Does the day of Christ resurrection tell us to worship on Sunday?

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GerhardEbersoehn

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…when does God get his turn to “finish his, own, work” that reconciled us with Him forever, the Resurrection of Christ from the dead “ON THE SABBATH”?
leaglism such an ugly thing, how it corrupts.

WHAT IS <LEGALISM> HERE, IS THIS,
Today, this day if we are so blessed as to hear his voice, we can put or faith in Jesus and enter into the New Covenant Sabbath and rest in the finished work of Jesus to forever reconcile us with God.

Mark it's 'legally' conditional, that, <<if we are so blessed .. we can put our faith in Jesus and (we can) enter into the New Covenant Sabbath and (we can) rest in the finished work of Jesus to reconcile us>>. Unless <we can> Jesus cannot-- that's <leagalism>!

GOT YOU!
I could have thought someone else was the <leagalist> here, but it is you, <Pilgrimer>. Thank you, mjrhealth for having helped exposing the right legalist! And please forgive me for having thrown the bait in your direction?
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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It just doesn't stop....
"If you read a bit of history and you will find the Catholics seven sacraments are not from what scripture gives us, but some truth mixed with falsehood derived from pagan rites and ceremonies. The seven sacraments came from another origin not from scripture, so baptism, confirmation, Eucharist (mass), penance/reconciliation (indulgences), extreme unction (last rights), marriage, and orders (ordination) came from pagan sources. The seven sacraments were not even formally decreed until the Council of Florence in 1439, the Council of Trent then declared to be anathema to not hold Rome's position that it was Christ Himself who instituted these seven sacraments. The idea of pushing the sacraments is that it supersedes the shedding of Christ's blood in His death upon the cross, and His death is of no value unless it is somehow dispensed and applied "sacramentally" by the Catholic priesthood.

Catholics are taught that the sacraments are indispensable for salvation, but baptism is considered the most important. Catholics doctrine is that a person enters into the spiritual life of the Church through baptism or really baptismal regeneration (that a person can be saved through baptism) so they practice infant baptism because they believe baptism erases original sin so the priest has power to do that. But scripture makes clear that we cannot be saved by works, and these sacraments even baptism in this form are not taught in the Bible.

The Mass is not from the Bible either, it like the others, has pagan origins. In the Roman Catholic mass, the Eucharist or “host” is a symbol of the sun from the old pagan worship. The round disc in the crescent moon was a symbol of ancient Babylon, and is found in all the ancient religions. Mass was never part of the early church, the mass did not become an official doctrine until pronounced by the Lateran Council of 1215 and then reaffirmed by the Council of Trent. The sacrifice of the mass is the central point of Catholic worship, as seen by the fact that those not attending and abstaining from mass are considered to have committed a mortal sin.

The Catholic Church didn't get to the Council of Trent and its unbiblical and pagan declarations by chance, slowly the church was led into apostasy. Here are some of the steps it took:

AD 310-It brought in the pagan prayers for the dead about 300 years after Christ.
AD about 320-Wax Candles for the pagan ritual of prayers was introduced in church.
AD 321- Pope Constantine passes a law requiring believers to worship on Sunday, the day the pagans worshipped the sun-god.
AD 321 to 364-Sunday worship instituted by the Council of Laodicea.
AD 327-Relic Worship was introduced in church.
AD 375-Veneration of angels and dead saints was introduced in church.
AD 394 -The Mass, as a daily celebration, adopted.
AD 431=The worship of Mary, the mother of Jesus, and the use of the term, "Mother of God", as applied to her, originated in the Council of Ephesus.
AD 500-Priests took on pagan appearance and dress differently from the laity
AD 590-The belief of Eternal Torment was introduced in church.
AD 593-The doctrine of Purgatory was first established by Pope Gregory I.
The Latin language, as the language of prayer and worship in churches, and a form of Western plainchant, was attributed to Pope Gregory I and so took the name of Gregorian chant.
AD 600-The introduction of prayers directed to Mary, or to dead saints. This practice began in the Roman Church during Pope Gregory I
AD 610-The title of pope or universal bishop, was declared given to the bishop of Rome by the emperor Phocas. Gregory 1, then bishop of Rome, refused the title, but his successor, Boniface III, first assumed title "pope."
AD 709-The kissing of the Pope's feet began. It had been a pagan custom to kiss the feet of emperors.
AD 788-Worship of the cross, images and relics was authorized
AD 850-Holy Water, mixed with a pinch of salt and blessed by the priest, was authorized
AD 965-The baptism of bells was instituted by Pope John XIV
AD 995-Canonization of dead saints, first by Pope John XV
AD 998-Fasting on Fridays and during Lent were imposed, some authorities say, began in the year 700.
AD around 1000-The Mass was developed gradually as a sacrifice; attendance made obligatory in the 11th century, some authorities say, began with the liturgy of Pope Gregory I and two versions from beyond the Alps, the Gelasian (originally from Rome) and the ancient Gallican.
AD 1079-The celibacy of the priesthood was decreed by Pope Hildebrand, Boniface VII
AD 1090-The Rosary, or prayer beads was introduced by Peter the Hermit, in the year 1090. Copied from Hindus and Mohammedans
AD 11184-The Inquisition of heretics was instituted by the Council of Verona.
AD 1190-The sale of Indulgences, commonly regarded as a purchase of forgiveness and a permit to indulge in sin and it was the protest against this traffic that brought on the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century.
AD 1215-The dogma of Transubstantiation was decreed by Pope Innocent III. By this doctrine the priest pretends to perform a daily miracle by changing a wafer into the body of Christ, and then lays claim to eat Him in the presence of his people during Mass.
AD 1215-Confession of sin to the priest at least once a year was instituted by Pope Innocent III., in the Lateran Council
AD 1220-The adoration of the wafer (Host), was decreed by Pope Honorius
which is plain idolatry.
AD 1229-The Bible forbidden to laymen and placed in the Index of forbidden books by the Council of Valencia
AD 1287-The Scapular was invented by Simon Stock, and English monk
It is a piece of brown cloth, with the picture of the Virgin and supposed to contain supernatural virtue to protect from all dangers those who wear it on naked skin.
AD 1311-Infant Baptism was introduced in church.
AD 1414-The Roman Church forbade the cup to the laity, by instituting the communion of one kind in the Council of Constance
AD 1439-The doctrine of Purgatory was proclaimed as a dogma of faith by Council of Florence
AD 1439-The doctrine of 7 Sacraments affirmed
AD 1808-The Ave Maria, part of the last was completed 50 years afterward and finally approved by Pope Sixtus V, at the end of the 16th century.
AD 1445-The Council of Trent, held in the year 1545, declared that Tradition is of equal authority with the Bible and apocryphal books were added to the Bible also by the Council of Trent

The Roman Church says it never changes and yet it has done nothing else but invent 'new doctrines' from pagan origin which are contrary to the Bible, and has brought in and practiced rites and ceremonies taken bodily from paganism.....

Dear Hobie, You have worked hard and long, and, discerningly. But the most important which you do not discern -- when are you going to SEE it? When are you and your church going to ADMIT its existence, what fight or defend its existence?

This RC <invented doctrine> has by God's Providence not been so strikingly MADE OBVIOUS in the past as by the most magnanimous unanimous effort the WHOLE Christian Church launched in the twentieth century "to change Times and Law of God". The Christian Church has had THREE gigantic successes in a row within one hundred years in making the Day-of-the-week Christ Resurrected "on", the First Day of the week, instead of "the Seventh-Day-Sabbath-REST-DAY-of-the-LORD GOD".
Anyone who studies history knows all this, and yet you find 'Christians' who neither 'hear or see' when it comes to what it shows....
 
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GerhardEbersoehn

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That's what I thought - a perversion of Scripture.
Time for a Bible lesson . . .

In Matt. 15:9, Mark 7:5-9, Jesus was speaking of the Pharisees and scribes who were living hypocritical lives and placing their traditions ABOVE the word of God and the spirit of the Law. Jesus wasn't condemning ALL Tradition - only the invented traditions of the Pharisees that THEY placed above God's Law.

St. Paul tells us that we are to hold fast to the traditions taught by the Apostles – either by an ORAL statement OR written letter (2 Thess. 2:15).

To show how serious he is about this in the very next chapter, he goes on to say, "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us” (2 Thess. 3:6).

He goes on to say in 1 Tim. 3:15, that the Church is the “pillar and foundation of truth” and the "FULLNESS of Christ" (Eph. 1:22-23).
He doesn’t say that the Bible is the pillar and foundation of truth or the fullness of Christ because it hadn’t been compiled yet and much of it hadn’t yet been written.

In one of the many passages where Jesus relayed his authority to the Apostles, he promised them that there were many things they needed to know but could not hear at that time. He also promised them that the Holy Spirit would guide his Church to ALL truth about the things that were coming (John 16:13-15).

Jesus says of His Church in Luke 10:16, “Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent me.”
He gave His Church supreme earthly Authority - that WHATEVER His Church declares on earth will also be declared in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 20:21-23).

When you reject Church teachings, you are really rejecting Christ, who identifies his very SELF with his Church in Acts 9:4-5.

If I were to award you marks for your lesson in doing Bible study, a hole with my marker pierced through your paper for to throw it out the window of my classroom, would be too good, as my erstwhile teacher thought of my arithmetic homework.
 

Pilgrimer

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There is no <Old Covenant> of God as there is no old sabbath of the LORD.

Actually there is, and it is recorded in a collection of books called the "Old Testament." The first five books of that collection are the "books of Moses" that contain the covenant God made with the nation of Israel when he delivered them from the bondage of Egypt a very long time ago, a covenant based on the Law given through Moses, a very long time ago. That first covenant that is recorded in the first testament included the commandments concerning the Sabbaths and their observances and all their sacrifices and offerings and ordinances, as well as prophesies about what the Sabbaths foreshadowed.

But through Jeremiah (31:31-34) God foretold that the day would come when he would make a "new covenant." Now Paul says in Hebrews (8:6-13) that the new covenant mediated by Jesus is better than that first covenant, and being a new covenant means the first covenant had grown old and at the time of Paul's writing the letter to the Hebrew Christians that first covenant, the Mosaic Covenant, having grown old (some 1400 years old in fact), was ready to vanish away.

So it is not only Biblically sound but is imminently acceptable to speak of the two covenants as the "Old" and the "New."

To speak of an old covenant sabbath is to speak ineffable nonsense, and to speak of a sabbath day as God’s Rest is unspeakable blasphemy.

Careful there my friend, else you find yourself calling the Apostle Paul and even God himself blasphemers.

"For [God] spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest." That "certain place" Paul mentions where God said these things about the 7th day and about God's people entering his rest is through David. Read this and think on it very carefully:

"To day if you will hear his voice, Harden not your heart, as in the day of provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work. Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they shall not enter into my rest." (Psalms 95:7-11)

Paul cites this word from God to explain that there is a rest that the 7th day foreshadowed, what Isaiah beautifully calls "the resting place:" Again, read it carefully and prayerfully:

"For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing; yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go and backslide, and be broken, and snared, and taken." (Isaiah 28:9-13)

So if you are laboring under the misguided notion that the "rest" of God is limited to only the 7th day Sabbath, you should consider that it doesn't require "faith" to take Saturday's off work. But it did require faith for the Israelites to cease their wanderings and enter the promised land (the resting place), which they failed to do because of unbelief.

"Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limited a certain day, saying in David, "To day, after so long a time; as it is written, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, For if Jesus had given them rest (the Israelites kept the 7th day Sabbath during the wilderness wanderings), then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us therefore labor to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief." Hebrews 4:6-11

The weekly Sabbath, like everything else in the Law, was temporary, no matter how meticulously it was observed one had to get up the next day and go back to work. So by it's very nature it was a temporary rest, just as by it's very nature the Old Covenant atonement for sin was temporary and had to be repeated year after year. But the Sabbath, indeed all the sabbaths served as a shadow of a day that God had ordained when His people would find and enter into that place of God's rest and never again have to labor for their daily bread and meat.

There's an old hymn that I think says all this far more beautifully than I can:

My faith has found a resting place
Not in device or creed
I trust the Ever-Living One
His wounds for me shall plead
I need no other argument
I need no other plea
It is enough that Jesus died
And that he died for me.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
 
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Pilgrimer

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I could have thought someone else was the <leagalist> here, but it is you, <Pilgrimer>. Thank you, mjrhealth for having helped exposing the right legalist!

"To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts ... for he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us therefore labor to enter into that rest ..."

It is a difficult thing for legalists to learn to rest in faith that it is Jesus who makes us right with God, not our obedience to laws and commandments.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
 
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Helen

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do you read them Helen?


I do brother...and yet still not convinced. I guess God has not shown me that anything other then Jesus Christ and entering into His rest is our Sabbath. He is the fulfillment of all things.
He Himself is The Promise.

I don't try and convince anyone else on that...but it is where 'I am'.

A very happy and blessed New Year to you brother.
We don't se enough of you on here these days...you must have found another forum somewhere?

God bless... Helen
 

BreadOfLife

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Scripture condemns Tradition that perverts the Word of God; Scripture condemns the perverter even more. As Bunyan said, "Whatever contradicts the Word of God should be instantly resisted as diabolical." ..."instantly resisted" : for what it is: "diabolical".
I couldn't agree more.
 

BreadOfLife

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And what do you think the Roman Catholic Church did....it was the same thing..
Where Did the Seven Sacraments Come From?
The Mystery of the Eucharist
The Meaning of Rosary Beads
Untitled Page
https://www.history.com/topics/holidays/samhain
It just goes on and on but this one was interesting...
"The fertile ground for the decline of Christian influence and the return of paganism was actually prepared during the early centuries of Christianity. As the Church grew and spread throughout the Mediterranean world, it encountered many pagan ideas and practices that some did not discard, but rather adopted and absorbed into their doctrine. These customs were popular, and apostate church leaders reasoned that incorporating them would make it easier for pagans to convert to this new religion. The biblical Sabbath observed by Jesus, the apostles, and early Christians (Luke 4:16; Acts 13:14, 42–44; 17:1–2) was abandoned in favor of Sunday, a day already acknowledged by pagans who, like Emperor Constantine, worshipped the sun. The popular winter festival of the Saturnalia—a time of gambling, merry-making, and social role-reversal—was renamed “Christmas” and observed as Jesus’ birthday, despite the total lack of biblical support for the major deviation from original Christian practice that the festival represented. (See Gerald E. Weston’s article “Does Christmas Matter?,” on page 18 of this issue.) The pagan springtime fertility festivals with eggs, rabbits, and sexually-oriented activities honoring Aphrodite and Ishtar (“the queen of heaven”) were adopted by increasingly apostate leaders and named “Easter” under the guise of remembering Jesus’ resurrection—even though the Scriptures condemn these practices (see, for example, Jeremiah 7:18; 44:18–23; Ezekiel 8:15–18)."
The Rise of Modern Paganism
Your ignorance is astounding.

First of all - Christmas and Saturnalia have nothing to do with each other.
The pagan celebration of Sol Invictus and Saturnalia goes from December 17th and ends on 23rd. It wasn’t even adopted until the Roman Emperor Aurelian made it official in 274 AD.

The Christian historian, Hippolytus of Rome, explains in his Commentary on the Book of Daniel (c. A.D. 204) that the birth of Jesus was believed to have taken place on December 25th:

“For the first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th, Wednesday, while Augustus was in his forty-second year, but from Adam, five thousand and five hundred years. He suffered in the thirty-third year, March 25th, Friday, the eighteenth year of Tiberius Caesar, while Rufus and Roubellion were Consuls.”

Hippolytus’ reference to Adam is from another one of his writings, the Chronicon, where he explains that Jesus was born nine months to the day of March 25th. According to his calculations, the world was created on the vernal equinox, March 25. It was also believed that the Crucifixion took place on the anniversary of that date, some 5500 years later. This means that the Early Church believed that the Annunciation took place on March 25th on the anniversary of the Creation. The consensus was that Jesus was born exactly nine months later on December 25th.

Hippolytus's work was dates 204 AD - a full 70 years BEFORE the adoption of the pagan holiday.

As for your Easter/Ishtar nonsense - this is yet another whopper invented by debunked anti-Catholic author, Alexander Hislop and his laughable book The Two Babylons. Easter is an ENGLISH word that sounds a lot like "Ishtar". Unfortunately for Hislop - and ignorant readers like yourself - English is a fairly NEW language on the world stage. MOST ancient languages use the root word Pasche or Pascha or Pasque for Easter - so there goes that idiotic theory . . .

Do your homework and get back to me . . .
 
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GerhardEbersoehn

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"To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts ... for he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us therefore labor to enter into that rest ..."

It is a difficult thing for legalists to learn to rest in faith that it is Jesus who makes us right with God, not our obedience to laws and commandments.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

It is difficult thing for self-righteous antinomians not to judge and condemn the - to them - <legalists>, that <<to rest in faith that it is Jesus who makes us right with God, not our obedience to laws and commandment>>, is the motto, rule and very LAW OF THEIR LIVES. It is difficult for them to learn and the impossible for them to believe about those for whom it is not that they chose Jesus that saves them, but that Jesus had chosen them from long before they were born or were reborn Christians.
 
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GerhardEbersoehn

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I do brother...and yet still not convinced. I guess God has not shown me that anything other then Jesus Christ and entering into His rest is our Sabbath. He is the fulfillment of all things.
He Himself is The Promise.

I don't try and convince anyone else on that...but it is where 'I am'.

God showed you nothing like that <<Jesus Christ is our Sabbath>>, or, that our <<entering into His rest is [-HIS-] Sabbath>>. Jesus Christ and being reborn into Him bring us into "the Rest of God" - [katapausis tou Theou] Jesus Christ the Son of God Himself. And even though Scripture has it written, "the day the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD your GOD", and, "the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath .. made for man", NO ONE ever has been brought into Jesus Christ who is God's Rest, and the Lord's Day, the Sabbath of the LORD GOD the Seventh Day of the week may NEVER have been involved or even have been a factor in the salvation of any—who are by far the ‘many’ saved.
 
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Helen

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God showed you nothing like that <<Jesus Christ is our Sabbath>>, or, that our <<entering into His rest is [-HIS-] Sabbath>>. Jesus Christ and being reborn into Him bring us into "the Rest of God" - [katapausis tou Theou] Jesus Christ the Son of God Himself. And even though Scripture has it written, "the day the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD your GOD", and, "the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath .. made for man", NO ONE ever has been brought into Jesus Christ who is God's Rest, and the Lord's Day, the Sabbath of the LORD GOD the Seventh Day of the week may NEVER have been involved or even have been a factor in the salvation of any.


And , bless you too brother.... ( "My sheep know My voice and a stranger they will not follow." )

Have a happy new year...if you can...
 
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Pilgrimer

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It is difficult thing for self-righteous antinomians not to judge and condemn the - to them - <legalists>, that <<to rest in faith that it is Jesus who makes us right with God, not our obedience to laws and commandment>>, is the motto, rule and very LAW OF THEIR LIVES. It is difficult for them to learn and the impossible for them to believe about those for whom it is not that they chose Jesus that saves them, but that Jesus had chosen them from long before they were born or were reborn Christians.

I find that it is usually legalists who tend to be "self" righteous, thinking they are righteous in and of themselves, because of something they do, in particular because they obey a few commandments of the Old Covenant. The Pharisees are a prime example.

I also find that antinomians tend to be misguided extremists and usually hedonistic. I reject that whole doctrine.

I am a Christian and I believe it is the law of sin and death codified in the Law of Moses that Christians are free from. But that does not mean we are either lawless or amoral, but that we are subject to the absolute authority of the Spirit of God in Christ who dwells in us, which is predicated upon the necessity of the new birth and the exercise of faith.

I also do not agree with personal predestination. If God has not given man the ability to choose to obey or disobey Him, then any guilt for sin is on God's head, not the sinner's, which to my mind is anathema.

And the Sabbath was a shadow of resting in the finished work of Christ to reconcile us with God.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
 
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GerhardEbersoehn

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I do not sweat the small stuff, thank God. I know who love me, first of whom is God; and I know whom I love, God give, Him first. Thereafter, let the whole world go to hell! O, how can I say I love God while I hate the whole world? Sure, that's the way, I pray, I may, love God above all. The Bible tells me so. Thank God that there are signs that the world hates me; that's really, very consoling.
 
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GerhardEbersoehn

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I find that it is usually legalists who tend to be "self" righteous, thinking they are righteous in and of themselves, because of something they do, in particular because they obey a few commandments of the Old Covenant. The Pharisees are a prime example.

I also find that antinomians tend to be misguided extremists and usually hedonistic. I reject that whole doctrine.

I am a Christian and I believe it is the law of sin and death codified in the Law of Moses that Christians are free from. But that does not mean we are either lawless or amoral, but that we are subject to the absolute authority of the Spirit of God in Christ who dwells in us, which is predicated upon the necessity of the new birth and the exercise of faith.

I also do not agree with personal predestination. If God has not given man the ability to choose to obey or disobey Him, then any guilt for sin is on God's head, not the sinner's, which to my mind is anathema.

And the Sabbath was a shadow of resting in the finished work of Christ to reconcile us with God.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

I find .. I also find .. I reject .. I also do not .. to my mind .. we are .. we are .. the Spirit in us .. ad infinitum until <<any guilt for sin is on God's head, not the sinner's>>

Listen, PLEASE HAVE YOUR RELIGION, FOR YOURSELF.