men, which may last throughout many ages, and which only God can give.

“I can therefore be seen that the phrase in Matthew 25.46 does not commit us to a doctrine of eternal punishment in the sense in which it is usually taken. It may well describe a disciplinary, curative punishment, and it certainly describes the punishment which only God can inflict.”

~William Barclay, The Apostle's Creed, pg 189-190

 

[Jack]

Bibles that do NOT contain the word "Hell".

Scarlett's N.T. (1798)
The New Testament in Greek and English (Kneeland, 1823)
Young's Literal Translation (1891)
Twentieth Century New Testament (1900)
Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (reprinted, 1902)
Fenton's Holy Bible in Modern English (1903)
Weymouth's New Testament in Modern Speech (1903)
The New Testament, James Moffat, (1917)
Jewish Publication Society Bible Old Testament (1917)
Panin's Numeric English New Testament (1914)
The New Testament, Charles B. Williams, 1937
The People's New Covenant (Overbury, 1925)
Hanson's New Covenant (1884)
Western N.T. (1926)
NT of our Lord and Savior Anointed (Tomanek, 1958)
Concordant Literal NT (1983)
he N.T., A Translation (Clementson, 1938)
Emphatic Diaglott, Greek/English Interlinear (Wilson, 1942)
New American Bible (1970)
Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible (1976)
Tanakh, The Holy Scriptures, Old Testament (1985)
The New Testament, A New Translation (Greber, 1980)
Christian Bible (1991)
The Scriptures (1993)
World English Bible (in progress)
Orthodox Jewish Brit Chadasha [NT Only]
Original Bible Project (Dr. James Tabor, still in translation)
Zondervan Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1975)**
Int. NASB-NIV Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1993)**
A Critical Paraphrase of the N.T. by Vincent T. Roth (1960)
New Testament, Recovery Version, Living Stream Ministry, 1991
New American Bible Revised Edition (NABRE)
Roman Catholic Holy Bible In Its Original Order, Fred R. Coulter, 2007
Etymological N.T. (An Ultra Literal Translation, 2011, Michael Wine)
Aramaic Peshitta New Testament, 2006, Janet M. Magiera
MirrorWord N.T. (Francois du Toit) still in translation
Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ, Electronic Ver. (Tentmaker Ministries)
The Source N.T. (Dr. Ann Nyland), 2004, 2007
Jonathan Mitchell N.T. (Jonathan Mitchell) 2009
The Scriptures, 2016
Tree of Life Version, Baker Bookhouse, 2016******
The New Testament (David Bentley Hart) Yale University Press, 2017

Do they contain Luke 16? How about "lake of fire"? "everlasting fire"? "eternal punishment"? "furnace of fire"?

 

[Behold]

Is God who elected those who he would save,

John Calvin elected those whom God would save.
Dont be his theological puppet.


Also, Heaven and Hell are just destinations for Spirits.

If the Spirit in a person is not born again, then they are the child of the devil and will end up with Him, after they die.
That's really not that hard to understand... as being that "Hell is created for the DEVIL and His angels" , then there you go.

If the Spirit in a person is this.........>"Jesus said, you must be born again"......that THAT Spirit has now been given a "new birth" "in Christ" and now having become a SPIRITUAL Son/Daughter of Christ's Father, they end with God , after they die.

 

[St. SteVen]

The answer is no. His will is that all men be saved.
But he is also just and has too

A friend from another forum had this to say.

From Lazarus Short

God's sovereign Will is clear: that all men come to salvation in Him. Will the Will of God not prevail?

The Calvinists assert that God is able to save all, but chooses not to.
The Arminians counter that He would like to save all, but cannot.
There is a third position, that God is both WILLING and ABLE to save all.

I wrestled with this idea, and it is not too difficult to find that He is willing...but is He able?
Then, one day it came to me in a flash: God is omnipotent, so OF COURSE He is able to save all.
No "mental gymnastics" are required, and no overturning, negation or alteration of His Will or His Word is required,
just the realization that the doctrine of eternal damnation is wrong. I could not find it in the KJV,
and the "evidence" quoted by "hell" advocates is small and contradicted
by many more Scriptures that I can quote all day.

 

[Behold]

There is a third position, that God is both WILLING and ABLE to save all.

There is only one True Position.

The Cross of Christ is offered to the "world".

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:

There is a third position, that God is both WILLING and ABLE to save all.

There is only one True Position.

The Cross of Christ is offered to the "world".

What is "true" about that?
All, all, all, all, all, the whole world, and the world.
Offered? Define "is" and "has".

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

 

[St. SteVen]

The Cross of Christ is offered to the "world".

What does that even mean?
Did you accept the "offered" "Cross of Christ"?

 

[PinSeeker]

No, I don't. Jesus promised the thief that very day, in harmony with the test of scripture, that he would be resurrected and be with Jesus in paradise.

Ah, you're turning the verse into something other than it is. Jesus said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today..." (not "someday") "...you will be with me in paradise." The Greek word we translate 'today,' there, Brakelite, is σήμερον (sēmeron), and is properly understood as ~ paraphrasing ~ "this event will happen this very day." This is just one of the New World Translation's many, many intentional re-engineerings of Scripture.

Jesus didn't make one rule for the thief and another time for everyone else. The resurrection is the Christians hope.

Sure, but regarding Luke 23:43 specifically (above), this is non sequitur.

What is the spirit?. Bible verses please.

LOL! I'm not going down that Jehovah's Witness wild goose chase with you, Brakelite. I'll just say two irrefutable things and leave it at this, that God is spirit (John 4:24), and all men, male and female, are made in His image (Genesis 1:27).

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Behold]

St. SteVen said:
1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Yes,

John 3:16....>"for God so loved THE WORLD", that He GAVE.........= Jesus on the Cross.

Calvin rewrote that as "For God so loved only the Elect"..

Here is the truth....... = God who is Christ in the FLESH, said.....>"If i be lifted up (on the Cross) i well draw ALL <<<<<< to me."

John the Heretic Calvin, changed all this with his "pre-destined elect" "doctrine of devils' into...>>"God chooses" and "only the elect".

Here is the reality..

Faith elects....
God saves, = ALL who give God their FAITH, and noone is made, caused, forced, coerced, to choose Christ.

 

[St. Joseph]

A friend from another forum had this to say.

From Lazarus Short

God's sovereign Will is clear: that all men come to salvation in Him. Will the Will of God not prevail?

The Calvinists assert that God is able to save all, but chooses not to.
The Arminians counter that He would like to save all, but cannot.
There is a third position, that God is both WILLING and ABLE to save all.

I wrestled with this idea, and it is not too difficult to find that He is willing...but is He able?
Then, one day it came to me in a flash: God is omnipotent, so OF COURSE He is able to save all.
No "mental gymnastics" are required, and no overturning, negation or alteration of His Will or His Word is required,
just the realization that the doctrine of eternal damnation is wrong. I could not find it in the KJV,
and the "evidence" quoted by "hell" advocates is small and contradicted
by many more Scriptures that I can quote all day.

If God is going to save all in the end no matter what,what was the use in Christ ,the Messiah even coming? Why all the sacrifices before Christ? Why did God waste his time on a plan of salvation down through the ages?

 

[MatthewG]

God never wasted time to restore creation back to the way it was.


The only way to experience it though is faith.

 

[St. SteVen]

Here is the reality..

Faith elects....
God saves, = ALL who give God their FAITH, and noone is made, caused, forced, coerced, to choose Christ.

I agree. (with explanation)

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection) Scriptural support below.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: Isaiah 45:23; Romans 14:11; Revelation 15:4

 

[Behold]

I agree. (with explanation)

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved.

To "Be saved" you have to know why you need to be....
So, this is the "Preaching of the Cross'.....

A person can't repent of their unbelief, unless they hear WHY they should and what this means...

They have to hear the "message of Reconciliation"..

2nd Corinthians 5:19

The "Good News"

The "Gospel of the Grace of God"

"Paul's Gospel".

A person, an unbeliever has to come to "the knowledge of the Truth"......and This is Jesus...>He is THE Truth, and the Cross of Christ is the only offer from God that allows for God's Salvation to be imputed, ... given to you as a GIFT.

Jesus is in Fact, The Lord..... And every knee will bow and confess it...... no matter if they are in belief or in unbelief.....however, He is not the Personal Lord of anyone, unless He becomes their Savior......first.

 

[St. SteVen]

If God is going to save all in the end no matter what,what was the use in Christ ,the Messiah even coming? Why all the sacrifices before Christ? Why did God waste his time on a plan of salvation down through the ages?

Christ is the key to God saving all. Here's how it works.
Everything hinges on the acts of the two Adams.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

 

[St. SteVen]

To "Be saved" you have to know why you need to be....
So, this is the "Preaching of the Cross'.....

A person can't repent of their unbelief, unless they hear WHY they should and what this means...

They have to hear the "message of Reconciliation"..

2nd Corinthians 5:19

The "Good News"

The "Gospel of the Grace of God"

"Paul's Gospel".

A person, an unbeliever has to come to "the knowledge of the Truth"......and This is Jesus...>He is THE Truth, and the Cross of Christ is the only offer from God that allows for God's Salvation to be imputed, ... given to you as a GIFT.

Jesus is in Fact, The Lord..... And every knee will bow and confess it...... no matter if they are in belief or in unbelief.....however, He is not the Personal Lord of anyone, unless He becomes their Savior......first.

I recognize that as the evangelical Protestant "gospel".
How would a Catholic, or Orthodox Christian state that?
Probably not the same way, right?

What is the means of inheriting the kingdom in Matthew chapter 25?

Matthew 25:34-36 NIV
“Then the King will say to those on his right,
‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance,
the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat,
I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink,
I was a stranger and you invited me in,
36 I needed clothes and you clothed me,
I was sick and you looked after me,
I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

 

[St. SteVen]

Jesus is in Fact, The Lord..... And every knee will bow and confess it...... no matter if they are in belief or in unbelief.....however, He is not the Personal Lord of anyone, unless He becomes their Savior......first.

Perhaps you didn't read/understand the definition? (whole-heartedly, and without reservation)

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

 

[St. Joseph]

Christ is the key to God saving all. Here's how it works.
Everything hinges on the acts of the two Adams.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteo

It all boils down to accepting Christ or face the consequences