Does God need man?

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Wick Stick

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Was man created to be his body? That doesn’t really make sense….

“God is a spirit“ and spirits have “bodies”, as the Bible clearly states…..their bodies are just not material because they do not inhabit a material realm. When angels brought messages to God’s human servants, they materialized human form and appeared as humans, spoke as humans, and even ate and drank as humans. When their mission was finished, they simply dissolved their human body and returned to the spirit realm….

1 Cor 15:40-49…
”And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort. 41 The glory of the sun is one sort, and the glory of the moon is another, and the glory of the stars is another; in fact, one star differs from another star in glory.

42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power. 44 It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, what is spiritual is not first. What is physical is first, and afterward what is spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 Like the one made of dust, so too are those made of dust; and like the heavenly one, so too are those who are heavenly. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we will bear also the image of the heavenly one.”


So the chosen ones, (saints, elect) have a heavenly inheritance that will transform them from beings of flesh, to spirit beings, so that they can dwell in the presence of the Creator. These are the “body of Christ”…his co-rulers in heaven. (Rev 20:6) This is how they are “born again” as spirit beings.

In the beginning, God made clear the assignment for which he created humans, who were greater in intelligence than any other “souls” he created, and endowed with God’s moral qualities and attributes (missing in other sentient creatures) and superbly formed physically for the task he assigned for them alone.

‘Why we were created to live here in the first place’ is the vitally important question because our purpose in being created was to fulfill God’s will…..we have no idea how long God was alone in his realm before he created his spirit ”sons”……he being complete and perfect in every way, he did not “need” other beings in order to be content. But according to scripture, “God is love”….he is the epitome of all that love is, so what was missing? Other living creatures on whom God could share and shower his love. Angels were his first “sons”. He filled his realm with millions of them, all individually created.…and free willed.

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” is the opening declaration of Genesis chapter 1.
This is the “beginning” of the material “heavens” not the spirit realm in which spirit beings reside. They were in existence before the material universe was created. (Job 38:3-7)

The earth was chosen in a vast universe, and carefully prepared to support all the life forms that God created to live here.…we are part of that creation, specifically designed to take care of all that God had made….like God himself would if he was a human being on earth.

If we lose sight of our purpose here and begin imagining that we were destined for greater things, we have lost sight of the big picture altogether. Our planet, and in fact, our solar system is so insignificant that, looking at the perspective we have now of our place in it, don’t we have to wonder why God chose this tiny speck to begin creating other life forms?

Can we see how this small excursion into creating sentient life of infinite variety here, might have been just the beginning of something much grander? When we see the scale of things in creation…the magnitude of the universe itself compared with the perfection and variety of living things even at a microscopic level here on earth, don’t we begin to see how incredibly amazing our Creator is, and what he might be accomplishing here to begin a much grander project in the future?

If all the “bugs” associated with the gift of free will are ironed out here first, God then has forever to create whatever he wishes according to his purpose. Precedents are set so that what happened here can never happen again. His sovereignty was challenged by one of his own sons first, so this isn’t just about us…it’s about all of his children…those already in existence, and those who are to come.
Life is a gift that goes on giving, just as love is…..

1 John 4:16-19….
“And we have come to know and believe the love that God has for us.

God is love, and the one who remains in love remains in union with God and God remains in union with him. 17 In this way love has been made perfect in us, so that we may have freeness of speech in the day of judgment, because just as that one is, so are we ourselves in this world. 18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts fear out, because fear restrains us. Indeed, the one who is fearful has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love, because he first loved us.”


He loves us enough to want to rid the world of evil forever….he couldn’t tell us about what evil would do to our lives if we abused our free will, (though he tried) so when bad choices were made “in the beginning”, he allowed all of his children to learn the hard lessons about the value of obedience. We have seen first hand where disobedience leads and those of the right heart will never want to go there again. All humans and angels who want to do their own will instead of the Creator’s, will be permanently eliminated, so that God‘s will can be “done on earth, as it is in heaven”…..this is what Jesus taught us to pray for….complete unity for God’s universal family.

The Big Picture.
I think this may be the most popular heresy of the modern age - that "heaven" is an alternate-reality, extra-dimensional spirit realm.

The Bible entertains no such notion. The heavens it talks about are the literal heavens. You can see them right now by walking outside and looking UP.

Heavenly bodies may be different from earthly bodies, but they're both still bodies. Neither is incorporeal. If this were false, then astronauts could not land on the moon, and we wouldn't be afraid of asteroids.

Likewise, a spiritual body may be different from a psychical body, but they are both still bodies. Neither is incorporeal. The difference lies in the power source. Our natural bodies move and act under the power of our minds. Spiritual bodies move and act under the power of the spirit.

I think I'll stop here, because I know... I'm wasting my time on this conversation. For you to hear this and understand, you would have to change your whole paradigm, and that isn't going to happen in a day. I sincerely doubt that you could relinquish your cherished belief that at death you will be Star-Trek-transported to an alternate reality of delights.

But, at the end of the Bible, people are resurrected bodily, on the earth, and it is God that comes DOWN, and not us that goes UP.
 

Matthias

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God does not need a plan B. If he set out to do something he will succeed and failure is impossible.

The question I would think centers around the plan for man as a whole. God wouldn't have created us in the first place if we would fall without an opportunity for redemption.

In a cosmic battleground of spirits in the heavens, what is our world but an microcosm of that battle. A battle where the enemy does not even comprehend the victory conditions.

God doesn’t need a plan B because the plan he needed - plan A - is sufficient.
 

Mr E

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Sarcasm. Hah.

Clearly I made no effort at all. Why should I? The end result would be that you would dig in against anything I said. That does neither of us any favors.

Yet, it didn't slow you down any-- in proclaiming that it doesn't seem (to you) that I know what spirit is.

I'm offering you a platform to enlighten the world.

Don't be shy. That's an order.

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Matthias

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Autotheism.


Now your doctrine makes sense.

I was aware from your earlier comments that you weren’t understanding what I was saying.

While in Christianity,that statement is known as blatant falsity. Or,blasphemy.

You’ve invented / imagined a deity who can save man without having man to save.

I don’t find your logic persuasive.
 
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BlessedPeace

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I was aware from your earlier comments that you weren’t understanding what I was saying.



You’ve invented / imagined a deity who can save man without having man to save.

I don’t find your logic persuasive.
I can see why that is.

You imagined a God that creates man and condemns man,and then proves he's God by saving whom he chose to both condemn or save.

"God could not do what he is doing without man."

God could have not to put a forbidden tree in Eden. Nor did allow the serpent into Eden.
 

Mr E

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I can see why that is.

You imagined a God that creates man and condemns man,and then proves he's God by saving whom he chose to both condemn or save.

"God could not do what he is doing without man."

God could have not to put a forbidden tree in Eden. Nor did allow the serpent into Eden.

Without ever admitting it, he's subtly suggesting that God created man for the purpose of condemning him, so he could then save him.

Like God is a narcissist with a Savior (messiah) complex.

It's a disgusting representation. Among God's needs-- He must (according to this false belief) need to be a hero.
 
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Matthias

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Without ever admitting it, he's subtly suggesting that God created man for the purpose of condemning him, so he could then save him.

Like God is a narcissist with a Savior (messiah) complex.

It's a disgusting representation. Among God's needs-- He must (according to this false belief) need to be a hero.

I don’t believe any of that, and you know it.

Nor have I suggested it. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, apparently you didn’t know that.
 

Mr E

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I don’t believe any of that, and you know it.

Nor have I suggested it. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, apparently you didn’t know that.

It is what you are proposing. For someone who prides themselves on following logic the way you do, you should check your math on this thread. You are repeatedly proposing the silliest notions-- like God needs man to worship Him. That contradicts scripture directly.

You've still offered NO scripture in support of your basic premise.

"God needs man." Chapter and verse please, or you. are. dismissed.
 
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Matthias

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It is what you are proposing.

It isn’t what I’m proposing.

For someone who prides themselves on following logic the way you do, you should check your math on this thread. You are repeatedly proposing the silliest notions-- like God needs man to worship Him. That contradicts scripture directly.

You've still offered NO scripture in support of your basic premise.

"God needs man." Chapter and verse please, or you. are. dismissed.

Your misrepresentations aside, others have easily grasped it.
 

Mr E

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It isn’t what I’m proposing.



Your misrepresentations aside, others have grasped it.

I'm out of this one. I'm disappointed. You are generally so good at citations. Impossible of course, when you have nothing to cite.

Stick to you library and keep dodging scripture. Be happy with commentaries and I'll happily leave you with them.

Hasta la vista
 
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