Ecstasy

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

SkyWriting

Active Member
May 19, 2019
403
162
43
Milwaukee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yet, it has never happened before or since. Not even once.

That may well be. Timing is often God's miracle. He has infinite time to plan and execute the orbit of each electron in the Cosmos.

Hebrews 1:3
He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.
 

Willie T

Heaven Sent
Staff member
Sep 14, 2017
5,869
7,426
113
St. Petersburg Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That may well be. Timing is often God's miracle. He has infinite time to plan and execute the orbit of each electron in the Cosmos.

Hebrews 1:3
He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.
So, are you trying to say that the supernatural acts attributed to God are things that could, and probably eventually will just "naturally" occur sometime or another, and that God just arranges to have whatever will eventually happen anyway coincide with "rescues" or "appearances" that fit into the narrative He has scheduled for the world?
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,476
21,157
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
@amadeus @Willie T

2 Sam 6 14 And David danced before the Lord with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.
.... Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the Lord; and she despised him in her heart.
And they brought in the ark of the Lord, and set it in his place, in the midst of the tabernacle that David had pitched for it: and David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the Lord
."

Not very "orderly or quiet!!" :D
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,190
2,392
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is important, for the sake of spirituality, that we divide the man into three parts… Physical, Spiritual, and Intellectual. There have been a great many exhorters who possessed not a great physique or intelligence, but were great hearted people. And such great heart made for great and profitable ministry. If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2) And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma, the sun is the visible form of E/c2
Mental E/c2 - Our thinking can produce creativeness, light, and good things
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

The Natural E/c2 in the form of mass produces a gravity that attracts other objects
The Intellectual E/c2 produces a gravity that draws us to study
The Spiritual E/c2 also has a gravity that draws and makes religion attractive

The Spiritual light and energies are what the exhorter possesses to the greater degree. As light is the opposite of darkness so there are also dark spiritual energies as well....

Darkness - The opposite of energy and light would be absolute zero (Z) and darkness (d). Spiritually, this would generate absolute zero (Z) – Laziness, coldness, and hatred / darkness (d) – Fear, depression, greed, and sorrow.

Emotions are activity that happens with the interactions of light and darkness. Sorrowful events, such as what causes depression and joy can make us emotional. Joyful events such as what causes light, as when a favorite team wins, can cause us to get emotional. So the emotional tears can be results of the interaction with light or darkness, pertaining to the event. But... If there is no spiritual light or darkness there is also no emotion.

Spirituality therefore is not emotion, but can make us emotional. There are some people, even Christians, who shy away from what they label emotional. But, spirituality will make one emotional and it can encourage intellectual thought as well. So we have three levels that cause ecstasy....

Light - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)
The Flesh - Ecstasy of the earthly variety
Darkness - Absolute Zero (Z) – Laziness, coldness, and hatred / darkness (d) – Fear, depression, greed, and sorrow.

I would say that light, flesh, and darkness can produce an ecstasy, but of much different spiritual sensations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,190
2,392
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.- Isaiah 50:10

There are, sad to say, many Christians who walk in darkness and whatever light they possess is of a strange variety.

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. - 1 John 1:5
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is important, for the sake of spirituality, that we divide the man into three parts… Physical, Spiritual, and Intellectual. There have been a great many exhorters who possessed not a great physique or intelligence, but were great hearted people. And such great heart made for great and profitable ministry. If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2) And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma, the sun is the visible form of E/c2
Mental E/c2 - Our thinking can produce creativeness, light, and good things
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

The Natural E/c2 in the form of mass produces a gravity that attracts other objects
The Intellectual E/c2 produces a gravity that draws us to study
The Spiritual E/c2 also has a gravity that draws and makes religion attractive

The Spiritual light and energies are what the exhorter possesses to the greater degree. As light is the opposite of darkness so there are also dark spiritual energies as well....

Darkness - The opposite of energy and light would be absolute zero (Z) and darkness (d). Spiritually, this would generate absolute zero (Z) – Laziness, coldness, and hatred / darkness (d) – Fear, depression, greed, and sorrow.

Emotions are activity that happens with the interactions of light and darkness. Sorrowful events, such as what causes depression and joy can make us emotional. Joyful events such as what causes light, as when a favorite team wins, can cause us to get emotional. So the emotional tears can be results of the interaction with light or darkness, pertaining to the event. But... If there is no spiritual light or darkness there is also no emotion.

Spirituality therefore is not emotion, but can make us emotional. There are some people, even Christians, who shy away from what they label emotional. But, spirituality will make one emotional and it can encourage intellectual thought as well. So we have three levels that cause ecstasy....

Light - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)
The Flesh - Ecstasy of the earthly variety
Darkness - Absolute Zero (Z) – Laziness, coldness, and hatred / darkness (d) – Fear, depression, greed, and sorrow.

I would say that light, flesh, and darkness can produce an ecstasy, but of much different spiritual sensations.
Body, Soul and Spirit
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,190
2,392
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is important, for the sake of spirituality, that we divide the man into three parts… Physical, Spiritual, and Intellectual. There have been a great many exhorters who possessed not a great physique or intelligence, but were great hearted people. And such great heart made for great and profitable ministry. If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2) And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma, the sun is the visible form of E/c2
Mental E/c2 - Our thinking can produce creativeness, light, and good things
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

The Natural E/c2 in the form of mass produces a gravity that attracts other objects
The Intellectual E/c2 produces a gravity that draws us to study
The Spiritual E/c2 also has a gravity that draws and makes religion attractive

The Spiritual light and energies are what the exhorter possesses to the greater degree. As light is the opposite of darkness so there are also dark spiritual energies as well....

Darkness - The opposite of energy and light would be absolute zero (Z) and darkness (d). Spiritually, this would generate absolute zero (Z) – Laziness, coldness, and hatred / darkness (d) – Fear, depression, greed, and sorrow.

Emotions are activity that happens with the interactions of light and darkness. Sorrowful events, such as what causes depression and joy can make us emotional. Joyful events such as what causes light, as when a favorite team wins, can cause us to get emotional. So the emotional tears can be results of the interaction with light or darkness, pertaining to the event. But... If there is no spiritual light or darkness there is also no emotion.

Spirituality therefore is not emotion, but can make us emotional. There are some people, even Christians, who shy away from what they label emotional. But, spirituality will make one emotional and it can encourage intellectual thought as well. So we have three levels that cause ecstasy....

Light - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)
The Flesh - Ecstasy of the earthly variety
Darkness - Absolute Zero (Z) – Laziness, coldness, and hatred / darkness (d) – Fear, depression, greed, and sorrow.

I would say that light, flesh, and darkness can produce an ecstasy, but of much different spiritual sensations.


Light - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)
The Flesh - Ecstasy of the earthly variety
Darkness - Absolute Zero (Z) – Laziness, coldness, and hatred / darkness (d) – Fear, depression, greed, and sorrow.

Arguing religion can produce an ecstasy of strange spiritual variety as ones spirit puffs up in ego because he thinks he is right.
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,190
2,392
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The ecstasy I received of spiritual variety was similar to the experience of George Clark Rankin 100 years before me. Like George Clark Rankin I started out in a dry church...

"Grandfather was kind to me and considerate of me, yet he was strict with me. I worked along with him in the field when the weather was agreeable and when it was inclement I helped him in his hatter's shop, for the Civil War was in progress and he had returned at odd times to hatmaking. It was my business in the shop to stretch foxskins and coonskins across a wood-horse and with a knife, made for that purpose, pluck the hair from the fur. I despise the odor of foxskins and coonskins to this good day. He had me to walk two miles every Sunday to Dandridge to Church service and Sunday-school, rain or shine, wet or dry, cold or hot; yet he had fat horses standing in his stable. But he was such a blue-stocking Presbyterian that he never allowed a bridle to go on a horse's head on Sunday. The beasts had to have a day of rest. Old Doctor Minnis was the pastor, and he was the dryest and most interminable preacher I ever heard in my life. He would stand motionless and read his sermons from manuscript for one hour and a half at a time and sometimes longer. Grandfather would sit and never take his eyes off of him, except to glance at me to keep me quiet. It was torture to me." - George Clark Rankin

George Clark Rankin was then sent to Georgia after his grandfather could no longer care for him. With his belongings in a satchel he had a Colt's navy pistol of a large make. It was an old weapon, and what under the sun I wanted with it is a mystery to me to this good day. I reached the station in time to catch the eleven-o' clock train. I purchased my ticket and boarded the car for the first time in my life. I had one lone lorn fifty-cent piece left in my depleted purse, and that was the sum and substance of my finances for the rest of the trip. As the train whizzed along I looked first at the people and then through the window at the country and thought over my journey and what was to come of it. At nine o'clock we reached Dalton and disembarked. I had never been in a hotel. I saw one not far from the depot and went to it. I asked the clerk what he would charge me for a room that night and he said fifty cents. That was exactly my pile! I called for the accommodation, but before retiring I told him I wanted to leave very early the next morning for Spring Place and that I would pay him then, for no one would be up when I would leave. He smiled and took the silver half dollar. I went to my room, and solitude is no name for the room I occupied that night. After a while I fell into a sound sleep and awoke bright and early the next morning. It was not good daylight. I arose and hastened downstairs, and there sat the same clerk whom I had the night before it had never dawned on me that a hotel clerk sat up all night. I thanked him for his kindness and bade him good-bye in regular old country style.

It was not long until I was in the road and making tracks across the country to where my uncle lived. It was in 1866 and the marks of Sherman's march to the sea were everywhere visible. The country was very much out of repair and all around Dalton the earth was marked with breastworks. Every hill showed signs of war. Much of the fencing had not been restored and here and there I could see blackened chimneys still standing. After I had gotten out a few miles I stopped and took that old pistol with its belt and scabbard out of my satchel and buckled the war paraphernalia around my person on the outside of my coat. Just why I did this I cannot explain. I must have looked a caution in my homespun suit and rural air trudging along that highway with that old army pistol fastened around me. In going down a hill toward a ravine from which there was another hill in front of me I met two men horseback. They spoke to me and eyed me very curiously, but, strange to say, I could not tell why. Why would not men eye such a looking war arsenal as that? There were two others riding down the hill in front of me, and as the first two passed me they stopped and looked back at the others and shouted: "Lookout, boys, he is loaded!"

rankin78.jpg
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,190
2,392
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In the course of an hour I was at my uncle's. He was surprised to see me, but gave me a cordial welcome. The first thing he did was to disarm me, and that ended my pistol-toting. I have never had one about my person or home to this good day. And I never will understand just why I had that one. A good dinner refreshed me and I soon unfolded my plans and they were satisfactory to my kind-hearted kinsman. He was in the midst of cotton-picking and that afternoon I went to the field and, with a long sack about my waist, had my first experience in the cottonfield. We then would get ready for the revival occurring that night…

After the team had been fed and we had been to supper we put the mules to the wagon, filled it with chairs and we were off to the meeting. When we reached the locality it was about dark and the people were assembling. Their horses and wagons filled up the cleared spaces and the singing was already in progress. My uncle and his family went well up toward the front, but I dropped into a seat well to the rear. It was an old-fashioned Church, ancient in appearance, oblong in shape and unpretentious. It was situated in a grove about one hundred yards from the road. It was lighted with old tallow-dip candles furnished by the neighbors. It was not a prepossessing-looking place, but it was soon crowded and evidently there was a great deal of interest. A cadaverous-looking man stood up in front with a tuning fork and raised and led the songs. There were a few prayers and the minister came in with his saddlebags and entered the pulpit. He was the Rev. W. H. Heath, the circuit rider. His prayer impressed me with his earnestness and there were many amens to it in the audience. I do not remember his text, but it was a typical revival sermon, full of unction and power.

At its close he invited penitents to the altar and a great many young people flocked to it and bowed for prayer. Many of them became very much affected and they cried out distressingly for mercy. It had a strange effect on me. It made me nervous and I wanted to retire. Directly my uncle came back to me, put his arm around my shoulder and asked me if I did not want to be religious. I told him that I had always had that desire, that mother had brought me up that way, and really I did not know anything else. Then he wanted to know if I had ever professed religion. I hardly understood what he meant and did not answer him. He changed his question and asked me if I had ever been to the altar for prayer, and I answered him in the negative. Then he earnestly besought me to let him take me up to the altar and join the others in being prayed for. It really embarrassed me and I hardly knew what to say to him. He spoke to me of my mother and said that when she was a little girl she went to the altar and that Christ accepted her and she had been a good Christian all these years. That touched me in a tender spot, for mother always did do what was right; and then I was far away from her and wanted to see her. Oh, if she were there to tell me what to do!

By and by I yielded to his entreaty and he led forward to the altar. The minister took me by the hand and spoke tenderly to me as I knelt at the altar. I had gone more out of sympathy than conviction, and I did not know what to do after I bowed there. The others were praying aloud and now and then one would rise shoutingly happy and make the old building ring with his glad praise. It was a novel experience to me. I did not know what to pray for, neither did I know what to expect if I did pray. I spent the most of the hour wondering why I was there and what it all meant. No one explained anything to me. Once in awhile some good old brother or sister would pass my way, strike me on the back and tell me to look up and believe and the blessing would come. But that was not encouraging to me. In fact, it sounded like nonsense and the noise was distracting me. Even in my crude way of thinking I had an idea that religion was a sensible thing and that people ought to become religious intelligently and without all that hurrah. I presume that my ideas were the result of the Presbyterian training given to me by old grandfather. By and by my knees grew tired and the skin was nearly rubbed off my elbows. I thought the service never would close, and when it did conclude with the benediction I heaved a sigh of relief. That was my first experience at the mourner's bench.

As we drove home I did not have much to say, but I listened attentively to the conversation between my uncle and his wife. They were greatly impressed with the meeting, and they spoke first of this one and that one who had "come through" and what a change it would make in the community, as many of them were bad boys. As we were putting up the team my uncle spoke very encouragingly to me; he was delighted with the step I had taken and he pleaded with me not to turn back, but to press on until I found the pearl of great price. He knew my mother would be very happy over the start I had made. Before going to sleep I fell into a train of thought, though I was tired and exhausted. I wondered why I had gone to that altar and what I had gained by it. I felt no special conviction and had received no special impression, but then if my mother had started that way there must be something in it, for she always did what was right. I silently lifted my heart to God in prayer for conviction and guidance. I knew how to pray, for I had come up through prayer, but not the mourner's bench sort. So I determined to continue to attend the meeting and keep on going to the altar until I got religion.

Early the next morning I was up and in a serious frame of mind. I went with the other hands to the cottonfield and at noon I slipped off in the barn and prayed. But the more I thought of the way those young people were moved in the meeting and with what glad hearts they had shouted their praises to God the more it puzzled and confused me. I could not feel the conviction that they had and my heart did not feel melted and tender. I was callous and unmoved in feeling and my distress on account of sin was nothing like theirs. I did not understand my own state of mind and heart. It troubled me, for by this time I really wanted to have an experience like theirs.

When evening came I was ready for Church service and was glad to go. It required no urging. Another large crowd was present and the preacher was as earnest as ever. I did not give much heed to the sermon. In fact, I do not recall a word of it. I was anxious for him to conclude and give me a chance to go to the altar. I had gotten it into my head that there was some real virtue in the mourner's bench; and when the time came I was one of the first to prostrate myself before the altar in prayer. Many others did likewise. Two or three good people at intervals knelt by me and spoke encouragingly to me, but they did not help me. Their talks were mere exhortations to earnestness and faith, but there was no explanation of faith, neither was there any light thrown upon my mind and heart. I wrought myself up into tears and cries for help, but the whole situation was dark and I hardly knew why I cried, or what was the trouble with me. Now and then others would arise from the altar in an ecstasy of joy, but there was no joy for me. When the service closed I was discouraged and felt that maybe I was too hardhearted and the good Spirit could do nothing for me.

After we went home I tossed on the bed before going to sleep and wondered why God did not do for me what he had done for mother and what he was doing in that meeting for those young people at the altar. I could not understand it. But I resolved to keep on trying, and so dropped off to sleep. The next day I had about the same experience and at night saw no change in my condition. And so for several nights I repeated the same distressing experience. The meeting took on such interest that a day service was adopted along with the night exercises, and we attended that also. And one morning while I bowed at the altar in a very disturbed state of mind Brother Tyson, a good local preacher and the father of Rev. J. F. Tyson, now of the Central Conference, sat down by me and, putting his hand on my shoulder, said to me: "Now I want you to sit up awhile and let's talk this matter over quietly. I am sure that you are in earnest, for you have been coming to this altar night after night for several days. I want to ask you a few simple questions." And the following questions were asked and answered:

"My son, do you not love God?"

"I cannot remember when I did not love him."

"Do you believe on his Son, Jesus Christ?"

"I have always believed on Christ. My mother taught me that from my earliest recollection."

"Do you accept him as your Savior?"

"I certainly do, and have always done so."

"Can you think of any sin that is between you and the Savior?"

"No, sir; for I have never committed any bad sins."

"Do you love everybody?"

"Well, I love nearly everybody, but I have no ill-will toward any one. An old man did me a wrong not long ago and I acted ugly toward him, but I do not care to injure him."

"Can you forgive him?"

"Yes, if he wanted me to."

"But, down in your heart, can you wish him well?"

"Yes, sir; I can do that."

"Well, now let me say to you that if you love God, if you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior from sin and if you love your fellowmen and intend by God's help to lead a religious life, that's all there is to religion. In fact, that is all I know about it."
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,190
2,392
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Then he repeated several passages of Scriptures to me proving his assertions. I thought a moment and said to him: "But I do not feel like these young people who have been getting religion night after night. I cannot get happy like them. I do not feel like shouting."

The good man looked at me and smiled and said: "Ah, that's your trouble. You have been trying to feel like them. Now you are not them; you are yourself. You have your own quiet disposition and you are not turned like them. They are excitable and blustery like they are. They give way to their feelings. That's all right, but feeling is not religion. Religion is faith and life. If you have violent feeling with it, all good and well, but if you have faith and not much feeling, why the feeling will take care of itself. To love God and accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, turning away from all sin, and living a godly life, is the substance of true religion."

That was new to me, yet it had been my state of mind from childhood. For I remembered that away back in my early life, when the old preacher held services in my grandmother's house one day and opened the door of the Church, I went forward and gave him my hand. He was to receive me into full membership at the end of six months' probation, but he let it pass out of his mind and failed to attend to it.

As I sat there that morning listening to the earnest exhortation of the good man my tears ceased, my distress left me, light broke in upon my mind, my heart grew joyous, and before I knew just what I was doing I was going all around shaking hands with everybody, and my confusion and darkness disappeared and a great burden rolled off my spirit. I felt exactly like I did when I was a little boy around my mother's knee when she told of Jesus and God and Heaven. It made my heart thrill then, and the same old experience returned to me in that old country Church that beautiful September morning down in old North Georgia.

I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life.
 

tzcho2

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
1,646
846
113
Boston
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@amadeus @Willie T

2 Sam 6 14 And David danced before the Lord with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.
.... Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the Lord; and she despised him in her heart.
And they brought in the ark of the Lord, and set it in his place, in the midst of the tabernacle that David had pitched for it: and David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the Lord
."

Not very "orderly or quiet!!" :D
That can be a misleading comment imo. We should becareful as to what we are comparing David's worship to. Davids worship was joyful. We also never saw any examples in the NT of Jesus praise as being anything but shown in reverence to the Father. Same with the disciples worship & joy in the Lord was not examples of falling down in ecstasy & making murmurings.
I see nothing in scripture that illustrates any mayhem, disorder , chaos or hysterics or unrighteous worshiping. Nor do read anything about people falling on the floor in fits of hysterical laughter, & gyrating body movements.
The hysteria & flopping on the floor in laughter or other strange behaviors or movements IS something common in those participating in the invoking or channeling of spirits. It is common in Hinduism in those possessed by a Kundalini spirit and the hysterical ecstatic jerking movements are done in the pagan practices such as in shamanism , Buddhism , or in pagan rituals or in pagan temples for the invoking of the worship of strange gods as Pastor John MacArthur spoke of in the Strange Fire Conference he put on to address this issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Preacher4Truth

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,190
2,392
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Then he repeated several passages of Scriptures to me proving his assertions. I thought a moment and said to him: "But I do not feel like these young people who have been getting religion night after night. I cannot get happy like them. I do not feel like shouting."

The good man looked at me and smiled and said: "Ah, that's your trouble. You have been trying to feel like them. Now you are not them; you are yourself. You have your own quiet disposition and you are not turned like them. They are excitable and blustery like they are. They give way to their feelings. That's all right, but feeling is not religion. Religion is faith and life. If you have violent feeling with it, all good and well, but if you have faith and not much feeling, why the feeling will take care of itself. To love God and accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, turning away from all sin, and living a godly life, is the substance of true religion."

That was new to me, yet it had been my state of mind from childhood. For I remembered that away back in my early life, when the old preacher held services in my grandmother's house one day and opened the door of the Church, I went forward and gave him my hand. He was to receive me into full membership at the end of six months' probation, but he let it pass out of his mind and failed to attend to it.

As I sat there that morning listening to the earnest exhortation of the good man my tears ceased, my distress left me, light broke in upon my mind, my heart grew joyous, and before I knew just what I was doing I was going all around shaking hands with everybody, and my confusion and darkness disappeared and a great burden rolled off my spirit. I felt exactly like I did when I was a little boy around my mother's knee when she told of Jesus and God and Heaven. It made my heart thrill then, and the same old experience returned to me in that old country Church that beautiful September morning down in old North Georgia.

I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life.
As a teenager I would work the restaurant of the morning, the hay-field in the afternoon, and go to the revivals at night. We also had an active youth ministry and would go places like King's Dominion on Saturdays. The church I would attend was Pentecostal Holiness and they would have altar services just like the Methodist 100 years before them. And like George Clark Rankin, my "Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life." - The Life of George Clark Rankin
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,476
21,157
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
That can be a misleading comment imo. We should becareful as to what we are comparing David's worship to. Davids worship was joyful. We also never saw any examples in the NT of Jesus praise as being anything but shown in reverence to the Father. Same with the disciples worship & joy in the Lord was not examples of falling down in ecstasy & making murmurings.
I see nothing in scripture that illustrates any mayhem, disorder , chaos or hysterics or unrighteous worshiping. Nor do read anything about people falling on the floor in fits of hysterical laughter, & gyrating body movements.
The hysteria & flopping on the floor in laughter or other strange behaviors or movements IS something common in those participating in the invoking or channeling of spirits. It is common in Hinduism in those possessed by a Kundalini spirit and the hysterical ecstatic jerking movements are done in the pagan practices such as in shamanism , Buddhism , or in pagan rituals or in pagan temples for the invoking of the worshi p of strange gods as Pastor John MacArthur spoke of in the Strange Fire Conference he put on to address this issue.

So, do you stop using money because there is counterfeit money about?

How many people throw out the baby with the bathwater? :p

God gave discerning of spirits for that very reason...

In my time I have seen the true and seen much that counterfeit. We don't need to be geniuses to discern the different.

The devil uses fear to stunt the Church too.
Fear not.
 

tzcho2

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
1,646
846
113
Boston
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So, do you stop using money because there is counterfeit money about?

How many people throw out the baby with the bathwater? :p

God gave discerning of spirits for that very reason...

In my time I have seen the true and seen much that counterfeit. We don't need to be geniuses to discern the different.

The devil uses fear to stunt the Church too.
Fear not.
Throwing out what baby? what bathwater? Why would you say that?
I am completely explicit what I am referring to. Read my post again please, and don't put it through your own filters.
I said beware of painting David's praise as being chaotic or ungodly. It wasn't.
No where did I speak Fear or express it.
I gave concrete examples of the type of chaotic, ecstatic hysterical gyrating displays as to where they are expressed.
All Christians do not have spiritual discernment, or the discernment of spirits, nor do those that have it , have it to the same degree nor are each able to apply it with the same degree of knowledge.
 
Last edited:

Willie T

Heaven Sent
Staff member
Sep 14, 2017
5,869
7,426
113
St. Petersburg Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I just love the comment: "I don't see it anywhere in Scripture." There are hundreds of things that never occurred in the Bible until they DID. (and often never happened again) Are we to say they couldn't happen because they hadn't happened previously?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen and amadeus

Preacher4Truth

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
2,252
2,861
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That can be a misleading comment imo. We should becareful as to what we are comparing David's worship to. Davids worship was joyful. We also never saw any examples in the NT of Jesus praise as being anything but shown in reverence to the Father. Same with the disciples worship & joy in the Lord was not examples of falling down in ecstasy & making murmurings.
I see nothing in scripture that illustrates any mayhem, disorder , chaos or hysterics or unrighteous worshiping. Nor do read anything about people falling on the floor in fits of hysterical laughter, & gyrating body movements.
The hysteria & flopping on the floor in laughter or other strange behaviors or movements IS something common in those participating in the invoking or channeling of spirits. It is common in Hinduism in those possessed by a Kundalini spirit and the hysterical ecstatic jerking movements are done in the pagan practices such as in shamanism , Buddhism , or in pagan rituals or in pagan temples for the invoking of the worship of strange gods as Pastor John MacArthur spoke of in the Strange Fire Conference he put on to address this issue.
Exactly, yet the Neo-Baal worshipers of today can't be having any of that truth. God's revelation is NOT their authority, THEY are.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tzcho2

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,499
31,675
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I just love the comment: "I don't see it anywhere in Scripture." There are hundreds of things that never occurred in the Bible until they DID. (and often never happened again) Are we to say they couldn't happen because they hadn't happened previously?
Even so my friend! The scriptures may provide us with examples of every thing that really is needed for guidance but the Holy Spirit does have work to accomplish in us and through us. What did David have in the way of scriptures? Perhaps the first five books of the Bible? Yet, the life of David and his own inspired writings add a whole lot to what is written and called scripture today.

The Book of Acts was only the beginning of what happened and was to happen as a result of those who after the Resurrection of Jesus were to follow Him and to do greater works than Jesus had done during his 3½ years of ministry among mankind. The acts did not stop when the last book of any accepted Canon of the Scriptures was completed. Each person who had known or knows God in any measure was/is a work in progress. Some may doubt that but as I see it they simply fail see this important part of the plan of God for mankind. Who among us is already "like Him"?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Helen and Willie T

tzcho2

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
1,646
846
113
Boston
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Wonder where it says that the devil uses fear to stunt the church?