Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed

[FaithWillDo]

I see. Thanks.

Dear Phoneman777,
Why does Christ being the Savior of the world seem to disturb you so much? Don't you love your neighbor and want Christ to save them? Or would that make your salvation seem less special to you?

Paul said that no one has anything to boast about concerning their salvation. But when a believer has a works based belief system, they feel that they are smarter, wiser or just not as evil as those who reject Christ. Because they have these beliefs, they mistakenly think that they are worthy of salvation when others are not. However, the truth is no one is worthy of salvation. That is why salvation comes to mankind by God's grace (unmerited favor). A works based faith is "filthy rags" and will be rejected by Christ.

Christ loves all mankind and will do all that is necessary to save us all. The salvation of mankind is why He came into the world and that is what He is going to accomplish.

You seem to believe that the Lord is like mankind who frequently fails to accomplish the things that they set out to do. Maybe you think that the "will" of most people is just too strong for the Lord to overcome. Or maybe you think that some people are just too evil to be saved. But no matter your reasons, you would still be wrong. The Lord never fails at anything and He will accomplish all that pleases Him:

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, that will he do.

Salvation is a free gift from God and He will see to it that all mankind receives it.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Rom 5:15 But shall not the act of favour be as the offence? For if by the offence of one the many have died, much rather has the grace of God, and the free gift in grace, which is by the one man Jesus Christ, abounded unto the many.

Where is your faith to believe God's Word?

Joe

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The Antichrist was already revealed in the 6th century - the papacy.

Does not the "Little Horn" rise among the Ten Horns of the fallen Fourth Beast, the Roman Empire?
Does not the "Man of Sin" arise when the Roman Empire is "taken out of the way", according to the ECFs?
Does not the coming of Jesus follow - not precede - the great "falling away" apostasy - the papal reign?
Did not the papacy "think to change times and laws" by, for one, altering the Ten Commandments?
Is not the papal horn "diverse" from the other 10 secular horns in that it's a religio-potlicial power?
Did not the papacy reign for a time, times, and half a time (1,260 years) from 538 - 1798?
Did not the papacy "make war with the saints" - condemning 50-150 million Christians for "heresy"?
Does not the papacy have a man at the head, the pope, who speaks blasphemy?
Does not the Bible define "blasphemy" as claiming to be God and the power to forgive sin?
Does not the "Whore riding the Beast" aka the "church/state union" reside in the 7 hilled city, Rome?

This evidence and more points to only one possible candidate as "Antichrist" which is why Charles Spurgeon said "no sane man ought to raise the question" as to what Antichrist is:

View attachment 43900

I don't agree with Universalism. However, I disagree with the above premise and eschatological beliefs.
The Antichrist is about to take over the world/ be revealed. He is not the Pope nor any Pope in the past. They are for Christ not against Him. You have a deep seated hatred. There a billion Catholics, who are Christians.
1. Little horn - Islam. The Ottoman Empire ruled for almost 500 years to 1921, died and now has come to life. They were the 7th empire (Beast), suffered a deadly blow, but now has been revived and comes to life as 8th BEAST. THE WAR IN ISRAEL WILL ESCALATE INTO ARMAGEDDON. Iran, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen are already involved. Five more nations will complete the Beast. Likely Turkey, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Egypt will get involved. Russia has been involved on Iran's nuclear program for 30 years and has bases in Syria.
2. The "Falling away" is from faith in Christ.
3. Antichrist is now behing the scenes trying to change laws (New World Order)

It saddens me to be in the company of those who are Anti-Catholic Church/Pope. You are also an Amillennialist too, a group I find difficulties in communicating with. Conversations are always futile. I'll pass. Take care.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

So, Joe, if God predestines some men for salvation and other for destruction, what's the point of the Gospel?

What's the point of warning people not to reject it?

What's the point of commanding people to "abide" or be "cast into the fire"?

All your verses can easily be interpreted to show they merely represent "foreknowledge", and not necessarily "predestination".

Predestination bears the same satanic "Religion of Exclusivity" mark that identifies Luciferian societies, catholicism, judaism, Mormonism, etc. - the pompous, arrogant idea that "I know the path and you don't, so away from us, ye profane".

Don’t forget to add “anti-cultist” and Evengelicals to your list of exclusive and arrogant

 

[O'Darby]

Don’t forget to add “anti-cultist” and Evengelicals to your list of exclusive and arrogant

Not to mention "pretty much everyone who ever posted on any Christian internet forum." That was one of the things I found amusing in my long involvement with the JFK assassination conspiracy community (see post #6) - things reached the point where it was almost easier to list people NOT involved in the conspiracy than those who WERE (LBJ, Hoover, FBI, CIA, Joint Chiefs of Staff, Army Intelligence, Secret Service, Dallas police, Texas oilmen, anti-Castro Cubans, pro-Castro Cubans, Mafia, imported French gunmen, Illuminati, Luciferian societies - pretty much anyone and everyone other than Lee Harvey Oswald).

 

[Cassandra]

Dear Cassandra,
Yes, God loves all mankind and that is why He sent Christ into the world:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

However, to satisfy God's own purposes, God established a plan that will only save a few people in this age. They are vessels of honor. In the final age, Christ will save the rest of mankind. They are vessels of dishonor. But in the end, all mankind will be saved.

Paul addressed your concerns about "election" in the verses below:

Rom 9:11 Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

God's ways are not mankind's ways. If they were, mankind would understand God:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

In order to show His love to mankind, God has chosen to give His love and mercy to a few people in this age. They are NOT SPECIAL because that implies that they did something to make themselves special. However, they are blessed. And through these few blessed individuals, Christ will save the rest of mankind. That is the purpose for the Elect.

In the final age, Christ and the Elect will make this call to the lost:

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

After the last person in the final age is saved, this verse will be proven true:

Rom 5:15 But shall not the act of favour be as the offence? For if by the offence of one the many have died, much rather has the grace of God, and the free gift in grace, which is by the one man Jesus Christ, abounded unto the many.

Salvation is a free gift that will be given to all mankind. It cannot be earned, nor can it be refused as the apostate church teaches. In the end, all mankind will freely drink of the water of life (Holy Spirit). After they do, the only decision they will make is to call Jesus "Lord":

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

I am sure that you believe that Christ died on the cross for your sins, but has Christ given you enough faith to believe everything that He has said in scripture?

Joe

It is offered freely, but not all will accept.



The soul that sinneth, it shall die

Eze 18:
21 “But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. 22 None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?


24 “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.



If you REALLY believe that all will be saved, don't talk to the Lord, or read His Word, just go out and have fun. It doesn't matter does it? Heck, He probably wouldn't hold it against you.

And what did Satan tell Eve? " Ye shall NOT surely die." Gen 3:4
Why does Jesus tell us to tell the world to observe all things He commanded if it doesn't matter?

Matt19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[FaithWillDo]

It is offered freely, but not all will accept.



The soul that sinneth, it shall die

Eze 18:
21 “But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. 22 None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?


24 “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.



If you REALLY believe that all will be saved, don't talk to the Lord, or read His Word, just go out and have fun. It doesn't matter does it? Heck, He probably wouldn't hold it against you.

And what did Satan tell Eve? " Ye shall NOT surely die." Gen 3:4
Why does Jesus tell us to tell the world to observe all things He commanded if it doesn't matter?

Matt19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Dear Cassandra,
You said:
It is offered freely, but not all will accept.

God's Word says that NO ONE will accept Jesus as Lord because the things of the Spirit are considered "foolishness" to them:

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

And not only that, no man can understand Christ or will even have a desire to seek after Him:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

These two verses apply to all mankind, even you.

Considering what these two verses say, why do you believe you accepted Jesus as your Savior?

Here is what God's Word says about why you accepted Jesus as your Lord and this reason applies to all mankind who make a confession of faith:

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

The Lord prepared your heart to make a confession of faith. He did it by freely giving you the Early Rain of the Spirit. He did not ask for your permission to give you the Spirit nor did you ask Him for the gift of it. Christ is the one who made the decision to come to you and give you the Spirit. When He came, you had no ability to refuse the gift.

Did you know that when Christ gave you this gift, you had no way of knowing that He gave it to you at that time?

Scripture says that because of our carnality, we cannot discern when Christ does His spiritual work within us.

Ecc 3:11 He has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put obscurity (the carnality of this world) in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does, that which God does from the beginning to the end.

The evidence for Christ's spiritual work that He did within you was manifested by your confession of faith after someone presented you the Gospel message by the "foolishness of preaching". Since you had no ability to see the spiritual work that Christ did within you beforehand, you believed that you were the one responsible for making the decision. But you were not. Christ was the one who caused you to accept Him as your Savior.

In this same way, Christ calls "many" into the church. If Christ does not come in this same manner to a person, they will have no choice but to remain an unbeliever until they die.

You said:
If you REALLY believe that all will be saved, don't talk to the Lord, or read His Word, just go out and have fun. It doesn't matter does it? Heck, He probably wouldn't hold it against you.

When Christ gives a person the Early Rain of the Spirit, the Spirit gives the person a measure of faith. However, it leaves them spiritually blind and unconverted. In this condition, the truth of God will remain veiled from their understanding and they will still be governed by their carnal nature & carnal mind. In this condition, they will still prefer to "just go out and have fun" - but they will also know that kind of behavior is not what they should be doing. Because they have a knowledge of the Law, they will attempt to follow the Law to the best of their ability, but like the Nation of Israel, they will frequently fail in this endeavor.

For the called out believers who are the Elect, Christ will come to them a second time and freely give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the Latter Rain, their spiritual blindness will be healed and they will finally begin understanding the truth of God's Word. After receiving this truth, the Day of the Lord will immediately follow. From this judgment, the believer's carnality will be removed and destroyed. It is at this time that the believer will start being governed by the Holy Spirit which will give them a new spiritual nature. With this new nature, they will slowly mature into being like Christ and will not want to just go out and have fun anymore. They will only be wanting to please the Lord in everything they do and the governing Spirit within them will give them the power to do it. This is what it means to be converted.

Consider Paul's conversion experience. Paul received the Early Rain of the Spirit on the Damascus Road. This is when Paul first called Jesus "Lord" and submitted to His authority. Paul's blindness represented his spiritual blindness and as a result, he had to be led by the hand. He could not receive truth directly from Christ. Paul's three days in Damascus represented the spiritual process of becoming "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45). It was during this time of blindness that Paul could not eat or drink the truth of Christ. Then it is stated that Paul was staying at the house of a man named Judas. This represents that Paul, too, become a "man of sin". When the three days were fulfilled, Ananias (a type for Christ) travelled on "Straight" street to reach Paul. This represents Paul's repentance from works. After Ananias arrived, Paul received the Latter Rain and the scales fell off his eyes. Paul was then told to eat "meat" (the truth of God). There was no mention of Paul's judgment which surely followed.

Mankind is saved solely by the work of Christ that He does within a person. If they are blessed to be one of the Elect, Christ will come to them two times and give them both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, followed by His judgment. This is the only way a person is converted and saved in this age.

For the rest of mankind, they will be saved at the end of the final age. At that time, Christ will have mercy upon them and give them the faith they need by giving them the Early Rain of the Spirit. Once Christ's pathway is made straight, He will come again and pour out the Latter Rain and convert them. In the end, all mankind will be saved.

Joe

 

[Cassandra]

Dear Cassandra,
You said:
It is offered freely, but not all will accept.

God's Word says that NO ONE will accept Jesus as Lord because the things of the Spirit are considered "foolishness" to them:

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

And not only that, no man can understand Christ or will even have a desire to seek after Him:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

These two verses apply to all mankind, even you.

Considering what these two verses say, why do you believe you accepted Jesus as your Savior?

Here is what God's Word says about why you accepted Jesus as your Lord and this reason applies to all mankind who make a confession of faith:

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

The Lord prepared your heart to make a confession of faith. He did it by freely giving you the Early Rain of the Spirit. He did not ask for your permission to give you the Spirit nor did you ask Him for the gift of it. Christ is the one who made the decision to come to you and give you the Spirit. When He came, you had no ability to refuse the gift.

Did you know that when Christ gave you this gift, you had no way of knowing that He gave it to you at that time?

Scripture says that because of our carnality, we cannot discern when Christ does His spiritual work within us.

Ecc 3:11 He has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put obscurity (the carnality of this world) in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does, that which God does from the beginning to the end.

The evidence for Christ's spiritual work that He did within you was manifested by your confession of faith after someone presented you the Gospel message by the "foolishness of preaching". Since you had no ability to see the spiritual work that Christ did within you beforehand, you believed that you were the one responsible for making the decision. But you were not. Christ was the one who caused you to accept Him as your Savior.

In this same way, Christ calls "many" into the church. If Christ does not come in this same manner to a person, they will have no choice but to remain an unbeliever until they die.

You said:
If you REALLY believe that all will be saved, don't talk to the Lord, or read His Word, just go out and have fun. It doesn't matter does it? Heck, He probably wouldn't hold it against you.

When Christ gives a person the Early Rain of the Spirit, the Spirit gives the person a measure of faith. However, it leaves them spiritually blind and unconverted. In this condition, the truth of God will remain veiled from their understanding and they will still be governed by their carnal nature & carnal mind. In this condition, they will still prefer to "just go out and have fun" - but they will also know that kind of behavior is not what they should be doing. Because they have a knowledge of the Law, they will attempt to follow the Law to the best of their ability, but like the Nation of Israel, they will frequently fail in this endeavor.

For the called out believers who are the Elect, Christ will come to them a second time and freely give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the Latter Rain, their spiritual blindness will be healed and they will finally begin understanding the truth of God's Word. After receiving this truth, the Day of the Lord will immediately follow. From this judgment, the believer's carnality will be removed and destroyed. It is at this time that the believer will start being governed by the Holy Spirit which will give them a new spiritual nature. With this new nature, they will slowly mature into being like Christ and will not want to just go out and have fun anymore. They will only be wanting to please the Lord in everything they do and the governing Spirit within them will give them the power to do it. This is what it means to be converted.

Consider Paul's conversion experience. Paul received the Early Rain of the Spirit on the Damascus Road. This is when Paul first called Jesus "Lord" and submitted to His authority. Paul's blindness represented his spiritual blindness and as a result, he had to be led by the hand. He could not receive truth directly from Christ. Paul's three days in Damascus represented the spiritual process of becoming "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45). It was during this time of blindness that Paul could not eat or drink the truth of Christ. Then it is stated that Paul was staying at the house of a man named Judas. This represents that Paul, too, become a "man of sin". When the three days were fulfilled, Ananias (a type for Christ) travelled on "Straight" street to reach Paul. This represents Paul's repentance from works. After Ananias arrived, Paul received the Latter Rain and the scales fell off his eyes. Paul was then told to eat "meat" (the truth of God). There was no mention of Paul's judgment which surely followed.

Mankind is saved solely by the work of Christ that He does within a person. If they are blessed to be one of the Elect, Christ will come to them two times and give them both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, followed by His judgment. This is the only way a person is converted and saved in this age.

For the rest of mankind, they will be saved at the end of the final age. At that time, Christ will have mercy upon them and give them the faith they need by giving them the Early Rain of the Spirit. Once Christ's pathway is made straight, He will come again and pour out the Latter Rain and convert them. In the end, all mankind will be saved.

Joe

No they won't
Test what you say. Shove it all away and see if you get saved in the end. If what you say is true, then you have no worries! It's a problem free philosophy!!!

 

[FaithWillDo]

No they won't
Test what you say. Shove it all away and see if you get saved in the end. If what you say is true, then you have no worries! It's a problem free philosophy!!!

Dear Cassandra,
Your statement is contradicted by these scriptures:

1Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

As for my salvation, I was converted and saved in 2005 at the age of 44. I had been in the apostate church my entire life but had no knowledge of it. It was only after Christ healed my blindness that I could see the Abomination of Desolation that had previously occurred within me. The day of my conversion was a time of great spiritual earthquakes, lightning and thunder. The worldly paradigm from which I understood Christ came crashing down in flames. The sun was darkened and the moon became as blood. I quickly came to understand that very little of what I had been taught in the apostate church was true. It was a day like no other.

My conversion testimony is posted on my website shown under my member name if you care to read it.

Joe

 

[Phoneman777]

Dear Phoneman777,
Why does Christ being the Savior of the world seem to disturb you so much? Don't you love your neighbor and want Christ to save them? Or would that make your salvation seem less special to you?

He's not saving everyone - only those who repent.

 

[Phoneman777]

I don't agree with Universalism. However, I disagree with above premise and eschatological beliefs. The Antichrist is about to take over the world/ be revealed. He is not the Pope or any Pope in the past. They are for Christ not against Him.

A church whose members claim the titles, names, and prerogatives of Christ can't be pro-Christ.

You have a deep seated hatred. There a billion Catholics, who are Christians.

Yes, I hate the lie of Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurism because by it Satan is deceiving people like you, friend.

1. Little horn - Islam.

Question: When and where does the Little Horn comes up?
Answer: "among them" meaning the other Ten Horns, and it came up at the same time the others came up.

Islam came up well to the East of these Ten Horns and many centuries later.

Would you like to start at the beginning and find more reasons why Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurism is wrong and at the same time why Protestant Historicism is the only interpretation that makes Biblical sense?

 

[Phoneman777]

Don’t forget to add “anti-cultist” and Evengelicals to your list of exclusive and arrogant

An evangelical told me if the wicked don't have to suffer eternal torment for rejecting Jesus, no one would follow Him. Sounded like the Prodigal Son's older brother who resented the kind treatment of his younger brother. Struck me as someone planning to get a lakeside seat to the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[FaithWillDo]

He's not saving everyone - only those who repent.

Dear Phoneman777,

Repentance is a gift from God:

2Tim 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

And because Christ is not willing for anyone to perish, He will give that gift of repentance to all mankind:

2Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Do you really believe that mankind can resist and confound God's "will" and desires for mankind?

Scripture says that mankind's "will" is nothing for God to overcome:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, that will he do.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

However, the "man of sin" (apostate believers) believes it can be done:

2Thes 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The belief that mankind can resist God's "will" comes from the false Doctrine of Free Will. However, only God the Father has a free will. Scripture says that mankind's "will" is 100% subservient to God's "will" and always will be.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

By the end of the final age, God's "will" of saving all mankind will be accomplished just as the prophets have foretold:

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Since all things will be restored to God, how can anyone remain unsaved?

What is keeping you from believing the verses I posted above? Does your understanding of the truth not come from scripture?

Joe

 

[Phoneman777]

Dear Phoneman777,

Repentance is a gift from God:

2Tim 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Repentance is a gift - but only in the sense of making it available to us and divinely encouraging us to do it. Paul never said God "force feeds" us repentance - He "leads" us to it and leaves the ball in our court.

And because Christ is not willing for anyone to perish, He will give that gift of repentance to all mankind:

2Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Desire =/= outcome

Do you really believe that mankind can resist and confound God's "will" and desires for mankind?

God desires Christians "go and sin no more"...so, why are pastors molesting kids?

Scripture says that mankind's "will" is nothing for God to overcome:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, that will he do.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

John 6:39 KJV says the Father's will is that none given to Jesus would be lost...yet, Jesus Himself declares Judas is lost in John 17:12 KJV.

Therefore, the scope of Daniel 4:35 must be interpreted to deny God's gift of free will choice to obey or disobey.

However, the "man of sin" (apostate believers) believes it can be done:

2Thes 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

"Man of sin" refers to the papal Antichrist which presumes to "take the place" of Christ. If God's will is that we keep His commandments (Psalm 40:8 KJV) then how can you explain a priesthood that claims to "hold upon this Earth the place of God Almighty" and claims power to forgive sins?

The belief that mankind can resist God's "will" comes from the false Doctrine of Free Will. However, only God the Father has a free will. Scripture says that mankind's "will" is 100% subservient to God's "will" and always will be.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

As in the case of a Hollywood movie set, God directs and man either takes direction or does not. What happens to the actor who refuses to take direction?

Regarding the "false doctrine of free will", Isaiah 1:18-19 KJV absolutely establishes the concept of free-will choice to either be willing and obedient and eat of the good of the land, or to refuse and rebel and be devoured by the sword.

By the end of the final age, God's "will" of saving all mankind will be accomplished just as the prophets have foretold:

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Since all things will be restored to God, how can anyone remain unsaved?

"All things" can't include sinners because "the soul that sinneth, it SHALL DIE" - this death refers to the future Second Death, not the present "spiritual death" sinners currently suffer.

Proof?

When the Bible speaks of "spiritual death" it puts it in the "present tense": "She that liveth in pleasure IS DEAD while she liveth". Therefore, the sinner "shall die" the Second Death, which is eternal death, everlasting death...a death from which there will be no resurrection. In light of this, we see "all things" refers to "the saints" and "the cursed animal kingdom" and "the Earth destroyed by Flood" and "cleansing of the polluted heavenly sanctuary", etc. - never sinners.

What is keeping you from believing the verses I posted above? Does your understanding of the truth not come from scripture?

Joe

Of course I believe them, just not your flawed interpretation of them.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Of course I believe them, just not your flawed interpretation of them.

Dear Phoneman777,
You said:
Repentance is a gift - but only in the sense of making it available to us and divinely encouraging us to do it. Paul never said God "force feeds" us repentance - He "leads" us to it and leaves the ball in our court.

Repentance is referring to repentance from dead works. Repentance does not apply to unbelievers because they have not been trying to follow Christ. Repentance applies to the Nation of Israel who needed to transition from the Old Covenant which is based on man's works. It also applies to fallen away believers (those who only have the Early Rain of the Spirit) who are mixing works with faith. This happens because both groups are still carnally minded and spiritually blind. For this reason, Christ said this:

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

The carnal mind prefers the Old Wine over the New Wine. The Old Wine is based on the works of man. The New Wine is based solely on the works of Christ. For that reason, all Early Rain believers will easily accept Satan's "another gospel" without even questioning if it is the true gospel. It is simply tastes better to them.

Because all believers at some point will be mixing works with faith, it is necessary for Christ to give the believer the gift of repentance. Repentance cannot come from our carnal nature. It only comes from the Spirit.

2Tim 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

You said:
God desires Christians "go and sin no more"...so, why are pastors molesting kids?

Christ said "go and sin no more" to the woman taken in adultery. His statement came AFTER she received (in type) both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. It is only after a believer is converted that they will be governed by the Holy Spirit so that they can walk by faith rather than by the flesh. Only then will they "go and sin no more".

As I have said, all churches in the world are made up of people who have only been given the Early Rain of the Spirit. Those believers are all apostate and are not children of God. They remain a child of the Devil, only in a spiritually worsened condition because of the indwelling spirit of anti-Christ.

If you look at church history over the centuries, the churches are responsible for just as much death and suffering as the unbelievers in this world. Pastors are no different and are just as carnal and sinful as anyone else. They are not converted and have become "ministers of Satan".

You said:
John 6:39 KJV says the Father's will is that none given to Jesus would be lost...yet, Jesus Himself declares Judas is lost in John 17:12 KJV.
Therefore, the scope of Daniel 4:35 must be interpreted to deny God's gift of free will choice to obey or disobey.

There is no scripture that says mankind has a "gift of free will choice". That is a lie of Satan. I showed you the verses that contradict that lie. Why do you continue to believe it?

As for your comments on Judas, here is the verse you quoted:

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

So who has the Father given to Christ:

John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

The Father has given all mankind to Christ and no one will be lost. The "last day" is referring to the time just before a person is converted. The Elect are converted in this age before they die. The rest of mankind will be converted at the end of the final age. It will be at this time that Judas will be saved. Christ will lose no one because He is not willing that any should perish.

You said:
"Man of sin" refers to the papal Antichrist which presumes to "take the place" of Christ. If God's will is that we keep His commandments (Psalm 40:8 KJV) then how can you explain a priesthood that claims to "hold upon this Earth the place of God Almighty" and claims power to forgive sins?

Yes, the pope is a "man of sin" but so are all apostate believers in the churches.

Revelation teaches about the man of sin in chapter 13 and 17. The man of sin is the Seven headed beast with ten horns and ten crowns. The ten crowns represent Satan's control over the person by the second beast. The second beast is the spirit of anti-Christ. Without the crowns, the beast represents carnal mankind. Now look at this verse:

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

To be blessed, a person must keep the sayings of the prophecies. That includes becoming a man of sin. But it also includes the second coming of Christ when Christ pours out the Latter Rain and converts the Elect believer. No one who is Elect will be spared from their "Day of Evil" because no one has a free will ability to avoid experiencing it. It is Christ who causes the Elect to travel the pathway He has laid down.

Since all apostate believers ultimately believe in a free will ability (some try to hide it), they all set themselves up to be equal with God who is the only one who has a free will ability.

2Thes 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

An apostate believer has both the spirit of anti-Christ and the Holy Spirit within themselves. It is the spirit of anti-Christ who sits in God's temple (the believer) and claims to be equal with God. Because both the Holy Spirit and the spirit of anti-Christ are in the believer, a spiritual war occurs with the spirit of anti-Christ eventually winning. When the spirit of anti-Christ wins the war, the believer will spiritually die. This is how Satan kills the saints. From that point, the believer will be governed by Satan and will accept what he teaches. But Satan does this by deception which causes the believer to think they are following Christ when they are not.

This verse applies:

2Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Don't think that you can avoid Satan's deception because no one can:

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

It is only after Christ comes to an Elect believer the second time and heals their spiritual blindness that they will be able to "see" that they have been under Satan's deceptions their whole Christian life. It is at that time that they will see the Abomination of Desolation which occurred when the spirit of anti-Christ indwelt them (Mat 24:15-16). After they see this truth, the judgment of Christ will fall on them and will destroy the spirit of anti-Christ from within them (Mat 24:40-40, Rev 19:20).

You said:
As in the case of a Hollywood movie set, God directs and man either takes direction or does not. What happens to the actor who refuses to take direction?

In this life, no man can accept Christ unless Christ gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. But even then, they cannot accept His governance until they receive the Latter Rain, too. For those who Christ does not convert in this life, they will lose the rewards of the Elect. This happens solely because God did not choose them for this blessing. It is from no fault of their own. But in the final age, they will still be saved by fire (Lake of Fire).

1Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

You need to get the false idea out of your head that salvation can only come to a person in this age. Only being one of the Elect is lost if Christ does not save a person before they die. But in the final age, they will still be saved. God's Word proclaims it over and over again.

CONTINUED ON THE NEXT POST...

 

[FaithWillDo]

Of course I believe them, just not your flawed interpretation of them.

CONTINUED FROM THE PREVIOUS POST...

You said:
Regarding the "false doctrine of free will", Isaiah 1:18-19 KJV absolutely establishes the concept of free-will choice to either be willing and obedient and eat of the good of the land, or to refuse and rebel and be devoured by the sword.

Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: 20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Mankind cannot be "willing and obedient" until Christ converts us into His children. This happens by the "will" and spiritual work of Christ. Mankind has no say in the matter. Until that happens, all mankind will "refuse and rebel" just as Adam and Eve did in the Garden. You are making a lot of assumptions about free will being in this scripture. It is not there. To know if mankind has a free will, we must look to other scripture because Christ teaches us "here a little and there a little" (Isa 28:9-12).

Here are just some of the scriptures that address whether or not mankind has a free will ability:

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

You said:
"All things" can't include sinners because "the soul that sinneth, it SHALL DIE" - this death refers to the future Second Death, not the present "spiritual death" sinners currently suffer.

You do not understand conversion. All mankind has sinned and is therefore "condemned already" (John 3:18). To be saved, the old vessel must be destroyed and a new vessel created:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

After all things are restored, there won't be any sinners. That is why Christ said we must be "born again":

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

In the end, mankind will cease to exist because they have been destroyed. But the Kingdom of Heaven will be that much fuller.

Until Christ heals a person's spiritual blindness, the truth of God's Word is going to remain a mystery to them. That is why the Latter Rain of the Spirit is also called the "Spirit of Truth". Only after a believer receives the Spirit of Truth will the Word of God open up to their understanding. I suggest you pray for it as Christ says to do here:

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

This scripture teaches that truth is a gift from God. It does not come from a supposed free will ability.

Joe

 

[Earburner]

There's a power controlling the world that's responsible for the constant unrest and turmoil and many Christians blame Leftists, Bankers, Islam, Jews, etc., even "right wing" extremists (which are only "extrpeme" to those who've moved so far left that God, if He exists at all, must be a woman). The truth is that all these agencies are controlled by Satan via a network of Luciferian secret societies whose members are sworn to the strictest secrecy as they pass the torch from one generation to the next, going about their clandestine work of moving the nations toward the final climactic battle between good and evil, controlling politics, education, judicial systems, mass media, and even religion through the papacy in Rome, Satan's "Antichrist" which claims to "take the place of Christ" - the very definition of the term - and a well organized Jesuit Order under which all these secret societies operate. Of course, God is keeping these in check for now, as the angels hold back the "winds of strife" - but soon, those winds will begin to blow hard upon the Earth.

Phoneman's OP was in Jan. 14, 2015. We are now in 2024. I believe that His statement (above) is now coming to pass.

Through the understanding that God has revealed to me, we are witnessing satan and his wrath, of which shall cause WW3, (NOT Armageddon). See Rev. 9:13-21 about the four angels that are "BOUND" in the great River Euphrates, being "LOOSED".

Those four angels are symbolic of four countries, that border the River Euphrates.
They are: Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran, all of which ARE "BOUND" together in the religion of Islam.
I perceive that we are witnessing the "loosing" of Satan, through those four countries, as prophesied in KJV Rev. 20:1-3
[1] And I saw an angel [symbolic of Jesus' first coming in the flesh, to "BIND" the "strong man"-satan] come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain ["chains of darkness"] in his hand.
[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years [symbolic for the present Age of God's Grace, through faith in Jesus].
[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit [on to this earth], and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations [of the saved] no more, till the [present symbolic] thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be LOOSED a little season.

 

[Phoneman777]

Repentance applies to the Nation of Israel who needed to transition from the Old Covenant which is based on man's works. It also applies to fallen away believers

The "Israel of God" is anyone anywhere who "walk by this rule" of the "new creature" in Christ.

Repentance isn't limited to just impenitent/apostate "Israel" as you claim, according to Acts 26:20 KJV

You said:
God desires Christians "go and sin no more"...so, why are pastors molesting kids?

As I have said, all churches in the world are made up of people who have only been given the Early Rain of the Spirit. Those believers are all apostate and are not children of God. They remain a child of the Devil, only in a spiritually worsened condition because of the indwelling spirit of anti-Christ.

Let's be clear: no child of the devil can be a recipient of God's spirit, be it Early Rain, Latter Rain, Purple Rain, It's Raining Men, nothing, understand?

Proof?

God's only gives His spirit to them that obey Him (Acts 5:32 KJV), therefore, since a child of the devil can't obey God even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV) there's no way they have His spirit.

If you look at church history over the centuries, the churches are responsible for just as much death and suffering as the unbelievers in this world. Pastors are no different and are just as carnal and sinful as anyone else. They are not converted and have become "ministers of Satan".

So, a minister of Satan dies without salvation, but somehow is eligible for salvation? Not according to Hebrews 9:27 KJV. Universalism dies the death it deserves right here, right or wrong?

There is no scripture that says mankind has a "gift of free will choice". That is a lie of Satan. I showed you the verses that contradict that lie. Why do you continue to believe it?

You've shown nothing except inclination to wrongly interpret Scriptures over here to overthrow the truth of Scripture written over there. Here's a few verses that not only prove God's gift of free will choice to us to either serve Him or Satan, but also that it's our duty to choose to serve Him instead of Satan:

Deuteronomy 30:19 KJV
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life.

Psalms 119:30
I have chosen the way of truth: thy judgments have I laid before me.

Joshua 24:15 KJV
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve

Joshua 24:22 KJV
And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the Lord, to serve him.

Luke 10:42 KJV
But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part.

Psalms 119:173 KJV
Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.

Proverbs 1:29 KJV
For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord:

The Elect are converted in this age before they die. The rest of mankind will be converted at the end of the final age.

Hebrews 9:27 KJV plainly says what comes after death is judgment - not opportunity.

You said:
"Man of sin" refers to the papal Antichrist which presumes to "take the place" of Christ. If God's will is that we keep His commandments (Psalm 40:8 KJV) then how can you explain a priesthood that claims to "hold upon this Earth the place of God Almighty" and claims power to forgive sins?

Yes, the pope is a "man of sin" but so are all apostate believers in the churches.

No, those constitute the "False Prophet" which claims "Sola Scriptura" but teaches false papal ideas like Immortality of the Soul, Eternal Torment, Greasy Grace (protestant "sinner's prayer" instead of papal "sacrament"), Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurism, Jesuit Preterism, Abrogation of Law, church hierarchy, and the list goes on and on.

Revelation teaches about the man of sin in chapter 13 and 17. The man of sin is the Seven headed beast with ten horns and ten crowns. The ten crowns represent Satan's control over the person by the second beast. The second beast is the spirit of anti-Christ. Without the crowns, the beast represents carnal mankind. Now look at this verse:

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

To be blessed, a person must keep the sayings of the prophecies. That includes becoming a man of sin. But it also includes the second coming of Christ when Christ pours out the Latter Rain and converts the Elect believer. No one who is Elect will be spared from their "Day of Evil" because no one has a free will ability to avoid experiencing it. It is Christ who causes the Elect to travel the pathway He has laid down.

Since all apostate believers ultimately believe in a free will ability (some try to hide it), they all set themselves up to be equal with God who is the only one who has a free will ability.

2Thes 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

An apostate believer has both the spirit of anti-Christ and the Holy Spirit within themselves. It is the spirit of anti-Christ who sits in God's temple (the believer) and claims to be equal with God. Because both the Holy Spirit and the spirit of anti-Christ are in the believer, a spiritual war occurs with the spirit of anti-Christ eventually winning. When the spirit of anti-Christ wins the war, the believer will spiritually die. This is how Satan kills the saints. From that point, the believer will be governed by Satan and will accept what he teaches. But Satan does this by deception which causes the believer to think they are following Christ when they are not.

This verse applies:

2Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

The prospect of me trying to untwist all these false ideas reminds me of one time when we were shooting a 3000' underground fiber cable from manhole 31 to manhole 45. Sections of orange innerduct is first placed end to end, screwed together in each manhole along the route until one continuous run of innerduct is made. Then, we a special machine, we shoot high pressure air in the innerduct and start feeding in the fiber cable. As the cable feeds in, the pressurized air travels down to the end where the most boring but most important job takes place: keeping an eye on the end of the innerduct to make sure air is constantly coming out. Why? Because if it stops, that means the innerduct has come apart in one of the manholes and if the cable feeder crew doesn't get immediate word to shut it down, fiber will keep feeding into whichever manhole the separation occurred and create a giant ball of unimaginable confusion - just like your posts.

Well, as fate would have it, the innerduct separated and the guy watching at the end got bored and wasn't paying attention when the air pressure dropped off --- so, we kept right on pushing fiber and pushing fiber until the cable jammed and the machine stopped. Once we realized what happened, we started popping manhole covers until we found that tangled mess and it took us 4 hours to stretch it out and untangle it on the road.

I can't imagine how long it'd take to explain to you why the truth of Protestant Historicism is the only eschatological interpretation that harmonizes with Scripture.

In this life, no man can accept Christ unless Christ gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. But even then, they cannot accept His governance until they receive the Latter Rain, too. For those who Christ does not convert in this life, they will lose the rewards of the Elect. This happens solely because God did not choose them for this blessing. It is from no fault of their own. But in the final age, they will still be saved by fire (Lake of Fire).

Already explained that a sinner can't be a recipient of the Spirit because God only gives His Spirit to them that obey Him (Acts 5:32 KJV) while the unconverted sinner can't obey God even if he wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV).

You need to get the false idea out of your head that salvation can only come to a person in this age.

After death comes judgment, not opportunity.

"Today if you hear His voice".
"Now is the acceptable time".
"I made haste, I delayed not to keep the commandments of God".
"Cast me not away from Thy presence, and take not Thy holy spirit from me".
"Lest after I have preached to others, I myself be found a castaway".

 

[Phoneman777]

Mankind cannot be "willing and obedient" until Christ converts us into His children. This happens by the "will" and spiritual work of Christ. Mankind has no say in the matter. Until that happens, all mankind will "refuse and rebel" just as Adam and Eve did in the Garden.

Yes, no man comes to the Father unless the Spirit draw him - but the drawing takes place in THIS LIFE, not the next!

You are making a lot of assumptions about free will being in this scripture. It is not there. To know if mankind has a free will, we must look to other scripture because Christ teaches us "here a little and there a little" (Isa 28:9-12).

No, it is you who won't allow other verses to have their impact on the issue, so I say the same to you: go read "here a little and there a little".

Here are just some of the scriptures that address whether or not mankind has a free will ability:

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Children make plans to do all sorts of things, but parents have the final word. Does that mean children can't ever make choices? Please stop with your rigidity of interpretation.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Children can't understand the plans their parents have for them, either. Does that mean the children can't ever make choices? More rigidity.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Yes, like any good parent, God schedules activities for us: who we will meet, what circumstances we encounter, what temptations Satan is allowed to bring to us...so what?

Good parents know the importance of these things for development of the children, but when God does the same thing, He's somehow a cosmic control freak?

You said:
"All things" can't include sinners because "the soul that sinneth, it SHALL DIE" - this death refers to the future Second Death, not the present "spiritual death" sinners currently suffer.

You do not understand conversion. All mankind has sinned and is therefore "condemned already" (John 3:18). To be saved, the old vessel must be destroyed and a new vessel created:

You don't understand that conversion takes place when the human will is surrendered to God's will, allowing God to begin His work of cleansing and sanctifying. Yours is a theology of childish immaturity instead of dutiful responsibility.

"Now let us hear the whole conclusion of the matter. Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man".

After all things are restored, there won't be any sinners. That is why Christ said we must be "born again":

The restoration of all things is by elimination of impenitent sinners, not the reprogramming of them.

Read Hebrews 9:27 KJV and 2 Corinthians 5:10 KJV and you'll see the only thing that's coming after death is judgement - not opportunity - and that this judgment pertains to things done in the body, got it?

Who, except those with satanic murderous sympathies, could ever be satisfied with the notion that the impenitent serial killer is deserving of the same verdict as the most devout Gospel missionary?

In the end, mankind will cease to exist because they have been destroyed. But the Kingdom of Heaven will be that much fuller.

This is stunningly mindblowing. Do you not understand that the fate of men who accept salvation by grace through faith is to be transformed into the likeness of "the man Christ Jesus". Only impenitent mankind will be destroyed.

Until Christ heals a person's spiritual blindness, the truth of God's Word is going to remain a mystery to them.

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Ever hear of that woman who so identified with the disability of blindness that she poured acid in her eyes to blind herself?

The willful blindness of Universalism will not help you in the day of judgment, says Hosea 4:6 KJV.

This scripture teaches that truth is a gift from God. It does not come from a supposed free will ability.

Joe

No one says the truth comes from free will. Free will doesn't generate truth - it responds to it.

Universalism is just another means by which those who love sin can escape the consequences of it after making up their minds to not repent from it.

 

[Jack]

There's a power controlling the world that's responsible for the constant unrest and turmoil and many Christians blame Leftists, Bankers, Islam, Jews, etc., even "right wing" extremists (which are only "extreme" to those who've moved so far left that God, if He exists at all, must be a woman). The truth is that all these agencies are controlled by Satan via a network of Luciferian secret societies whose members are sworn to the strictest secrecy as they pass the torch from one generation to the next, going about their clandestine work of moving the nations toward the final climactic battle between good and evil, controlling politics, education, judicial systems, mass media, and even religion through the papacy in Rome, Satan's "Antichrist" which claims to "take the place of Christ" - the very definition of the term - and a well organized Jesuit Order under which all these secret societies operate. Of course, God is keeping these in check for now, as the angels hold back the "winds of strife" - but soon, those winds will begin to blow hard upon the Earth.

Since the end time deceptions could, if possible, deceive even the very elect, why are so many opposed to "conspiracy theories" - a disparaging term invented by the CIA to discourage public questioning of "official" reports? Christians, being forewarned that deception would define the very end times in which we live, ought to be those most well armed against deception - so the fact that so many scoff at "conspiracy theories" while swallowing whatever is spooned out by CNN or Fox News, by Leftist ideology or popular Conservatism, is strong evidence they may not be among the elect at all, which is most alarming.

Therefore, all Christians ought to be in a constant state of alarm and readiness, either because of the clear and present danger all around us, or because they've been blinded by deception. It's up to us to ensure we're following the "Biblical Jesus" and not some "false christ" preached to us by those who are themselves deceived.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTbHLOB5jHyPxt6B3dZfpVCTpDK6VdBUi&si=ww83B43VZDl_9lr-

I doubt that most Christians realize that Satan's main deception is religion, even Christianity.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness,

 

[FaithWillDo]

The "Israel of God" is anyone anywhere who "walk by this rule" of the "new creature" in Christ.

Dear Phoneman777,
You said:
The "Israel of God" is anyone anywhere who "walk by this rule" of the "new creature" in Christ.
Repentance isn't limited to just impenitent/apostate "Israel" as you claim, according to Acts 26:20 KJV

Yes, all converted believers become spiritual Israel and a new creature in Christ. I was referring to physical Israel under the Old Covenant. It was they who needed to transition from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant. John the Baptist came to the nation with the call to repent from their works under the Law. After a person repents, the pathway for Christ to come to them with salvation (Latter Rain) is made straight. The straight way is faith alone in Christ who will do all the necessary works for our salvation. Because it is, once a person is converted, scripture says that they have entered into the rest of Christ. This "rest" is what the Sabbath Day Law foreshadows and why a believer no longer keeps a physical Sabbath Day.

And as I said, repentance also applies to fallen away believers who mix works with faith. As for Gentiles unbelievers, you are right about their repentance being necessary, too. Thanks for showing me Acts 26:20. After considering what Paul said there, here is why Paul is right (it is related to my response to you second question below):

Since all mankind sins, all mankind are children of the Devil. As children of the Devil, they follow Satan's way which is the crooked way. That is why scripture says that Satan is the "crooked serpent" (Job 26:13). The crooked way is religion which is based on man's works. It is also called filthy rags. The false belief that mankind has a free will is the foundation for man's "works". Because all Gentiles believe in their free will ability (whether they practice religion or not), they do have a need to repent of works when they come to Christ.

You said:
Let's be clear: no child of the devil can be a recipient of God's spirit, be it Early Rain, Latter Rain, Purple Rain, It's Raining Men, nothing, understand?

Proof?

God's only gives His spirit to them that obey Him (Acts 5:32 KJV), therefore, since a child of the devil can't obey God even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV) there's no way they have His spirit.

How can any man obey God unless they have the Spirit?

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

All mankind has sinned, and as a result, all mankind are children of the Devil.

1John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

It is Satan who is the god of this world and it is this god who mankind serves. If Christ didn't come to a child of the Devil and freely give them the Early Rain of the Spirit, no one would ever make a confession of faith.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Why can't you accept what this scripture above teaches?

Only a person who has the Spirit (even just the Early Rain) can call Jesus Lord and have any faith in Him. This confession of faith is a gift from God.

As for Acts 5:32:

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Spirit, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Peter is referring to the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The Early Rain is what gives a person faith. With their faith (no works), they are obeying Christ. And because of their faith, the pathway is made "straight" for Christ to come to them a second time and give them the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain). Only with the Latter Rain of the Spirit (and judgment) will a person be changed from a child of the Devil into a child of God. The spiritual process that makes this change within a person is called conversion and it requires Christ to give a person both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit.

I can tell that you are not seeing the Early Rain of the Spirit. You are attributing the faith that the Early Rain gives a person to their supposed free will ability to believe. But mankind has no such ability, and for that reason, Christ must come to a child of the Devil and give them the "Spirit of Faith" (Early Rain) so that they will believe and obey Christ (repentance from works).

The Apostles received the Early Rain when they walked with Christ. At that time, they made a confession of faith and called Him "Lord". They then had to "wait" until the Day of Pentecost for Christ to "come again" and convert them with the Latter Rain.

Paul's conversion experience teaches the same pathway. Paul received the Early Rain on the Damascus Road. It was then that Paul called Jesus "Lord" and submitted to His authority. And like the Apostles, Paul had to wait for the Lord to return and give him the Latter Rain. This event is shown when Ananias (type for Christ) came to Paul three days later.

You said:
So, a minister of Satan dies without salvation, but somehow is eligible for salvation? Not according to Hebrews 9:27 KJV. Universalism dies the death it deserves right here, right or wrong?

You do not understand the judgment of Christ. Here is how Christ will judge the "lost" in the Lake of Fire:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Before the "lost" perish in the Lake of Fire, Christ will have mercy upon them and give them the Early Rain of the Spirit which will give them the faith they need to be saved. After Christ comes to them and gives them the Latter Rain, they will be "born again" and gathered up to heaven just as the First Fruits of the harvest were in this age. The child of the Devil will remain in the Lake of Fire until he is destroyed. This satisfies "justice" and the law which says "the soul that sins shall die" (Eze 18:4)

Judgment is a necessary component of conversion. The old vessel must be destroyed so that the new vessel is created:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Consider these additional verses on Christ's judgment:

Psa 33:5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

Prov 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Job 34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

Jer 4:2 And thou shalt swear, The LORD liveth, in truth, in judgment, and in righteousness; and the nations shall bless themselves in him, and in him shall they glory.

Mankind perverts judgment just as the Pharisees did. However, the Lord will do nothing of the kind. He will administer His judgment to His enemies with love and will bless them with salvation:

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

To show His love for the "lost", Christ will not omit justice, mercy and faith.

CONTINUED ON THE NEXT POST...