Double Standards: Does the liberty in Christ have limitations?

[shnarkle]

You are lost man. I wish whoever has done this to you would CHOKE on their food so they cannot harm anyone else.

Christ and Paul both point out that one's own conscience must be abandoned for the sake of adhering to the will, conscience, purpose, etc. of God.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Christ and Paul both point out that one's own conscience must be abandoned for the sake of adhering to the will, conscience, purpose, etc. of God.

[removed] Neither of them ever counseled a man to abandon his conscience.

 

[Nancy]

No. This is a common misconception among Christians. If you read the Torah (the first five books of Moses), you will note that there are a number of passages where God says to Moses to speak to the children of Israel, and tell them what he has told him to say to them, but what he has told him to say was never written down. God explicitly told Moses to write some things down, and not to write other things down. What he was told not to write down was to be orally transmitted. Originally, none of it was written down, but it could still be distinguished between the Torah and the Oral law. All of it was given to Moses by God. However, as time progressed, there were additions to the Oral law, and eventually it was inundated with so much additional material, that it was no longer effective at transmitting what God had originally intended.



The Torah is the written law of God. The Talmud is commentary, but it was also eventually committed to writing when it was becoming apparent that the next genocide could leave no one to transmit the Oral Tradition to the next generation. The rabbis were being systematically exterminated, and decided that they would have to write the oral law down before they were all gone.
Christians have an overwhelming amount of commentary available to them on the bible, but none of it can compare to what you will find in the Talmud, especially the Babylonian Talmud. You can download a copy of it from online. You will find many cases where what some rabbi or Sage from Judaism said long before the gospels were written says the exact same thing. Most of what Jesus says in the gospel accounts can be found in the Talmud. Barring a few notable exceptions, this is also the case with Paul.

Thanks for the info. Yet, I could never consider the Talmud, Babylonian or not as part of Gods breathed word.

 

[shnarkle]

Thanks for the info. Yet, I could never consider the Talmud, Babylonian or not as part of Gods breathed word.

God's breathed word indicates that God told Moses to tell them what God has said. That's the Oral law. I don't know any Christians who haven't placed the teachings of their own parents, pastors, etc. at the same level of God's breathed word. How can you say you don't place it at the same level when you've never even read it? Again, if you do read it, you will find that much of it is right out of the bible anyways. Much of it is practically copied verbatim into the New Testament.

 

[shnarkle]

You have gone insane. Neither of them ever counseled a man to abandon his conscience.

They both counseled their followers to abandon their LIVES! Who do you know who has a conscience that tells them to abandon their lives? Abandon and forsake everything in your life for the sake of the kingdom. Good luck finding anyone who is going to have a conscience that agrees with that one. There is no one on this entire website who has a conscience that will not immediately come up with some argument to deny forsaking everything. Nice try, but your repeated trolling Ad Hominem comments don't cut it with me. Welcome to Ignored.

 

[mjrhealth]

they can kill their next meal as well because no one is justified by keeping any of God's commandments.

Oh so you got it than, good, because not one person will stand before God and be found innocent by the law, not one. The law brings one thing and one thing only, death to those who choose it above the works of Christ.

 

[Nancy]

God's breathed word indicates that God told Moses to tell them what God has said. That's the Oral law. I don't know any Christians who haven't placed the teachings of their own parents, pastors, etc. at the same level of God's breathed word. How can you say you don't place it at the same level when you've never even read it? Again, if you do read it, you will find that much of it is right out of the bible anyways. Much of it is practically copied verbatim into the New Testament.

I simply prefer to rely on the bible itself, no extra-biblical oral/writings could ever be on the same level. We have all we need from the bible itself, no other writings, or sayings needed.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

 

[farouk]

I simply prefer to rely on the bible itself, no extra-biblical oral/writings could ever be on the same level. We have all we need from the bible itself, no other writings, or sayings needed.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

Great verses there...

 

[Nancy]

Great verses there...

Aren't they all great, lol.! Thank you

 

[Enoch111]

...yet preventing a cannibal convert from eating whatever they want is not a double standard.

BY DEFINITION A CANNIBAL CONVERT WILL GIVE UP CANNIBALISM.

Are you hoping to adopt cannibalism as your preferred diet?

 

[shnarkle]

Oh so you got it than, good,

God what?

because not one person will stand before God and be found innocent by the law, not one.

Let's see how this plays out with an example from the law. The law states that it is an abomination to engage in sodomy, necrophilia, bestiality, etc. Are you going to be found innocent or guilty of these charges when you stand before God? Are these laws done away in Christ, or not?

The law brings one thing and one thing only, death to those who choose it above the works of Christ.

False. Transgression of the law is what brings death. There is no law against keeping the law, and those who keep God's commandments "will live".

 

[mjrhealth]

God what?



Let's see how this plays out with an example from the law. The law states that it is an abomination to engage in sodomy, necrophilia, bestiality, etc. Are you going to be found innocent or guilty of these charges when you stand before God? Are these laws done away in Christ, or not?



False. Transgression of the law is what brings death. There is no law against keeping the law, and those who keep God's commandments "will live".

Yet no one does, no not one, though many boast they do, God is not blind to mens foolishness.

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

So keep up the facade it doesnt fool God.

 

[shnarkle]

Yet no one does, no not one, though many boast they do, God is not blind to mens foolishness.

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

So keep up the facade it doesnt fool God.

Your whole post is too vague to be worth bothering with. Why do you post such nonsense at all? You can't be serious. How about addressing the actual topic of this debate? Is there some good reason why you feel some need to ignore the topic under discussion altogether, and instead engage in trolling Ad Hominem?

 

[shnarkle]

Yet no one does, no not one, though many boast they do, God is not blind to mens foolishness.

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

So keep up the facade it doesnt fool God.

Nowhere have I ever claimed that anyone is justified by the law. Strawman argument. Please stop trolling.

 

[Nancy]

Yet no one does, no not one, though many boast they do, God is not blind to mens foolishness.

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

So keep up the facade it doesnt fool God.

Awesome scripture verses. How can anyone defend their position of thinking they MUST be under the Law? Cannot be done. The simplicity of it all is that when God etched His laws onto the lining of our hearts, a Christian after God's own heart in sincerity will NOT break the Law. And, the Law for Christians is Love God and neighbor which if followed, none of the other 10 Commandments will be broken. And if per chance, we DO break the law (sin) we have an advocate with the Father. God is in the business of forgiveness and mercy and GRACE. That way of thinking does away with what Christ did for us.

 

[mjrhealth]

Your whole post is too vague to be worth bothering with. Why do you post such nonsense at all? You can't be serious. How about addressing the actual topic of this debate? Is there some good reason why you feel some need to ignore the topic under discussion altogether, and instead engage in trolling Ad Hominem?

How can it be so vague, here you are demanding we keep the law, that even the Jews, Israelite could not do, that Christ went to the cross for because we ourselves could never do it, you say you keep the law, but you dont, how was it Jesus put it,

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Why do so many have problems with grace.. maybe because they cant boast of themselves. Look at me God look at what I did..

 

[shnarkle]

How can it be so vague, here you are demanding we keep the law,

FALSE. I am not demanding anything of the sort. Strawman argument.

that even the Jews, Israelite could not do, that Christ went to the cross for because we ourselves could never do it, you say you keep the law,

You're a liar. Where have I posted that I keep the law????

Why do so many have problems with grace..

You'd know why if you were being conformed to the image of Christ. The reason they have a problem with it is because they're deceived into believing that they belong to the New Covenant when they're still clinging to the Old.

 

[mjrhealth]

You're a liar. Where have I posted that I keep the law????

So if you dont why are you insisting we do????

Act_15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

 

[shnarkle]

So if you dont why are you insisting we do????

Why are you trolling? I'm not insisting any such thing. You're free to be as disobedient as you please. Have at it. God doesn't care. Read the first chapter of Romans where Paul points out that God gave up on those who are openly defiant in their rebellion. God gave up on them.

Act_15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

I'm not commanding anyone to be circumcised either. I'm just pointing out what the bible actually states. You're just imagining strawmen, and attacking them instead of addressing my argument.

 

[mjrhealth]

Why are you trolling? I'm not insisting any such thing. You're free to be as disobedient as you please. Have at it. God doesn't care. Read the first chapter of Romans where Paul points out that God gave up on those who are openly defiant in their rebellion. God gave up on them.

Disobedient, where may I ask? ??

heres one for you, if you where in a war or stranded on an island, no food at all, only the bodies of dead men. Do you think God would condemn you for eating all that you have available, or would you rather forgo the life He gave you and starve to death. For a cannibal, eating men is ok, just as it is for kids that eat lollies or men that drink alcohol, there is only one standard and that is Christ, but untill we are all changes in a twinkling of an eye, we still live in this orrid flesh. Who are we to judge or condemn anyone for what they eat. What is right in one mans eye... only opinions.