Earth, Created to stand forever

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Glancing at some recent posts here, there seems to be some question as to the duration of the earth, i.e. specifically as to how long it will last. Various scriptures have been applied some suggesting the earth is to be destroyed others that it will remain. As all true Bible Students know the Bible is the Living Word of God and therefore cannot contradict itself, if therefore something seems to be a contradiction it is usually found that the fault lies not with God’s word but with ourselves in our not properly interpreting a questionable scripture or text. The number one mistake is that someone tried to force a literal interpretation on something that is clearly symbolic.

Naturally the first scripture used in support of the fact that the earth abides forever is found in Eccl 1:4,

“One generation passes away, and another generation comes; but the earth abides forever.”

Likewise we have,

“For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.” (Isa 45:18)

“Bless Jehovah, O my soul. O Jehovah my God, thou art very great; Thou art clothed with honor and majesty: Who covers thyself with light as with a garment; Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain…Who laid the foundations of the earth, That it should not be moved forever.” (Psa 104:1, 4)

These scriptures in regards to the length or duration of the earth seem pretty much straight forward, and thus are taken as literal statements of fact. The earth abideth forever, He hath established it that, it should not be moved FOREVER, pretty plain isn’t it?

Now on the other hand, what shall we make of the following scriptures?

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” (Matt 24:35)

“And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of thy hands: They shall perish; but thou continues: And they all shall wax old as doth a garment” (Heb 1:10, 11) a quote of Psa 102:25, 26

“Therefore wait ye for me, saith Jehovah, until the day that I rise up to the prey; for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger; for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.” (Zep 3:8)

“But the heavens that now are, and the earth, by the same word have been stored up for fire, being reserved against the Day of Judgment and destruction of ungodly men.” (2 Pet 3:7)

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” (2 Pet 3:10)

In these scriptures we seem to have an apparent contradiction, but that is ONLY if they are taken literally, rather than symbolically as they were intended.

The “heavens” and the “earth” here mentioned do not refer to the literal heavens and earth, but rather to the symbolic heavens and earth, that is, the “heavens” here mentioned represent the spiritual controlling powers presently in control, Satan, the fallen angels with him, and also his master work, ecclesiasticism, the present religious systems.

The “earth” here mentioned is not the literal either, but rather refers to the present social order, society as it is now presently organized under Satan’s control.

It is to these “heavens” and “earth” that the foregoing scriptures had referred, these are they, which shall, perish, which are reserved for the “fire” of the Great Day, The Day of His Vengeance, The Great Time of Trouble, these shall be burned up, dissolved (melt) with fervent heat (turmoil, strife, anarchy, human passion and wrath).

This in order to make way for the NEW “heavens” and “earth” (2 Pet 3:13) New spiritual powers, Christ’s Kingdom, our Lord taking the place of Satan, and his body the Church, taking the place of the fallen angles, a new religious order or system, one based upon truth and righteousness. A NEW “earth”, a new social order, reorganized on the new basis of love and justice. This is the new earth symbolically, but it is the same earth (or globe) literality.

Matt. 24:35 is hyperbole, you can't take this scripture literally.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Why do you not believe the scriptures?

Indeed, God is love, but He has not ordained love for what is evil. On the contrary, He has divided light from darkness, and the new heaven and earth are of the Light, and this old heaven and earth are of the darkness and to destroyed in fervent heat and by fire.

I do believe the scriptures, have you ever thought that maybe you're not believing the scriptures, that how you interpret the scriptures could be wrong?

 

[Stranger]

I’m not meaning to imply what you say between literal and the spiritual. I realize it is both. Yet, A literal truth that Jesus was the Son of God, crucified and resurrected in power takes spiritual eyes to believe He rose from the dead. Otherwise He is a man that was crucified and remained dead. They challenged Him to come down off the cross and heal himself. I’m done, Stranger. Have at it. There is one thing we are supposed to do and that is to edify one another. There are things going on in and around my life where I really need to see the Spirit’s help He has left us with. In no way am I trying to tear down your faith or attack your understanding..I don’t mean to. I am trying to encourage you into even more. If it is all over ‘spiritualizing trash’ then fine, I will see the errors when I try to apply, as you say, to life. John MacArthur says God’s Word is logical. That man should read it and apply with logical sense. In fact he mocks over ‘spiritualizing’ what is logical. It is far from ‘logical’ and was never meant to be.

I never thought for a moment you were wanting to tear down my faith or understanding. I am just making the point that the literal truths spoken of in the Bible are spiritual truths. God is Spirit. And we are spirit. And ever word of the Bible is Spirit. Thus when you set down as a spirit being connected to God's Spirit, to read God's Word, then God's Spirit will minister to you as He wants as you read.

I guess what I am saying is to see the Bible as literally true is not to divorce God from ministering to you spiritually. I disagree with MacArthur in other areas so I don't pay much attention to him. Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit knows us individually and will minister to us individually as we seek Him and seek to know His Word. To understand a literal truth is to understand a spiritual truth in the Bible.

Stranger

 

[Truth7t7]

First, are we not to move from milk to the meat? I’m not saying there is no literal meaning but sometimes that literal meaning gets us in to trouble. Sometimes there has to be a move into the spiritual meaning, otherwise we completely twist what God says and means. For instance: my husband was repairing a pastors heating and air. During their conversation the pastor shares with my husband how the pastor had just given a sermon on Samson. The topic was on “what a wasted life”. All that is being seen is the “literal” and because of it a entire congregation walks away believing Samson’s life could have been used by God but it wasn’t. It is lie. Samson’s life was used to testify of Christ with numerous spiritual truths within the verses. From the foxes tails catching the corn on fire, to the lion and the honey, to the purchase of tunics, to tearing off the gate and throwing it upon his shoulders and carrying it up a hill, to taking down an army with the jawbone of an ass, to the three things Samson was not to do: drink of the vine, touch the dead, or cut his hair. Samson is only an example of how God uses every verse of the Word of God(spiritually) to feed and nurture and grow those that are His into a demonstration of the spiritual that goes far beyond what man can reason on his own.

You said “There is nothing to govern the 'spiritual method' of interpretation. Each believer interprets as he wants to.” But that is not true: Acts 5:38-39
[38] And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: [39] But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

If I were to stay with all the literal meanings I have been spoon-fed over the years then I would never move past the physical demonstration taught by Jesus into a spiritual (greater)work taught: Mark 16:17-18 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

If I stayed in the ‘literal’ never moving on to ‘Spirit’...I would be joining a church that handles literal snakes and drinks literal poison. Because of the forced ‘literal’ ...we (the body) are missing what God has given us the power to do today. which is to a lot. Instead we sit around packing God back into a ‘literal’ possessive box while the Spirit is ready and willing to work.

In Love!

As 2 Peter 3 alone starts with scoffers and Jesus Second Advent, he talks about Noah's flood, and then in verse (7) states this heaven and earth are kept in store for fire in Judgment?

You really want to look at the several scriptures below, that depicts a literal, physical , earth being burned up as a spiritual metaphor, really?

Did Noah's flood actually happen, or was that a metaphor also?

This existing earth will be dissolved by the Lords fire in final judgment at his return.

Jesus Christ Has/Will Create A New Heaven And Earth, This Earth Will Pass Away.

Revelarion 21:1KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Isaiah 24:20KJV
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

2 Peter 3:3-13KJV
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Psalm 46:6KJV
The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earthmelted.

Psalm 97:5KJV
The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

 

[ScottA]

I do believe the scriptures, have you ever thought that maybe you're not believing the scriptures, that how you interpret the scriptures could be wrong?

It is not I who has chosen to believe some of the scriptures and ignored others.

How do you explain:

2 Peter 3:7
But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

...and:

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

 

[Truth7t7]

Matt. 24:35 is hyperbole, you can't take this scripture literally.

Matthew 24:35 below is a future literal fact.

Matthew 24:35KJV
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

This existing earth will be dissolved by the Lords fire in final judgment at his return.

Jesus Christ Has/Will Create A New Heaven And Earth, This Earth Will Pass Away.

Revelarion 21:1KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Isaiah 24:20KJV
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

2 Peter 3:3-13KJV
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Psalm 46:6KJV
The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earthmelted.

Psalm 97:5KJV
The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

In Love!

As 2 Peter 3 alone starts with scoffers and Jesus Second Advent, he talks about Noah's flood, and then in verse (7) states this heaven and earth are kept in store for fire in Judgment?

You really want to look at the several scriptures below, that depicts a literal, physical , earth being burned up as a spiritual metaphor, really?

Did Noah's flood actually happen, or was that a metaphor also?

This existing earth will be dissolved by the Lords fire in final judgment at his return.

Jesus Christ Has/Will Create A New Heaven And Earth, This Earth Will Pass Away.

Revelarion 21:1KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Isaiah 24:20KJV
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

2 Peter 3:3-13KJV
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Psalm 46:6KJV
The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earthmelted.

Psalm 97:5KJV
The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

I don’t know. You tell me because obviously I am torn. Do I deny the flood happened or that the earth will burn in fervent heat from His presence? No. I don’t deny it. Never said it wasn’t literal only that there is more there. First, the earth’s baptism of water. That of God preserved through the water baptism. Second, the earth baptism of Fire. We must also be born of water and receive the baptism of the Spirit(fire). This is where God takes a believer into perfection of HIS doing, His(God’s) work. Water first, then what is raised new is in Christ(Spirit). So yeah, as our ‘literal’ body is washed (cleansed) of unrighteousness and goes through fire; so also will the earth ...earth passes away as we also pass away but earth is raised by the power of God in glory. (A new Heaven and earth)-what we receive...a resurrected body with spirit.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Once again many attempt to force literal interpretations on that which is clearly symbolic. The greatest source of error in understanding the symbols of Revelation is a too literal interpretation. It is read as though it were a statement of facts instead of a statement of symbols.

The book of Revelation is a symbolic prophecy, and not a literal epistle. It is a book of “signs” (a statement of symbols, not of facts).

We understand from our Lord’s own statement to the Apostle John, that the book of Revelation is to be considered as a book of symbols.

Examine Rev 1:1 closely,

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, [even] the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John.”

“God sent and sign-i-fied this message (transmitted it in His own secret code language of signs, symbols, and visions to prevent any untimely disclosure of its mysteries) through His angel Jesus, the messenger of the covenant, unto His servant the Apostle John.”

Thus we are fully satisfied that the signs and symbols, contained therein are the rule, the literal being the exception only when unavoidable.

So it is in regards to Rev 21:1 and the “sea”.

In the Scriptures the word "sea" is used, not merely as a name for a body of water, but also symbolically, as representing lawless, restless, dissatisfied, discontented humanity. In His great prophecy (Luke 21:5-36) our Lord tells us that in the time of trouble, with which the kingdom of the Lord will be introduced, the sea and the waves will roar; and in Psa. 46:1-3, is pictured, that the symbolic mountains, or kingdoms, of earth will go down, overwhelmed by the symbolic sea, in an anarchistic storm.

When once the Messiah's Kingdom shall have brought order out of the present confusion, after it shall have established the world's interests upon a proper basis of equity, there will be "no more sea," in the sense that there will no longer be a restless, dissatisfied element amongst the masses of mankind.

Let he who has an ear understand.

Thank you for sharing. You said it well. ‘No more sea’. James spoke of one tossed like as a wave in the ocean. “Restless, dissatisfied element amongst the masses of mankind”. Gives new meaning to Jesus walking on the water.

 

[Harvest 1874]

God is Spirit. Why would man not want to see it from God’s view, instead of from man’s view? All man sees right now is a shadow where every thing reveals who created the shadow for man to see God. Jesus didn’t just choose random healings and casting out of devils and raising the dead. As God, He deliberately demonstrated in the physical what He(God) would do in the Spiritual. Which is why Jesus said ‘you will do greater things’ because the physical healings were only a demonstration of the power of the Spirit. It was for a season to fully demonstrate what God was going to do and is still doing. why do you keep saying the word is not Spirit but literal.
Are we not instructed to walk in the Spirit. Pray in the Spirit. But then you argue “I don't believe one must resort to 'spiritual' interpretation when wanting to explain the apparent contradictions.“

I’m sorry I was unable to address the first part of your query this morning, I only had time to address the second part of your comment concerning the “sea”, as I had to go to work, nevertheless this allowed me time to ponder your thoughts.

We know that the word of the Lord is spirit and truth, that is to say God's word is spirit in the sense of its being a power or influence. The words in the bible are more than simply ink marks upon a page they are the thoughts and the words of God.

Nevertheless there is a danger in going too far. Generally with most Christians the pendulum tends to swing to far one way or another, with some ascribing a literal interpretation to every word of God, while others ascribe a spiritual or symbolic significance to every word, this only leads to confusion and contradiction. I notice the two extremes in both yourself and in Truth7t7, you tend to spiritualize everything, while Truth7t7 attempts to impose a literal interpretation on everything, of course I don’t mean every single thing, but in general.

“The Bible has for centuries been a source of confusion to men everywhere. Many people have concluded that it cannot be a reliable source of information because so many contradictory theories claim to be based upon its contents. The Bible however, carefully studied, can be a consistent, reliable source of information.

There are five interlocking approaches to the study of the scriptures which if the fully utilized will greatly aid the student of God’s word and will result in Biblical interpretation void of self-imposed prejudice, preference and personal bias.

They are as follows:

1. Study by complete topical investigation.

2. Study of symbolic versus literal statement.

3. Study of time-frame placement of Scripture.

4. Study considering large and small context.

5. Study of typical-antitypical relationships.

Any one of these methods is helpful. No one of these methods is complete in itself.

Arranged below are three columns of Scriptures which contain the word “earth.” These samplings are purposely listed in three columns to point out the seeming contradictions. One column contains Scriptures which state that the earth will be destroyed. The second column contains texts which show that the earth will not be destroyed. The last column entries imply that there will be a new earth. Read these texts before proceeding:

EARTH DESTROYED EARTH REMAINS NEW EARTH

Matt 24:35 Matt 6:10 2 Pet 3:13

Heb 1:10, 11 Eccl 1:4 Rev 21:1

Zep 3:8 Matt 5:5

Isa 45:18

Psa 104:5

It is clear that a literal interpretation of the foregoing texts about the earth results only in confusion and contradiction. When our first method of study, topical study by itself fells to clear up the interpretation, it becomes necessary to discover the presence of symbolic meaning in the words being used. How is this done?

Perhaps the first test is to apply the obvious possibilities to all of the texts involved. In this case (with the word earth), suppose:

In every instance where the word “earth” is used suggesting good things it must be symbolic of heaven.

In every instance where the word “earth” is used suggesting bad things it must be literal and really mean the earth. (Which appears to be how our friend Truth7t7 seems to interpret it)

If this doesn’t work (and it doesn’t), try the opposite:

In every instance where the word “earth” is used suggesting good things it must be literal and really mean the earth.

If every instance where the word “earth” is used suggesting bad things it must be symbolic and must mean something else.

This does work. Then, a diligent comparison of prophetic texts containing the word “earth” used symbolically reveals that it’s symbolic meaning is “the political-social order.”

Once the correct symbolism is found, it always works. This is, indeed, a comforting reassurance of the accuracy of interpretation.

To show the richness of the information found by utilization of proper symbolism's, it will be beneficial to examine 2 Peter 3 once again as it makes multiple use of this word “earth.”

In this chapter, Peter makes reference to: the “world that then was” (vs. 6) “the heavens and the earth which are now” (vs. 7), and “a new heavens and a new earth wherein dwells righteousness” (vs. 13).

Peter here introduces words which we have not yet considered, and the careful student will submit these words — world, heaven, fire — also to exhaustive topical investigation.

Our conclusions, based on the topical and symbolic study methods, clarify this chapter easily:

The “world (the political-social order) that then was (before the flood) perished” (But the literal earth itself remained.) Peter, as he continues, wishes to differentiate between rulers and the ruled and, hence, divides the symbolic “world” into “heaven” (the ruling powers) and “earth” (the social order). Thus “the heavens and the earth (the entire political-social arrangement) which are now (ever since the flood) are reserved unto fire (destruction — of the order, not the people: the earth still remains). Nevertheless, we, according to His promise, look for a new heavens (a new government ruled by Christ) and a new earth (a new social arrangement) wherein dwells righteousness.” 2 Peter 3:6, 7, 13

Now (with the proper symbols to eradicate contradictions) the promises of the Bible relative to the earth take on new meaning:

The meek shall inherit the earth. (Matt 5:5)

Thy will be done in earth even as it is in heaven. (Matt 6:10)

On earth peace, good will toward men. (Luke 2:14)

The earth abides forever. (Eccl 1:4)

The Bible tells a comprehensive picture without contradiction. Though it seemed to say both that the earth would be destroyed and that the earth would not be destroyed, a careful study shows that it was cleverly telling a consistent story. It was using the kind of symbolism that President Woodrow Wilson used during World War I when he stated, “The world is on fire!” (Not literally, but symbolically) What he meant was easily understood. The Bible symbolism is just as obvious if it is not approached with preconceptions.

Excerpts taken from “How to study the Bible and have it make Sense”

 

[Truth7t7]

To show the richness of the information found by utilization of proper symbolism's, it will be beneficial to examine 2 Peter 3 once again as it makes multiple use of this word “earth.”

In this chapter, Peter makes reference to: the “world that then was” (vs. 6) “the heavens and the earth which are now” (vs. 7), and “a new heavens and a new earth wherein dwells righteousness” (vs. 13).

Peter here introduces words which we have not yet considered, and the careful student will submit these words — world, heaven, fire — also to exhaustive topical investigation.

Our conclusions, based on the topical and symbolic study methods, clarify this chapter easily:

The “world (the political-social order) that then was (before the flood) perished” (But the literal earth itself remained.) Peter, as he continues, wishes to differentiate between rulers and the ruled and, hence, divides the symbolic “world” into “heaven” (the ruling powers) and “earth” (the social order). Thus “the heavens and the earth (the entire political-social arrangement) which are now (ever since the flood) are reserved unto fire (destruction — of the order, not the people: the earth still remains). Nevertheless, we, according to His promise, look for a new heavens (a new government ruled by Christ) and a new earth (a new social arrangement) wherein dwells righteousness.” 2 Peter 3:6, 7, 13

Now (with the proper symbols to eradicate contradictions) the promises of the Bible relative to the earth take on new meaning:

The meek shall inherit the earth. (Matt 5:5)

Thy will be done in earth even as it is in heaven. (Matt 6:10)

On earth peace, good will toward men. (Luke 2:14)

The earth abides forever. (Eccl 1:4)

The Bible tells a comprehensive picture without contradiction. Though it seemed to say both that the earth would be destroyed and that the earth would not be destroyed, a careful study shows that it was cleverly telling a consistent story. It was using the kind of symbolism that President Woodrow Wilson used during World War I when he stated, “The world is on fire!” (Not literally, but symbolically) What he meant was easily understood. The Bible symbolism is just as obvious if it is not approached with preconceptions.

Excerpts taken from “How to study the Bible and have it make Sense”

You give your private interpretation of 2 Peter 3:3-13 stating the earth represents "Social Political Order" and this order will be destroyed and not the physical earth?

100% error in my opinion, as the previous verse denotes Noah's Flood, that happened in a literal sense.

God clearly states the earth will be dissolved by fire, and verse 13 states we are to look for the new creation in the New Heaven And Earth, This Present Has Passed Away.

You disregard the several other verses below that show the literal earths destruction to be true also.

As 2 Peter 3 alone starts with scoffers and Jesus Second Advent, he talks about Noah's flood, and then in verse (7) states this heaven and earth are kept in store for fire in Judgment?

This existing earth will be dissolved by the Lords fire in final judgment at his return.

Jesus Christ Has/Will Create A New Heaven And Earth, This Earth Will Pass Away.

Revelarion 21:1KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Isaiah 24:20KJV
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

2 Peter 3:3-13KJV
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Psalm 46:6KJV
The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earthmelted.

Psalm 97:5KJV
The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Thank you for sharing. You said it well. ‘No more sea’. James spoke of one tossed like as a wave in the ocean. “Restless, dissatisfied element amongst the masses of mankind”. Gives new meaning to Jesus walking on the water.

Yes it does, does it not?

It gives meaning to the words of the Lord when on the Sea of Galilee he rebuked the winds and the waves, “And he arose and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, PEACE BE STILL! And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.”--Mark 4:39

Likewise will be the words of the Father following the Battle of the Great Day of God Almighty, the great time of trouble.

"The great time of trouble, which follows closely the second coming of Christ, will be an experience the like of which never was since there was a nation (Dan 12:1) In one figure the Scriptures liken it to a great tidal wave, carrying the mountains into the midst of the sea (Psa 46). This pictures the governments of earth as being overwhelmed, swallowed up, by the raging sea of human passion when the masses become fully aroused. In another figure it is depicted as a mighty ‘whirlwind’ sweeping everything before it. In a third figure it is compared to the letting loose of the ‘four winds of the heavens’; in still another picture it is a great ‘fire’ (Isa 66:15; Jer 4:13 23:19 20,30:23,24; 1 Kings 19:11,12; Rev 7:1- 3; Dan 7:2; Zeph. 3:8, etc.). The whole earth is to be devoured by the fire of God’s jealousy, the fire of God’s righteous anger. The fire of God’s anger no more means a literal fire than does the expression a fiery horse. It is the fire of God’s wrath against sin that is being manifested at this time and will continue."

We read in the psalms of the tremendous power of God to still the Time of Trouble, the very same power that Jesus used to quickly quiet the raging waters of Galilee:

“O Lord God of hosts, Who is mighty like You, O Lord? Your faithfulness also surrounds you. You rule the raging of the sea; When its waves rise, YOU STILL THEM.”--Psa 89:8, 9

“…O God of our salvation, You who are the confidence of all the ends of the earth, And of the far-off seas; Who established the mountains by His strength, Being clothed with power; You who still the noise of the seas, The noise of their waves, And the tumult of the peoples..”--Psa 65:5-7

"The nations raged, the kingdoms were moved; He (God) uttered his voice, the earth melted (organized society as it presently exist dissolved)." Psa 46:6

As Jesus said to the troubled sea, “PEACE BE STILL!” God will proclaim to a troubled world, in the words of Psa 46:10, “Be still, and know that I am God.”

The psalmist said, “Then they cry out to the Lord in their trouble, And He brings them out of their distresses. He calms the storm, So that its waves are still. Then they are glad because they are quiet; So He guides them to their desired haven.” (Psa 107:28-30)

What is the world's desired haven? We read:

“For thus says the Lord of hosts: ‘Once more (it is a little while) I will shake heaven and earth, the sea and dry land; and I will shake all nations, and they shall come to the Desire of All Nations, and I will fill this temple with glory,’ says the Lord of hosts.”--Haggai 2:6, 7

The “desired haven” is “the desire of all nations.” It is the Kingdom of God that is desired. The world earnestly desires it without knowing exactly what it is and how it will come. All they know is that they are suffering and want relief from their troubles—from sickness, sorrow, sighing, pain and death; from poverty, hunger, tyranny and (the anarchy of the great time of trouble). Paul describes this time:

“For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.” “For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God (the completion of the Church).” Rom 8:22, 19

Yes, they will finally come to their desired haven of rest when the sons of God, Christ and the church, are revealed in kingdom power and glory. Then will be fulfilled the prophecy of Rev 21:1, “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea”—no more restless and discontented masses of humanity.

 

[Harvest 1874]

You give your private interpretation of 2 Peter 3:3-13 stating the earth represents "Social Political Order" and this order will be destroyed and not the physical earth?

100% error in my opinion, as the previous verse denotes Noah's Flood, that happened in a literal sense.

God clearly states the earth will be dissolved by fire, and verse 13 states we are to look for the new creation in the New Heaven And Earth, This Present Has Passed Away.

You disregard the several other verses below that show the literal earths destruction to be true also.

As 2 Peter 3 alone starts with scoffers and Jesus Second Advent, he talks about Noah's flood, and then in verse (7) states this heaven and earth are kept in store for fire in Judgment?

This existing earth will be dissolved by the Lords fire in final judgment at his return.

Jesus Christ Has/Will Create A New Heaven And Earth, This Earth Will Pass Away.

Revelarion 21:1KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Isaiah 24:20KJV
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

2 Peter 3:3-13KJV
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Psalm 46:6KJV
The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earthmelted.

Psalm 97:5KJV
The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Once again you have not provided one verse which states that the LITERAL earth is to be destroy, your whole argument is based on your own interpretation of various texts which are clearly symbolic in nature, but which you believe to be literal, of course you don't see any of this because you are blinded by your own preconceived ideas as to what is truly being stated.

 

[Truth7t7]

Once again you have not provided one verse which states that the LITERAL earth is to be destroy, your whole argument is based on your own interpretation of various texts which are clearly symbolic in nature, but which you believe to be literal, of course you don't see any of this because you are blinded by your own preconceived ideas as to what is truly being stated.

Just like the writings of Genesis 19, and the firey destruction of Sodom And Gomorrah.

I guess Luke 17:29-30 is just another piece of symbolic allegory

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Matt. 24:35 is hyperbole, you can't take this scripture literally.

It was not quoted to represent a literal statement.

 

[Harvest 1874]

You give your private interpretation of 2 Peter 3:3-13 stating the earth represents "Social Political Order" and this order will be destroyed and not the physical earth?

100% error in my opinion, as the previous verse denotes Noah's Flood, that happened in a literal sense.

Who's denying the literal flood? Yes there was a literal flood and the world (the present order then in existence) passed away in the flood, now did the physical earth pass away as well?, Heavens No! for not soon after when the waters receded the earth was still there, and Noah and his family disembarked the Ark.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I’m sorry I was unable to address the first part of your query this morning, I only had time to address the second part of your comment concerning the “sea”, as I had to go to work, nevertheless this allowed me time to ponder your thoughts.

We know that the word of the Lord is spirit and truth, that is to say God's word is spirit in the sense of its being a power or influence. The words in the bible are more than simply ink marks upon a page they are the thoughts and the words of God.

Nevertheless there is a danger in going too far. Generally with most Christians the pendulum tends to swing to far one way or another, with some ascribing a literal interpretation to every word of God, while others ascribe a spiritual or symbolic significance to every word, this only leads to confusion and contradiction. I notice the two extremes in both yourself and in Truth7t7, you tend to spiritualize everything, while Truth7t7 attempts to impose a literal interpretation on everything, of course I don’t mean every single thing, but in general.

“The Bible has for centuries been a source of confusion to men everywhere. Many people have concluded that it cannot be a reliable source of information because so many contradictory theories claim to be based upon its contents. The Bible however, carefully studied, can be a consistent, reliable source of information.

There are five interlocking approaches to the study of the scriptures which if the fully utilized will greatly aid the student of God’s word and will result in Biblical interpretation void of self-imposed prejudice, preference and personal bias.

They are as follows:

1. Study by complete topical investigation.

2. Study of symbolic versus literal statement.

3. Study of time-frame placement of Scripture.

4. Study considering large and small context.

5. Study of typical-antitypical relationships.

Any one of these methods is helpful. No one of these methods is complete in itself.

Arranged below are three columns of Scriptures which contain the word “earth.” These samplings are purposely listed in three columns to point out the seeming contradictions. One column contains Scriptures which state that the earth will be destroyed. The second column contains texts which show that the earth will not be destroyed. The last column entries imply that there will be a new earth. Read these texts before proceeding:

EARTH DESTROYED EARTH REMAINS NEW EARTH

Matt 24:35 Matt 6:10 2 Pet 3:13

Heb 1:10, 11 Eccl 1:4 Rev 21:1

Zep 3:8 Matt 5:5

Isa 45:18

Psa 104:5

It is clear that a literal interpretation of the foregoing texts about the earth results only in confusion and contradiction. When our first method of study, topical study by itself fells to clear up the interpretation, it becomes necessary to discover the presence of symbolic meaning in the words being used. How is this done?

Perhaps the first test is to apply the obvious possibilities to all of the texts involved. In this case (with the word earth), suppose:

In every instance where the word “earth” is used suggesting good things it must be symbolic of heaven.

In every instance where the word “earth” is used suggesting bad things it must be literal and really mean the earth. (Which appears to be how our friend Truth7t7 seems to interpret it)

If this doesn’t work (and it doesn’t), try the opposite:

In every instance where the word “earth” is used suggesting good things it must be literal and really mean the earth.

If every instance where the word “earth” is used suggesting bad things it must be symbolic and must mean something else.

This does work. Then, a diligent comparison of prophetic texts containing the word “earth” used symbolically reveals that it’s symbolic meaning is “the political-social order.”

Once the correct symbolism is found, it always works. This is, indeed, a comforting reassurance of the accuracy of interpretation.

To show the richness of the information found by utilization of proper symbolism's, it will be beneficial to examine 2 Peter 3 once again as it makes multiple use of this word “earth.”

In this chapter, Peter makes reference to: the “world that then was” (vs. 6) “the heavens and the earth which are now” (vs. 7), and “a new heavens and a new earth wherein dwells righteousness” (vs. 13).

Peter here introduces words which we have not yet considered, and the careful student will submit these words — world, heaven, fire — also to exhaustive topical investigation.

Our conclusions, based on the topical and symbolic study methods, clarify this chapter easily:

The “world (the political-social order) that then was (before the flood) perished” (But the literal earth itself remained.) Peter, as he continues, wishes to differentiate between rulers and the ruled and, hence, divides the symbolic “world” into “heaven” (the ruling powers) and “earth” (the social order). Thus “the heavens and the earth (the entire political-social arrangement) which are now (ever since the flood) are reserved unto fire (destruction — of the order, not the people: the earth still remains). Nevertheless, we, according to His promise, look for a new heavens (a new government ruled by Christ) and a new earth (a new social arrangement) wherein dwells righteousness.” 2 Peter 3:6, 7, 13

Now (with the proper symbols to eradicate contradictions) the promises of the Bible relative to the earth take on new meaning:

The meek shall inherit the earth. (Matt 5:5)

Thy will be done in earth even as it is in heaven. (Matt 6:10)

On earth peace, good will toward men. (Luke 2:14)

The earth abides forever. (Eccl 1:4)

The Bible tells a comprehensive picture without contradiction. Though it seemed to say both that the earth would be destroyed and that the earth would not be destroyed, a careful study shows that it was cleverly telling a consistent story. It was using the kind of symbolism that President Woodrow Wilson used during World War I when he stated, “The world is on fire!” (Not literally, but symbolically) What he meant was easily understood. The Bible symbolism is just as obvious if it is not approached with preconceptions.

Excerpts taken from “How to study the Bible and have it make Sense”

First, let me say it does not offend me in anyway for you to say I spiritualize everything. It is not the first time I have been told that. I do realize and can accept sometimes I slide way off in the wrong direction and it takes others like you to say so. So I appreciate your observation and your almost warning to not go too far in the wrong direction. That being said. I will print out your responses and study them. Here is the problem. I over spiritualize but it is effortless. There is no struggle. The headaches I usually get from studying do not happen. It is as natural and as comfortable as breathing. I don’t want to shut it off or sneer on a gift it seems God has given when there is absolutely no way I could learn it through the labour of looking it all up, cross referencing in an concordance and all that. It seems effortless for you to study and learn the way you do. I can’t learn that way. I just can’t. If any truth has been given to me, He put it there.

 

[verzanumi24]

God is love, the scriptures Tell us. If you think upon that word, It's reasonable to conclude that God loves life so much that at some point he decided to share life with others thus, creation was brought into existence. First the intelligent Angels were brought into existence then the universe, including Earth and mankind. Since God is love and he wanted to share life with intelligent creatures (Angels, Human) it would be reasonable the life that God wanted for them is eternal life, so Heaven would b the Angels eternal home, just as Earth is mankind Eternal home.
So many today believe that because Satan rebelled and influenced others to follow him (Angels & Humans) that God abandoned his original plan, but what I see is that God still wants Angels living in Heaven for Eternity and God made a way to save mankind, God doesn't want mankind to pass out of existence and while it's true God created his intelligent creatures with free will, God never gave them free will to abuse it. That's why God warned Adam of the consequences of disobedience, didn't want Adam to die, he wanted him to live forever, that's how much God loved his creation, mankind.

You got that right. I will only add by saying, God not only love life, but He also loves to rule, so He made human beings like Himself, so He can enjoy watching them rule the way He does. God created the universe for His children to have their own place to rule. We can't rule in Heaven, because that is God's territory. Our home will also be the Earth, but God's children will exercise their right to rule throughtout the universe.....this is why God created countless
galaxies with uncountable plants.....those plants will be populated by various life forms whom God's children will create.

 

[Truth7t7]

You got that right. I will only add by saying, God not only love life, but He also loves to rule, so He made human beings like Himself, so He can enjoy watching them rule the way He does. God created the universe for His children to have their own place to rule. We can't rule in Heaven, because that is God's territory. Our home will also be the Earth, but God's children will exercise their right to rule throughtout the universe.....this is why God created countless
galaxies with uncountable plants.....those plants will be populated by various life forms whom God's children will create.

God's children will rule planets and create life forms?

What part of the Holy Bible is that in?

Sounds like the book of Mormon to me?

 

[verzanumi24]

God's children will rule planets and create life forms?

What part of the Holy Bible is that in?

Sounds like the book of Mormon to me?

Why do you think God created space and decked it with galaxies? Have you never read where it say in the Bible that when Jesus returns to the Earth, the increase of the government will never end?

Isaiah 9:6-7 (KJV)
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Not only will the government never end, but the increase of that government will not end or stop. For that to happen, it means that the government of God have to extend beyond the Earth. Scientist have discovered that the universe is not only expanding, but it's speeding up as it expand. God have to give the universe a head start, because when human beings fully realize whom they are and are glorified, the universe will hardly be able to keep up.


Do you know that eternal life is better than immortal life? Eternal life is what human beings are being given. Eternal life is uncreated life....it's the very life that God has.....unlimited, which means one can create life, but angels only have immortal life.

 

[Harvest 1874]

First, let me say it does not offend me in anyway for you to say I spiritualize everything. It is not the first time I have been told that. I do realize and can accept sometimes I slide way off in the wrong direction and it takes others like you to say so. So I appreciate your observation and your almost warning to not go too far in the wrong direction. That being said. I will print out your responses and study them. Here is the problem. I over spiritualize but it is effortless. There is no struggle. The headaches I usually get from studying do not happen. It is as natural and as comfortable as breathing. I don’t want to shut it off or sneer on a gift it seems God has given when there is absolutely no way I could learn it through the labour of looking it all up, cross referencing in an concordance and all that. It seems effortless for you to study and learn the way you do. I can’t learn that way. I just can’t. If any truth has been given to me, He put it there.

I am glad you see it that way as it was never my intention to offend you in anyway. As it is written, ALL scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction… that the man (or woman) of God may be perfect (thoroughly complete). 2 Tim 3:17 It’s only when pride steps in and we stop accepting God’s reproofs and corrections that we are lost. It is important to remain meek (teachable) and humble (willing to acknowledge our mistakes or where we may have gone astray) so that we can continue to be taught of the Lord.

Now as far as studying goes keep in mind that God is only a rewarder of those who diligently seek him that we are to seek for the truths of his word as we would for hidden treasure. Now you know that treasure is generally not found simply lying upon the surface, but requires a little effort (a little digging) to unearth so it is with the “deep things” of the word of God, if you truly wish to understand it requires a little effort, but you have not only the assistance of the Lord through his holy spirit, but likewise the aid and support of the brethren here, you have but to ask. Of course this does not mean that any will have the exact answer you are looking for, but we will still do our best if we can.

Please don’t get the idea that studying comes effortlessly to me, sometimes it takes me all day just to compile my thoughts and notes just to respond to one good comment, it is for this reason alone that I can’t respond to more comments even though I wish I could. There are a lot of interesting subjects being put forth on this forum, but time permits me to respond only to such as give evidence that they are truly hungering and thirsting after truth, not simply wishing to present a subject so as to argue or debate it.