1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Does the bible prohibit a woman from being a "pastor"?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Kidron, Jul 4, 2012.

  1. mandygirl

    mandygirl New Member

    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    1
    ok i will do that then


    But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God
    ~I Corinthians 11:3

    Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression
    ~ I Timothy 2:11-14

    Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
    ~ Ephesians 5:22-24

    Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
    ~ I Corinthians 14:34-35


    For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. ~ I Corinthians 11:8-9

    A silent and loving woman is a gift of the Lord: and there is nothing so much worth as a mind well instructed. ~ Ecclesiastes 26:14



    i knew these verses by memory before I was 13 yrs old. my pastor really drums in this stuff so I'm thankful.
     
  2. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    1,196
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Greeting in the name of the Lord Jesus,
    it is apparent to me that some do not understand the NEW CREATION. we're not under the law, or the old ways. if any man be in Christ he's a new creature, not that same old man. but a new Creation. under a new Covenant, under a new LAW, the LAW of "LOVE" by Faith, yes, faith is law. there is no male nor female, NOT in Christ JESUS. that's the reason why he died to free us completely. I have notice in this Christian walk, that some christians are, "set", free while other are, "MADE", free. big difference, such as we see here and now. some Christian are still walking after the flesh, see Romans chapter 8. for what I mean about set, and made free, is being complete in Christ Jesus. one can be set free from one thing, but still be in bondage to another thing. one is not completely free until they are made free. for behold I make all things NEW. if they are new then they are not the same old things, or way of living. for OLD things have PASSED AWAY. those OLD way of treating women is done away, treating them as second class citizen, now get this, as IN CHURCH. if anything this should not be. not in the Church of Jesus Christ, may I say the True Church, she, yes she, (the Church, is a She), should let her Light shine so that other may see God in her. not division, Just as with race, and separate denomination in some areas. Saturday and Sunday is the two most segregated days of the week. baptist on one corner, Catholic , Presbyterian, ect... on another corner, just an observation, is this everywhere?, no. but at work, on Monday - Friday, we come together, what's wrong with that picture. I thought the church was the headlight, and not the tailight, women can be all that can be in the world, but not in YOUR CHURCH, Oh well, MEN Doctrine, alway tryto hinder God Holiness, just as
    Balaam. with that said, only if one is in Christ Jesus can they overcome the world. John 1:1. "THE NEW CREATION, and if any man be in Christ, he's a new creation, old things have passed away, behold all thing have become NEW. this is the beginning that the apostle John spoke of in 1 John 1:1 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life". question, what beginning was it, when John heard, seen, and touch the word of life. was it in Genesis 1:1. NO. if so, show me the scripture where the apostle John was at Genesis 1:1 creation, and was alive to touch and to see, and to hear the Spirit. see, touching, seeing, and hearing are physical aspect, and God is a Spirit, even the angels didn't see him as such in this dispensation, supportive scripture, 1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory". he was seen of angels in this dispensation, How? in the Flesh. now again I submit to you, the beginning that the apostle John is writing about is the new beginning of John 1:1, the Natural Flesh of God, which is the the second dispensation of the Spirit, Jesus/Yeshua in NATURAL FLESH ON EARTH, God with us, "Emmanuel". understand, God was in natural flesh on EARTH, WITH US. this is the, "THAT", in I AM, "THAT", I AM. And in Revelation 1:8, "WHICH WAS", Rev 1:8 "which is, "WHICH WAS", and which is to come. God "WAS". Jesus/Yeshua in NATURAL FLESH ON EARTH, this is the new beginning. Jesus is the NEW MAN, in this dispensation. Jesus, in the office of the HOLY SPIRIT, (see Revelation 1:10-18). Jesus ordain men in the Flesh while he was in flesh on Earth. but now he,Glorified Spirit, and ordain men by his Spirit. Just as the apostle Paul was ordain by JESUS/The HOLY Spirit in his dispensation of Holy Spirit in Glorified Flesh. supporting scripture, Acts 13:2 "As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them". here Jesus ordained Barnabas and Saul, (who is Paul). now Jesus did that. as well as he ordained Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, who name is in the book of life, minister of the Gospel, as well as Tryphena and Tryphosa, who labour in the Lord, Persis, which laboured much in the Lord, Junia, and Phebe our sister, who is a prostatis in the church of the Lord Jesus.


    these appointments, ordination came about the Spirit/Jesus/GOD. for there was a church in the wilderness, and the church at Zion, one circumcised in the flesh, the other circumcised in the Spirit. to those who don't understand listen, scripture 2 Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new". now, to understand the life in the Spirit, I suggest a reading of Roman chapter 8, the whole book is good reading.



    be bless,

    Love and Peace

    101G.
     
  3. neophyte

    neophyte Member

    Messages:
    669
    Likes Received:
    11
    101G, please show me from the Holy Bible where Jesus instituted more than His One Church with those other churches being completely different from His Church of the Bible; for reference see - where His Church is One [ Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13, Matt 16: 18 '' my church" along with the "Keys" and the authority to bind and loose ] ]
    The Church is Holy [ Eph. 5:25- 27 , Rev. 19:7-8 ]
    The Church is Catholic [ Matt. 28:19-20, Rev. 5: 9-10 ]
    The Church is Apostolic [ Eph. 2: 19-20 ]
    Only His Catholic Church and now His EOC follow Jesus and His Teachings to His chosen apostles/ successors [ Luke 10: 16 ]
    Yes 101G you are correct in writing that the Church is a She. So of course Jesus is the BrideGroom of the Church [ His One True Apostolic Church ] and every "ordained man " is married to that very same Church, because as the following verse explains, all are representatives/ambassadors of Christ , as were His Apostles including Judas see [ 2 Cor. 5:20 ]
    Jesus gave His representatives/ ambassadors to continue His sanctifying work on earth, while with the Father in heaven. All teaching authority was given to His apostles and their qualified successors -[ Matt. 28:18-20 ]
     
  4. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    1,196
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    2 neophyte,
    101G, please show me from the Holy Bible where Jesus instituted more than His One Church with those other churches being completely different from His Church of the Bible

    you just answered own self, the Church, supportive scripture Acts 11:19 "Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only. 20 And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the Lord Jesus. 21 And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord. 22 Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch. 23 Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord. 24 For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord. 25 Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul: 26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch".


    see your mistake, stop thinking in the flesh. this is spiritual.


    Just read the letters to the churches in Revelation chapter 2 and 3. ONE BODY, MANY MEMBERS.


    Yes 101G you are correct in writing that the Church is a She

    and she is full of SONS. get now, She is full of SONS, (smile).

    Love and Peace
    101G
     
  5. epouraniois

    epouraniois Guest

     
  6. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    1,196
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Amen, and greeting,
    may I add,
    1 Corinthians 11:12 "For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

    the bottom Line all thing is of God , that's men and Women


    Without a woman, you want have a man?, and without a woman one won't have a nation. women by nature, I'm saying by NATURE, are builders, God made it that way. Men are to put forth, and women bring forth. one can see the relationship of the ONE true God in this. God sent forth that flesh, (the son), and he brought salvation, by his own arm, (meaning by that arm of flesh). scripture, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me".

    Love and Peace
    101G
     
  7. epouraniois

    epouraniois Guest

    Reading what some are putting forth, Paul, Holy Spirit inspired, was a woman hater, he's got no time for them, or at least had no use of them in the church and could not permit or promote them in his ministry. However, merely read Romans chapter 16, where the fellow workers were women. He sometimes even uses higher words for women than for men. I Timothy 2:11 - We do well to consider the times and conditions, where - take Corinth, with all their strife and divisions and the terrible state of their church, the customs of the eastern woman to wear the gold and pearls or costly array, Paul has said, don't be like that, put on Godliness. Likewise, in the church, the custom was segrigation, and the women were not permitted to get into chatting about during the assembly. It's disruptive. So, if the women are going to enter into the assembly, they need behave in the sense of quiteness. I Timothy 2:12 - Again, the word here is aner, or, husband in English. The woman isn't to usurp the authority of her husband. IT would be confusing to the assembly. I mean, what would that look like, her husband reading and her over talking him saying something else, or bringing in some other point of view before her husband even has the opportunity to bring the subject of her insistance forward? It wouldn't be edifying at all.

    Once we can see the context, the subject and object, all preconceptions have the opportunity to be corrected by Scripture. Scripture is good for that, see 2 Tim. 3:16.

    Edit in:
    Now, these instructions in 1 Tim2, are about married women. They aren't about all women or even women in general. We are reading about married women. Let us try to stick as close to Scripture as possible, lest we spoil the meaning somehow.
     
  8. dragonfly

    dragonfly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,888
    Likes Received:
    141
    Hi HammerStone,

    I didn't pick up on your reply, sorry.

    According to Mickelson, the emphasis is on acting from oneself.

    G831 authenteo (au-then-teh'-o) v.
    1. to act of oneself
    2.(figuratively) dominate
    [from a compound of G846 and an obsolete hentes (a worker)]
    KJV: usurp authority over
    Root(s): G846

    Regarding 'silence', Mickelson again.

    G2271 ἡσυχίa hesuchia (hay-soo-khee'-ah) n.
    1. (as noun) stillness, i.e. desistance from bustle or language
    [feminine of G2272]
    KJV: quietness, silence
    Root(s): G2272



    What immediately strikes me, is the contrast between speaking from oneself, and teaching objective truth.

    Women who are called to teach, or, who find themselves teaching, do need to be very sensitive to the males who are present - if there are males present. Some brethren could not teach for toffee, and should not be expected to, but others could make a reasonable attempt even if not called. In the main, I believe a woman should defer to a man, as long as he also is filled with the Holy Spirit. If he is not, and she is, then politically incorrect as this might be, the spiritual authority is with her. Generally, I think it's okay for a woman to teach younger brethren, if she has been properly taught herself. Paul Washer says women should be taught exactly the same as men. If they have been, then the question of 'what' to teach is standardised. I have the feeling that when Paul was present, it would have been outrageous for a woman to 'teach', and that that is one of the ways to read this verse: 'I suffer not a woman to teach'.

    Still, I would not make the case that every woman should think she could be a pastor, just as every man is not called to pastoring, but for those who are called, or, equipped by the Lord, there ought to be an outworking of God's will in his/her life. It is far more important to be in the centre of God's will, than to be somewhere else.
     
  9. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    1,196
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Greeting,

    2 epouraniois,

    Reading what some are putting forth, Paul, Holy Spirit inspired, was a woman hater, he's got no time for them, or at least had no use of them in the church and could not permit or promote them in his ministry

    that's just only men flesh talking, but you're on the right path, test what men say, not all of God. remember our fight is not with flesh and blood. but with wickedness in high places. most men and women just don't know, or understand the bible, they simply teach what they was taught, never checking if what they was taught was correct. I can't blame or condone any man, we all fall short. but we're striving for the truth. we study to show ourselves approve unto God, so we strive daily. as the apostle Paul say contend for the FAITH. just because some man saying something, that might just not be Gospel, check it out, for yourself. just because someone say the bible say, don't make it right or wrong, we all are human, and subject to mistakes. but be as the Bereans, Acts 17:10 "And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so". so be a Berean.



    now, while on this subject of Women Pastor, there's a scripture that needs some attention;

    1 Corinthians 11:3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God".

    this scripture have been taken out of context for way to long. as the apostle Paul said we need to speak the same thing. so come lets reason together say the Lord.

    get a good BIBLE Dictionary, sometimes, old English Words used by the KJV needs breaking down, so that we, the lay person can understand the context of what the apostle is talking about, I use the Morrish Bible dictionary, A New and Concise Bible Dictionary, in this case, to get the understanding of the word HEAD, but all Bible Dictionary are necessary in one's studies.

    first off this scripture is NOT about authority as in rule, but source, or of POWER, or the origins of it, which is ultimately GOD. Paul give it in the very first verses, 1 Corinthians 11:1 "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. 2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you". leaders are to set the example, not by force of authority, as peter said, 1 Peter 5:3 "Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock".


    second, as you can see, the head of the body, (the church) is Christ. for we are Bone of his bone, and flesh of his flesh. supportive scripture, Ephesians 5:30 "For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones". this is the NEW LIVING WAY he have provided for us, (Spirit). we are bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh, that GLORIFIED FLESH AND BONE. understanding the apostle ensample, as a woman is from a man, both the Man and the woman is from Christ, his body the NEW CREATION. as with the first Adam we were of him, but the second, or Last Adam everything is of and in him, he effects us, as the first Adam did in everything he did it affected us. so now there is a NEW Adam, a LIVE GIVING Adam. who he is the HEAD of the church. which power is of him, he is the governor of his church and set it in order. the context is about following, or keeping an ordinances. every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head". 5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven". what's going here is nothing new. just as with the the first church there was a problem in the daily ministrations of food. and it was fixed. as well as when the question of circumcision for the Gentiles in church. but all was made complete, now as it is here. following the context of the scriptures through verse 16, it was solved, as we can see. 1 Corinthians 11:16 "But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God". now that's very interesting. Paul said, "we have no such custom, neither the churches of God". this was a local matter that would not interfere with being holy in God, if a woman was covered or not. because the power or covering is in Christ Jesus. boy O boy, how come we today can't do that, understand scripture completely, and get an understanding. look up the word contentious,and see what it means, after reading the context about head covering, then one can understand the meaning of this word and the chapter.


    as I have said before, check and see what rules and regulation each local congregations have before you joined to it. as the apostle Paul said, " keep the ordinances". in LOVE.


    Now, the complete understanding, women was allowed to preach and teach in church. this verse proves it.

    1 Corinthians 11:10 "For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. the word Power in this verse is, "exousia". so in orde to preach she should have, see she is to preach, but have power, that's the question.

    Power, G1849 exousia (ex-ou-see'-ah) n.
    1. privilege
    2. (subjectively) force, capacity, competency, freedom
    3. (objectively) mastery (concretely, magistrate, superhuman, potentate, token of control), delegated influence
    [from G1832 (in the sense of ability)]
    KJV: authority, jurisdiction, liberty, power, right, strength



    see that word in #3, potentate, and the word Ability, with the FREEDOM to Preach, Teach, ect........let me post it again,

    according to Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries it's the word,

    G4368 prostatis (pros-tat'-is) n.
    1. a patroness, i.e. assistant
    [feminine of a derivative of G4291]
    KJV: succourer

    as we can see from the context, a women have power, or freedom in Christ Jesus to preach, teach, pastor, prophet, and apostle IN THE CHURCHES. that's plain and simple.

    "every", here in Corinthians is both men and women, because men and women in the new creation is ONE. and the head of the woman is the man, as one, because woman came out of man. in the church of our Lord Jesus Christ, we all are the same and we all are subjected to each other. just as the first woman and man, bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh. so are the new creatures in Christ Jesus, bone of his bone, flesh of his flesh, and as Christ is the head of the church, as well as mediator of the new covenant, that makes him with the Power of God as he is God in glorified flesh as mediator, the go between Spirit and the flesh. remember Christ is not the name of GOD, but the the work, and the manifestation of God on earth, meaning in POWER. for Christ said, All power is Given unto me in heaven and Earth. Amen.


    now we can test this quickly by example. most Christian address in Church, something like this, "Giving honor to Jesus who is the HEAD of my Life". here this is showing authority, as Christ is the authority in the christians life. Stop, what did the apostle Paul say, "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ", why didn't the apostle say something like this, "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Jesus". why did the apostle used Christ instead of the name JESUS, why use a title, instead of a Proper Name. simple, because he was not talking about authority in rulership, he was talking about power in Ability, with FREEDOM , supportive scripture, 2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty". that word liberty means freedom. Jesus church is about POWER IN HIM. where the power was place over men and women in his body. see the head of every man and woman is Christ. if any, (meaning every), if any man be in Christ he's a new Creation. read the whole context and one will see, and the resolve of it, in his conclusion, 1 Corinthians 11:16 "But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God". now look up the word contentious,and see what it means after reading the context about head covering. the whole book is worthy of your reading.



    now a bible study tip that might help some. when reading the bible, watch how the apostle, used the name and title of God in certain contexts and combinations. Example,

    Jesus

    Christ

    Christ Jesus

    Jesus Christ

    looking at the name and titles, one think that they are same, with the same meaning, wouldn't you. (smile)??????????. once you understand the usage of a name and, or the title, the meaning can change a scripture, or an entire chapter. try it out and see. see if a scripture is talking about the fleshly side of the Spirit or the spirit side, or of the Spirit. an whole new light is revealed.



    be blessed,



    Love and peace

    101G
     
  10. neophyte

    neophyte Member

    Messages:
    669
    Likes Received:
    11
    11:3- A husband the head of his wife: the specific problem suggests to Paul the model of the head as a device for clarifying relations within a hierarchical structure. The model is similar to that developed later in greater detail and nuance in [ Eph. 5:21-33 ]
    It is a hybrid model, for it grafts onto a strictly theological scale of existence [ 1Cor. 3:21-23 ] the hierachy of sociosexual relations prevalent in the ancient world: men, dominant, reflect the active function of Christ in relation to his church; women, submissive, reflect the passive role of the church with respect to its savior. This gives the functional scale : God, Christ, man, woman.
     
  11. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    1,196
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    learn context, and object

    Love and Peace
    101G
     
  12. epouraniois

    epouraniois Guest

    Greetings 101G,

    Thanks for the additional support words and structure. Well said. The church at Corinth was the seat of a rather large synagogue, Mars Hill, the epicenter of paganopolis (new word?), and although Paul said he would teach greater things of God, he could not because they could not bear it. Later, when the new creation was announced, and remember it was Paul the prisoner for the hope of you gentiles in this new creation, Paul is explaining a new relationship. The previous closest Biblical relationship was that of husband and wife, but now something new comes into view, and just as the husband and wife are one, so likewise is the head and body one. And in this new creation we find all members are absolutely equal, Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel - note the words beginning with the Greek "Su" or "Sun"
    1 G4789
    συγκληρονόμος
    sugklēronomos
    soong-klay-ron-om'-os
    From G4862 and G2818; a co-heir, that is, (by analogy) participant in common: - fellow (joint) -heir, heir together, heir with.

    2 G4954
    σύσσωμος
    sussōmos
    soos'-so-mos
    From G4862 and G4983; of a joint body, that is, (figuratively) a fellow member of the Christian community: - of the same body.

    3 G4830
    συμμέτοχος
    summetochos
    soom-met'-okh-os
    From G4862 and G3353; a co-participant: - partaker.

    Where the Greek Su, or, Sun (pronounced soon) donates, for completion

    And Pauls main goal: Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

    what mystery is this? ITs the one, hid from ages and from generations, but now made known...

    Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
    Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
    Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

    So there is a greater relationship, closer to Christ the Risen Lord, being displayed to this new creation (where the resurrection hope is not on earth but in heavenly places literally).

    And it is to this great end that Paul speaks of Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings...

    The new creation is a super heavenly sphere of blessing, all being absolutely equal, but it wasn't made known in the OT, nor the Acts where Paul says he said nothing but that which moses and the prophets did say, but now, in these prison epistles where he claims to be revealing this mystery which was hid in God from ages and from generations, the relationship has changed from that which came before. Paul writes about that too, how that those things which were gain are now but refuse as he seeks to reach forth to this high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

    Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
    Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

    And now that every person is equal in the eyes of God, (Israel is no longer the preimenent nation - all are equal before God in this new creation), we find where the head is
    Col 2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

    Satan likes for us to get into spats, rather than searching to see. Let us stick close to that which is written.

    Peace
     
  13. neophyte

    neophyte Member

    Messages:
    669
    Likes Received:
    11
    The NT was written in Koine Greek not your Attic Greek translation.

    Man and woman are absolutely equal in the eyes of God. Rather, the question is: "What sort of symbol is a woman and what sort of symbol is a priest?" As "symbols '' man and woman have different meanings. Women are not the appropriate image of Christ, the husband of the Church, just as men are inadequate symbols of Mary, the God-bearer.
     
  14. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    1,196
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    2 epouraniois,

    Glory to The Lord Jesus,

    now that's being a Berean, search the scripture, break down words. that what christians in leadership must do. make it plain for the rest. those on meat must chew up the word so that other may eat. Good research, now that's bible study. as it is written, there is so much to understand.



    And Pauls main goal: Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:


    this scripture is so true, mystery, mystery, mystery, but the wisdom of God make it plain, there is a God in heaven that reveals secrets, Glory to God. this is one of the mystery Jesus revealed unto me about women preacher, teacher, pastor, and ect.... as well as other women in the bible, who by unlearned men distorted the truth. as in Rahab. but the truth is coming out, that, no man can stop.

    epouraniois I encourage you to continue in your studying of God word, total his truth, and may he reveal more unto you, this is my prayer.



    stay bless



    love and peace

    101G
     
  15. neophyte

    neophyte Member

    Messages:
    669
    Likes Received:
    11
    Many of you ' sola Scriptura' adherents quote Acts 17:11 as "proof" that the Bible is the sole rule of the Christian faith. Some seem to imagine the Bereans to be a group of early Christians faithfully living according to what the Bible teaches when Paul comes along claiming to be a teacher. They listen to what he has to say but they also cautiously compare his teachings to what their Bibles say in order to be sure that what Paul is saying is authentic Christian doctrine.
    Interestingly, though, a closer look at Acts 17:11 reveals that the people of Berea were not " sola Scriptura" adherents at all. In actuality, they were primarily Jews converting to Christianity through Paul’s use of Sacred Tradition. Here’s the verse within its fuller context:

    The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea; and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men. (Acts 17:10-12)​
    Luke’s words commend the Bereans for being more noble than the Thessalonians because they eagerly received "the word." They also examined the scriptures to see if the word was true. So just who were the Bereans? What was "the word" they received and what scriptures did they examine?

    The Bereans, we’re told, were mainly Jews (and some Greeks), not Christians, and they even had a Jewish synagogue. The word they received was Paul’s teaching about Jesus?that same teaching which he sums up in his first letter to the Corinthians, "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures" (1 Cor. 15:3). The scriptures mentioned here by Paul are the same scriptures which the Bereans examined?the Old Testament scriptures. These were the only scriptures of the day, as no New Testament Scripture existed at the time. Most of the New Testament had not yet been written and what had been written had not yet been canonized so as to attain the status of Scripture. What we see here is a group of people being taught about Christianity by Paul prior to the existence of the New Testament. They eagerly listened to Paul while examining the Old Testament Scripture.
     
  16. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    1,196
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Many of you ' sola Scriptura' adherents quote Acts 17:11 as "proof" that the Bible is the sole rule of the Christian faith. Some seem to imagine the Bereans to be a group of early Christians faithfully living according to what the Bible teaches when Paul comes along claiming to be a teacher. They listen to what he has to say but they also cautiously compare his teachings to what their Bibles say in order to be sure that what Paul is saying is authentic Christian doctrine.



    Some people just miss the boat, other the the entire water.
     
  17. epouraniois

    epouraniois Guest

    Yes 101G, Glory to our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus. May we continue unto the telos, even the suntelios. It is good, always, to meet one such as yourself, searching to see, and finding the eyes of your understanding having been enlightened so that you may know what is the hope of His calling.

    Peace

    neophyte, greetings,

    I am not sure what you mean, that man and women are not real but somehow symbols? My reading is that God was literally married, and divorced, and seeking to again take not only the reconstituted wife, but the bride as well, that there is a real marriage supper going to take place.
    It is very interesting to note, that we don't find the church in the prison epistles being refered to in either way. The church presented as the revelation of the mystery is undeniably called a man, but never a she, her, wife, bride, none of that is presented, but one new man. Very interesting. Moreover, Abraham is not mentioned, the sphere of blessing is not on earth in resurrection, but far above all heavens, and not even associated with angels, but far above all powers and principalities and names. The name of this church, also known as the church which is His body, is called, 'the fulness'. Paul is trying his best to state over and over and over that he is talking about something new, something never before made known, that was a secret.

    And the relationship is not one of husband and wife, but one of head and body = a much closer relationship. In resurrection, there will be an earthly people, called the meek in Scripture. These will be blessed in basket and in store. All quite literal. Not so with this new creation calle, the church. Interesting again, is the fact that this church is never mentioned in the plural. Holy Words of earth, purified by the Holy Spirit,we are to believe them all, but within the given context.

    Another sphere of blessing is the New Jerusalem, which is for a set refered to as overcomers (a list in Heb. 11), as well as this secret being made known since the close of Acts where Israel is blinded for a time, they were blinded only in part during the Acts, and this church is associated with the far above all heavenly places, not on earth, not in the New Jerusalem.

    3 differing messages to 3 differeing spheres of blessings. Search and see.
     
  18. neophyte

    neophyte Member

    Messages:
    669
    Likes Received:
    11
    Yep! you're correct. Sounds like you have missed both. Paul was talking about the OT , get it. Try reading the rest of that post. It was about the OT not the NT . Understand ?
     
  19. epouraniois

    epouraniois Guest

    The Bereans, we’re told, were mainly Jews (and some Greeks), not Christians, and they even had a Jewish synagogue.​

    Partially true, I mean to say I partially agree, that it was Paul custom to go directly the synagogue, for the message from God was always to the Jew first, however, in almost every instance, the gentile was already a believer, see the letters sent forward from Jerusalem in Acts 15, but we know the only reason they got to hear Israel's message was to provoke her to emmulation, to jealousy (same greek word). Paul loved his people. We can still be more noble, and do the things of the Berean by searching to see if a thing is so. It is an appropriate thing to be actively doing.

    The gentile had no message of their own, Israel being the preeminate nation whereby the gentiles would be blessed and thereby fulfill God's long standing covenant with Abraham.

    Edit in, re: those in Beria, they did a couple of noble things, they received Paul's SCriptural message with all readiness of mind, but they searched to see if a thing was so, DAILY - thus becoming believers and followers of truth.
     
  20. neophyte

    neophyte Member

    Messages:
    669
    Likes Received:
    11

    I am tired of you Protestants [ Protestant, anybody that protests against Christ's Apostolic/ Catholic Church ] inventing another church totally different from Christ's Church along with a different gospel, much different from Christ's One True Gospel.
     
Loading...