Does God mind if idols of 'saints' are worshipped in church?

[Big Boy Johnson]

Wait, you can go to hell for breaking one of the ten commandments?

The 10 Commandments were ordained as part of the Mosaic Law in Exodus 20:8-11 (aka Law of Moses)

The entire old testament has been taken away so that a New Covenant could be established...

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Now, under the New Covenant, 9 of the original 10 commandments were included as those 9 were always part of God's moral law even before the 10 Commandments were ordained as part of the Mosaic Law in Exodus 20:8-11

But one of the original 10 Commandments has been made obsolete under the New Covenant because the New Covenant is based on better promises. Something better has been made available to God's people than keeping Saturday sabbath!

Care to guess which of the 10 Commandments is NOT mentioned are required under the New Covenant due to the New Covenant being based on better promises???

Not many churches worship statues of saints...

...including the Catholic Church.

 

[Mink57]

That has not been my experience. And somebody should tell them God doesn't like it.

You're another one who doesn't get what 'worship' is.

I can go to a church...see a statue of Mary (for example) and bow my head. I'm not 'worshipping' the statue. When I bow my head, I'm not doing so in order to 'worship' the statue...I'm doing so in order to show humility, while thanking God and Jesus for allowing Mary to be the one that God chose to birth our Lord.

If you kneel at your bed at night to say your prayers, are you 'worshipping' the bed?

 

[Pearl]

So, you believe that IF you commit murder...and feel NO REMORSE, you can't go to hell...?

Wow...just...........wow.

Sorry, but IF you're a Christian, you wouldn't break ANY Commandment

Again I say really? Not one little 'false witness' or a small 'covet' It also says honour your parents but I suspect some Christians have been disrespectful occasionally, and adultery - many Christians have at one time done that, or stealing a pen or paper clip. And even murder can be forgiven by our loving God.

So are you telling us that you have never, ever done any of these things - not murder obviously or you wouldn't be here.

You see if you are covered by the Lamb's blood you are forgiven. And saved from the consequences of your sin so you don't have to go to hell.

I don't expect you to believe me though. At least not immediately.

 

[marks]

So, you believe that IF you commit murder...and feel NO REMORSE, you can't go to hell...?

Wow...just...........wow.

Sorry, but IF you're a Christian, you wouldn't break ANY Commandment

This would be an example of "moving the goalposts", and serves to misrepresent the one you are replying to. Misrepresentation is another way to day bearing a false witness, which is prohibited in the 10 commandments. Aren't you a Christian?

Much love!

 

[Pearl]

You're another one who doesn't get what 'worship' is.

Now you're getting personal. I so do understand what worship is and for me it isn't bowing my head or my knee to a statue. Although I both bow my head and lift my head in my private worship times at home. No statue required.

If you kneel at your bed at night to say your prayers, are you 'worshipping' the bed?

My days of kneeling by my bed are over. If I got down I couldn't get up. But I do sit in my bedroom chair and either bow my head or lift my head as I commit my sleeping hours to HIm.

 

[Pearl]

So, you believe that IF you commit murder...and feel NO REMORSE, you can't go to hell...?

Everyone is destined for 'hell' without the saving grace of God.

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

But Jesus died, paid the price, so we could be saved from 'hell'.

It is such a shame that they don't teach that in the Catholic church, for that is the true gospel of salvation.

We aren't Saved by keeping the commandments. We are only Saved by giving our lives over to Jesus - it's the only way to be reconciled to God - no matter what you hear from your priests.

 

[Mink57]

Again I say really? Not one little 'false witness' or a small 'covet' It also says honour your parents but I suspect some Christians have been disrespectful occasionally, and adultery - many Christians have at one time done that, or stealing a pen or paper clip. And even murder can be forgiven by our loving God.

Yes CAN be forgiven. But not immediately forgiven, especially if we ain't sorry for our sin(s).

So are you telling us that you have never, ever done any of these things - not murder obviously or you wouldn't be here.

Never said that.

You see if you are covered by the Lamb's blood you are forgiven.

I'm forgiven if I ask for forgiveness and repent of my sin(s)

And saved from the consequences of your sin so you don't have to go to hell.

I don't expect you to believe me though. At least not immediately.

Of course not...because what you're suggesting doesn't make sense.

 

[Mink57]

The 10 Commandments were ordained as part of the Mosaic Law in Exodus 20:8-11 (aka Law of Moses)

The entire old testament has been taken away so that a New Covenant could be established...

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Now, under the New Covenant, 9 of the original 10 commandments were included as those 9 were always part of God's moral law even before the 10 Commandments were ordained as part of the Mosaic Law in Exodus 20:8-11

But one of the original 10 Commandments has been made obsolete under the New Covenant because the New Covenant is based on better promises. Something better has been made available to God's people than keeping Saturday sabbath!

Care to guess which of the 10 Commandments is NOT mentioned are required under the New Covenant due to the New Covenant being based on better promises???





View attachment 39324

Prove otherwise...

 

[Mink57]

This would be an example of "moving the goalposts", and serves to misrepresent the one you are replying to. Misrepresentation is another way to day bearing a false witness, which is prohibited in the 10 commandments. Aren't you a Christian?

Much love!

This isn't "moving the goalposts." Barney Fife asked if we could go to hell for breaking one of the 10 Commandments. Murder is one of the 10 Commandments, is it NOT?

 

[Pearl]

Yes CAN be forgiven. But not immediately forgiven, especially if we ain't sorry for our sin(s).

Never said that.

I'm forgiven if I ask for forgiveness and repent of my sin(s)

Of course not...because what you're suggesting doesn't make sense.

46 years ago I confessed my sin, repented and asked Jesus into my life. I was born again, He made me a new creation with a totally clean slate. That decision has saved me from the consequences of my sin for ever - I am saved from going to 'hell' (whatever that is).

Anybody can do the same. For many years as a churchgoer I never heard this good news from the pulpit but when I did hear it I responded immediately and I now am part of God's family.

So I know vicars can get it wrong and priests too. And that's so sad that all those religious people never get to hear the true gospel and don't have the chance to become true Christians.

But pride can get in the way even when they do.

 

[Mink57]

Now you're getting personal. I so do understand what worship is and for me it isn't bowing my head or my knee to a statue. Although I both bow my head and lift my head in my private worship times at home. No statue required.

I also bow my head sometimes if I see the picture of my daughters in my wallet. I bow my head in humility while praying to God that they're kept safe...

By bowing my head in front of those pictures, am I 'worshipping' the picture? The paper the picture is on?

Only GOD knows if I'm "worshipping" the picture or worshipping God.

YOU don't. Unless of course, you want to pretend to know what's in my heart while I'm bowing my head...

My days of kneeling by my bed are over. If I got down I couldn't get up. But I do sit in my bedroom chair and either bow my head or lift my head as I commit my sleeping hours to HIm.

LOL! I know what you mean, Pearl! In the midst of this 'lively' conversation, thanks for that!

 

[Pearl]

This isn't "moving the goalposts." Barney Fife asked if we could go to hell for breaking one of the 10 Commandments. Murder is one of the 10 Commandments, is it NOT?

It is, but with a repentant heart and coming to Jesus it will be forgiven by God even though the person would still have to face the consequences and serve a prison term.

 

[Pearl]

I also bow my head sometimes if I see the picture of my daughters in my wallet. I bow my head in humility while praying to God that they're kept safe..

There are many reasons for bowing one's head and I can understand that thinking of loved ones might cause any of us to do that as we thank God for them. But like I said I will never bow the knee to anybody or bow my head to a statue.

If a person has been taught the same things for many years It will take time to realise that there may be a better way. Relationship on a personal level with Jesus is far better than religion. It sets you free rather than ties you to a set of rules.

 

[marks]

This isn't "moving the goalposts." Barney Fife asked if we could go to hell for breaking one of the 10 Commandments. Murder is one of the 10 Commandments, is it NOT?

You added something, don't you realize that?

Much love!

 

[Mink57]

46 years ago I confessed my sin, repented and asked Jesus into my life.

ALL of your sins? You think that you haven't sinned in 46 years??

I was born again, He made me a new creation with a totally clean slate. That decision has saved me from the consequences of my sin for ever - I am saved from going to 'hell' (whatever that is).

So you say. I wouldn't be so arrogant as to believe that I'm "saved" from EVERY sin I may commit between now and the time I'm called home.

Anybody can do the same. For many years as a churchgoer I never heard this good news from the pulpit but when I did hear it I responded immediately and I now am part of God's family.

Being part of God's family doesn't necessarily mean the we no longer sin. To me, it means that we have an 'avenue' for the forgiveness of sins...NOT that we don't commit sins any more.

So I know vicars can get it wrong and priests too.

I agree. Vicars ain't perfect. Neither are priests. Or Deacons...or magistrates...Cardinals, Ministers, etc.

And that's so sad that all those religious people never get to hear the true gospel and don't have the chance to become true Christians.

But pride can get in the way even when they do.

I agree with you there, too. Pride CAN and often DOES get in the way. And one (of several) reason() why Catholics confess to a priest is because of pride. That is, if we're remorseful because of our sins, we should approach the throne of God in humility.

How many of us actually DO that?

 

[Mink57]

It is, but with a repentant heart and coming to Jesus it will be forgiven by God even though the person would still have to face the consequences and serve a prison term.

Maybe....but didn't the king forgive an entire debt of one who owed a large debt because he asked for forgiveness in the bible?

What 'consequences' did the debtor face? He only faced consequences when he didn't forgive the other person who own him a much smaller amount.

 

[Mink57]

There are many reasons for bowing one's head and I can understand that thinking of loved ones might cause any of us to do that as we thank God for them. But like I said I will never bow the knee to anybody or bow my head to a statue.

Bowing toward a statue doesn't mean that anyone is 'worshipping' the statue. Again, I can look out my window, at the mountains, and bow my head...while thanking God for the majestic sight of the mountains...

So, because I bow my head toward the mountains, am I 'worshipping' the mountains?

If you can understand that bowing a head toward a picture doesn't mean that you're 'worshipping' that picture, why can't you understand the same thing about statues? Or any form of Christian art?

If a person has been taught the same things for many years It will take time to realise that there may be a better way. Relationship on a personal level with Jesus is far better than religion. It sets you free rather than ties you to a set of rules.

Even Jesus has RULES. After all, he DID say, "If you follow my Commandments..."

Right?

GOD had rules. If He didn't, he wouldn't have kicked satan out from Heaven in the first place.

 

[Pearl]

ALL of your sins? You think that you haven't sinned in 46 years??

I was once a sinner, but now, because I accepted the blood sacrifice of Jesus, the bible calls me - and all true Christians - a saint. It isn't arrogant to accept Gods grace. I lived a life of sin, as does even the kindest, nicest person without that spiritual re-birth. Now I live with the knowledge of what sin is whereas before I didn't recognise it.

Being part of God's family doesn't necessarily mean the we no longer sin. To me, it means that we have an 'avenue' for the forgiveness of sins...NOT that we don't commit sins any more.

The forgiveness has already been given to those of us who are truly born again. But we live in a grimy world and often get 'dirty feet' . Jesus told Peter He didn't need a bath but only his feet washing. Confessing to a priest won't get you forgiven, you need to confess to God directly. Christians don't need priests because we have direct access to God throne. In fact the bible tells us we are part of a Holy Priesthood.

 

[Mink57]

You added something, don't you realize that?

Much love!

Added WHAT?

 

[MatthewG]

Idols and other gods are not to be served.