Does the Kingdom of God being at hand mean it will come or that it has come?

[Pathfinder7]

Good topic/title..
--
Interesting/informative book..
'The Gospel of the Kingdom'
- Scriptural Studies in the Kingdom of God.
- George Eldon Ladd
- Kindle ebook
---
He used the phrase..
-"already and not yet"

 

[Karl Peters]

Good topic/title..
--
Interesting/informative book..
'The Gospel of the Kingdom'
- Scriptural Studies in the Kingdom of God.
- George Eldon Ladd
- Kindle ebook
---
He used the phrase..
-"already and not yet"

It is a good topic - but not really!!!

I say that because the kingdom of God is not a "topic" it is a reality for real Christians!!

We don't read about it, we experience it!

We don't study about angels but we have them sent to minister to us!!!

Heb 1:13,14 But to which of the angels has He ever said,
“SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES
A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET”?
Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?

Why are the above 2 verse questions?????

Do we not understand???

Those veres were questions for the same reason this thread was presented as a question!!

They are questions that show people where they stand with the King and His Kingdom!!!

That is to say; that if you don't know that answer clearly, precisely, and adamantly, it is because you don't really know tha KING OF KINGS WHO AS SUCH HAS A KINGDOM WHICH HE PROCLAIMS/PREACHES - BECAUSE HE WANTS YOU TO BE PART OF HIS KINGDOM - THOSE WHO TRUTHFULLY CALL HIM LORD BECAUSE THEY PERSONALLY GET INSTUCTIONS FROM HIM!!

Ok, you can find books on this to study, but if it is not part of your personal life you need to "SEEK FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD" - like it commanded, even in the Bible you have put your faith in, as opposed to Him!!

Do you really know that KING OF KINGS if the first thing you think of is to read a book about Him and His kingdom? If you really know Him, wouldn't the first thing you'd think would be to actually ask Him and thus seek Him and His Kingdom?

 

[Pathfinder7]

we experience it

Good point..
---
My perspective is..
- we experience it..
--
& read the books.
- It can be helpful.
---
I am saying this..from my experience..
- on my spiritual journey..50+ years.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

The day that Jesus went to Heaven and his disciples got the Message that Jesus was the Christ in fact, was the Kingdom of God was at hand in fact ! Bingo ! It started !
Matt 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

 

[Karl Peters]

Good point..
---
My perspective is..
- we experience it..
--
& read the books.
- It can be helpful.
---
I am saying this..from my experience..
- on my spiritual journey..50+ years.

Just so everyone knows, I am absolutely not against, but rather I am for, reading and studying about the Kingdom of God!

Never-the-less, if and since the Kingdom of God is a reality and it is in our midst, is not the best way to get understanding about it to seek it???

In our studies, did we not read something about seeking first the Kingdom of God?

So those who have been indeed seeking the Kingdom of God should exchange information, say in the form of books, and especially in the form of the Holy Scriptures, which are books we respect as coming from our Lord through people that indeed knew the King and His Kingdom and wrote about it.

Yet it is not a dead kingdom, as if something of the past, right? And so if indeed we have sought first the Kingdom of God, which would include the KING OF KINGS who is our Lord Jesus Christ, then we certainly must know something about it from experience!! And it should not be a rare occurance, as many present it, since it is always in our midst!!

That is the way it is for me, anyway. This morning in the shower I heard angels sent from the Lord. They were telling me that they were going to help me today, to clean up some things with my business. I sell books and other media items on-line and have too many needing to be listed on sites, and they were going to help me with that. Still, after the shower the told me to seek the Father, and that by again sitting in my favorite chair and starting by praying the Lord's prayer! The first things asked for in that prayer is, "Thy Kingdom come", and that with "Thy will be done here on earth as it is in heaven">

So how does His will get done in heaven, if not by His Kingdom - and those He instructs in the kingdom of heaven?

Therefore He, God, had already made arraignments to provide for His Kingdom to help me so that I would pray for it, and He could answer it. That is to say that His will is going to get done here on earth in my life because He sent His Kingdom to minster to me, help me, and watch over me, just like it is written in the Scriptures!!

Still, I have Christians tell me they know nothing of this, and at the same time tell me they follow the Bible???

So what happened? Did they not pray "Thy Kingdom come"? Perhaps they do not want His will to be done here on earth as it is in heaven? Of maybe they don't expect God is so faithful as to have already made preparations to fulfill that request so if it is prayed, Thy Kingdom Come and Thy will be done on earth as in heaven", like He told us to pray for?

Whatever it is, I just don't find too many Christians who seem to understand that His Kingdom is indeed in our midst. They don't seem to understand that it is there and under the command of the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OR LORDS to help us on that day called, Today!

What are we preaching when we preach the Kingdom of God in our Christian churches???

And can we preach about the King and His Kingdom if we don't actually seek and hear from the King and His Kingdom?

Romans 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?

Are we who hear from the Lord our God, not tasked with preaching? And that because we hear from the King who is over the Kingdom of God?

And if He came preaching the Kingdom of God, which is His Kingdom, were we not tasked with also preaching/proclaiming that same Kingdom, which includes the King?

Yet if we don't actually believe that who can we preach? "How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed?
And how are we going to believe if we don't hear? "How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard?"
And since Jesus came preaching the Kingdom of God, how are you going to hear from the Kingdom if you have not heard from Him as the Preacher? "And how will they hear without a preacher?"

Even in the Christian church, of thousands, that the Lord asks me to attend, there was a series about the Kingdom of God presented this last summer, and I have to tell you that actually hearing from the King who sends His ministering spirits (angels) to minster to you personally, was not presented in that series! Why???

It was not because they are not praying "Thy Kingdom Come" and not want "His will be done on earth", and not listening to the KIng preaching His Kingdom, is it???

The church is supposed to edify - teach on religious matters - so how are we doing?

 

[rwb]

In the verse, the verb is ἤγγικεν and it means "to draw near." But it's in the perfect tense, which is a completed action.

So... the kingdom of God has finished drawing near. It's here.

Yes, which is why Christ says, His Kingdom is NOT now of this world but is within you. IOW Christ ushered in His Kingdom that is not now physical and shall never be on this earth, because His Kingdom is known and entered when we are born again of His Spirit within us. Christ wants us to understand that His Kingdom is not a physical Kingdom but is a spiritual Kingdom of God.

 

[amadeus]

Mark 1: 14,15 Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,
and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

It seems to me that at church the above is too often interpreted that someday the kingdom of God will come, or that the church is the kingdom of God.

Now that thinking does not make any sense to me, especially because not only to I believe that it is the Lord Himself, even the King of Kings, talks to me everyday. I hear Him, or at least Him who I believe is Him, because of what He tells me and does around me. And one of the things He does is send His angels to minister to me and watch over me. So it is I hear from the Kingdom of God, Of course His Spirit and His angels are not the only spirits around, never-the-less I pray the Lord's prayer each morning and so I request, "Thy Kingdom come", and that seems to happen everyday that I do pray for it to happen.

This is to say that in the morning I wake up and start talking to my Lord. And shortly afterwards I wind up in my favorite chair and pray the Lord prayer, with a few other things, and so I ask for "Thy Kingdom come", and while I will talk back and forth with the Lord about a dozen times a day, I will also wind up working with and talking with angels that He sends. It is not that I don't have to also battle with the dark spiritual forces of this world, but rather that I have help in those battles. The things is: I can hear with my spiritual ears and have come to understand that there is a spiritual realm around us, and that has meant that the Kingdom of God is at hand. It turns out also that there are more with us than against us, just like it is written.

Yet most of the time if I talk about it, even at church or on this forum, it seems like I am dealing with people who don't have a clue about this!!

So I think it needs to be discussed, right here on this forum with people who claim to be Christians following the King of Kings and Lord or Lords!

Do you or do you not see angels descending and ascending on Him everyday?

So is the Kingdom of heaven at hand now, that we have access to it now - or do you think that it is something that will come to earth later, and why do you think that?

The access time is right now. Each day and each moment we are able to touch God as He touches us. What a mighty God we serve!For many years now I have also prayed the Lord's prayer each and every morning. No breaks or vacations from God.

 

[Karl Peters]

The access time is right now. Each day and each moment we are able to touch God as He touches us. What a mighty God we serve!For many years now I have also prayed the Lord's prayer each and every morning. No breaks or vacations from God.

Yes- This is soooo important to understand - and it seems that we don't always get this message across like we should. It is good to know that some understand.

 

[Taken]

Does the Kingdom of God being at hand mean it will come or that it has come?


Will come? Yes.
Has come? Yes

Consider What IS Gods Kingdom.

A place? Yes.
Heaven? Yes.
Earth? No.
Will come to Earth? Yes.
Has come to Hearts of men On Earth? Yes
Will come to Hearts of men On Earth? Yes

Is at Hand? …. (Relatively) soon? Yes
Yesterday…for some? Yes
Today…for some? Yes
Tomorrow…for some? Yes
Moment Unknown ….for many? Yes

Gods Kingdom IS where God IS.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

John 17:11 “I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are."

I believe the kingdom of God is all that exists as Sovereign God's creation.
The kingdom of Heaven is his abode and is what Immanuel referred to in his prayer invocation.

"Our Father which art in Heaven hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven."

 

[Karl Peters]

Does the Kingdom of God being at hand mean it will come or that it has come?


Will come? Yes.
Has come? Yes

Consider What IS Gods Kingdom.

A place? Yes.
Heaven? Yes.
Earth? No.
Will come to Earth? Yes.
Has come to Hearts of men On Earth? Yes
Will come to Hearts of men On Earth? Yes

Is at Hand? …. (Relatively) soon? Yes
Yesterday…for some? Yes
Today…for some? Yes
Tomorrow…for some? Yes
Moment Unknown ….for many? Yes

Gods Kingdom IS where God IS.

Glory to God,
Taken

I like the above post

And what I like most about it is:

Gods Kingdom IS where God IS.

So where is God, according to our belief?

Is God omni-present?
Is the Word of God found near us, even in our mouth and heart?
Did He say that He would never leave us?

To follow in line with the above post - I'd have to say "Yes"

 

[Karl Peters]

John 17:11 “I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are."

I believe the kingdom of God is all that exists as Sovereign God's creation.
The kingdom of Heaven is his abode and is what Immanuel referred to in his prayer invocation.

"Our Father which art in Heaven hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven."

Now I like the verses!

Yet if Jesus says "I am no longer in the world" He is not lying is He? And He is the King over the Kingdom of God, right?
And Jesus told Pilate that His Kingdom was not of this realm.

Now all things were created through Him, according to the Scriptures, and that would include this world, but again Jesus Himself said that His kingdom is not of this world / realm!!

Jn 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”

So while the Lord our God created this world, this physical realm we live in, that does not mean it is His kingdom! It does not mean that He rules in this world/realm!!!

Why do we have all these wars and fighting going on in this world, if He was indeed ruling over it?

Still, He gave us an option to choose - to choose between right and wrong, and between good and evil, and between Jesus Christ and the prince of the air of this world. This is really what this thread is about!! If the Kingdom of God is in our midst, like in another realm which is in our midst, like in the heavenly/spiritual realm, we can choose to be under the rule of the KING OF KINGS or that evil prince called Satan.

But if we don't realize that the King of heaven and His Kingdom, is not of this realm, but is in our midst, then how are we going to choose Him and understand that only God is good?

We can choose to seek Jesus Christ and listen and obey Him or not. But this world has chosen not to listen to Him! They are not ruled by Him. They were given a choice and chose to not be ruled by Him!! So they are not part of His Kingdom, because they are not being ruled by Him!! And we live in a place, this physical world, where they are not ruled by THE LORD! You can be in this world, yet still be ruled by Him, if you choose to seek Him and listen to Him. Yet when He was on earth, all on earth chose to not listen to Him. They all fell away!! So He wound up on the cross!!

Let me just point out something, which is and was missed!!

Did not Jesus tell His disciples that He gave them authority, even about loosing things (His army) in heaven???

Mat 18:18 “Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

He told His disciples that, but did they loose His kingdom, His angels in heaven, at that time or did they not fall away from Him????

Remember He said that He could call on angels, but He wouldn't do it even to save Himself. He gave His disciples that authority, didn't He?
They could have done that, except they fell away from Him!! They could have called on leagions of angels, and loosed them on earth, but they didn't!! They fell asleep! They fell away!!

And consider that they were people, just like us!! So what do we do??? Do we seek the Kingdom of God? Do we know that the Kingdom of God is a Kingdom of power? Do we even pray thy Kingdom come and listen to the King and those angels He sends to minister to those who will inherit salvation?

A king's kingdom is the place where the king rules. So the Kingdom of God is the place where the Lord our God rules. So we are off that Kingdom if and only if we are under the rule of the King, just like the angels in heaven that serve Him, right?

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

Now I like the verses!

Yet if Jesus says "I am no longer in the world" He is not lying is He? And He is the King over the Kingdom of God, right?
And Jesus told Pilate that His Kingdom was not of this realm.

Now all things were created through Him, according to the Scriptures, and that would include this world, but again Jesus Himself said that His kingdom is not of this world / realm!!

Jn 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”

So while the Lord our God created this world, this physical realm we live in, that does not mean it is His kingdom! It does not mean that He rules in this world/realm!!!

Why do we have all these wars and fighting going on in this world, if He was indeed ruling over it?

Still, He gave us an option to choose - to choose between right and wrong, and between good and evil, and between Jesus Christ and the prince of the air of this world. This is really what this thread is about!! If the Kingdom of God is in our midst, like in another realm which is in our midst, like in the heavenly/spiritual realm, we can choose to be under the rule of the KING OF KINGS or that evil prince called Satan.

But if we don't realize that the King of heaven and His Kingdom, is not of this realm, but is in our midst, then how are we going to choose Him and understand that only God is good?

We can choose to seek Jesus Christ and listen and obey Him or not. But this world has chosen not to listen to Him! They are not ruled by Him. They were given a choice and chose to not be ruled by Him!! So they are not part of His Kingdom, because they are not being ruled by Him!! And we live in a place, this physical world, where they are not ruled by THE LORD! You can be in this world, yet still be ruled by Him, if you choose to seek Him and listen to Him. Yet when He was on earth, all on earth chose to not listen to Him. They all fell away!! So He wound up on the cross!!

Let me just point out something, which is and was missed!!

Did not Jesus tell His disciples that He gave them authority, even about loosing things (His army) in heaven???

Mat 18:18 “Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

He told His disciples that, but did they loose His kingdom, His angels in heaven, at that time or did they not fall away from Him????

Remember He said that He could call on angels, but He wouldn't do it even to save Himself. He gave His disciples that authority, didn't He?
They could have done that, except they fell away from Him!! They could have called on leagions of angels, and loosed them on earth, but they didn't!! They fell asleep! They fell away!!

And consider that they were people, just like us!! So what do we do??? Do we seek the Kingdom of God? Do we know that the Kingdom of God is a Kingdom of power? Do we even pray thy Kingdom come and listen to the King and those angels He sends to minister to those who will inherit salvation?

A king's kingdom is the place where the king rules. So the Kingdom of God is the place where the Lord our God rules. So we are off that Kingdom if and only if we are under the rule of the King, just like the angels in heaven that serve Him, right?

1 Corinthians 15:24-25
Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

 

[Karl Peters]

1 Corinthians 15:24-25
Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

Again - I like the verses in the Bible, but verses without understanding does not help a person!!!!

The Lord our God helps people!!!!

And it is Him, by speaking to us personally, who gives us understanding!! This is why we find a verse that reads:

Prov 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.

So the very wise king Solomon understood that he got his wisdom from hearing the LORD personally!!

Do we understand that; if we quote a verse but have not the understanding of it?

The understanding of Prov 2:6 is that we must personally listen to the LORD - that person who is to rule over us, but do we?

If we then look at:

1 Corinthians 15:24-25
Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

We then find that there are those at this time who do not personally listen to the LORD, so that the Lord does not tule and exercise His rightful authority and power in their lives. Indeed they do not serve Him as their King and Lord, but serve others whether they know it or not. They are not aware of the battle that goes on in them:

Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against ]flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

And if not aware of the battle, then are we not also unaware of those, the army of God, who serve the LORD and are there to help us?

2 Kings 6:16,17 So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.”
Then Elisha prayed and said, “O LORD, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” And the LORD opened the servant’s eyes and he saw; and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.

So a believer, even a servant of the Word of God (Jesus Christ the Lord our God) should be aware of what is really going on around them in the heavenlies!!!

We are not just quoters of verses, are we? Are we not to be active participants of the Kingdom of the Lord our God, Jesus Chrsit?

Rev 22:28,29 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things.
But he *said to me, “Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who [fn]heed the words of this book. Worship God.”

And is the above passage not amazing??? - in that John at that time had long before actually walked with Jesus Christ, the King, while He was on earth in the flesh. And John had at that time been a servant of the Lord for many years, and still had a lesson to learn - that being that he had access to the Kingdom of God and the angels that served the Lord, but still failed to realize that they, the angels of heaven, were indeed fellow servants under the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

Could it have been that even John had not prayed "Thy Kingdom Come", as Jesus had told Him, with as much dedication, expectation, and faith as he could have? I know I could stand more dedication, expectations, and faith in seeking the Kingdom of God? Yes, most every morning I pray the Lord's prayer. And most days I have angels sent to serve with me, and even help me. And I confess that the Lord has told me plainly and clearly that He wants me working with His angels when He sends them - but like I too often get side tracked during my busy days, and fail to seek the Lord and listen to Him - I too also get side tracked during my busy days and fail to seek not only the King but His Kingdom also and wind up entertaining angles without knowing it!!

Still, I know that is how I am, but too many in the church do not even seem to know that is the case with them - or so it seems from the conversations I have with other Christians.

My wife had been a Christian long before me. And she had been hearing a bit here and there from the Lord fairly regular, long before I knew her. And she had spent many years at Christian churches in various towns she had lived. So we could talk about our Lord Jesus Christ. From talking to her I know that she knew the Lord, and heard from Him. Yet when I went to talk to her about angels and them ministering to us, she had almost no experience. She did not seek the Kingdom of God, but only the King. She did not pray, "Thy Kingdom come" and if she did at some point she did not expect it to come up on her. She did not expect that the Spirit of God could connect you to the Kingdom of God.

Rev 4:1,2 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.”
Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and One sitting on the throne.

She did not know of the angels ascending and descending on the Lord.

Jn 1:51 And He *said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see the heavens opened and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”

And as mentioned and shown, even John who apparently wrote the book of John and so was aware of the above verse that he wrote, still was unaware of the Kingdom of God years later, as you would expect, as shown by the fact that he was thinking that he needed to bow down to an angel and failed to realize that as powerful as they are, they are still fellow servants! Even failing to realize that they have been sent to minister to us!

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?

So should we not have a better understanding of a verse like say:

1 Corinthians 15:24-25
Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

The verse means that we are not getting the understanding we should be getting because we are not seeking the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS and His Kingdom like we should!!!

So quote the verses, but the church is also tasked with edification (teaching in religious matters), so we ourselves need to be actively seeking the King and His Kingdom if we are going to teach about it, right?

Which is to say; We are not entertaining angels without know it are we? As for me, I know I often entertain angels without knowing it, because I sometime do seek the Kingdom, and pay attention. Not enough, but daily I pray "Thy Kingdom come", and so daily I usually wind up talking to angels, those fellow servants of ours.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

Again - I like the verses in the Bible, but verses without understanding does not help a person!!!!

The Lord our God helps people!!!!

And it is Him, by speaking to us personally, who gives us understanding!! This is why we find a verse that reads:

Prov 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.

So the very wise king Solomon understood that he got his wisdom from hearing the LORD personally!!

Do we understand that; if we quote a verse but have not the understanding of it?

The understanding of Prov 2:6 is that we must personally listen to the LORD - that person who is to rule over us, but do we?

If we then look at:

1 Corinthians 15:24-25
Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

We then find that there are those at this time who do not personally listen to the LORD, so that the Lord does not tule and exercise His rightful authority and power in their lives. Indeed they do not serve Him as their King and Lord, but serve others whether they know it or not. They are not aware of the battle that goes on in them:

Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against ]flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

And if not aware of the battle, then are we not also unaware of those, the army of God, who serve the LORD and are there to help us?

2 Kings 6:16,17 So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.”
Then Elisha prayed and said, “O LORD, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” And the LORD opened the servant’s eyes and he saw; and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.

So a believer, even a servant of the Word of God (Jesus Christ the Lord our God) should be aware of what is really going on around them in the heavenlies!!!

We are not just quoters of verses, are we? Are we not to be active participants of the Kingdom of the Lord our God, Jesus Chrsit?

Rev 22:28,29 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things.
But he *said to me, “Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who [fn]heed the words of this book. Worship God.”

And is the above passage not amazing??? - in that John at that time had long before actually walked with Jesus Christ, the King, while He was on earth in the flesh. And John had at that time been a servant of the Lord for many years, and still had a lesson to learn - that being that he had access to the Kingdom of God and the angels that served the Lord, but still failed to realize that they, the angels of heaven, were indeed fellow servants under the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

Could it have been that even John had not prayed "Thy Kingdom Come", as Jesus had told Him, with as much dedication, expectation, and faith as he could have? I know I could stand more dedication, expectations, and faith in seeking the Kingdom of God? Yes, most every morning I pray the Lord's prayer. And most days I have angels sent to serve with me, and even help me. And I confess that the Lord has told me plainly and clearly that He wants me working with His angels when He sends them - but like I too often get side tracked during my busy days, and fail to seek the Lord and listen to Him - I too also get side tracked during my busy days and fail to seek not only the King but His Kingdom also and wind up entertaining angles without knowing it!!

Still, I know that is how I am, but too many in the church do not even seem to know that is the case with them - or so it seems from the conversations I have with other Christians.

My wife had been a Christian long before me. And she had been hearing a bit here and there from the Lord fairly regular, long before I knew her. And she had spent many years at Christian churches in various towns she had lived. So we could talk about our Lord Jesus Christ. From talking to her I know that she knew the Lord, and heard from Him. Yet when I went to talk to her about angels and them ministering to us, she had almost no experience. She did not seek the Kingdom of God, but only the King. She did not pray, "Thy Kingdom come" and if she did at some point she did not expect it to come up on her. She did not expect that the Spirit of God could connect you to the Kingdom of God.

Rev 4:1,2 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.”
Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and One sitting on the throne.

She did not know of the angels ascending and descending on the Lord.

Jn 1:51 And He *said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see the heavens opened and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”

And as mentioned and shown, even John who apparently wrote the book of John and so was aware of the above verse that he wrote, still was unaware of the Kingdom of God years later, as you would expect, as shown by the fact that he was thinking that he needed to bow down to an angel and failed to realize that as powerful as they are, they are still fellow servants! Even failing to realize that they have been sent to minister to us!

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?

So should we not have a better understanding of a verse like say:

1 Corinthians 15:24-25
Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

The verse means that we are not getting the understanding we should be getting because we are not seeking the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS and His Kingdom like we should!!!

So quote the verses, but the church is also tasked with edification (teaching in religious matters), so we ourselves need to be actively seeking the King and His Kingdom if we are going to teach about it, right?

Which is to say; We are not entertaining angels without know it are we? As for me, I know I often entertain angels without knowing it, because I sometime do seek the Kingdom, and pay attention. Not enough, but daily I pray "Thy Kingdom come", and so daily I usually wind up talking to angels, those fellow servants of ours.

I think if you read all of 1Corinthians 15, rather than launch a mistaken mistaken creatiticism you'll understand the full message.

 

[Karl Peters]

I think if you read all of 1Corinthians 15, rather than launch a mistaken mistaken creatiticism you'll understand the full message.

Again - I like the verses in the Bible, but verses without understanding does not help a person!!!!

The Lord our God helps people!!!!

And it is Him, by speaking to us personally, who gives us understanding!! This is why we find a verse that reads:

Prov 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.

Talking with someone who does not realize that the Kingdom of God is in our midst now, is like the above. They think the verse and verses are what given you understanding, as opposed to actually seeking the voice of the Lord. Now to them I can point that out in the Bible, but since it is not the Bible but the Lord that gives you understanding and that from His mouth, they won't get understanding because they don't seek Him and listen to Him!

Therefore they can read the whole chapter and even the whole Bible, but they will not get understanding, because the Bible does not give you understanding. It might give you the wisdom to seek Jesus Christ by faith, but reading even the whole Bible does not means you actually got that wisdom.

1 Tim 6:3 If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness,

The sacred writings do not preach the sacred writings! They tell you about the King, Jesus Christ. And if the King then also the Kingdom of God, for He is the Lord our God and was placed on the throne of God by His Father. And so the command to "Hear, O Israel" went out to His people, a people who said 'Let not God speak to us'. And we can find this written about through out the Scriptures in one way or another.

So what did we read in the Bible, if not that Jesus Christ, the King is available to us? And if the King is available to us, then His Kingdom also, but did we "Hear, O Israel", or do we just pretend to?

So if I proclaim the King and thus His Kingdom also, will I come across those who know about it or those who pretend. Indeed, to whom should the King and Kingdom be proclaim?

To whom did Jesus say:

Jn 5: 39, 40 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

It was not to people who had the understanding that understanding comes from the mouth of Wisdom, was it? For He told them:

Jn 5: 38 “You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent.

They had the Scriptures, they search the Scriptures, pointed to the Scriptures, and proclaim/preach the Scriptures, but they did not seek Him and go to Him for understanding! So if you don't go to the King, what part of His Kingdom do you have? Is He not the door into that Kingdom?

So they can read, even the whole chapter, 1 Cor 15, but will they get understanding, since that come from the voice of Wisdom and not their leaning on their own understanding?

They can read: Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, (1 Cor 15:1-3) - but can they understand it?

Wisdom (the Holy Spirit) once told me, "Karl, we don't use the Lord to preach the Scriptures, we use the Scriptures to preach the Lord!"

Therefore a person preaching the Scriptures point to the Scriptures, but do not actually use the Scriptures to point people to the Lord who sends His Holy Spirit to bring you His words.

So they can post a verse, but can they post a testimony?

So they will tell you to read the Scriptures and that gives you understanding, but they can not read them with understanding. Therefore they point you to something like:

1 Cor 15: 4 - 6 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; ....

but did He appear to them and speak to them? If they are proclaiming the Scriptures instead of proclaiming the King and His Kingdom, then what happens after He appeared to them, that they are now pointing to the Scriptures instead of using the Scriptures to point to the King with the Kingdom of God?

Did they not hear that the Word of God was near them and the Kingdom of God in their midst?

When I go to the Christian church the Lord has me going to, I find them. They seem to be more abundant than those who really know Him. They might quote a Scripture, but to Him they do not point to.

If I try and talk to them about the King whom I know, or the Kingdom who He has and asks to talk to me, they cannot understand. At best I get a blank look from them, but often the first thing they say comes from their fear of the demons instead from their fear of God.

If I explain about how there is more with us that against us, they don't really seem to have a grasp on that subject. Perhaps they can point to some Scripture about an angel like Michael or Gabriel, but they don't seem to know about the great numbers that are actually their to be sent to us. If I tell them about Josh, who is an angel of humor that the Lord has working with me at times, or Allafraid who like to point to how we are all afraid to really believe where we stand as children of the Most High, so we often go before Him - which is kind of like who Esther had to overcome a fear to go before the king. So can you even talk to them about the reality of how the names of angels tend to describe their personality. Does not Gabriel like to say that God is strong?

So it is that the Kingdom of God testify about the King, Jesus Christ. Isaac was the promised son, and Isaac means laughter or humor. And We are children of God, are we not? Do we seek Him as our Father? Is it not written that the child born to us will be called Father, and even mighty God or God is strong? So do we really know about these angels that He sends to minister to us and watch over us, or are we just pretending?

 

[Ritajanice]

Mark 1: 14,15 Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,
and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

It seems to me that at church the above is too often interpreted that someday the kingdom of God will come, or that the church is the kingdom of God.

Now that thinking does not make any sense to me, especially because not only to I believe that it is the Lord Himself, even the King of Kings, talks to me everyday. I hear Him, or at least Him who I believe is Him, because of what He tells me and does around me. And one of the things He does is send His angels to minister to me and watch over me. So it is I hear from the Kingdom of God, Of course His Spirit and His angels are not the only spirits around, never-the-less I pray the Lord's prayer each morning and so I request, "Thy Kingdom come", and that seems to happen everyday that I do pray for it to happen.

This is to say that in the morning I wake up and start talking to my Lord. And shortly afterwards I wind up in my favorite chair and pray the Lord prayer, with a few other things, and so I ask for "Thy Kingdom come", and while I will talk back and forth with the Lord about a dozen times a day, I will also wind up working with and talking with angels that He sends. It is not that I don't have to also battle with the dark spiritual forces of this world, but rather that I have help in those battles. The things is: I can hear with my spiritual ears and have come to understand that there is a spiritual realm around us, and that has meant that the Kingdom of God is at hand. It turns out also that there are more with us than against us, just like it is written.

Yet most of the time if I talk about it, even at church or on this forum, it seems like I am dealing with people who don't have a clue about this!!

So I think it needs to be discussed, right here on this forum with people who claim to be Christians following the King of Kings and Lord or Lords!

Do you or do you not see angels descending and ascending on Him everyday?

So is the Kingdom of heaven at hand now, that we have access to it now - or do you think that it is something that will come to earth later, and why do you think that?

The Kingdom of God...are for those who are Born Again.....The Holy Spirit is in the Kingdom of God...therefore so is a Born Again....why..because Spirit gives birth to spirit?

The Holy Spirit lives in our heart/ spirit...we have those spiritual eyes and ears...a gift from God via his Spirit?

We are in His Kingdom right now....spiritual Kingdom....that’s if you are Born Again....by the will of God.

Through the testifying with our spirit that we are children of God....only the Holy Spirit can testify with our spirit.that we are Gods children....Spirit gives birth to spirit.

​

◄ John 3 ►

​

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Jesus and Nicodemus (Genesis 22:1–10; Romans 5:6–11) 1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews.2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs You are doing if God were not with him.” 3Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.a” 4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time to be born?” 5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. 7Do not be amazed that I said, ‘Youb must be born again.’ 8The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” 9“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked. 10“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and you do not understand these things?11Truly, truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, and yet you people do not accept our testimony. 12If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things? 13No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.c 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.d 16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and onlye Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God.”f John’s Testimony about Jesus 22After this, Jesus and His disciples went into the Judean countryside, where He spent some time with them and baptized. 23Now John was also baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because the water was plentiful there, and people kept coming to be baptized. 24(For John had not yet been thrown into prison.) 25Then a dispute arose between John’s disciples and a certain Jewg over the issue of ceremonial washing. 26So John’s disciples came to him and said, “Look, Rabbi, the One who was with you beyond the Jordan, the One you testified about—He is baptizing, and everyone is going to Him.” 27John replied, “A man can receive only what is given him from heaven. 28You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Christ, but am sent ahead of Him.’29The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom stands and listens for him, and is overjoyed to hear the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. 30He must increase; I must decrease. 31The One who comes from above is above all. The one who is from the earth belongs to the earth and speaks as one from the earth. The One who comes from heaven is above all.h 32He testifies to what He has seen and heard, yet no one accepts His testimony. 33Whoever accepts His testimony has certified that God is truthful. 34For the One whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. 35The Father loves the Son and has placed all things in His hands. 36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.”i

 

[Ritajanice]

Talking with someone who does not realize that the Kingdom of God is in our midst now, is like the above. They think the verse and verses are what given you understanding, as opposed to actually seeking the voice of the Lord. Now to them I can point that out in the Bible, but since it is not the Bible but the Lord that gives you understanding and that from His mouth, they won't get understanding because they don't seek Him and listen to Him!

And tell us....how does the Lord give us understanding of his word?

What do you need in order to listen to God?

 

[Ritajanice]

And it is Him, by speaking to us personally,

Are you saying “ GOD” speaks to you personally?

By what means does he use to speak directly to you?

 

[Karl Peters]

Are you saying “ GOD” speaks to you personally?

By what means does he use to speak directly to you?

Did you not even read the Bible at all? Why are you even posting on a Christian forum?

There is good news for those you do not know the Lord our God Jesus Christ!!!!

And the good news is that because of His forgiveness, His mercy, and Grace we can personally get to know Him!! Indeed "ANYONE" CAN HEAR FROM HIM!!! This is explained in the Bible. Indeed, it is the important message that the Bible has, and which we who know Him have also!! WE - YOU - AND ANYONE WHO CHOOSES TO REPENT OF THEIR WAYS AND TURN TO THE LORD AND LISTEN TO HIM FOR HIS WAYS.

Rev 3:19,20 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

That is the GOOD NEWS - that you personally can hear the voice of the Lord!! In fact it turns out the He the KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS is just standing there talking to you so that if you decide to listen to Him and open up to Him and seek what He has to say to you!!

But since you asked, let me tell you how it works. God is spirit and so He sends His Holy Spirit to speak to your spirit. So you pick up the word of God we are preaching in you mouth and in your heart! And since it is the word of God we are preaching, we should be hearing Him in words - often call that small voice in the church now-a-days.

Rom 10:8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

And so it is written that His sheep hear His voice:

And it is that very thing that gives you life!!

Jn 6:63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

Do you see it in what's written above? The words of His which come through His Holy Spirit is what gives us life!!!

So if we have "Christians" around our church who do not hear from Him personally, they need to!! And we do have them coming to our churches, and it doesn't seem like we have made this clear to them, and there will be many how say to our Lord on that day that they did things in His name only to be told by Him that He never knew them!! And we, those who hear His voice, are told to preach the Word of God, meaning that the word of God is near us, like explained above.

So why are you asking: By what means does he use to speak directly to you?

Was this not explained to you at your church?
Do you not hear from Him?
Do you not try hearing Him by faith, vis the Holy Spirit?

Of maybe I can just combine those question by pointing to this scripture:

Gal 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of [the Law, or by hearing with faith?

As for me - I receive the Spirit by hearing with faith!!
And that hearing with my spiritual ears has, like John and others in the Bible, to be hooked up with the King and His Kingdom!

Rev 4: 1,2 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.”
Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and One sitting on the throne.