Does God Love Everyone

[jiggyfly]

God could have saved EVERYONE if He chose to. He didn't.

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me. John 12:32



And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. Acts 3:20&21


For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God Romans 14:11


That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:10&11

For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven. Colossians 1:19&20


For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 1Tim 4:10

 

[Duckybill]

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me. John 12:32

And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. Acts 3:20&21

For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God Romans 14:11

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:10&11

For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven. Colossians 1:19&20

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 1Tim 4:10

None of which means that God will save everyone. The majority will spend eternity in Hell. God offers mercy to those who surrender absolutely. The majority reject His offer.

Mt 7 Narrow is the way and FEW there be...

 

[jiggyfly]

None of which means that God will save everyone. The majority will spend eternity in Hell. God offers mercy to those who surrender absolutely. The majority reject His offer.

Mt 7 Narrow is the way and FEW there be...

Have you ever done a word study on olam (Hebrew) , aion or aionios (Greek)?

Does God love His enemies?

 

[Duckybill]

Have you ever done a word study on olam (Hebrew) , aion or aionios (Greek)?

Elaborate if you like, but it is quite clear that the majority will spend eternity in Hell.

Does God love His enemies?

Did God drown everyone on Earth but 8 to make an example for those who live ungodly lives?

2 Peter 2:4-6 (NKJV)
[sup]4 [/sup]For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; [sup]5 [/sup]and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; [sup]6 [/sup]and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;

How many did Jesus say would be saved?

Mt 7 Narrow is the way, and FEW there be that find it ...

How many are a FEW? Noah and Lot had a very good idea.

 

[jiggyfly]

Elaborate if you like, but it is quite clear that the majority will spend eternity in Hell.

Did God drown everyone on Earth but 8 to make an example for those who live ungodly lives?

2 Peter 2:4-6 (NKJV)
[sup]4 [/sup]For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; [sup]5 [/sup]and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; [sup]6 [/sup]and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;

How many did Jesus say would be saved?

Mt 7 Narrow is the way, and FEW there be that find it ...

How many are a FEW? Noah and Lot had a very good idea.

Seeing how you avoided my questions I will assume you have never done a word study on Olam, aion and aionios. Seems that the question of God loving His enemies is too unsettling for you but you should think on it.

To answer your question correctly first I need to understand what you are referring to as "saved". Saved from what?


How many did Jesus come to save?

 

[Duckybill]

Seeing how you avoided my questions I will assume you have never done a word study on Olam, aion and aionios. Seems that the question of God loving His enemies is too unsettling for you but you should think on it.

Which verses are you referring to?

To answer your question correctly first I need to understand what you are referring to as "saved". Saved from what?

Revelation 20:15 (NKJV)
[sup]15 [/sup]And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

How many did Jesus come to save?

Tell us.

 

[jiggyfly]

Which verses are you referring to?

I wasn't referring to any verses in particular just the Hebrew word olam and the Greek words aion and aionios.

Revelation 20:15 (NKJV)
[sup]15 [/sup]And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

And then what happens?

Tell us.

All mankind.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look! There is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

John 3:17
God did not send his Son into the world to condemn it, but to save it.

Acts 3:21
For he must remain in heaven until the time for the final restoration of all things, as God promised long ago through his prophets.

Romans 5:18
Yes, Adam's one sin brought condemnation upon everyone, but Christ's one act of righteousness makes all people right in God's sight and gives them life.


Ephesians 1:10
And this is his plan: At the right time he will bring everything together under the authority of Christ--everything in heaven and on earth.


Colossians 1:19&20
For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ, and by him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of his blood on the cross.


1Timothy 4:10
We work hard and suffer much [fn] in order that people will believe the truth, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and particularly of those who believe.
[font="'trebuchet ms"]
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1John 2:2
He is the sacrifice for our sins. He takes away not only our sins but the sins of all the world.


Revelation 5:13
And then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea. They also sang: "Blessing and honor and glory and power belong to the one sitting on the throne and to the Lamb forever and ever."




[font="'trebuchet ms"]Let me know if you need more, there are several hundred scriptures that clarify the reconciliation of everyone.[/font]

 

[Duckybill]

I wasn't referring to any verses in particular just the Hebrew word olam and the Greek words aion and aionios.

Are you saying all of our English translations are wrong and you are right?

And then what happens?

Some really scary stuff!

Mark 9:43-48 (NKJV)
[sup]43 [/sup]If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched-- [sup]44 [/sup]where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.'
[sup]45 [/sup]And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched-- [sup]46 [/sup]where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.' [sup]47 [/sup]And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire-- [sup]48 [/sup]where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.'

All mankind.

So then, we can murder, rape, lie, steal, etc. and still be saved?

Let me know if you need more, there are several hundred scriptures that clarify the reconciliation of everyone.

And none mean what you are preaching.

Revelation 14:9-11 (NKJV)
[sup]9 [/sup]Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, [sup]10 [/sup]he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. [sup]11 [/sup]And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

 

[jiggyfly]

'

So then, we can murder, rape, lie, steal, etc. and still be saved?

And none mean what you are preaching.

Have you ever told a lie? Did Christ save you?

Then pray tell what do they mean???

 

[TexUs]

Have you ever told a lie? Did Christ save you?

Then pray tell what do they mean???

It's simple enough... The cross was sufficient for all but effective for few.

 

[TexUs]

All mankind.

I was going to avoid the verse by verse but being I've seen you peddle this "everyone is saved" nonsense I feel I must share...

John 1:29

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look! There is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

For someone who harps about original text, you sure bastardized this one.
"World" here is "kosmos" which is also used later in John: "Many people, because they had heard that he had performed this sign, went out to meet him. So the Pharisees said to one another, “See, this is getting us nowhere. Look how the whole world has gone after him!”


So it is an ASSUMPTION that Kosmos refers to the global world. In fact, to the Greeks, kosmos could mean either local or universal. It all depended upon context, so you cannot use this word alone to base a doctrine off of (which is what you've done).
The FACT is we don't have an English equivalent word for it. So it doesn't matter how it was translated, it'd be wrong in some cases. The English language quite frankly, sucks.


But as I said, you've based the entire argument of your verse here on that one word, and I've shown the flaw in that, so I'll just move on.


You must believe the Bible to contradict itself, and God to contradict himself (which makes him a liar) because you cannot believe "Everyone is saved" and "He who believes" at the same time.

John 3:17

God did not send his Son into the world to condemn it, but to save it.

There's that pesky "kosmos" again... You're doing some serious proof-texting to ignore the "whoever believes" in the previous verse to support your theory.

Acts 3:21
For he must remain in heaven until the time for the final restoration of all things, as God promised long ago through his prophets.

You realize Peter starts out this sermon with a call to repentance and turning to God, right?


Also, you don't think they spoke in analogies then, just as we do today? Not everything is literal. God will restore everything. New earth. It will be as he wishes it to be (which defines "restore"... Putting it back the way it needs to be). The way it needs to be includes sorting the sheep from the goats.

Romans 5:18

Yes, Adam's one sin brought condemnation upon everyone, but Christ's one act of righteousness makes all people right in God's sight and gives them life.

If I say, "all people on the road are idiots" does that mean literally ALL? Or is it a figure of speech, once more, that tells us that mankind (not all man) has the ability for eternal life?


Plus, please read context and stop proof texting. "Therefore" means Paul is linking ideas together (something previously mentioned). I should have quoted the entire book of Romans for you but just read what I've pasted. The ideas all link together, the thought and flow is uniform. How do you think Paul would feel about taking one sentence out of context of his train of thought?


Therefore, since we have been justified by faith,[sup](B)[/sup] we[sup][a][/sup] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.[sup]2[/sup]Through him we have also[sup](C)[/sup] obtained access by faith[sup][b][/sup] into this grace[sup](D)[/sup] in which we stand, and[sup](E)[/sup] we[sup][c][/sup] rejoice[sup][d][/sup]in hope of the glory of God. [sup]3[/sup]More than that, we[sup](F)[/sup] rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering[sup](G)[/sup] produces endurance, [sup]4[/sup]and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, [sup]5[/sup]and[sup](H)[/sup] hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love[sup](I)[/sup] has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. [sup]6[/sup]For[sup](J)[/sup] while we were still weak, at the right time[sup](K)[/sup] Christ died for the ungodly. [sup]7[/sup]For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— [sup]8[/sup]but[sup](L)[/sup] God shows his love for us in that[sup](M)[/sup] while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. [sup]9[/sup]Since, therefore,[sup](N)[/sup] we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from[sup](O)[/sup] the wrath of God. [sup]10[/sup]For if[sup](P)[/sup] while we were enemies[sup](Q)[/sup] we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by[sup](R)[/sup] his life.[sup]11[/sup]More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received[sup](S)[/sup]reconciliation.


Death in Adam, Life in Christ
[sup]12[/sup]Therefore, just as[sup](T)[/sup] sin came into the world through one man, and[sup](U)[/sup] death through sin, and[sup](V)[/sup] so death spread to all men because[sup](W)[/sup] all sinned— [sup]13[/sup]for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but[sup](X)[/sup] sin is not counted where there is no law. [sup]14[/sup]Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not[sup](Y)[/sup]like the transgression of Adam,[sup](Z)[/sup] who was a type of[sup](AA)[/sup] the one who was to come. [sup]15[/sup]But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for[sup](AB)[/sup] many. [sup]16[/sup]And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For[sup](AC)[/sup] the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought[sup](AD)[/sup] justification. [sup]17[/sup]For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness[sup](AE)[/sup] reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

[sup]18[/sup]Therefore, as one trespass[sup][e][/sup] led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness[sup][f][/sup] leads to justification and life for[sup](AF)[/sup] all men. [sup]19[/sup]For as by the one man’s[sup](AG)[/sup] disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s[sup](AH)[/sup] obedience the many will be made righteous. [sup]20[/sup]Now[sup](AI)[/sup] the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased,[sup](AJ)[/sup] grace abounded all the more, [sup]21[/sup]so that,[sup](AK)[/sup] as sin reigned in death,[sup](AL)[/sup] grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Ephesians 1:10
And this is his plan: At the right time he will bring everything together under the authority of Christ--everything in heaven and on earth.

And who was this letter written to? Read everything prior to 1:10.
And then keep reading, and note verse 13.
In him you also, when you heard[sup](AF)[/sup] the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him,[sup](AG)[/sup] were sealed with the[sup](AH)[/sup] promised Holy Spirit, who is[sup](AI)[/sup] the guarantee[sup][d][/sup] of our[sup](AJ)[/sup] inheritance until[sup](AK)[/sup] we acquire[sup](AL)[/sup] possession of it,[sup][e][/sup][sup](AM)[/sup] to the praise of his glory.

Colossians 1:19&20
For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ, and by him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of his blood on the cross.

Wow, more Scripture taken out of context. Who is to be reconciled? Keep reading.
[sup]21[/sup][sup](AZ)[/sup] And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind,[sup](BA)[/sup] doing evil deeds, [sup]22[/sup]he has now reconciled[sup](BB)[/sup] in his body of flesh by his death,[sup](BC)[/sup] in order to present you holy and blameless and[sup](BD)[/sup] above reproach before him, [sup]23[/sup][sup](BE)[/sup]if indeed you continue in the faith,[sup](BF)[/sup] stable and steadfast, not shifting from[sup](BG)[/sup] the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed[sup](BH)[/sup] in all creation[sup][g][/sup] under heaven,[sup](BI)[/sup] and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

1Timothy 4:10
We work hard and suffer much [fn] in order that people will believe the truth, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and particularly of those who believe.

Funny you quote this because it doesn't actually help your argument but just reinforced what I've said.


He's sufficient for all but effective for few.
He's the Savior (sufficiency) for all people, but effective (IE, "especially") for only those who believe.

1John 2:2

He is the sacrifice for our sins. He takes away not only our sins but the sins of all the world.

1 John was written to a primarily Jewish audience so that should answer the question of who "our sins" meant to his audience. It's not just for the Jews but for everyone!


Also, read the same language in John 11:
He did not say this of his own accord, but[sup](BN)[/sup] being high priest that year[sup](BO)[/sup] he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, and[sup](BP)[/sup] not for the nation only, but also[sup](BQ)[/sup] to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.


Much more clear now that it's taken in Biblical context and the audience is understood, yes?

Revelation 5:13

And then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea. They also sang: "Blessing and honor and glory and power belong to the one sitting on the throne and to the Lamb forever and ever."

Prophecy is rarely literal.
Scripture says elsewhere that creation sings to the glory of God so I don't see why this is a problem, either. Isn't creation already speaking to his glory? Isn't everything already happening for his glory?
Won't punishing the wicked speak to his glory?
I think yes to all of the above.

 

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I read this lesson, and wanted to share this with more believers. I have heard that God loves everyone. Hopefully this lesson will give light to those that believe God loves everyone!!!
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Does God Love Everyone?

Christendom repeatedly say things like, “God loves us all so much that He will save us all”; or “He hates the sin, but loves the sinner”; or "God is love, and will not send anyone to hell.” Christendom teaches that God is so full of love, and that He simply cannot send anyone to eternal hell fire. It is against His infinite love. They want God to forgive all, even those who openly reject Him and die cursing God. I must admit, it is nice to think of God's love being so infinitely great that all will ultimately be saved. The Lake of Fire (Hell) is a terrible place and I don't want anyone to go there, but it does not matter what I think. All that matters is what the Bible says. God is love: (1John:4:8), but God also punishes the sinner and hates all who do iniquity. God is not one sided. He is not simply an infinitely loving God. He is also infinitely just. He must deal with sin. He must punish the sinner. He cannot lie: (Titus1:2) “which God, that cannot lie,” In the truth of God's word, we find that the Lord has provided one way by which we may be saved. That single way is through Jesus' sacrifice. For all who trust in Him, and do His commandments, salvation will come. But to those who turn away, God's wrath abides upon them: (John 3:36) He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Does God hate anyone? The answer is yes.
(Psalm 5:5) The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
(Psalm11:5) The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
(Lev.20:23) “Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them.” (Prov 6:16-19) (v.16) These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him (v.17) A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,(v.18) An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,(v.19) A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
(Hosea 9:15) All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.
Are these verses hard to read? Do they make you feel uncomfortable? They should. God hates sin. But, he does not punish sin. He punishes the sinner. Sin cannot be tied up and thrown into a fire. It cannot be put in a box or glued to a stick. It is rebellion. It is rebellion in the heart! It is breaking God's Law. Sin occurs inside the heart which is the mind of people. Therefore, God must punish the sinner. (Is.26:21) “For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity:” Why? Because He is both Holy and Just and the person who sins offends God. God's Holy and Just character will not allow Him to ignore this offense. Remember that: (Num.23:19) “God is not a man, that he should lie;”
God's Law is Perfect
When God said, (Gen 1:3) “Let there be light,” it happened. When He commanded that the oceans be, they came into existence. God's word is powerful. What He says is never futile, empty, or without power. The Law is a reflection of God's character. It is pure: (Pro.30:5) “Every word of God is pure:” and perfect: (Psalm 19:7) “The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul:” It is powerful: (Heb 4:12) “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword,” The Ten Commandments reflect God's holiness and justice. These commandments are not without punishments. A law without consequences is only an empty slogan. To sin is to break God's Law- (1John 3:4) “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law” - and offend His character. To sin means to challenge His character and authority. It means you go against His word. Keep in mind, (He.6:18) “it was impossible for God to lie,” His word is true. (Is 55:11) “So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it”. He has said it, and it will be accomplished. But, praise be to God, (Rom.5:6) “in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” There is no way we can be clean before God. That is why God became one of us (John 1:1,14; Heb.2:17), to take our place and become sin on our behalf (2 Cor.5:21). Therefore, people have two options: Trust Jesus, God in flesh, as your savior and put your faith in the sacrifice that He made on the cross and in nothing you do.
Reject Jesus and the sacrifice that He made and let the penalty of the Law fall upon you. Either God pays or you do, forever. Which will it be? (Heb 10:26) “For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins”. If there is no sacrifice available for you, then God's wrath abides upon you because He hates sin and your sin is not removed (John 3:36). Trust Jesus alone or the wrath of God will abide upon you forever. The sobering fact is that God is so holy and righteous that He hates the sinner (Psalm 5:5, Lev.20:23, Prov.6:16-19, Hos.9:15). Some may say that we should say that God only hates the sin, but loves the sinner. But the above scriptures speak contrary to that. (Pro.8:17) “I love them that love me;” (John 14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.
It is better to accept the love of God found in Jesus than to reject it and suffer His wrath. I believe therefore I speak. Always remember that there is peace in Jesus. May the Lord God give skill and understanding to all who truly seek the truth.
In Jesus name, A-MEN.

This lesson was to enlighten other believers, just as I've been enlighten by the teaching and teachers from this website.....May the Lord have a blessing to the reading and doing of his word.
In Jesus name AMEN!!!!!

I found your study to be accurate and enlightening.

Unfortunately the notion that any sort of behaviour will be excused in the name of love these days.
Divine love is meant to attract us away from sin, not to excuse it or to license it.

It is a sign of the times that even the love of God is debauched and corrupted in the minds of so many.

 

[jiggyfly]

I was going to avoid the verse by verse but being I've seen you peddle this "everyone is saved" nonsense I feel I must share...


For someone who harps about original text, you sure bastardized this one.
"World" here is "kosmos" which is also used later in John: "Many people, because they had heard that he had performed this sign, went out to meet him. So the Pharisees said to one another, “See, this is getting us nowhere. Look how the whole world has gone after him!”

So it is an ASSUMPTION that Kosmos refers to the global world. In fact, to the Greeks, kosmos could mean either local or universal. It all depended upon context, so you cannot use this word alone to base a doctrine off of (which is what you've done).
The FACT is we don't have an English equivalent word for it. So it doesn't matter how it was translated, it'd be wrong in some cases. The English language quite frankly, sucks.

But as I said, you've based the entire argument of your verse here on that one word, and I've shown the flaw in that, so I'll just move on.

You must believe the Bible to contradict itself, and God to contradict himself (which makes him a liar) because you cannot believe "Everyone is saved" and "He who believes" at the same time.


There's that pesky "kosmos" again... You're doing some serious proof-texting to ignore the "whoever believes" in the previous verse to support your theory.


You realize Peter starts out this sermon with a call to repentance and turning to God, right?

Also, you don't think they spoke in analogies then, just as we do today? Not everything is literal. God will restore everything. New earth. It will be as he wishes it to be (which defines "restore"... Putting it back the way it needs to be). The way it needs to be includes sorting the sheep from the goats.


If I say, "all people on the road are idiots" does that mean literally ALL? Or is it a figure of speech, once more, that tells us that mankind (not all man) has the ability for eternal life?

Plus, please read context and stop proof texting. "Therefore" means Paul is linking ideas together (something previously mentioned). I should have quoted the entire book of Romans for you but just read what I've pasted. The ideas all link together, the thought and flow is uniform. How do you think Paul would feel about taking one sentence out of context of his train of thought?

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith,[sup](B)[/sup] we[sup][a][/sup] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.[sup]2[/sup]Through him we have also[sup](C)[/sup] obtained access by faith[sup][b][/sup] into this grace[sup](D)[/sup] in which we stand, and[sup](E)[/sup] we[sup][c][/sup] rejoice[sup][d][/sup]in hope of the glory of God. [sup]3[/sup]More than that, we[sup](F)[/sup] rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering[sup](G)[/sup] produces endurance, [sup]4[/sup]and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, [sup]5[/sup]and[sup](H)[/sup] hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love[sup](I)[/sup] has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. [sup]6[/sup]For[sup](J)[/sup] while we were still weak, at the right time[sup](K)[/sup] Christ died for the ungodly. [sup]7[/sup]For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— [sup]8[/sup]but[sup](L)[/sup] God shows his love for us in that[sup](M)[/sup] while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. [sup]9[/sup]Since, therefore,[sup](N)[/sup] we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from[sup](O)[/sup] the wrath of God. [sup]10[/sup]For if[sup](P)[/sup] while we were enemies[sup](Q)[/sup] we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by[sup](R)[/sup] his life.[sup]11[/sup]More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received[sup](S)[/sup]reconciliation.


Death in Adam, Life in Christ
[sup]12[/sup]Therefore, just as[sup](T)[/sup] sin came into the world through one man, and[sup](U)[/sup] death through sin, and[sup](V)[/sup] so death spread to all men because[sup](W)[/sup] all sinned— [sup]13[/sup]for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but[sup](X)[/sup] sin is not counted where there is no law. [sup]14[/sup]Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not[sup](Y)[/sup]like the transgression of Adam,[sup](Z)[/sup] who was a type of[sup](AA)[/sup] the one who was to come. [sup]15[/sup]But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for[sup](AB)[/sup] many. [sup]16[/sup]And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For[sup](AC)[/sup] the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought[sup](AD)[/sup] justification. [sup]17[/sup]For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness[sup](AE)[/sup] reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

[sup]18[/sup]Therefore, as one trespass[sup][e][/sup] led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness[sup][f][/sup] leads to justification and life for[sup](AF)[/sup] all men. [sup]19[/sup]For as by the one man’s[sup](AG)[/sup] disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s[sup](AH)[/sup] obedience the many will be made righteous. [sup]20[/sup]Now[sup](AI)[/sup] the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased,[sup](AJ)[/sup] grace abounded all the more, [sup]21[/sup]so that,[sup](AK)[/sup] as sin reigned in death,[sup](AL)[/sup] grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


And who was this letter written to? Read everything prior to 1:10.
And then keep reading, and note verse 13.
In him you also, when you heard[sup](AF)[/sup] the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him,[sup](AG)[/sup] were sealed with the[sup](AH)[/sup] promised Holy Spirit, who is[sup](AI)[/sup] the guarantee[sup][d][/sup] of our[sup](AJ)[/sup] inheritance until[sup](AK)[/sup] we acquire[sup](AL)[/sup] possession of it,[sup][e][/sup][sup](AM)[/sup] to the praise of his glory.


Wow, more Scripture taken out of context. Who is to be reconciled? Keep reading.
[sup]21[/sup][sup](AZ)[/sup] And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind,[sup](BA)[/sup] doing evil deeds, [sup]22[/sup]he has now reconciled[sup](BB)[/sup] in his body of flesh by his death,[sup](BC)[/sup] in order to present you holy and blameless and[sup](BD)[/sup] above reproach before him, [sup]23[/sup][sup](BE)[/sup]if indeed you continue in the faith,[sup](BF)[/sup] stable and steadfast, not shifting from[sup](BG)[/sup] the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed[sup](BH)[/sup] in all creation[sup][g][/sup] under heaven,[sup](BI)[/sup] and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Funny you quote this because it doesn't actually help your argument but just reinforced what I've said.

He's sufficient for all but effective for few.
He's the Savior (sufficiency) for all people, but effective (IE, "especially") for only those who believe.


1 John was written to a primarily Jewish audience so that should answer the question of who "our sins" meant to his audience. It's not just for the Jews but for everyone!

Also, read the same language in John 11:
He did not say this of his own accord, but[sup](BN)[/sup] being high priest that year[sup](BO)[/sup] he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, and[sup](BP)[/sup] not for the nation only, but also[sup](BQ)[/sup] to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.


Much more clear now that it's taken in Biblical context and the audience is understood, yes?


Prophecy is rarely literal.
Scripture says elsewhere that creation sings to the glory of God so I don't see why this is a problem, either. Isn't creation already speaking to his glory? Isn't everything already happening for his glory?
Won't punishing the wicked speak to his glory?
I think yes to all of the above.

Nice butcher job on the scriptures

Are you by chance related to Jonah or the prodigal's brother? LOL.

 

[TexUs]

The only butcher job is your own and anyone that can pick up their Bible and read the context knows it.

 

[jiggyfly]

The only butcher job is your own and anyone that can pick up their Bible and read the context knows it.

Then why the debate??