Does the Wicked Burn Forever?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

tomwebster

New Member
Dec 11, 2006
2,041
107
0
76
(precepts;65975)
Does the wicked burn forever? ...
No, the wicked do not burn forever?This is what will happen to non-believers at the end. They do not spend eternity in fire and brimstone. They go up in smoke forever and ever, just like when a drip of fat hits burning char-coal, they go up in smoke and the smoke goes up forever (the fat ceases to exist, it's blotted out). They are turned to ashes. Have you ever burned the trash or some leaves, what is left when you are done, ashes. They will never be leaves again, the leaves cease to exist. Psa 37:1 Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity. Psa 37:2 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb. Psa 37:3 Trust in the LORD, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed. Psa 37:4 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart. Psa 37:5 Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass. Psa 37:6 And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday. Psa 37:7 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass. Psa 37:8 Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil. Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. Psa 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. Psa 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace. Psa 37:12 The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth. Psa 37:13 The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming. Psa 37:14 The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation. Psa 37:15 Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken. Psa 37:16 A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked. Psa 37:17 For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the LORD upholdeth the righteous. Psa 37:18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever. Psa 37:19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied. Psa 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume(H3615); into smoke shall they consume away(H3615) . H3615כּלהkâlâhkaw-law'A primitive root; to end, whether intransitively (to cease, be finished, perish) or transitively (to complete, prepare, consume): - accomplish, cease, consume (away), determine, destroy (utterly), be (when . . . were) done, (be an) end (of), expire, (cause to) fail, faint, finish, fulfil, X fully, X have, leave (off), long, bring to pass, wholly reap, make clean riddance, spend, quite take away, waste.THEY ARE BLOTTED OUTPsa 37:21 The wicked borroweth, and payeth not again: but the righteous sheweth mercy, and giveth. Psa 37:22 For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off. Psa 37:23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way. Psa 37:24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand. Psa 37:25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread. Psa 37:26 He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed. Psa 37:27 Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore. Psa 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. Psa 37:29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever. Psa 37:30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment. Psa 37:31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide. Psa 37:32 The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him. Psa 37:33 The LORD will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged. Psa 37:34 Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it. Psa 37:35 I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree. Psa 37:36 Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found. Psa 37:37 Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace. Psa 37:38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off. Psa 37:39 But the salvation of the righteous is of the LORD: he is their strength in the time of trouble. Psa 37:40 And the LORD shall help them, and deliver them: he shall deliver them from the wicked, and save them, because they trust in him. Ps. 37 is an Acrostic Psalm, having four lines assigned to each successive letter of the alphabet, except the fourth (vs 7), the eleventh (v 20), the nineteenth (v 34), which each have three lines assigned to them. These three verses occure in perfect order. The seventh verse is the seventh letter from the beginning; the thirty-fourth verse is the senenth from the end; while the middle verse (v 20) marks the end of the first half with the first of the two middle letters.In this Psalm the series is perfect and complete. Every letter has two verses of two lines each, except three : vv. 7 (d, Daleth = D), 20 (k, Kaph = K), and 34 (q, Koph = K). These three verses tell us what happens to evil people.This is Satan's fate at the END, he will be devoured, turned to ashes. Just like the fat of the sacrificial lamb in Ps 37:20 Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
 

bullfighter

New Member
Jan 21, 2008
269
0
0
64
(tomwebster;66074)
No, the wicked do not burn forever?This is what will happen to non-believers at the end. They do not spend eternity in fire and brimstone. They go up in smoke forever and ever, just like when a drip of fat hits burning char-coal, they go up in smoke and the smoke goes up forever (the fat ceases to exist, it's blotted out). They are turned to ashes. Have you ever burned the trash or some leaves, what is left when you are done, ashes. They will never be leaves again, the leaves cease to exist. Psa 37:1 Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity. Psa 37:2 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb. Psa 37:3 Trust in the LORD, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed. Psa 37:4 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart. Psa 37:5 Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass. Psa 37:6 And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday. Psa 37:7 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass. Psa 37:8 Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil. Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. Psa 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. Psa 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace. Psa 37:12 The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth. Psa 37:13 The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming. Psa 37:14 The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation. Psa 37:15 Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken. Psa 37:16 A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked. Psa 37:17 For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the LORD upholdeth the righteous. Psa 37:18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever. Psa 37:19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied. Psa 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume(H3615); into smoke shall they consume away(H3615) . H3615כּלהkâlâhkaw-law'A primitive root; to end, whether intransitively (to cease, be finished, perish) or transitively (to complete, prepare, consume): - accomplish, cease, consume (away), determine, destroy (utterly), be (when . . . were) done, (be an) end (of), expire, (cause to) fail, faint, finish, fulfil, X fully, X have, leave (off), long, bring to pass, wholly reap, make clean riddance, spend, quite take away, waste.THEY ARE BLOTTED OUTPsa 37:21 The wicked borroweth, and payeth not again: but the righteous sheweth mercy, and giveth. Psa 37:22 For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off. Psa 37:23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way. Psa 37:24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand. Psa 37:25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread. Psa 37:26 He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed. Psa 37:27 Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore. Psa 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. Psa 37:29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever. Psa 37:30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment. Psa 37:31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide. Psa 37:32 The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him. Psa 37:33 The LORD will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged. Psa 37:34 Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it. Psa 37:35 I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree. Psa 37:36 Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found. Psa 37:37 Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace. Psa 37:38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off. Psa 37:39 But the salvation of the righteous is of the LORD: he is their strength in the time of trouble. Psa 37:40 And the LORD shall help them, and deliver them: he shall deliver them from the wicked, and save them, because they trust in him. Ps. 37 is an Acrostic Psalm, having four lines assigned to each successive letter of the alphabet, except the fourth (vs 7), the eleventh (v 20), the nineteenth (v 34), which each have three lines assigned to them. These three verses occure in perfect order. The seventh verse is the seventh letter from the beginning; the thirty-fourth verse is the senenth from the end; while the middle verse (v 20) marks the end of the first half with the first of the two middle letters.In this Psalm the series is perfect and complete. Every letter has two verses of two lines each, except three : vv. 7 (d, Daleth = D), 20 (k, Kaph = K), and 34 (q, Koph = K). These three verses tell us what happens to evil people.This is Satan's fate at the END, he will be devoured, turned to ashes. Just like the fat of the sacrificial lamb in Ps 37:20 Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
we are in for some pretty wild and crasy things.some people in for some pretty hot stuff.what ever the case .this will be the best of all things and times to this moment.from there it is only better and good.....................
 

logabe

Active Member
Aug 28, 2008
880
47
28
66
Well...where do we start. I think we should start with the rich man and Lazuras.The idea that Hades is a place of torture is part of the Greek mythology. The only justification that Christian teachers have in adopting their torture theory has been the parable of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16:19-31). To hold this theory, such teachers have had to literalize this parable, instead of seeing it in the context of Jesus' other Kingdom parables. Jesus told many parables to illustrate how the Kingdom of God would be taken from the Jews and given to another (Matt. 21:43).In this case, the rich man was dressed in purple and fine linen like the temple priests who ruled the people. So the rich man is identified with rulers of the Judean nation. Another identifying mark for the rich man was that he had five brothers (Luke 16:28). The patriarch Judah had five brothers born in Gen. 29 and 30. They are Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulon.The rich man feasted every day (on the Word).Lazarus, on the other hand, first represents the lost house of Israel, which, at that time, was “laid [ballo, to cast down] at his gate.” The Greek word, ballo, is usually translated “cast” in the New Testament. For example, in Matt. 3:10, a tree that does not bear good fruit is “cast” into the fire. In Matt. 7:6, we are told not to “cast” our pearls before swine. The word picture does not convey a man lovingly and carefully laying pearls in front of swine. Neither does it convey the idea of Lazarus being carefully laid at the gate of the rich man. It portrays Lazarus as being cast down.Lazarus represents the house of Israel that had been cast down and cast out of the land from 745-721 B.C. We read of this in 2 Kings 17:20,20 And the Lord rejected all the descendants of Israel and afflicted them and gave them into the hand of plunderers, until He had cast them out of His sight.Thus, Lazarus represents the house of Israel that had been cast out many centuries before the time of Christ. He was the beggar at the gate, who could only receive a few crumbs from the rich man's table, for they were largely cut off from the Word of God at that time.Logabe
 

logabe

Active Member
Aug 28, 2008
880
47
28
66
Let's continiue on and understand some morerevelation that God has given us in His Wordabout this particular parable.The parable portrays both Lazarus and the rich man dying. Since these men represent Israel and Judah, the parable shows the ultimate fate of each nation after these nations were destroyed. The house of Israel, like Lazarus, would be restored to Abraham's bosom (the promise of God, the New Covenant). The majority portion of the house of Judah, which rejected Jesus, would go into a time of “torment,” which they themselves affirm continuously.The rich man wanted someone to go to his living brethren and warn them. However, we read in Luke 16:31,31 But he said to him, If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead.Elsewhere, in John 5:46, 47, Jesus said to the unbelieving Jews who opposed Him,46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote of Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?And indeed, this came to pass. When Jesus rose from the dead, the temple priests knew the truth but still did not believe. In fact, they are responsible for blinding the eyes of the rest of the Judeans, most of whom would have believed in Christ if their leaders had not deceived them. Matt. 28:11-15 says,11 Now while they were on their way, behold, some of the guard came into the city and reported to the chief priests all that had happened. 12 And when they had assembled with the elders and counseled together, they gave a large sum of money to the soldiers, 13 and said, You are to say, His disciples came by night and stole Him away while we were asleep. 14 And if this should come to the governor's ears, we will win him over and keep you out of trouble. 15 And they took the money and did as they had been instructed; and this story was widely spread among the Jews, and is to this day.The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is just one of many parables of the kingdom that tell essentially the same story but in different ways. To do a complete study of Jesus' parables is not possible in this short post, but it is most appropriate to look at the others that have led to the climactic parable of the rich man and Lazarus. These provide us with a context by which we can be sure of our interpretation.Logabe
 

logabe

Active Member
Aug 28, 2008
880
47
28
66
The series of parables leading up to the rich man and Lazarus really begins in Luke 15:3-7. It is the parable of the lost sheep of the house of Israel.3 And He told them this parable, saying, 4 What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open pasture, and go after the one which is lost, until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost! 7 I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.In Ezekiel 34 the prophet prophesied against “the shepherds of Israel,” that is, the priests and civil leaders, who had fleeced the sheep but did not care for them responsibly. Part of the condemnation was that they had not “sought for the lost” (34:4). The divine law says in Deuteronomy 22:1, 2,1 You shall not see your countryman's ox or his sheep straying away, and pay no attention to them; you shall certainly bring them back to your countryman. 2 And if your countryman is not near you, or if you do not know him, then you shall bring it home to your house, and it shall remain with you until your countryman looks for it; then you shall restore it to him.Lost sheep were the responsibility of all shepherds. Shepherds were not to ignore lost sheep. Applied to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, it has always been the responsibility of the Shepherds to find God's lost sheep. It is written in the divine law. Yet most have been content to turn the other way. Ezekiel says further in 34:6,6 My flock wandered through all the mountains and on every high hill, and My flock was scattered over all the surface of the earth; and there was no one to search or seek for them. 11 . . . Behold I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd cares for his herd in the day when he is among his scattered sheep, so I will care for My sheep and will deliver them from all the places to which they were scattered on a cloudy and gloomy day.This is the source material for Jesus' parable of the lost sheep. He came as the great Shepherd (Heb. 13:20), the Good Shepherd (John 10:11), and the Chief Shepherd (1 Peter 5:4). He came to find His lost sheep, but in finding them, He also has brought in other sheep which were not of that fold. That is the subject of other parables such as the one in Matthew 13:44.In Hosea 2:19, 20 the prophet tells us that the divorced house of Israel would be betrothed to Christ once again while they were yet in the wilderness—that is, outside the old land. This, too, is important to understand, in view of the fact that Lazarus was taken to Abraham's bosom—that is, restored to the covenant with Abraham.Logabe
 

jtartar

New Member
Mar 14, 2008
133
0
0
85
Hello, As we can see from Rev 20:14,15 all those who are not in the Book of Life will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. This is no torture or torment, it is death forever, 2Thes 1:6-9. The symbolism about the smoke of their torment going up forever is a symbolof everlasting destruction, for who could be saved from a place that is burning forever?
 

logabe

Active Member
Aug 28, 2008
880
47
28
66
THE PARABLE OF THE LOST COIN.The next parable leading up to the rich man and Lazarus is the parable of the lost coin in Luke 15:8-10. It is said that this was no ordinary coin. But was part of a wedding bracelet that was traditional in those days. If this is true, then there is no doubt that Jesus' biblical source material came from Exodus 19:5, where God said to Israel,5 Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession [“peculiar treasure” in the KJV] among all the peoples,for all the earth is Mine.The prophets speak of Israel as being God's wife, especially in the context of His divorce from her in later years (Jer. 3:8-14; Hosea 2:2). So once again, Christ came to seek out the lost coin, representing the lost house of Israel.Logabe
 

logabe

Active Member
Aug 28, 2008
880
47
28
66
THE PARABLE OF THE PRODICAL (lost son) SON.The prodigal son was the next parable recorded in the last part of Luke 15. The prodigal was the house of Israel (called “My son” in Hosea 11:1), while the older brother with the begrudging attitude was Judah. As long the house of Israel is lost (in the eyes of those who refuse to seek them out) the Jews are more than happy to lay claim to the inheritance of the birthright. But the day will come when Israel will return. This will happen on more than one level. They will “return” in the sense of being found as a people; and they will “return” in the sense of repenting and returning to the Lord. When that day arrives, let us not begrudge them as the elder brother did in the parable.This much is sufficient to see that the parable of Lazarus and the rich man ought not to be taken as a literal historical account of an individual who died and went to hades, but is part of the ongoing teaching that Jesus did through His Kingdom parables. The objection that the story of Lazarus is not specifically labeled a parable is not valid, because Luke 15 and 16 is a series of parables, beginning with Luke 15:3, which says, “And He told them this parable, saying. . ..” From that point on, none of the other parables are individually labeled as parables. But who among us would say that the story of the prodigal son was not a parable, just because it was not specifically labeled as such? We conclude, then, that the parable of the rich man and Lazarus was meant to foretell the condition of “torment” that the Jews would experience in the 1,900 years of exile after the destruction of Jerusalem. Thus, this parable ought not to be used to teach that rich men—or any others—are tormented by a literal fire in Hades after they are dead. We have taken the time to explain this parable in some detail, because it is such a stumbling block to so many people.Logabe
 

logabe

Active Member
Aug 28, 2008
880
47
28
66
Okay, let's talk about how God judges sin and brings forthtrue justice by the "Divine Law". Man punishes; God judges. In our Roman law system, the primary concern is not justice, but deterrence, which they try to accomplish by mandating longer and harsher sentences for crime. Two centuries ago in England it had progressed so far that men were being hanged for stealing a loaf of bread. Punishment is man's way of resolving the crime (sin) problem; justice is secondary. But in God's law the priorities are reversed: justice is primary, and deterrence is secondary.When men punish according to the traditions of men, sinners are either punished too much or too little. God does not over-discipline anyone. The judgment always fits the crime. If a man steals $1000, he must restore precisely double to his victim. Not a penny more without the consent of the sinner; not a penny less without the consent of the victim. Divine justice may not align with man's standard of right and wrong, but I myself will always defend the Word of God wherever the two disagree.Burning people alive in hell is not justice—it is punishment. True justice is never fully accomplished until all the victims of injustice have been recompensed and the sinner restored to grace. This cannot happen in man's prison system, nor could it happen by torturing sinners forever, nor could it even happen by annihilating all sinners in fire. All of these alternative methods represent punishment, not divine justice.Only the justice of the divine law found in the Bible is true justice. Its purpose is not only to repay all victims for their injuries, but is also designed to work toward the sinner's forgiveness and restoration to the congregation (Church).It is true, of course, that the law is weak in some ways. Paul says in Romans 8:3 that the law is “weak through the flesh.” That is, if a man committed murder, the law cannot restore the victim back to life, and so restoration is not possible because of fleshly weakness. If a married woman is raped, the sinner does not have the power to un-rape her. Because of human, fleshly weakness, then, the law is weak. This is why in such cases, the sinner was put to death. Whenever the crime was such that there was no possible way to restore the lawful order, the sinner was to be put to death.Putting the sinner to death was only partial justice, for no man can give two lives for the one stolen. In fact, the law says that double restitution was mandated for sheep that were found ALIVE in the thief's hand. If the sheep had been killed, the thief owed four sheep for a sheep and five oxen for an ox (Exodus 22:1). Since no man can give more than his own life, it is apparent that the death penalty was not the full penalty that could satisfy the law.Neither does the death penalty do anything to compensate or restore the victims of injustice. The relatives of the murdered man still grieve. The raped woman remains emotionally scarred. The death penalty is not justice—it was the law's way of deferring judgment to the Great White Throne, where justice could be completed, where there was no longer any fleshly limitation in the law's power to restore the losses incurred by the victims.At the Great White Throne, God Himself, who has the power to raise the dead and heal the broken-hearted, has the power to make all things right. When the fiery law is administered to the sinners, the murderer may owe his victim, say, fifty years of life, during which time he might be sentenced to serve his victim. All sin is reckoned as a debt, and therefore all sinners are the debtors of their victims. That is divine justice. I am not wise enough to know how God will judge every case, but I have confidence that He has the capability and the will to make all things right.We should also say here that if a murderer places his faith in Jesus Christ, then His crucifixion (death) will satisfy the law at the Great White Throne Judgment.Logabe
 

precepts

Member
Feb 24, 2008
180
0
16
55
crooner's
True, but are you seeking the truth on Hell or just having fun arguing? This would be a serious offence of Gods character do you agree? There is to much BS in church doctorine these days and they must be clarified with scripture.
Show me where in the bible it's an offense to God's character to argue for fun eventhough I'm not. Chris'
Precepts The entire Bible proves it I did use this article because I was being lazy I have argued and proven this so many times to those who are willing to see what Gods says not what man says God says I Just didn't have time to argue it scripture by scripture but I don't post what I cant back up unless I tell you its my own opinion.
I don't see how when you keep dodge and ignoring the facts.Chris'
Now no one ever said there wasn't a Hell there is a type of Hell but there is no burning in Hell forever and ever God doesn't torture people forever .. They simply die the second death and cease to exist both death and Hell are destroyed. This is Satan's fate, this is the state of Perdition (to be utterly destroyed)
The second death is the lake of fire forever. Why can't you understand that the lake of fire was made for the devil and his angels. It is created for immortal beings. Until you understand that Christ died for all of mankind to bring us into immortality whether good or bad. The good to eternal life and the bad to eternal shame and contempt. How does immortality put on mortality. It's not logical.Chris'
"Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." Jude 7.Sodom and Gomorrha are not burning today. Their destruction by fire was intended to be an example for all mankind of what will ultimately happen to all the wicked of all ages; not eternal torture, but eternal extinction.1:7
The wicked people of Sodom and Gomorrah are burning in the lake of fire, the city, no.Chris'
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire
Mortal death and hell, yes. That's what Christ died for. To redeem the human race from eternal death. God didn't create us to die but to live forever like the angels.Look at the fact. Not because the bible speaks of burning and turning into smoke it means death. The human race is redeemed from the curse of death that Satan started.
 

bullfighter

New Member
Jan 21, 2008
269
0
0
64
(precepts;66157)
crooner's Show me where in the bible it's an offense to God's character to argue for fun eventhough I'm not. Chris' I don't see how when you keep dodge and ignoring the facts.Chris' The second death is the lake of fire forever. Why can't you understand that the lake of fire was made for the devil and his angels. It is created for immortal beings. Until you understand that Christ died for all of mankind to bring us into immortality whether good or bad. The good to eternal life and the bad to eternal shame and contempt. How does immortality put on mortality. It's not logical.Chris' The wicked people of Sodom and Gomorrah are burning in the lake of fire, the city, no.Chris' Mortal death and hell, yes. That's what Christ died for. To redeem the human race from eternal death. God didn't create us to die but to live forever like the angels.Look at the fact. Not because the bible speaks of burning and turning into smoke it means death. The human race is redeemed from the curse of death that Satan started.
you will have your part it the lake of fire]..i will get verse in rev
 

precepts

Member
Feb 24, 2008
180
0
16
55
bull's
you will have your part it the lake of fire]..i will get verse in rev
I bet you say that to all the guys! Wow! You must have inside information!
 

AusDisciple

New Member
Dec 19, 2008
117
0
0
52
I agree with your study on this Christina. This perspective makes sense to me both logically and intuitively. (Christina;66045)
This guy is little radical ..but he is right burning in hell forever is not a Biblical concept it is contrary to God Even the original lanuage denote an age not foreverYou guys can continue this age old argument for ever but the truth is there is no burning in Hell forever My belief about "Eternal Hell" by Pastor Harry, I always had a problem with the "Hell For Ever" Doctrine as it seems so inconsistent with a Loving God. Why would a GOD of Love and Mercy allow people to literally burn forever in extreme torment? This is not only inhuman it would be more what we expect from a Book of Satan and how the Devil treats those who reject him.It seems contradictory, almost schziophrenic to tell a person, "God loves you wants to bring you to Heaven. But if you reject Him, He will burn you in Hell Fire for all of eternity. But He loves you."True, YHWH GOD gave mankind free will and we have the right and ability to choose God's Savior or reject Him. We also have the free will to do good to our fellow man or prey upon others for our own pleasure and greed.Ultimately we do choose our destiny be it Heaven or Hell. But since none of us asked to be born into this world and face the choice of Heaven or Hell, it seems Merciless, Brutal and Sadistic of God to condemn people (who reject Salvation) TO BURN IN TORMENT FOR ALL OF ETERNITY! At this point, Baptists and other Fundamentalists (who seem to love the Doctrine of "Eternal Hell Fire and Torment) will scream "God doesn't send people to hell. People send themselves there."True, God does not send people to Hell. People do self-condemn themselves to Hell but it is YHWH GOD who set up this punishment and not man or unseen forces beyond the control of God.ETERNAL TORMENT AND BURNING IN A HELL FOREVER IS "OVERKILL" "Hell For Ever" is a case where The Punishment Exceeds The Crime and seems to violate the nature of God, which is Love and Mercy. This would be like the Penalty for stealing a loaf of bread is being beaten half to death or having your hand cut off (as literally taught in The Koran). I do not believe The Bible teaches that Hell Is Forever. I believe that Hell will last for a space of time (1000 years) and then be no more, that Hell and those in it will be "disintegrated" in an act of YHWH GOD'S Ultimate Mercy.Now I will show you why I do not believe HELL IS FOREVER and you can decide for yourself what is true.To start our search for The Truth, lets start with John:3:16 which is the heart and crux of The Gospel. (we will explore six, key verses of Scripture dealing with Heaven and Hell).VERSE ONE "FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLDHE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, THAT WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHALL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE."Perish or everlasting life". . . I don't see JESUS saying, "Burning in Hell For Ever vs Everlasting Life, do you? "Perish" seems to mean destruction and the word perish in Greek is Apollymi and means total destruction.VERSE TWO "DO NOT FEAR THOSE WHO CAN ONLY KILL THE BODY BUT FEAR GOD WHO CAN DESTROY YOUR BODY AND SOUL IN HELL."(Matt:10:28).This verse spoken by JESUS seems to clarify JN:3:16 as to what it means to "perish". We are told that in Hell, GOD can destroy both your body and soul.People who are cast into Hell (Mt:10:28) are not burning for all of eternity. There comes an end to their torment, A Finality, the destruction of both body and soul in hell. VERSE THREE 9 "And the third angel followedsaying with a loud voice, "If anyman worships The Beast and his Image and receives his mark inhis forehead or right hand, 10 "The same shall drink of the Wrath of God, poured out upon the world, and he shall be Tormented with fire and brim-stone (hell) in the presence ofthe holy angels and The Lamb 11 "and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for everand ever and they shall have No rest day or night, who worshipsThe Beast and receives the Markof his name." (Rev:14:9-11) During The Tribulation, God will send His Angels to give mankind the Final Warning, that "all who take the mark of The Beast (and worship Satan) will be tormented in Hell, and the smoke of their toment acsendeth up for ever and ever and they shall have no rest day or night."This verse seems to say that "HELL IS FOREVER". But what about the other two Gospel verses we just read? What about Jn:3:16 and Matt:10:28 where Jesus said, "Our soul and body can be destroyed (perish) in Hell?" Does The Bible contradict itself? Not at all because we still have eight chapters left in Revelation.VERSE FOUR13 "And the sea gave up the deadwhich were in them; and death andHell delivered up the dead which were in them and they were judgedaccording to their works." 14 "And death and Hell wereCast into the Lake of fire.This is the Second Death. 15"And whosoever was not found written in the book of lifewas cast into the lake of fire."(Rev:20:14-15)."And Death and Hell will deliver up their dead". The Bible is clear as day! People will not burn in Hell For Ever, as Billy Graham and The Baptists,Catholics and others so boldy proclaim. I believe that Hell is in the center of the earth because the center of the earth is a burning fiery "hell". This is why "Hell is down" and why we point up for Heaven as we gaze beyond the stars.Then "Death and Hell were cast into the Lake of Fire" = which is called The "Second Death". I believe this represents The COMPLETE DESTRUCTION OF A PERSON- BODY-SOUL- SPIRIT = TOTAL DISINTEGRATION.VERSE SIXAnd I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the firstearth were passed away And the sea was no more.(Rev:21:1)Now we see the "heavens and earth" itself (along with Death and Hell) cast into the lake of Fire which can either be The Sun or a dimensional lake of Fire, hotter than anything imaginable.Hell Is Not Forever After All. Look at that! People suffer for their sins in this subterranean Place of Darkness and Flames, then they are cast into The LAKE OF FIRE = The Second Death and are no more.What about Rev:14 that says "Those who take the mark of The Beast shall be tormented forever, night and day?"1- well night and day is relative as it involves time and space. If God destroys the "heavens and earth" (the universe) then time, night and day, will cease to exist.2- The smoke of their torment, the literal smoke and screams of those who suffer and burn in HELL will echo thruout the universe for all eternity or until again, the universe is destroyed.This concept of SOUL DISINTEGRATION is consistent with YHWH GOD'S nature of Love and Mercy. JESUS taught us, Blessed are the merciful for you shall obtain mercy." Should not the Mercy of God far exceed our own?TOTAL SOUL DISINTEGRATION has a sad note, that many people are so proud and wicked, they must be DISINTEGRATED, just as if they never even existed. Yet God still uses the wicked to work good, so their existence upon earth had some value after all. God used Hitler and his Nazi's to bring about The Restoration of Israel as a nation, the Jewish homeland. (14 May 1948). In my own life, God allowed thieves to steal my hemi race engine. This was so I would come to realize there is far more to life than racing a car around a track and set my life path of Seeking GOD and His Will for my life.You can probably look back in your own life and see how God used evil (people who choose to do harm) to help steer you towards Salvation. Final Note: In Rev:20:13, We again see those in Hell (center of earth) delivered up from Hell and stand before God where as "their works in life are judged". I believe here too, YHWH GOD will give those souls (who suffered in hell's torment for 1000 years) A LAST CHANCE to repent and make Heaven.YET AS UNBELIEVABLE AS IT SOUNDS, NONE WILL TAKE THIS OFFER! THEY WILL RATHER BE DISINTERGRATED THAN TO SERVE GOD IN HEAVEN.
 

bullfighter

New Member
Jan 21, 2008
269
0
0
64
(precepts;66224)
bull's I bet you say that to all the guys! Wow! You must have inside information!
...my words was very unclearthere is a verse in the bible that says [you will have your part in the lake of fire] i do not say that to anyone .i was asking if any one new where it was..
 

Christina

New Member
Apr 10, 2006
10,885
101
0
15
(AusDisciple;66225)
I agree with your study on this Christina. This perspective makes sense to me both logically and intuitively.
Thanks AusDisciple when we see Gods truth it makes sense and sits right in our mind and soul I have reaseached and studied these scripture and debated this a 1000 times and have never found any other way that it can fit ALL of Gods Word his nature and work. So many today form opinions and just ignore what does not fit .. If all scriptures on a topic do not fit into the puzzel we have something wrong as God Word has no contradictions only misunderstanding by us humans .. When the answer is right it all works .. God Bless
 

AusDisciple

New Member
Dec 19, 2008
117
0
0
52
(Christina;66241)
.......when we see Gods truth it makes sense and sits right in our mind and soul........If all scriptures on a topic do not fit into the puzzel we have something wrong as God Word has no contradictions only misunderstanding by us humans .. When the answer is right it all works .. God Bless
I am VERY quickly learning this! There's plenty in the Bible that I do not understand but the things I have comprehended with guidance from the Holy Spirit just make it obvious to me that I have plenty to do on my journey with God.All this just makes it so much more apparent to me how infinitely awesome God is and how we cannot possibly comprehend all that He is and all that His word says. What is equally awesome is that God does provide us clear answers when we seek them and when we are ready to receive them. If something doesn't make sense to me, I ask God for the guidance to make it clear and I wait patiently for Him to reveal the answer to me. He knows when I am ready to hear it. :shepard: :pray: :bible:
 

Christina

New Member
Apr 10, 2006
10,885
101
0
15
(AusDisciple;66247)
I am VERY quickly learning this! There's plenty in the Bible that I do not understand but the things I have comprehended with guidance from the Holy Spirit just make it obvious to me that I have plenty to do on my journey with God.All this just makes it so much more apparent to me how infinitely awesome God is and how we cannot possibly comprehend all that He is and all that His word says. What is equally awesome is that God does provide us clear answers when we seek them and when we are ready to receive them. If something doesn't make sense to me, I ask God for the guidance to make it clear and I wait patiently for Him to reveal the answer to me. He knows when I am ready to hear it. :shepard: :pray: :bible:
You are absoutly right All wisdom comes from God and he gives one that wisdom when we ask. Our challenge comes in blocking out the voices of men so we can hear God. He's never failed me if I wait paitiently and pray he will always answer us.
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
38
(Christina;66248)
(AusDisciple;66247)
I am VERY quickly learning this! There's plenty in the Bible that I do not understand but the things I have comprehended with guidance from the Holy Spirit just make it obvious to me that I have plenty to do on my journey with God.All this just makes it so much more apparent to me how infinitely awesome God is and how we cannot possibly comprehend all that He is and all that His word says. What is equally awesome is that God does provide us clear answers when we seek them and when we are ready to receive them. If something doesn't make sense to me, I ask God for the guidance to make it clear and I wait patiently for Him to reveal the answer to me. He knows when I am ready to hear it. :shepard: :pray: :bible:
You are absoutly right All wisdom comes from God and he gives one that wisdom when we ask. Our challenge comes in blocking out the voices of men so we can hear God. He's never failed me if I wait paitiently and pray he will always answer us.Dannii, Christina knows what happen when I have to quote her. I back her up in her sayings with scriptures.Proverbs 3:18 - She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.The word she means wisdom. And the tree of life is Christ. (John 14:6) And there is a verse that matches Proverbs 3:18...I Corinthians 1:24 - But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.And yes, God's Words makes it so clear to hear.
 

bullfighter

New Member
Jan 21, 2008
269
0
0
64
(precepts;66224)
bull's I bet you say that to all the guys! Wow! You must have inside information!
it says part, in the lake of fire which is the 2nd death[what does part mean?]..in anoughter verse it says in a twikle of a eye corruption will put on in corruption...where does the corruption go?
 

logabe

Active Member
Aug 28, 2008
880
47
28
66
The law of God demands the restoration of all things (Acts 3:21). The divine judgments of God are not eternal, as men define eternal. They are aionian, as the Greek text says. They pertain only to an eon (aion), or an age. The "lake of fire" mentioned in Revelation 20:11-15 is the same as the "fiery stream" mentioned in Daniel 7:9-11. Daniel tells us that the fire comes from God's throne. A throne is an ancient symbol of law. When a king sits upon a throne, he is officially administering the law or its judgments. God is the King of Creation, and He judges all according to His law. Therefore, the fire is the divine law, as Moses tells us in Deuteronomy 33:2,2 And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.The "fire" of the divine law judges no man for any crime by sentencing them to burn in a literal fire. All sin is reckoned as a debt that is owed to the victims of injustice. If the sinner cannot pay the restitution, he is to be a bondservant until thedebt is paid. The believers will rule over them. That is, the believers will be given authority over the sinners (debtors), and be responsible to teach them the righteousness and character of God. For this reason, the prophet tells us in Isaiah 26:9,9 . . . For when the earth experiences Thy judgments, the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness.This is the "fire" of the divine law. It is not torture or punishment; it is justice. God's judgments are corrective in nature. With God, there is no endless punishment without mercy. Judgment always ends in grace, for that is the law of Jubilee.Regardless of the precise nature of God's judgment upon sinners in that age, we know from the law of Jubilee that God's judgments are age-abiding, not everlasting, as some have translated the Greek word, aionian. Proper translations of this term are found in Young's Literal Translation and Rotherham's The Emphasized Bible. They understand aionian in the same way that the early Church fathers did, for their writings often spoke of the judgments to come as being temporary and limited to an age.The law of Jubilee demands an end to all liability for sin (debt) at some point in the future. The law of Jubilee demands that all debts be cancelled at the end of that final age. Then all creation will be set free into the glorious liberty of the sons of God (Rom. 8:21).Logabe