Does Satan run the world? Or does God?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,197
4,957
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Any takers on this?

Has anyone else out there heard of there being “Ha’Satan” as seen as Israel? The god of the world of the Jews was externally living out the Law, and they literally worshipped it, along side their man made traditions, when Jesus shows up on the scene it was this way, and continued after Jesus and his death, and resurrection seen in the book of Acts. And waxed worse as the years continued forward.
 

BlessedPeace

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2023
3,868
2,977
113
Bend
akiane.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The NT tells us the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Are we to presume that is not the adversary?

In the OT king David was instructed in 2 different books to take a census.

In one book it was God instructing him. In the other it was Satan.

David obeyed in both cases.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amigo de christo

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,184
9,752
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The serpent would of had no power over Adam if they had not hearkened to him.
The Lord said the same to Cain. That Cain would have dominion over sin. But he followed his own heart and slew Abel.
God is Spirit yea? Satan is Spirit yea?
Each one is battling for your soul.
Jesus overcame Satan twice. Once in the wilderness where he was tempted. And again on the cross when he overcame the power of sin which is death.
Jesus tells us to take up our cross and follow him.
If Satan is gone, then why die daily, why pray to be kept from the evil?
Satan tries to trip you up. He is the tempter. God tempts no man, but this Satan, God has given him the authority to try us, like he did Job.
And we have the same promise God gave to Cain:
If thou doest well shalt thou not be accepted? And if not, sin lieth at the door. And you will have dominion over him.
Jesus told Peter: Peter Satan hath desired to have you and sift you as wheat, but I have prayed for you. And when thou art converted, strengthen the brethren.

(Going by memory, I can post the verses but I think you know them)

Jesus having overcome sin, and tasting death for all men, His faith is our faith and His power is our power, and with his armour we can also defeat the devil in our own lives.
By him we cast down all things that are not pure, that are not righteous, that are not good.
This includes thoughts and feelings that rise up in us against others.
Satan says revenge, Jesus says forgive. Satan says hate, Jesus says love.
It is the battle between Night and Day.
And in the end the battle has been won, we only need to have faith and believe that Jesus is working in us to conquer Satan's sifting of our own souls.

Satan has a purpose. His purpose is to make us fall so we get back up and not give up.
He is the fiery trial we all must overcome. In ourselves and the things he whispers in our hearts and minds. Trying to make us turn from God by placing all kinds of temptations in our paths.
But with Christ we are more than conquerers through him who loves us.

Satan controls the world of men that know not God. They follow him. They do his works. They hate, they kill, they lie, they steal, the commit adultery. They follow the lust in their heart which is the tare that Satan planted there.
Jesus came and sowed the good seed.
And not only in the world but in ourselves grows wheat and tares. Internal (spiritually) and external (worldly)

We see the carnal manifestation of Satan working in the world through the hearts of men.
We need to see Spiritual manifestation of Jesus working in our hearts. The good fruit we are meant to bare.
Jesus removes the tares if we follow him. And the thorns that dig us when we're down.
This is what repentance looks like.
Turning from the devil and his ways and walking with Jesus and doing things his way.

If Eve had just said.. Get thee behing me Serpent.. the world would be a much different place.
And you have the power to tell the devil to go to hell.
Hugs
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,197
4,957
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The serpent would of had no power over Adam if they had not hearkened to him.
The Lord said the same to Cain. That Cain would have dominion over sin. But he followed his own heart and slew Abel.
God is Spirit yea? Satan is Spirit yea?
Each one is battling for your soul.
Jesus overcame Satan twice. Once in the wilderness where he was tempted. And again on the cross when he overcame the power of sin which is death.
Jesus tells us to take up our cross and follow him.
If Satan is gone, then why die daily, why pray to be kept from the evil?
Satan tries to trip you up. He is the tempter. God tempts no man, but this Satan, God has given him the authority to try us, like he did Job.
And we have the same promise God gave to Cain:
If thou doest well shalt thou not be accepted? And if not, sin lieth at the door. And you will have dominion over him.
Jesus told Peter: Peter Satan hath desired to have you and sift you as wheat, but I have prayed for you. And when thou art converted, strengthen the brethren.

(Going by memory, I can post the verses but I think you know them)

Jesus having overcome sin, and tasting death for all men, His faith is our faith and His power is our power, and with his armour we can also defeat the devil in our own lives.
By him we cast down all things that are not pure, that are not righteous, that are not good.
This includes thoughts and feelings that rise up in us against others.
Satan says revenge, Jesus says forgive. Satan says hate, Jesus says love.
It is the battle between Night and Day.
And in the end the battle has been won, we only need to have faith and believe that Jesus is working in us to conquer Satan's sifting of our own souls.

Satan has a purpose. His purpose is to make us fall so we get back up and not give up.
He is the fiery trial we all must overcome. In ourselves and the things he whispers in our hearts and minds. Trying to make us turn from God by placing all kinds of temptations in our paths.
But with Christ we are more than conquerers through him who loves us.

Satan controls the world of men that know not God. They follow him. They do his works. They hate, they kill, they lie, they steal, the commit adultery. They follow the lust in their heart which is the tare that Satan planted there.
Jesus came and sowed the good seed.
And not only in the world but in ourselves grows wheat and tares. Internal (spiritually) and external (worldly)

We see the carnal manifestation of Satan working in the world through the hearts of men.
We need to see Spiritual manifestation of Jesus working in our hearts. The good fruit we are meant to bare.
Jesus removes the tares if we follow him. And the thorns that dig us when we're down.
This is what repentance looks like.
Turning from the devil and his ways and walking with Jesus and doing things his way.

If Eve had just said.. Get thee behing me Serpent.. the world would be a much different place.
And you have the power to tell the devil to go to hell.
Hugs

God owns the earth and everything in it. Satan was told to be done away with…. So many people give credit to Satan rather than putting the credit on themselves for they themselves are evil… and it’s from the heart that evil comes from which is from the nature inherited by Adam and Eve.

I’m just seeking if anyone has ever heard of Israel having been the “adversary” against Yahavah - which was his own people disregarding him… (at this point.)

While people may believe Satan is still around… it’s the darkness within ourselves all must face in the mirror.

There is nothing founded in James writing that indicates Satan is the one who tempts us…

”Great blessings belong to those who are tempted and remain faithful! After they have proved their faith, God will give them the reward of eternal life. God promised this to all people who love him. Whenever you feel tempted to do something bad, you should not say, “God is tempting me.” Evil cannot tempt God, and God himself does not tempt anyone. You are tempted by the evil things you want. Your own desire leads you away and traps you. Your desire grows inside you until it results in sin. Then the sin grows bigger and bigger and finally ends in death. My dear brothers and sisters, don’t be fooled about this. Everything good comes from God. Every perfect gift is from him. These good gifts come down from the Father who made all the lights in the sky. But God never changes like the shadows from those lights. He is always the same. God decided to give us life through the true message he sent to us. He wanted us to be the most important of all that he created.“
‭‭James‬ ‭1‬:‭12‬-‭18‬ ‭ERV‬‬
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,197
4,957
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The NT tells us the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Are we to presume that is not the adversary?

In the OT king David was instructed in 2 different books to take a census.

In one book it was God instructing him. In the other it was Satan.

David obeyed in both cases.

I’m just trying to find out if anyone has ever heard of Israel being the adversary at this point. They made the law their god and that was their god of the world they lived under, which was a representation of “Satan” before being done away with.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,197
4,957
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Psalm 52:12
“If I were hungry, I would not tell you, for the world and its fullness are mine.


This is Yahavah being recorded here. So does the Devil really have control of the world? God says he is the one owns the world. Traditions normally say yes… the devil owns it. Which one is right?

Psalm 24:1-2
A Psalm of David. The earth is Yahavahs and the fullness thereof, the world and those who dwell therein, for he has founded it upon the seas and established it upon the rivers.
 

Phil .

Active Member
Nov 1, 2022
444
64
28
Midwest.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Any takers on this?

Does Satan run the world? Or does God?​


Satan or the devil is essentially misidentification, and is not an actual entity. (Hence the term fallen angel).
More accurately, the “separate self” of thoughts.

This is inevitable, because God being the world equals God overlooking ‘itself’ (God).

An infinite being, being a world… is not an experience for a self-aware being.
Infinite being would not experience “a world”, because being self-aware “that” is not “a world” to infinite being… that is… (still)… infinite being.

For infinite being, God, to experience a world, requires God veiling itself from its own inherent infinitude & unconditionality… from being aware that it is being… a world.

As God is being the so called world… God is not ‘running the world’.
As satan does not actually exist, but rather, is an illusion of ignorance, satan doesn’t ’run the world’ either.
 

BlessedPeace

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2023
3,868
2,977
113
Bend
akiane.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I’m just trying to find out if anyone has ever heard of Israel being the adversary at this point. They made the law their god and that was their god of the world they lived under, which was a representation of “Satan” before being done away with.

I don't think any Jew would know what you're talking about.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,197
4,957
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There has to be some connection. Think about it… if anything was as evil like Satan it was the Jewish brethren of the Messiah who put him to death! That is an adversary or Ha’Satan. Aside from this notion, there are no more “Jews” left, aside from traditions held from the past because all of the tribes of Israel were killed off, with 144,000, being taken and raptured (changed in the twinkle of the eye) when they seen him return… with also the wiping away of their genealogy.

A symbolism, yet really happened, for a destroyed (Israel) “Ha’Satan’, adversary.
 

ChristisGod

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2020
6,911
3,864
113
64
California
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There seemed to be darkness that God was surrounded by before he said let there be light and separation was what he did between the light and darkness. Could Satan have been influence by this darkness that existed seemingly around God been what tempted even himself to fall? Just curious have you ever thought of it? Satan in turn would be in a representation of what the darkness entails. Such as exaltation, pride, haughty, etc… those are some things that reside in our heart annd aren’t from Satan directly or indirectly. The world is what tempts us which comes by our own lust. The darkness seemed to exist before anything else was made. I don’t know when.
that is in the creation account, not before creation since God is light and thee is no darkness in Him. Prior to creation it was all light. :)
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,197
4,957
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
that is in the creation account, not before creation since God is light and thee is no darkness in Him. Prior to creation it was all light. :)
I disagree. But that is just my viewpoint.

It seems to be so.

”In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Darkness was there with God.

”And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1‬:‭3‬-‭4‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

O'Darby

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2024
672
746
93
74
Arizona
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The dynamics of internet forums are always interesting to me. We discuss and debate subjects on which there is vast scholarship as though that scholarship simply didn't exist. Probably we do this because most of us would rather shoot the bull than actually study. As I frequently joke, an internet forum is like stepping into the middle of a crowded Walmart and shouting "So what does everybody think - did Jesus have any contact with the Essene community in his missing years?"

"Satan" simply means adversary or accuser. It is used in a variety of contexts in the OT. It certainly could apply to a human or group of humans. Ha-satan puts the article "the" in front: "the accuser." In most OT thinking, "the accuser" was a member of God's divine council who served as a useful agitator or prosecutor. He was not the arch-fiend Prince of Darkness of Christian theology. To read the Christian perspective back into the OT can create a great deal of confusion in reading a book such as, for example, Job. It was not until the first century BC that Jewish thinking evolved in the direction of a cosmic war between Good and Evil and Ha-satan as the sinister leader of the forces of Evil.

Which is why I don't insist on any mental image of who or what Satan must be. I simply acknowledge the mysterious power of a supernatural evil at work in individual lives and the world as a whole. Why God allows this, when humans are capable of plenty of evil on their own, is a great mystery.

These are short and worth reading:
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2023
1,536
848
113
76
SW PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thank you for sharing your take, Ronald. Scary to think about.

It seems you have a view that Jesus has yet to have the victory over the Devil. Jesus talks about casting him, out of this world, and the Revelation speaks about the doing away with the Devil too. God promised the defeating of the devil with a crushed head in Genesis. And Jesus promised that the things which would happen within that generation would happen. That generation would include the 7 churches in Asia Minor. Are you saying that those people never seen the return of Christ? And what do you base it on?

Just curious for more information.
:watching and waiting:
 
  • Haha
Reactions: BlessedPeace

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,197
4,957
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It isn’t no red devil with horns and a pitchfork.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,647
6,442
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
Psalm 50:12 If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof.

Ownership is not always control.

So, while "Unto Jesus is given all power in heaven, and on earth"... the devil is still the "god of this world".

How do you know?

1.) Rape
2.) Murder
3.) Religion
4.) Hate
5.) Lying
6.) Homosexuality
7.) Child molesting
8.) Drug abuse
9.) 4500 different Denominations
10.) Communism- Marxism
11.) Catholicism & Calvinism
12.) Preterism
13.) JW's
14.) Biden
15.) Putin
16.) Hamas
17.) Nazi's
18.) Sex Trade
19.) anti-Semitism
20.) Christ Rejection

Just to name a few of Satan's Masterpieces.... still up and running.

But Jesus is coming back in : """flaming fire, to take Vengeance on all those who do not obey the Gospel""".

How do you "obey" it?

A.) Believe it.
 
Last edited:

BlessedPeace

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2023
3,868
2,977
113
Bend
akiane.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ownership is not always control.
Sovereign dominion is.

Nothing happens unless God permits it.

9. And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord. (Job 1:12; see also Job 2:4-6)
10. The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord. (Proverbs 16:33)

So, while "Unto Jesus is given all power in heaven, and on earth"... the devil is still the "god of this world".

How do you know?

1.) Rape
2.) Murder
3.) Religion
4.) Hate
5.) Lying
6.) Homosexuality
7.) Child molesting
8.) Drug abuse
9.) 4500 different Denominations
10.) Communism- Marxism
11.) Catholicism & Calvinism
12.) Preterism
13.) JW's
14.) Biden
15.) Putin
16.) Hamas
17.) Nazi's
18.) Sex Trade
19.) anti-Semitism
20.) Christ Rejection

Just to name a few of Satan's Masterpieces.... still up and running.

But Jesus is coming back in : """flaming fire, to take Vengeance on all those who do not obey the Gospel""".

How do you "obey" it?

A.) Believe it.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,197
4,957
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ownership is not always control.

So, while "Unto Jesus is given all power in heaven, and on earth"... the devil is still the "god of this world".

How do you know?

1.) Rape
2.) Murder
3.) Religion
4.) Hate
5.) Lying
6.) Homosexuality
7.) Child molesting
8.) Drug abuse
9.) 4500 different Denominations
10.) Communism- Marxism
11.) Catholicism & Calvinism
12.) Preterism
13.) JW's
14.) Biden
15.) Putin
16.) Hamas
17.) Nazi's
18.) Sex Trade
19.) anti-Semitism
20.) Christ Rejection

Just to name a few of Satan's Masterpieces.... still up and running.

But Jesus is coming back in : """flaming fire, to take Vengeance on all those who do not obey the Gospel""".

How do you "obey" it?

A.) Believe it.
I’m okay with believe the dei is done away with.