Does God mind if idols of 'saints' are worshipped in church?

[Illuminator]

Does God mind if idols of 'saints' are worshipped in church?​

Of course minds. Why did you even need to ask that question @Hobie ?

Hobie can't read or comprehend my reply to the ridiculous charge of statue worship, and neither can you. And neither can a certain staff member obsessed with same stupid canard 2 or 3 times a week. The thread title is a straw man fallacy. Statues of Jesus and the saints are not idols and they are not worshipped. I am still waiting for that verse that forbids Scripture in art form.
Post #19 that you ignored shatters the usual anti-Catholic myth.

 

[Hobie]

You refuse to understand the term "venerate". We have to resort to dictionaries because you don't understand plain English.

That is in reference to pagan gods, not statues of Jesus and the saints. Show me a verse that forbids Scripture in art form. There is no such verse. Your iconoclasm is unbiblical, supported by twisting Scripture.

The Catholic Church does not believe any statue or image has any power in and of itself. The beauty of statues and icons move us to the contemplation of the Word of God as he is himself or as he works in his saints. And, according to Scripture, as well as the testimony of the centuries, God even uses them at times to impart blessings (e.g., healings) according to his providential plan.

While it can certainly be understood how a superficial reading of the first commandment could lead one to believe we Catholics are in grave error with regard to our use of statues and icons, the key to a proper understanding of the first commandment is found at the very end of that same commandment, in verse 5 of Exodus 20: “You shall not bow down to them or serve [adore] them.”

The Lord did not prohibit statues; he prohibited the adoration of them. If God truly meant that we were not to possess any statues at all, then he would later contradict himself. Just five chapters after this commandment in Exodus 20, God commanded Moses to build the ark of the Covenant, which would contain the presence of God and was to be venerated as the holiest place in all of Israel. (Ex. 25:18–19)
read more here

It is right to warn people against the sin of idolatry when they are committing it. But calling Catholics idolaters because they have images of Christ and the saints is based on misunderstanding or ignorance of what the Bible says about the purpose and uses (both good and bad) of statues.

Anti-Catholic writer Loraine Boettner, in his book Roman Catholicism, makes the blanket statement, “God has forbidden the use of images in worship” (281). Yet if people were to “search the scriptures” (John 5:39), they would find the opposite is true. God forbade the worship of statues, but he did not forbid the religious use of statues. Instead, he actually commanded their use in religious contexts!

People who oppose religious statuary forget about the many passages where the Lord commands the making of statues.
Ex. 25:18–20 Ezekiel 41:17–18
read more here

Idolatry Condemned by the Church​

Since the days of the apostles, the Catholic Church has consistently condemned the sin of idolatry. The Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566) taught that idolatry is committed “by worshipping idols and images as God, or believing that they possess any divinity or virtue entitling them to our worship, by praying to, or reposing confidence in them” (374).

What anti-Catholics fail to recognize is the distinction between thinking a piece of stone or plaster is a god and desiring to visually remember Christ and the saints in heaven by making statues in their honor. The making and use of religious statues is a thoroughly biblical practice. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know his Bible.

venerate Add to list Share​

/ˌvɛnəˈreɪt/​

/ˈvɛnəreɪt/​

IPA guide
Other forms: venerated; venerates; venerating
To venerate is to worship, adore, be in awe of. You probably don't venerate your teacher or boss; however, you may act like you do!
The word hasn't come far from its Latin roots in venerari, "to worship."

 

[Hobie]

Does God mind if idols of 'saints' are worshipped in church?​

Of course minds. Why did you even need to ask that question @Hobie ?

Exodus 20:3-5​

“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

Well, it seems some appear to disagree with that..

 

[Illuminator]

Well, it seems some appear to disagree with that..

I explained WHY this thread title is fallacious in post #19 that you keep running from.

 

[Hobie]

I explained WHY this thread title is fallacious in post #19 that you keep running from.

Well here is Websters definition...

venerate​

verb​

ven·er·ate ˈve-nə-ˌrāt

venerated; venerating
Synonyms of venerate
transitive verb
1
: to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference

2
: to honor (an icon, a relic, etc.) with a ritual act of devotion

 

[Hobie]

You refuse to understand the term "venerate". We have to resort to dictionaries because you don't understand plain English.

That is in reference to pagan gods, not statues of Jesus and the saints. Show me a verse that forbids Scripture in art form. There is no such verse. Your iconoclasm is unbiblical, supported by twisting Scripture.

The Catholic Church does not believe any statue or image has any power in and of itself. The beauty of statues and icons move us to the contemplation of the Word of God as he is himself or as he works in his saints. And, according to Scripture, as well as the testimony of the centuries, God even uses them at times to impart blessings (e.g., healings) according to his providential plan.

While it can certainly be understood how a superficial reading of the first commandment could lead one to believe we Catholics are in grave error with regard to our use of statues and icons, the key to a proper understanding of the first commandment is found at the very end of that same commandment, in verse 5 of Exodus 20: “You shall not bow down to them or serve [adore] them.”

The Lord did not prohibit statues; he prohibited the adoration of them. If God truly meant that we were not to possess any statues at all, then he would later contradict himself. Just five chapters after this commandment in Exodus 20, God commanded Moses to build the ark of the Covenant, which would contain the presence of God and was to be venerated as the holiest place in all of Israel. (Ex. 25:18–19)
read more here

It is right to warn people against the sin of idolatry when they are committing it. But calling Catholics idolaters because they have images of Christ and the saints is based on misunderstanding or ignorance of what the Bible says about the purpose and uses (both good and bad) of statues.

Anti-Catholic writer Loraine Boettner, in his book Roman Catholicism, makes the blanket statement, “God has forbidden the use of images in worship” (281). Yet if people were to “search the scriptures” (John 5:39), they would find the opposite is true. God forbade the worship of statues, but he did not forbid the religious use of statues. Instead, he actually commanded their use in religious contexts!

People who oppose religious statuary forget about the many passages where the Lord commands the making of statues.
Ex. 25:18–20 Ezekiel 41:17–18
read more here

Idolatry Condemned by the Church​

Since the days of the apostles, the Catholic Church has consistently condemned the sin of idolatry. The Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566) taught that idolatry is committed “by worshipping idols and images as God, or believing that they possess any divinity or virtue entitling them to our worship, by praying to, or reposing confidence in them” (374).

What anti-Catholics fail to recognize is the distinction between thinking a piece of stone or plaster is a god and desiring to visually remember Christ and the saints in heaven by making statues in their honor. The making and use of religious statues is a thoroughly biblical practice. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know his Bible.

Listen when even those in the church see what is going on, its clear 'condemning it' then doing it is not working..
"The Catholic church has a long tradition of incorporating and adapting different forms of belief and practice from around the world. Often described as “inculturation”, at its worst this approach can become a form of religious imperialism. At its best, it means a faithfulness to the church’s core belief that God is present in all human cultures; a belief that the ultimate vocation of humanity “is one”, however diverse its myriad cultures. The Vatican said the statues were an “effigy of maternity and the sacredness of life”."The Guardian view on ‘pagan idols’ in the Vatican: church culture wars should concern us all | Editorial

 

[RedFan]

Listen when even those in the church see what is going on, its clear 'condemning it' then doing it is not working..
"The Catholic church has a long tradition of incorporating and adapting different forms of belief and practice from around the world. Often described as “inculturation”, at its worst this approach can become a form of religious imperialism. At its best, it means a faithfulness to the church’s core belief that God is present in all human cultures; a belief that the ultimate vocation of humanity “is one”, however diverse its myriad cultures. The Vatican said the statues were an “effigy of maternity and the sacredness of life”."The Guardian view on ‘pagan idols’ in the Vatican: church culture wars should concern us all | Editorial

Well, here is another perspective on the "inculturation" event you are referring to: The Pope, the Amazon, and Pachamama

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Does God mind if idols of 'saints' are worshipped in church?​

That is being an idolater engaging in idol worship and is listed in God's Word as one of the things that cause people to go to hell.

So yes this is a big problem for the Lord as He rejects those that engage in such un-godly activity

True Christians worship the Lord ONLY!

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[BarneyFife]

That is being an idolater engaging in idol worship and is listed in God's Word as one of the things that cause people to go to hell.

Wait, you can go to hell for breaking one of the ten commandments?

.

 

[Mink57]

Wait, you can go to hell for breaking one of the ten commandments?

.

Yes.

 

[Pearl]

Not many churches advocate worshiping statues of 'saints'.

 

[Pearl]

Yes.

What!!!

 

[Mink57]

What!!!

What part of 'yes' was unclear?

 

[Mink57]

Not many churches advocate worshiping statues of 'saints'.

Not many churches worship statues of saints...

...including the Catholic Church.

 

[Pearl]

What part of 'yes' was unclear?

Really? you believe that you can go to hell for breaking a commandment even if if you are a Christian. In my book Jesus paid the price for my sin so I don't have to go to hell. I like my God better than yours.

 

[Pearl]

Not many churches worship statues of saints...

...including the Catholic Church.

That has not been my experience. And somebody should tell them God doesn't like it.

 

[marks]

What anti-Catholics fail to recognize is the distinction between thinking a piece of stone or plaster is a god and desiring to visually remember Christ and the saints in heaven by making statues in their honor. The making and use of religious statues is a thoroughly biblical practice. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know his Bible.

Where exactly does God tell us to do this?

Much love!

 

[Mink57]

Really? you believe that you can go to hell for breaking a commandment even if if you are a Christian. In my book Jesus paid the price for my sin so I don't have to go to hell. I like my God better than yours.

So, you believe that IF you commit murder...and feel NO REMORSE, you can't go to hell...?

Wow...just...........wow.

Sorry, but IF you're a Christian, you wouldn't break ANY Commandment

 

[marks]

You don't talk to priests, you are afraid to. Besides, priests have better things to do than to argue with brainwashed bigots. Furthermore, you are trying to prove God was wrong to command Moses to make a bronze serpent, that you can't stand, solely on the grounds that the Israelites later fell into error. Your Bible twisting is insane.

I'll tell you what seems insane to me. That's when someone insists that they have God's permission to do what God forbid them do, and they support their claim by saying, But God Himself does it. So the insane thing is thinking that you are equal with God.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Why are there statues then? What happened to Peter's foot?

What is the history of that statue? How did whomever made it think they knew Peter's likeness? Just wondering . . .

Much love!