Earth, Created to stand forever

[verzanumi24]

At this present time, there are many believers in heaven. And once John was taken up to heaven to view other future things to occur, the Church was present in heaven as represented by the 24 elders. (Rev. 4:4-5,10-11).

Stranger

Where did you get the idea that these are human beings in Heaven?


All those who in Christ are still dead and will only be resurrected when Jesus returns.


1 Thessalonians 4:13-16 (KJV)
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


No one has assended into Heaven other than Jesus

John 3:13 (KJV)
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


Even David, a man after God's own heart is dead and buried.


Acts 2:29 (CSBBible)
29 "Brothers and sisters, I can confidently speak to you about the patriarch David: He is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.


There is not one single single scripture saying anyone who has died is alive in Heaven.

 

[Stranger]

I don't have to. God's exist infinitely beyond any and everything that exist. There is no existance outside of God, and God doesn't exist in anything other then Himself.

Sounds real deep. But it only means you have no answer.

Stranger

 

[Josho]

Praise Jesus for His creation, Praise Jesus for the New Jerusalem, wooohoooooo, Hallelujah!!!

 

[Stranger]

Where did you get the idea that these are human beings in Heaven?


All those who in Christ are still dead and will only be resurrected when Jesus returns.


1 Thessalonians 4:13-16 (KJV)
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


No one has assended into Heaven other than Jesus

John 3:13 (KJV)
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


Even David, a man after God's own heart is dead and buried.


Acts 2:29 (CSBBible)
29 "Brothers and sisters, I can confidently speak to you about the patriarch David: He is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.


There is not one single single scripture saying anyone who has died is alive in Heaven.

Well, you just saw one in (Rev. 19:10)

Because Jesus is in heaven, so are the believers. (2 Cor. 5:8) "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

The purpose of the resurrection of the believers is to get their glorified bodies. When we die we go to be with the Lord. And the Lord is in Heaven.

Stranger

 

[epostle1]

The sun will go nova in a few billion years, vaporizing the earth. There is plenty of time to get groceries.

 

[verzanumi24]

Well, you just saw one in (Rev. 19:10)

Because Jesus is in heaven, so are the believers. (2 Cor. 5:8) "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

The purpose of the resurrection of the believers is to get their glorified bodies. When we die we go to be with the Lord. And the Lord is in Heaven.

Stranger

You assume the one mentioned in Revelation 19:10 is a human being. And when one is absent from the body means the person is dead. Notice that 2 Corinthians doesn't say anything about going to Heaven, to be with the Lord. All human beings when they die, their spirit returns back to God.


Ecclesiastes 12:7 (ESV)
7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.


As I have said before, which you keep ignoring is if one is still alive in Heaven, then there would be no reason the resurrection from the dead.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 (ESV)
16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

Dead means dead, it doesn't mean to be alive in Heaven.

 

[verzanumi24]

Sounds real deep. But it only means you have no answer.

Stranger

I just did, you just refuse to accept the truth because it conflicts with your misunderstanding.

 

[Stranger]

You assume the one mentioned in Revelation 19:10 is a human being. And when one is absent from the body means the person is dead. Notice that 2 Corinthians doesn't say anything about going to Heaven, to be with the Lord. All human beings when they die, their spirit returns back to God.


Ecclesiastes 12:7 (ESV)
7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.


As I have said before, which you keep ignoring is if one is still alive in Heaven, then there would be no reason the resurrection from the dead.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 (ESV)
16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

Dead means dead, it doesn't mean to be alive in Heaven.

Concerning (Rev. 19:10), I assume with good reason.

Concerning (2 Cor. 5:6-8) the inference is clear. "Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord...willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." Jesus Christ is in Heaven. Thus when believers in Christ die, the go to be with the Lord in Heaven.

When a human being dies, his spirit goes where God directs it to go. They don't all go to be with the Lord.

Concerning (Ecc. 12:7), yes the body goes to dust, and the spirit returns to God. But, not all go to Heaven.

And I have to keep telling you that the resurrection pertains to getting the body back. Thus the resurrection is necessary.

Death is simply separation. Not annihilation. Spiritual death is separation of the spirit from God. Physical death is separation of the spirit from the body. You just showed in (Ecc. 12:7) that the spirit goes back to God.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

I just did, you just refuse to accept the truth because it conflicts with your misunderstanding.

No, what you are proposing conflicts with the truth. You hold to a very false anti-christian doctrine which you try and use Scripture to support. But it doesn't. Thus I most certainly refuse to accept what you say.

Stranger

 

[verzanumi24]

Concerning (Rev. 19:10), I assume with good reason.

Concerning (2 Cor. 5:6-8) the inference is clear. "Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord...willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." Jesus Christ is in Heaven. Thus when believers in Christ die, the go to be with the Lord in Heaven.

When a human being dies, his spirit goes where God directs it to go. They don't all go to be with the Lord.

Concerning (Ecc. 12:7), yes the body goes to dust, and the spirit returns to God. But, not all go to Heaven.

And I have to keep telling you that the resurrection pertains to getting the body back. Thus the resurrection is necessary.

Death is simply separation. Not annihilation. Spiritual death is separation of the spirit from God. Physical death is separation of the spirit from the body. You just showed in (Ecc. 12:7) that the spirit goes back to God.

Stranger

I'm done with you from here on.

 

[Stranger]

I'm done with you from here on.

Promises, promises.

But...I am not done.

Stranger

 

[Enoch111]

Scripture acknowledges that even the earth will pass eventually

This is incorrect.

The earth (or more precisely the surface of the earth) will be totally burned up supernaturally, in order to be thoroughly cleansed. Then the New Heavens and the New Earth will be established in righteousness. So the earth will NOT pass eventually but will be an eternal and sinless earth.

 

[bbyrd009]

This is incorrect.

The earth (or more precisely the surface of the earth) will be totally burned up supernaturally, in order to be thoroughly cleansed. Then the New Heavens and the New Earth will be established in righteousness. So the earth will NOT pass eventually but will be an eternal and sinless earth.

yes ok ty. That is a popular theory i guess.

10But the Day of the Lordp will come like a thief;q, r on that day the heavens will pass aways with a loud noise, the elements will burn and be dissolved,t and the earth and the works on it will be disclosed.u
11Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, it is clear what sort of people you should be in holy conduct and godliness
12as you wait for and earnestly desire the comingv of the day of God.w The heavens will be on fire and be dissolved because of it, and the elements will melt with the heat.
13But based on His promise, we wait for the new heavens and a new earth,x where righteousness will dwell.

and the text even appears to justify it, yes.
I suspect that Peter is juxtaposing a spiritual event with a physical one here, mostly bc the alt forces a rapture, and the curious repetition of elements being dissolved suggests a dialectic line of thought there, but i certainly don't know. We do know the sun will eventually die a natural death, in about 5 billion years, and the passage seemed to be referring to that imo.

 

[twinc]

yes ok ty. That is a popular theory i guess.

10But the Day of the Lordp will come like a thief;q, r on that day the heavens will pass aways with a loud noise, the elements will burn and be dissolved,t and the earth and the works on it will be disclosed.u
11Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, it is clear what sort of people you should be in holy conduct and godliness
12as you wait for and earnestly desire the comingv of the day of God.w The heavens will be on fire and be dissolved because of it, and the elements will melt with the heat.
13But based on His promise, we wait for the new heavens and a new earth,x where righteousness will dwell.

and the text even appears to justify it, yes.
I suspect that Peter is juxtaposing a spiritual event with a physical one here, mostly bc the alt forces a rapture, and the curious repetition of elements being dissolved suggests a dialectic line of thought there, but i certainly don't know. We do know the sun will eventually die a natural death, in about 5 billion years, and the passage seemed to be referring to that imo.

Peter got his info from Jesus[Mk 24:35] - twinc

 

[bbyrd009]

Peter got his info from Jesus[Mk 24:35] - twinc

Must be in Matthew, you mean? Interesting to note that neither one of those "earths" are "erets."
so the sense of the vv is more like "the lay of the land will change," not "the globe will be gone" i guess?
http://biblehub.com/greek/1093.htm

 

[twinc]

Must be in Matthew, you mean? Interesting to note that neither one of those "earths" are "erets."
so the sense of the vv is more like "the lay of the land will change," not "the globe will be gone" i guess?
http://biblehub.com/greek/1093.htm

this is from your imagination as you go along[the lay of the land will change]it is not in the bible but that the globe will be gone is - twinc

 

[bbyrd009]

this is from your imagination as you go along[the lay of the land will change]it is not in the bible but that the globe will be gone is - twinc

that would virtually have to be Erets, i think. "Pass away" is also a sketchy interpretation, Strong's Greek: 3928. παρέρχομαι (parerchomai) -- to pass by, to come to, it could as easily say "heaven and earth will be neglected, but my words will never be"

 

[Truth7t7]

that would virtually have to be Erets, i think. "Pass away" is also a sketchy interpretation, Strong's Greek: 3928. παρέρχομαι (parerchomai) -- to pass by, to come to, it could as easily say "heaven and earth will be neglected, but my words will never be"

Your a translator in Greek And Hebrew?

 

[bbyrd009]

Your a translator in Greek And Hebrew?

to you, yes, but you can certainly go verify that somewhere else too, i don't trust Strong's myself

 

[Truth7t7]

to you, yes, but you can certainly go verify that somewhere else too, i don't trust Strong's myself

Where did you attend college, do you have your Thd. Doctorate?