Does the day of Christ resurrection tell us to worship on Sunday?

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Your ignorance is astounding.

First of all - Christmas and Saturnalia have nothing to do with each other.
The pagan celebration of Sol Invictus and Saturnalia goes from December 17th and ends on 23rd. It wasn’t even adopted until the Roman Emperor Aurelian made it official in 274 AD.

The Christian historian, Hippolytus of Rome, explains in his Commentary on the Book of Daniel (c. A.D. 204) that the birth of Jesus was believed to have taken place on December 25th:

“For the first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th, Wednesday, while Augustus was in his forty-second year, but from Adam, five thousand and five hundred years. He suffered in the thirty-third year, March 25th, Friday, the eighteenth year of Tiberius Caesar, while Rufus and Roubellion were Consuls.”

Hippolytus’ reference to Adam is from another one of his writings, the Chronicon, where he explains that Jesus was born nine months to the day of March 25th. According to his calculations, the world was created on the vernal equinox, March 25. It was also believed that the Crucifixion took place on the anniversary of that date, some 5500 years later. This means that the Early Church believed that the Annunciation took place on March 25th on the anniversary of the Creation. The consensus was that Jesus was born exactly nine months later on December 25th.

Hippolytus's work was dates 204 AD - a full 70 years BEFORE the adoption of the pagan holiday.

As for your Easter/Ishtar nonsense - this is yet another whopper invented by debunked anti-Catholic author, Alexander Hislop and his laughable book The Two Babylons. Easter is an ENGLISH word that sounds a lot like "Ishtar". Unfortunately for Hislop - and ignorant readers like yourself - English is a fairly NEW language on the world stage. MOST ancient languages use the root word Pasche or Pascha or Pasque for Easter - so there goes that idiotic theory . . .

Do your homework and get back to me . . .

Your ignorance is astounding.

First of all - Christmas and Saturnalia have nothing to do with each other.
The pagan celebration of Sol Invictus and Saturnalia goes from December 17th and ends on 23rd. It wasn’t even adopted until the Roman Emperor Aurelian made it official in 274 AD.

The Christian historian, Hippolytus of Rome, explains in his Commentary on the Book of Daniel (c. A.D. 204) that the birth of Jesus was believed to have taken place on December 25th:

“For the first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th, Wednesday, while Augustus was in his forty-second year, but from Adam, five thousand and five hundred years. He suffered in the thirty-third year, March 25th, Friday, the eighteenth year of Tiberius Caesar, while Rufus and Roubellion were Consuls.”

Hippolytus’ reference to Adam is from another one of his writings, the Chronicon, where he explains that Jesus was born nine months to the day of March 25th. According to his calculations, the world was created on the vernal equinox, March 25. It was also believed that the Crucifixion took place on the anniversary of that date, some 5500 years later. This means that the Early Church believed that the Annunciation took place on March 25th on the anniversary of the Creation. The consensus was that Jesus was born exactly nine months later on December 25th.

Hippolytus's work was dates 204 AD - a full 70 years BEFORE the adoption of the pagan holiday.

As for your Easter/Ishtar nonsense - this is yet another whopper invented by debunked anti-Catholic author, Alexander Hislop and his laughable book The Two Babylons. Easter is an ENGLISH word that sounds a lot like "Ishtar". Unfortunately for Hislop - and ignorant readers like yourself - English is a fairly NEW language on the world stage. MOST ancient languages use the root word Pasche or Pascha or Pasque for Easter - so there goes that idiotic theory . . .

Do your homework and get back to me . . .

Astounding!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Actually there is, and it is recorded in a collection of books called the "Old Testament." The first five books of that collection are the "books of Moses" that contain the covenant God made with the nation of Israel when he delivered them from the bondage of Egypt a very long time ago, a covenant based on the Law given through Moses, a very long time ago. That first covenant that is recorded in the first testament included the commandments concerning the Sabbaths and their observances and all their sacrifices and offerings and ordinances, as well as prophesies about what the Sabbaths foreshadowed.

But through Jeremiah (31:31-34) God foretold that the day would come when he would make a "new covenant." Now Paul says in Hebrews (8:6-13) that the new covenant mediated by Jesus is better than that first covenant, and being a new covenant means the first covenant had grown old and at the time of Paul's writing the letter to the Hebrew Christians that first covenant, the Mosaic Covenant, having grown old (some 1400 years old in fact), was ready to vanish away.

So it is not only Biblically sound but is imminently acceptable to speak of the two covenants as the "Old" and the "New."



Careful there my friend, else you find yourself calling the Apostle Paul and even God himself blasphemers.

"For [God] spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest." That "certain place" Paul mentions where God said these things about the 7th day and about God's people entering his rest is through David. Read this and think on it very carefully:

"To day if you will hear his voice, Harden not your heart, as in the day of provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work. Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they shall not enter into my rest." (Psalms 95:7-11)

Paul cites this word from God to explain that there is a rest that the 7th day foreshadowed, what Isaiah beautifully calls "the resting place:" Again, read it carefully and prayerfully:

"For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing; yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go and backslide, and be broken, and snared, and taken." (Isaiah 28:9-13)

So if you are laboring under the misguided notion that the "rest" of God is limited to only the 7th day Sabbath, you should consider that it doesn't require "faith" to take Saturday's off work. But it did require faith for the Israelites to cease their wanderings and enter the promised land (the resting place), which they failed to do because of unbelief.

"Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limited a certain day, saying in David, "To day, after so long a time; as it is written, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, For if Jesus had given them rest (the Israelites kept the 7th day Sabbath during the wilderness wanderings), then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us therefore labor to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief." Hebrews 4:6-11

The weekly Sabbath, like everything else in the Law, was temporary, no matter how meticulously it was observed one had to get up the next day and go back to work. So by it's very nature it was a temporary rest, just as by it's very nature the Old Covenant atonement for sin was temporary and had to be repeated year after year. But the Sabbath, indeed all the sabbaths served as a shadow of a day that God had ordained when His people would find and enter into that place of God's rest and never again have to labor for their daily bread and meat.

There's an old hymn that I think says all this far more beautifully than I can:

My faith has found a resting place
Not in device or creed
I trust the Ever-Living One
His wounds for me shall plead
I need no other argument
I need no other plea
It is enough that Jesus died
And that he died for me.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

God, never had an old covenant. An old covenant has to be yours.

 

[Pilgrimer]

I find .. I also find .. I reject .. I also do not .. to my mind .. we are .. we are .. the Spirit in us .. ad infinitum until <<any guilt for sin is on God's head, not the sinner's>>

Listen, PLEASE HAVE YOUR RELIGION, FOR YOURSELF.

Your responses are nonsensical and you take things so far out of context the discussion loses all meaning. Do you have a point?

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[amadeus]

is it entertainment that is wanted?

Yes, some readily admit it and others while not admitting it so readily are probably effectively in the same place.

 

[Pilgrimer]

The Christian historian, Hippolytus of Rome, explains in his Commentary on the Book of Daniel (c. A.D. 204) that the birth of Jesus was believed to have taken place on December 25th:

“For the first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th, Wednesday, while Augustus was in his forty-second year, but from Adam, five thousand and five hundred years. He suffered in the thirty-third year, March 25th, Friday, the eighteenth year of Tiberius Caesar, while Rufus and Roubellion were Consuls.”

Actually, there are earlier historical references to the Christian observance of Christ's birth, before that of Hippolytus. Clement, the co-worker of. St. Paul and mentioned by him in his Epistle to the Philippians (iii. 3), wrote in the late 1st century: “Brethren, keep diligently feast days; and truly in the first place the day of Christ's birth.”

And then a few years later, in A.D. 137, Telesphorus, Bishop of Rome wrote these injunctions to the churches: "... that in the holy night of the Nativity of our Lord and Saviour, they do celebrate public Church services, and in them solemnly sing the Angels' Hymn, because also the same night he was declared unto the shepherds by an angel, as the truth itself doth witnesse.”

So this is historical proof that Christians were observing the birthday of Jesus even from the time of the Apostles. In fact, at first the Church at Rome resisted the whole idea of a "nativity feast" deeming it an oriental invention.

And in this same period Theophilus, Bishop of Caesarea in Judea, recommends “the celebration of the birth-day of Our Lord, on what day soever the 25th of December shall happen.”

So there is ample evidence from the Apostolic Fathers themselves (the Apostolic Fathers were those who were directly taught by the Apostles and their writings reflect Christianity as the Apostles taught it) that the birth of Jesus was being celebrated as far back as the latter years of the 1st century and the December 25 dates as early as the first years of the 2nd century, long before Rome invented the birthday of Sol Invictus to try to counter the Christian influence that was having so much success in converting Romans to Christ and away from the pagan gods of their fathers. The Roman Emperor Julian the Apostate even wrote a letter to his pagan High Priest with a plot to try to win back the Roman masses by having the pagan priests emulate the Christians and their good works. I suppose it's not surprising how the enemies of Christ would flip that narrative and pass off the lie that it was the Christians who were adopting paganism to try to win converts. But it's sad that so many Christians just accept the claims without a question.

As for your Easter/Ishtar nonsense - this is yet another whopper invented by debunked anti-Catholic author, Alexander Hislop and his laughable book The Two Babylons. Easter is an ENGLISH word that sounds a lot like "Ishtar".

Quite right! It was William Tynndale, the man who first translated the Bible into English, who coined the word Easter, along with many other words like passover and even the name Jehovah. Tynndale had to flee his homeland (the church was trying to stop him from translating the Bible) and he joined up with Luther who had already translated the Bible into German. So Tynndale made use of Luther's translation and many of the English words he coined have their roots in German. Easter was the English equivalent of Oster (which derived from the Old Teutonic auferstehn which literally means "resurrection").

So just a few comments in support. Glad to see actual history being brought to bear.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[marksman]

That's fine - but you're not disregarding anything from me.
You're disregarding the Word of God . . .

Thank you for your opinion which is noted and disregarded.

 

[brakelite]

Jesus wasn't condemning ALL Tradition - only the invented traditions of the Pharisees that THEY placed above God's Law.

Mmm... Like this one???


Google Image Result for https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e3/fc/2a/e3fc2acb59a9f2f33e825f5826b585f2.jpg

 

[mjrhealth]

I do brother...and yet still not convinced. I guess God has not shown me that anything other then Jesus Christ and entering into His rest is our Sabbath. He is the fulfillment of all things.
He Himself is The Promise.

I don't try and convince anyone else on that...but it is where 'I am'.

A very happy and blessed New Year to you brother.
We don't se enough of you on here these days...you must have found another forum somewhere?

God bless... Helen

Oh Helen, and you are troubled with your posts, you are a blessing.

 

[brakelite]

Once again - your claim perverts Scripture:
2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a letter from us."

This verse equates Sacred Tradition with Scripture.
This is NOT talking about minor traditions and disciplines such as the Rosary or abstaining from meat on Fridays during Lent.

Infant Baptism is an Apostolic Tradition.
The Canon of Scripture itself is a Catholic Tradition - and proves John 16:12-15, where Jesus guaranteed that the Holy Spirit would guide His Church to ALL truth.

And what about the churches that aren't His? They would have to rely on tradition rather the scripture huh? Like this church did here...

"The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day. The Council of Trent (Sess. VI, can. xix) condemns those who deny that the Ten Commandments are binding on Christians." The Catholic Encyclopedia, Commandments of God, Volume IV, © 1908 by Robert Appleton Company, Online Edition © 1999 by Kevin Knight, Nihil Obstat - Remy Lafort, Censor Imprimatur - +John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York, page 153.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Your responses are nonsensical and you take things so far out of context the discussion loses all meaning. Do you have a point?
In Christ,
Pilgrimer

Does this <discussion>, <have a point>? Read! It's at the top, for your information and YOU are the one <out of context> and off topic, pal. Here's a forum just for you and your nonsensical responses to the points raised in this thread...
Christian Spirituality Forum

 

[Pilgrimer]

Does this <discussion>, <have a point>? Read! It's at the top, for your information and YOU are the one <out of context> and off topic, pal. Here's a forum just for you and your nonsensical responses to the points raised in this thread...
Christian Spirituality Forum

Again, please dispense with the personal insults and make a point about the topic.

We were discussing the sabbaths of the Old Covenant and whether they were types and shadows of New Covenant blessings or is the New Covenant rest just a continuation of the Old commandments.

I say the sabbaths of the Law, just like every other jot and tittle of the Law, were types and shadows that were fulfilled in the New Covenant blessings that we enjoy today, in the day of salvation, when the people of God through the new birth are raised up to new life in God's Kingdom of Heaven and enter into rest in the finished work of Christ which alone makes us righteous and acceptable to God.

Thus it is the "Day of Salvation" that is the New Covenant fulfillment of the 7th day.

Sunday, the 8th day, is the celebration of the resurrection of Jesus and the beginning of the new creation.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

St. Paul tells us that we are to hold fast to the traditions taught by the Apostles – either by an “ORAL statement OR written letter” (2 Thess. 2:15).

Fearless cowardice taken to beyond limits simply proven and paraded by your emission of the last two little but austere words which Paul wrote as the Holy Spirit directed him to write, "either by an oral statement or written letter FROM US" the apostles of Jesus, not from the brother lovers' playboy pope.
Keep on with your fraud; it helps to recognise the deceiver when one sees him.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

We were discussing the sabbaths of the Old Covenant and whether they were types and shadows of New Covenant blessings or is the New Covenant rest just a continuation of the Old commandments.

No man, that was YOUR attempt at derailing the thread which is: <Does the day of Christ's resurrection tell us to worship on Sunday?>-- a topic you have not the faintest daintiest clue about.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Again, please dispense with the personal insults and make a point about the topic.

We were discussing the sabbaths of the Old Covenant and whether they were types and shadows of New Covenant blessings or is the New Covenant rest just a continuation of the Old commandments.

I say the sabbaths of the Law, just like every other jot and tittle of the Law, were types and shadows that were fulfilled in the New Covenant blessings that we enjoy today, in the day of salvation, when the people of God through the new birth are raised up to new life in God's Kingdom of Heaven and enter into rest in the finished work of Christ which alone makes us righteous and acceptable to God.

Thus it is the "Day of Salvation" that is the New Covenant fulfillment of the 7th day.

Sunday, the 8th day, is the celebration of the resurrection of Jesus and the beginning of the new creation.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

DUH!

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all.
Addressing the OP only
if his resurrection as the topic states, "the day of Christ resurrection tell us to worship on Sunday", well one thing for sure it tells us that the ingathering of the harvest is near. how near? no man knows only signs are given. but as the apostle paul said "I have men to pray always". worship is every day. and we're not to forsake the gathering of ourselves, Hebrews 10:25.

with that said, we are in a eight day covenant, not a seven day covenant. and there is no restriction when to worship.

PICJAG.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Y A W N...

oh no...not ANOTHER thread on this...there have been so many...and some still going ...Nothing new, same ol' same ol' arguments ...

Sure. I most deeply sympathise ... the likes of Hobie --any SDA-- is enough to put anyone to sleep ...Nothing new, same ol' same ol' arguments ... Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Dear Helen, please give me a fight!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

GINOLJC, to all.
Addressing the OP only
if his resurrection as the topic states, "the day of Christ resurrection tell us to worship on Sunday", well one thing for sure it tells us that the ingathering of the harvest is near. how near? no man knows only signs are given. but as the apostle paul said "I have men to pray always". worship is every day. and we're not to forsake the gathering of ourselves, Hebrews 10:25.

with that said, we are in a eight day covenant, not a seven day covenant. and there is no restriction when to worship.

PICJAG.

As for Pilgrimmer, so for you too Scriptureless God's Word-less... DUH!

 

[Helen]

Sure. I most deeply sympathise ... the likes of Hobie --any SDA-- is enough to put anyone to sleep ...Nothing new, same ol' same ol' arguments ... Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Dear Helen, please give me a fight!

Thank you!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Mmm... Like this one???


Google Image Result for https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e3/fc/2a/e3fc2acb59a9f2f33e825f5826b585f2.jpg

More of Alexander Hislop’s nonsense.

The vessel that holds the consecrated host is called a monstrance. The design symbolizes the glory of God – not sunbeams.

Catholics don’t worship the sun – and any attempt to falsely accuse the Church of this idiotic nonsense is completely unsubstantiated.

 

[BreadOfLife]

And what about the churches that aren't His? They would have to rely on tradition rather the scripture huh? Like this church did here...

"The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day. The Council of Trent (Sess. VI, can. xix) condemns those who deny that the Ten Commandments are binding on Christians." The Catholic Encyclopedia, Commandments of God, Volume IV, © 1908 by Robert Appleton Company, Online Edition © 1999 by Kevin Knight, Nihil Obstat - Remy Lafort, Censor Imprimatur - +John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York, page 153.

Jesus transferred HIS supreme Authority to His CHURCH (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23). He declared that WHATEVER His Church loosed or held bound on earth would also be loosed or held bound in Heaven.

When His Church declares a truth – it is done so under the guidance of the Holy Spirit – who guides His Church to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).

Study your Bible.