Don't be left Behind on Rapture Day!!

[GISMYS_7]

Don't be left Behind! Rapture (Catching up of Believers) is Imminent. Proof== Google=="" Prophecy Alert Don't Be Left Behind by Paul Begley ""!

 

[n2thelight]

Don't be left Behind! Rapture (Catching up of Believers) is Imminent. Proof== Google=="" Prophecy Alert Don't Be Left Behind by Paul Begley ""!

So again ,when did it become imminent ?

 

[Keraz]

To all who hold to the belief of a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church:
Have you really considered any alternative to a 'rapture'? Because there are viable and scriptural end times scenarios where God's people remain on earth.
You need to know that many respected Bible scholars cast doubts on a rapture, if not actively refute that theory.

So the attitude of some 'rapture to heaven' believers, how they hold the moral high ground, is unwarranted and in some cases, amounts to a very judgmental and sometimes rude response to their fellow Christians.
This is a serious indictment against all who have strong beliefs but fail to really study or comprehend any alternatives.

Is it really God's Plan to remove His people, so they avoid the tough times prophesied to come?
Why should He do that for this generation, when all the previous generations have faced persecutions?
'Rapture' believers say it is a secret thing, therefore it’s not clearly stated in the Bible. Not in the Bible? So it is in fact, unbiblical and comes under the category of mankinds teachings. 2 Timothy 4:3-4

Jesus warned us against being deceived; Paul said; that ravening wolves would deceive the flock, even from among the Christians men will distort the truth to get people to follow them. Acts 20:29-30
So, plainly; some are deceived and even if they may be in a majority, that does not mean their beliefs are true.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Catching up of believers (rapture)
1Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be ""caught up"" together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[Copperhead]

While many berate those who believe in a pre-trib removal of the righteous, those who do hold a PT removal are all inclusive.... everyone who has placed their trust in Yeshua gets to catch the bus out of here, even those who fight tooth and nail against the idea. Not a person who has placed their trust in Messiah will be "left behind".

1 Thessalonians 4:18 (NKJV) Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[Copperhead]

Is it really God's Plan to remove His people, so they avoid the tough times prophesied to come?
Why should He do that for this generation, when all the previous generations have faced persecutions?

Well, none of the believers in the past or present who have or are facing persecution have dealt with......

Matthew 24:21 (NKJV) For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Nothing like it has come before it. It is a totally unique scenario. And the removal is a totally unique response to that. To even equate what other believers have had to endure with what is coming is not an equitable comparison.

 

[Copperhead]

So, plainly; some are deceived and even if they may be in a majority, that does not mean their beliefs are true.

That works both ways. Just because you are convinced of something doesn't mean you are not deceived. Since the various eschatological positions are not a condition of salvation, then it might be wise to express one's views either way with a sense of humility instead of condemnation. You are still welcome aboard the rapture bus when it leaves. Those of us who hold that view are welcoming all the believers to hop on board!

Now that is the moral high ground!!

 

[Helen]

The 'save your skin' teaching.

Amazing how many thousands and thousands , over many centuries have been persecuted and martyred for Christ...
Strange that He raptured none.
But we here, comfortably in the west , believe that somehow we shall escape all that is coming upon the earth and be zapped out.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... Those of us who hold that view ... that is the moral high ground!!

Being deluded into either position without a thorough investigation is not "moral", -- it's foolishness. For who in their right mind would risk not being able to "buy or sell" and being economically "forced" into denying their Christianity. Conversely who would suffer loss if all their preparations for shelter, food, water, and fuel were to be unused if there WERE a "rapture". -- So even an ignorant position would favor preparation for NO TRIBULATION ERA "RAPTURE", only to find that there WERE a TRIBULATION ERA RAPTURE.

But forget IGNORANCE and consider SCRIPTURE, -- wouldn't it make MORE SENSE if the "rapture" were at the end of the Millennial Kingdom, so that those who are alive and remain on earth can ascend to the New Jerusalem?!?

Rev. 20:4 ... Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.​

But people are basically foolish, and so we see their destiny. For what good is a GREAT FALLING AWAY, without it's foolish participants! :)
Bobby Jo

 

[Stan B]

The 'save your skin' teaching.

Amazing how many thousands and thousands, over many centuries have been persecuted and martyred for Christ...
Strange that He raptured none.
But we here, comfortably in the west , believe that somehow we shall escape all that is coming upon the earth and be zapped out.

Helen, I think you have the correct view of the things that are about to take place.

"When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth? They were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also." Rev 6

So for martyrs to continue to be killed, the saints must still be here on earth, because there will be no saints here after the rapture. Even Jesus' own disciples did not martyrdom.

And then John says" "I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb" . . “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come **OUT** of the great tribulation." Rev 7:9

 

[Copperhead]

Something that doesn't seem to get mentioned is the details of....

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NKJV) Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

The Greek apostasia in that passage, many Greek scholars feel is simply "departure", "the departing", "the departure", "a departure", etc. The text of the 1599 Geneva Bible shows that....

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (1599 Geneva Bible) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.

In fact, virtually every English translation prior to the KJV, and even the Latin Vulgate did the same thing. "falling away" did not come into vogue until the KJV showed up. Without a direct object of what is being departed from, it is taking commentary license to demand that it be viewed as the "falling away", "departure from the faith", etc.

The apostasia only appears twice, and in the other occurrence, Acts 21:21, what is being departed from is mentioned. To impute that the the same meaning of a spiritual departure is in view in 2 Thessalonians is taking unsupported liberty in translation because nothing in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 shows what is being departed from.

Apostasia and its equivalent, aphistemi, the uses in many other passages have in view a physical departure over a spiritual departure. For instance Luke 2:37, 4:13, 13:27, Acts 5:37-38, 15:38, 19:9, 22:29, 2 Corinthians 12:8. Thus, it is not outside the bounds to view 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as showing a physical departure must occur before the beast / antichrist / son of perdition comes on the scene since apostasia in that passage stands alone.

There are many Greek scholars who concur.

When we look at the context laid out....

2 Thessalonians 2:1 (NKJV) Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,

The context of the passage is our gathering to the Lord, not a departing from Him. And if 2 Thessalonians 2:3 simply means "departure" then based on the context of verse 1 it would mean a physical departure / removal / rapture...... our gathering to Him.

And if that is true, then Paul wrote that the departure / removal / rapture must occur before the man of sin / son of perdition / antichrist / beast is revealed.

 

[Copperhead]

So for martyrs to continue to be killed, the saints must still be here on earth, because there will be no saints here after the rapture.

Why not, Stan? Is it so hard to conceive that the event of the removal of the righteous would cause many to finally realize that what the scripture says of the Messiah is true? And if they act on that realization, they would finally believe and trust in Messiah, thus there would indeed be saints here after the removal. What of the Hebrew people who don't believe now? The scripture is very clear that the Messiah will not return until they acknowledge their offense of rejecting Him the first time and they turn to Him and petition for His return. Hosea lays that out and Yeshua (Jesus) expounded on that in Matthew. So the Hebrew people as a corporate entity must turn to Yeshua and that would make them saints also.

Cliff

 

[Stan B]

And if that is true, then Paul wrote that the departure / removal / rapture must occur before the man of sin / son of perdition / antichrist / beast is revealed.

i.e. after the seventh seal has been opened.

 

[Stan B]

Paul wrote that the departure / removal / rapture must occur before the man of sin / son of perdition / antichrist / beast is revealed.

Yeh. Before the 7th seal has been opened.

 

[Copperhead]

At what point before the 7th seal? Seems kind of strange at the 7th seal or even just before it given the events of the previous 6 seals. When has 1/4 of the earths population been killed in one swoop as the 4th seal mentions? And when was peace taken from the entire earth as mentioned in Seal 2? And the events of the 6th seal? Now that is real stretch. It would seem the antichrist comes on the scene at Seal 1. And if the analysis of 2 Thessalonians 2 is correct, then that would still place the removal before seal one.

Cliff

 

[Stan B]

Why not, Stan? Is it so hard to conceive that the event of the removal of the righteous would cause many to finally realize that what the scripture says of the Messiah is true? And if they act on that realization, they would finally believe and trust in Messiah, thus there would indeed be saints here after the removal. What of the Hebrew people who don't believe now? The scripture is very clear that the Messiah will not return until they acknowledge their offense of rejecting Him the first time and they turn to Him and petition for His return. Hosea lays that out and Yeshua (Jesus) expounded on that in Matthew. So the Hebrew people as a corporate entity must turn to Yeshua and that would make them saints also.
Cliff

Copperhead >>Is it so hard to conceive that the event of the removal of the righteous would cause many to finally realize that what the scripture says of the Messiah is true?

Nope!! "they repented not of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts." Rev 9:21

When the saints, who are the Temple of the Holy Spirit are gathered UP, then the One who convicts of sin, is gathered up with Him.

Copperhead >>What of the Hebrew people who don't believe now?

"For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and so ** *ALL *** all Israel will be saved; just as it is written Rom 11:26

Isaiah 45:17 Israel has been saved by the LORD With an everlasting salvation; You will not be put to shame or humiliated To all eternity.

God has a special plan for Israel, a plan for the corporate salvation of ALL ISRAEL!

 

[Copperhead]

The 'save your skin' teaching.

Amazing how many thousands and thousands , over many centuries have been persecuted and martyred for Christ...
Strange that He raptured none.
But we here, comfortably in the west , believe that somehow we shall escape all that is coming upon the earth and be zapped out.

But again, Helen, Yeshua (Jesus) was very clear that the tribulation of the last days would be far worse than anything else that has happened in the history of the earth. That would include the events that brought on the flood during the time of Noah. It is not accurate to equate what has happened to believers over the last 2000 years to what will go down in the future tribulation period. It will be a unique event that has no comparison in the history of this planet.

Actually, there has been removals / raptures in the past. Enoch and Elijah for instance.

"zapped out", really? I have never seen a translator use "zapped out" to define the harpazo. So nice of you to demean others who do not hold your view on these things.

Cliff

 

[Copperhead]

God has a special plan for Israel, a plan for the corporate salvation of ALL ISRAEL!

Indeed! But He will not return until that happens. That corporate turning of the Hebrew people to Him by acknowledging their offense of rejecting Him, turning to Him, and petitioning for His return is the condition for His return. Nothing else will cause Him to return physically on this earth.

Hosea 5:15 - 6:1 (NKJV) 15 I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.
Then they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me."
1 Come, and let us return to the Lord;
For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.

Jeremiah 30:7 (NKJV) Alas! For that day is great,
So that none is like it;
And it is the time of Jacob's trouble,
But he shall be saved out of it.

It is generally accepted that the "time of Jacob's trouble" is the climatic period of the tribulation.

The removal of the righteous prior to that has nothing to do with His return. He doesn't return to this earth. Those who trust in Him are caught up to be with Him. Some seem to equate the removal with the return. They are not the same event. And 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 implies the gathering of the believers will occur prior to the revealing of the antichrist / son of perdition / man of sin, who is the main instigator of the time of Jacob's trouble. And that period starts at the opening of the first seal. It is Yeshua who is opening the seals. Nothing can occur before then, so in essence, the period is started by Yeshua.

1 Thessalonians 4:17-18 (NKJV) Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Cliff

 

[Stan B]

Actually, there has been removals / raptures in the past. Enoch and Elijah for instance.

Cliff

Indeed! I find the Book of Jasher quite fascinating. Not only Enoch was raptured in preparation for the Flood, but thousands of his followers who accompanied Enoch to his place of departure disappeared along with Enoch. When they tried to find Enoch and his followers, they could find no trace of them.

 

[Copperhead]

Indeed! I find the Book of Jasher quite fascinating. Not only Enoch was raptured in preparation for the Flood, but thousands of his followers who accompanied Enoch to his place of departure disappeared along with Enoch. When they tried to find Enoch and his followers, they could find no trace of them.

Nice tidbit! I am not really well versed on Jasher. Will have to take at look at that when I get a chance! Thanks!

Cliff