Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed

[Phoneman777]

There's a power controlling the world that's responsible for the constant unrest and turmoil and many Christians blame Leftists, Bankers, Islam, Jews, etc., even "right wing" extremists (which are only "extreme" to those who've moved so far left that God, if He exists at all, must be a woman). The truth is that all these agencies are controlled by Satan via a network of Luciferian secret societies whose members are sworn to the strictest secrecy as they pass the torch from one generation to the next, going about their clandestine work of moving the nations toward the final climactic battle between good and evil, controlling politics, education, judicial systems, mass media, and even religion through the papacy in Rome, Satan's "Antichrist" which claims to "take the place of Christ" - the very definition of the term - and a well organized Jesuit Order under which all these secret societies operate. Of course, God is keeping these in check for now, as the angels hold back the "winds of strife" - but soon, those winds will begin to blow hard upon the Earth.

Since the end time deceptions could, if possible, deceive even the very elect, why are so many opposed to "conspiracy theories" - a disparaging term invented by the CIA to discourage public questioning of "official" reports? Christians, being forewarned that deception would define the very end times in which we live, ought to be those most well armed against deception - so the fact that so many scoff at "conspiracy theories" while swallowing whatever is spooned out by CNN or Fox News, by Leftist ideology or popular Conservatism, is strong evidence they may not be among the elect at all, which is most alarming.

Therefore, all Christians ought to be in a constant state of alarm and readiness, either because of the clear and present danger all around us, or because they've been blinded by deception. It's up to us to ensure we're following the "Biblical Jesus" and not some "false christ" preached to us by those who are themselves deceived.

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[Ronald David Bruno]

There's a power controlling the world and causing perpetual unrest, but it ain't the Jews, Bankers, Leftists, Islamists, etc., although these are the most popular suspects Christians identify. The truth is that all these agencies are controlled by Satan via a network of Luciferian secret societies whose members are sworn to the strictest secrecy as they pass the torch from one generation to the next, going about their work of moving the nations toward the final climactic battle between good and evil, controlling politics, education, judicial systems, mass media, and even religion through the papacy in Rome, Satan's "Antichrist" which claims to "take the place of Christ" - the very definition of the term. Of course, God is keeping these in check for now, as the angels hold back the "winds of strife" - but soon, those winds will begin to blow hard upon the Earth.

Jesus Himself said the end time deceptions would be so great that they would, if possible, deceive even the very elect - those who ought to be most effectively armed against deception. So, the very fact that Christians scoff at "conspiracy theories" while swallowing whatever is spooned out by CNN or Fox News - by popular Conservatism or Leftist ideology - proves they're not part of the elect at all, which is most alarming.

Therefore, all Christians ought to be in a constant state of alarm and readiness, either because of the evil presently approaching from across the horizon or because they don't see any evil at all. And, why don't they see it? 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV explains the blindness.

Christians are sensing evil spreading. Not all of us sense an approaching Great Tribulation, since many believe that Christianity itself will spread and eventually transform the planet. This is not what scripture tells though. Many see this NWO in power now. I think the "Plandemic" was a dress rehearsal for this big Great Reset. Conspiracies are real, because this is how Satan influences others to conspire and create deception and confusion ... which leads to destruction, Him devouring his victims. But the Elect will not be snatched out of God's hand. When the Antichrist is revealed and is possessed by Satan himself, he will cause supernatural events to happen. These things will mistakenly interpreted as miracles from God. He will claim to be God. But only those who are not in Christ or at least not on His list will succumb to this deception.
The Elect and future elect are and will be protected.

 

[Phoneman777]

Christians are sensing evil spreading. Not all of us sense an approaching Great Tribulation, since many believe that Christianity itself will spread and eventually transform the planet. This is not what scripture tells though. Many see this NWO in power now. I think the "Plandemic" was a dress rehearsal for this big Great Reset. Conspiracies are real, because this is how Satan influences others to conspire and create deception and confusion ... which leads to destruction, Him devouring his victims. But the Elect will not be snatched out of God's hand. When the Antichrist is revealed and is possessed by Satan himself, he will cause supernatural events to happen. These things will mistakenly interpreted as miracles from God. He will claim to be God. But only those who are not in Christ or at least not on His list will succumb to this deception.
The Elect and future elect are and will be protected.

The Antichrist was already revealed in the 6th century - the papacy.

Does not the "Little Horn" rise among the Ten Horns of the fallen Fourth Beast, the Roman Empire?
Does not the "Man of Sin" arise when the Roman Empire is "taken out of the way", according to the ECFs?
Does not the coming of Jesus follow - not precede - the great "falling away" apostasy - the papal reign?
Did not the papacy "think to change times and laws" by, for one, altering the Ten Commandments?
Is not the papal horn "diverse" from the other 10 secular horns in that it's a religio-potlicial power?
Did not the papacy reign for a time, times, and half a time (1,260 years) from 538 - 1798?
Did not the papacy "make war with the saints" - condemning 50-150 million Christians for "heresy"?
Does not the papacy have a man at the head, the pope, who speaks blasphemy?
Does not the Bible define "blasphemy" as claiming to be God and the power to forgive sin?
Does not the "Whore riding the Beast" aka the "church/state union" reside in the 7 hilled city, Rome?

This evidence and more points to only one possible candidate as "Antichrist" which is why Charles Spurgeon said "no sane man ought to raise the question" as to what Antichrist is:

 

[FaithWillDo]

There's a power controlling the world that's responsible for the constant unrest and turmoil and many Christians blame Leftists, Bankers, Islam, Jews, etc., even "right wing" extremists (which are only "extreme" to those who've moved so far left that God, if He exists at all, must be a woman). The truth is that all these agencies are controlled by Satan via a network of Luciferian secret societies whose members are sworn to the strictest secrecy as they pass the torch from one generation to the next, going about their clandestine work of moving the nations toward the final climactic battle between good and evil, controlling politics, education, judicial systems, mass media, and even religion through the papacy in Rome, Satan's "Antichrist" which claims to "take the place of Christ" - the very definition of the term - and a well organized Jesuit Order under which all these secret societies operate. Of course, God is keeping these in check for now, as the angels hold back the "winds of strife" - but soon, those winds will begin to blow hard upon the Earth.

Since the end time deceptions could, if possible, deceive even the very elect, why are so many opposed to "conspiracy theories" - a disparaging term invented by the CIA to discourage public questioning "official" reports? Christians, being forewarned that deception would define the very end times in which we live, ought to be those most well armed against deception - so the fact that so many scoff at "conspiracy theories" while swallowing whatever is spooned out by CNN or Fox News, by Leftist ideology or popular Conservatism, is strong evidence they may not be among the elect at all, which is most alarming.

Therefore, all Christians ought to be in a constant state of alarm and readiness, either because of the clear and present danger all around us, or because they've been blinded by deception. It's up to us to ensure we're following the "Biblical Jesus" and some "false christ" preached to us by those who are themselves deceived.

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Dear Phoneman777,
Yes, there is a power controlling the thoughts and beliefs of mankind. It is a spiritual power and it originates from God.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Prov 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Nothing in God's creation happens by chance or by mankind's supposed "free will" - and this includes all the evil in the world.

Prov 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Ecc 1:13 An experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the Most High doth not there proceed evil and good?

Never doubt that God is in full control of His creation. He never just allows things to happen because He causes all things to happen.
Because God is in full control, the Elect (a chosen and converted person) should not fight against the evil of this world. The Elect should only being doing "good works" and teaching the truth to others whom God has placed in their path.

2Ti 2:4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Gal 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Consider the evil that was in the world during the time of Christ and the Apostles. Did they fight against it or were they only concerned with teaching the truth and doing good?

And just as Christ and Apostles lived, so should the Elect be living in this world.

One other comment: The "endtimes" has been happening since the Apostles were converted on the Day of Pentecost. The end of the ages is not physical and outward, it is spiritual and inward. The ends of the ages come upon an Elect person when they are converted:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

The only prophesied event that has not occurred yet is the bodily resurrections from the grave. Those resurrections will come after the last Elect person has been converted.

All the prophesies of Revelation and Matthew (among others) are teaching about the spiritual events (signs of the times) that will occur within each Elect person as they travel to their time of conversion. The signs of the times presented by these prophesies are not outward world events which can be seen with human eyes. That is a carnal understanding of God's Word.

The evil that is in the world today is no different than it has been since the world began. It has been ebbing and flowing since Adam/Eve first sinned. After God's purpose for evil has run its course, evil will come to an end. It will end after the last person of mankind has been converted from a child of the Devil into a child of God.

These verses apply:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1Cor 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection from the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

After the last person of mankind has been converted, the ages will come to an end. This day is foreshadowed by the Feast of Ingathering (Tabernacles).

Exo 23:16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours (the salvation of the Elect of this age), which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year (the final age when the balance of mankind is saved), when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.

When that last & great day of the Feast arrives, Christ will make this call to the "lost" and all mankind will be saved:

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, if any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Until that final day, the Elect must wait on the Lord to complete His great work. This is the patience of the saints.

Joe

 

[Michiah-Imla]

 

[O'Darby]

Since the end time deceptions could, if possible, deceive even the very elect, why are so many opposed to "conspiracy theories" - a disparaging term invented by the CIA to discourage public questioning "official" reports?

Uh, no. In recent years, there has been a large body of research, primarily by the psychological and sociological disciplines but also by hard sciences like neuroscience, to identify the profile of those who are prone to be attracted to wild conspiracy theories and imaginary "secret societies." Such thinking isn't necessarily pathological, but it may be. Even when it isn't, a pretty definite psychological profile has been identified. I address this a bit, using myself as the conspiracy-prone example, in this blog entry:

Know Thyself - An Important Aspect of the Journey of Faith

I've previously mentioned Christian philosopher (epistemologist) Alvin Plantinga and his influential Reformed Epistemology. Just to refresh your memory, he argues that Christian belief can be epistemologically justified without any evidence at...

www.christianityboard.com

This is a really interesting book that makes the point that many wild conspiracy theories have had some basis in fact. What actually took place was nothing like the conspiracy theorists imagined, but the supposed conspirators were so hellbent to cover up their own malfeasance that they had only themselves to blame when wild conspiracy theories sprang up: Real Enemies: Conspiracy Theories and American Democracy, World War I to 9/11, Amazon.com.

There is no doubt some truth to what you say, but ascrbing it to "Luciferian secret societies" is right out of Conspiracy Thinking 101. For supernatural evil to be influencing world events does not require "Luciferian secret societies."

It appears that even the SDA have a skeptical view of Walter Veith:

Conspiracy theories​

Spectrum magazine, an independent periodical focusing on Adventism, refers to Walter Veith as the leading conspiratory voice within Adventism.​

​

Without specifically naming Veith, the church's official paper, the Adventist Review, has addressed Veith's conspiracy theories. Veith responded to the Review author explaining his views further.​

​

In May 2020 the head office of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in Southern Africa, the Southern Africa Union Conference, issued a statement repudiating claims that Veith made that Jesus would come around or by 2027.​

​

He has also made claims in recent DVDs that the COVID-19 pandemic is one of the signs of the imminent coming of Christ - in line with his 2027 claim. This is not supported by the church he is a member of.​

Walter Veith - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Phoneman777]

Dear Phoneman777,
Yes, there is a power controlling the thoughts and beliefs of mankind. It is a spiritual power and it originates from God.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Prov 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Nothing in God's creation happens by chance or by mankind's supposed "free will" - and this includes all the evil in the world.

Prov 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Ecc 1:13 An experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the Most High doth not there proceed evil and good?

Never doubt that God is in full control of His creation. He never "allow" things to just happen, He causes all things to happen.

Because God is in full control, the Elect (a chosen and converted person) should not fight against the evil of this world. The Elect should only being doing "good works" and teaching the truth to others whom God has placed in their path.

2Ti 2:4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Gal 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Consider the evil that was in the world during the time of Christ and the Apostles. Did they fight against it or were they only concerned with teaching the truth and doing good?

And just as Christ and Apostles lived, so should the Elect be living in this world.

One other comment: The "endtimes" has been happening since the Apostles were converted on the Day of Pentecost. The end of the ages is not physical and outward, it is spiritual and inward. The ends of the ages come upon an Elect person when they are converted:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

The only prophesied event that has not occurred yet is the bodily resurrections from the grave. Those resurrections will come after the last Elect person has been converted.

All the prophesies of Revelation and Matthew (among others) are teaching about the spiritual events (signs of the times) that will occur within each Elect person as they travel to their time of conversion. The signs of the times presented by these prophesies are not outward, world events which can be seen with human eyes. That is a carnal understanding of God's Word.

The evil that is in the world today is no different than it has been since the world began. It has been ebbing and flowing since Adam/Eve first sinned. After God's purpose for evil has run its course, evil will come to an end. It will end after the last person of mankind has been converted from a child of the Devil into a child of God.

These verses apply:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1Cor 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection from the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

After the last person of mankind has been converted, the ages will come to an end. This day is foreshadowed by the Feast of Ingathering (Tabernacles).

Exo 23:16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours (the salvation of the Elect of this age), which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year (the final age when the balance of mankind is saved), when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.

When that last & great day of the Feast arrives, Christ will make this call to the "lost" and all mankind will be saved:

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, if any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Until that final day, the Elect must wait on the Lord to complete His great work. This is the patience of the saints.

Joe

So, Joe, if God predestines some men for salvation and other for destruction, what's the point of the Gospel?

What's the point of warning people not to reject it?

What's the point of commanding people to "abide" or be "cast into the fire"?

All your verses can easily be interpreted to show they merely represent "foreknowledge", and not necessarily "predestination".

Predestination bears the same satanic "Religion of Exclusivity" mark that identifies Luciferian societies, catholicism, judaism, Mormonism, etc. - the pompous, arrogant idea that "I know the path and you don't, so away from us, ye profane".

 

[Ronald Nolette]

There's a power controlling the world that's responsible for the constant unrest and turmoil and many Christians blame Leftists, Bankers, Islam, Jews, etc., even "right wing" extremists (which are only "extreme" to those who've moved so far left that God, if He exists at all, must be a woman). The truth is that all these agencies are controlled by Satan via a network of Luciferian secret societies whose members are sworn to the strictest secrecy as they pass the torch from one generation to the next, going about their clandestine work of moving the nations toward the final climactic battle between good and evil, controlling politics, education, judicial systems, mass media, and even religion through the papacy in Rome, Satan's "Antichrist" which claims to "take the place of Christ" - the very definition of the term - and a well organized Jesuit Order under which all these secret societies operate. Of course, God is keeping these in check for now, as the angels hold back the "winds of strife" - but soon, those winds will begin to blow hard upon the Earth.

Since the end time deceptions could, if possible, deceive even the very elect, why are so many opposed to "conspiracy theories" - a disparaging term invented by the CIA to discourage public questioning of "official" reports? Christians, being forewarned that deception would define the very end times in which we live, ought to be those most well armed against deception - so the fact that so many scoff at "conspiracy theories" while swallowing whatever is spooned out by CNN or Fox News, by Leftist ideology or popular Conservatism, is strong evidence they may not be among the elect at all, which is most alarming.

Therefore, all Christians ought to be in a constant state of alarm and readiness, either because of the clear and present danger all around us, or because they've been blinded by deception. It's up to us to ensure we're following the "Biblical Jesus" and not some "false christ" preached to us by those who are themselves deceived.

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We should be alert and prepared, but rejoicing and at peace. Even in these last days we are still more than overcomers because of Him who loves us.

 

[Phoneman777]

Uh, no. In recent years, there has been a large body of research, primarily by the psychological and sociological disciplines but also by hard sciences like neuroscience, to identify the profile of those who are prone to be attracted to wild conspiracy theories and imaginary "secret societies."

IDK, friend. The same scientific community which formerly listed "gender dysphoria" in the DSM now advocates trans surgery for minors.

Such thinking isn't necessarily pathological, but it may be. Even when it isn't, a pretty definite psychological profile has been identified. I address this a bit, using myself as the conspiracy-prone example, in this blog entry:

Know Thyself - An Important Aspect of the Journey of Faith

I've previously mentioned Christian philosopher (epistemologist) Alvin Plantinga and his influential Reformed Epistemology. Just to refresh your memory, he argues that Christian belief can be epistemologically justified without any evidence at...

www.christianityboard.com

Two kinds of people: those who immediately suspected the pandemic was a plannedemic when they refused to close the border, and those who are suffering from vaccine remorse (well, most of them).

This is a really interesting book that makes the point that many wild conspiracy theories have had some basis in fact. What actually took place was nothing like the conspiracy theorists imagined, but the supposed conspirators were so hellbent to cover up their own malfeasance that they had only themselves to blame when wild conspiracy theories sprang up: Real Enemies: Conspiracy Theories and American Democracy, World War I to 9/11, Amazon.com.

Check out this series which presents tons of information from those associated with Lucifer himself, detailing their plans which are now coming to pass:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTbHLOB5jHyPxt6B3dZfpVCTpDK6VdBUi&si=jYdpt7YhpTyLVHTL

For instance, in 2007, I learned that the Robert Muller School started by Muller, the former Undersecretary of the U.N., has at its foundation the "World Core Curriculum" which denounces Christianity and pushes other world religions as "equal", denounces nationalism and promotes "world citizenship", denounces traditional families and promotes all things rainbow, etc., and was already guiding the education systems of many nations and would eventually be sent into all nations. So, in 2010, when the "Common Core Curriculum" arrived to the shores of the U.S. and everyone was blowing their stack concerning crazy Math and graphic sex for minors, I already knew what was up and ensured my kids stayed out of public school.

Why?

Listen to Muller himself: "The underlying philosophy upon which the Robert Muller School is based will be found in the teachings set forth in the books of Alice A. Bailey".

Who's A. A. Bailey? Unknown to most but absolutely well known to the power brokers of our planet, and only the person who started a publishing company with her husband called "Lucifer Publishing Company" and wrote many books on how great and wonderful Lucifer is, and how she was called "to prepare the world for the Coming One. I have no other life intention".

There is no doubt some truth to what you say, but ascrbing it to "Luciferian secret societies" is right out of Conspiracy Thinking 101. For supernatural evil to be influencing world events does not require "Luciferian secret societies."

Of course there's no doubt when the Luciferians dangle their secrets in plain sight - which is why I don't take statements like this seriously. The Dunning-Kruger effect seems most prevalent among anti-confederacy folks.

It appears that even the SDA have a skeptical view of Walter Veith:

Conspiracy theories​

Spectrum magazine, an independent periodical focusing on Adventism, refers to Walter Veith as the leading conspiratory voice within Adventism.​

​

Without specifically naming Veith, the church's official paper, the Adventist Review, has addressed Veith's conspiracy theories. Veith responded to the Review author explaining his views further.​

​

In May 2020 the head office of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in Southern Africa, the Southern Africa Union Conference, issued a statement repudiating claims that Veith made that Jesus would come around or by 2027.​

​

He has also made claims in recent DVDs that the COVID-19 pandemic is one of the signs of the imminent coming of Christ - in line with his 2027 claim. This is not supported by the church he is a member of.​

Walter Veith - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's "Laodicean". I've no doubt we've Jesuits in our midst, but that's not going to be a problem much longer. When the Final Events of Bible Prophecy unfold, the massive "shaking" will shake out the hypocrites, leaving God's remnant to shine for Jesus when He comes soon after.

 

[FaithWillDo]

So, Joe, if God predestines some men for salvation and other for destruction, what's the point of the Gospel?

What's the point of warning people not to reject it?

What's the point of commanding people to "abide" or be "cast into the fire"?

All your verses can easily be interpreted to show they merely represent "foreknowledge", and not necessarily "predestination".

Predestination bears the same satanic "Religion of Exclusivity" mark that identifies Luciferian societies, catholicism, judaism, Mormonism, etc. - the pompous, arrogant idea that "I know the path and you don't, so away from us, ye profane".

Dear Phoneman777,
God's Word clearly says that Christ will save all mankind. I quoted just three of the scriptures that state so.

In this age, Christ is only saving those people who have been blessed to be saved early. That is why they are called the "First Fruits" (James 1:18) of Christ's harvest of mankind.

Also, by saying that the Elect are chosen by God because God "foreknew" who would accept Christ and who would reject Him is very insulting to God.

Scripture says that God "chose" the Elect to satisfy His own purposes. The Elect have no works from which they can boast concerning their salvation. God did not look into the future like a fortuneteller and then claim that He chose them after finding out who is going to accept Christ. That makes God out to be a liar and a deceiver.

Here is the truth that God's Word teaches:

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.

As for what scripture teaches about God's foreknowledge, it says that His foreknowledge comes from the CERTAINTY that God always accomplishes what He says will do.

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

Also, God's Word teaches that carnal mankind will never come to Christ of their own accord:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So what changes for a person when they decide to accept Jesus as Lord?

What changes for a person is that Christ (from His own choosing) comes to them and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. Without the Early Rain of the Spirit, they would never call Jesus "Lord":

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

The Early Rain of the Spirit is what the Apostles received when they walked with Christ and it is what Paul received on the Damascus Road.

If a person does not have faith in Christ, it is because Christ has not come to them and given them the Holy Spirit.

In this age, most people will not be given the Early Rain of the Spirit and they will remain unbelievers until they die. However, "many" will be given the Early Rain of the Spirit. It is they who Christ calls into the church.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Then, from the group of many who enter the church, Christ will give a "few" of them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. They are the Elect and are the only people who will be saved in this age since salvation requires both the Early and Latter Rains:

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

To understand why the "many" who are given only the Early Rain of the Spirit are not saved, we must look at other scripture (here a little and there a little, Isa 28:9-12).

When an unbeliever is given the Early Rain of the Spirit, they will be given a "measure of faith" - however, they will still remain spiritually blind (Mark 8:15-25). Because of their blindness, Christ will remain veiled from their understanding. Satan will then come to the new believer and easily deceive them via the spirit of anti-Christ (Mat 12:43-45). This is what caused the apostasy of the church shortly after the death of Paul (Acts 20:29-31).

When the spirit of anti-Christ enters a new believer, the Abomination of Desolation will occur within that person (God's temple). This unclean spirit will deceive them into accepting Satan's "another gospel" (2Cor 11:4) which mixes man's works with faith. When they commit this "sin that leads to death" (1John 5:16), they will "fall away" (Heb 6:1-8) and lose their salvation.

In this "worse than the first" spiritual condition (Mat 12:43-45), they will become a "man of sin". They will remain in this lost condition until they die or until Christ "comes again" and pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit upon them. The Latter Rain of the Spirit is also called the Spirit of Truth (John 16:13), because with the Latter Rain, the believer's spiritual blindness will be healed. After the fallen away believer's eyes are opened, they will "see" the Abomination of Desolation (Mat 24:15-16) which had previously occurred within them. Because of this knowledge, judgment will fall on them and remove the spirit of anti-Christ & the Great Harlot (Mat 24:40-41). After this judgment is complete, the believer will be converted and saved.

The Early Rain of the Spirit calls many into the church but only the people who are chosen will also be given the Latter Rain. This is how Christ differentiates the "many" called from the "few" who are called & chosen.

In the final age, Christ will judge the balance of mankind. When He does, He will not forget to administer "justice, mercy and faith" during their judgment:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Justice is satisfied by the destruction of the child of the devil. Mercy and faith are satisfied by the new birth of a child of God.

In the end, all mankind will be saved, just as the Word of God proclaims.

Joe

 

[Duck Muscles]

There's a power controlling the world that's responsible for the constant unrest and turmoil and many Christians blame Leftists, Bankers, Islam, Jews, etc., even "right wing" extremists (which are only "extreme" to those who've moved so far left that God, if He exists at all, must be a woman). The truth is that all these agencies are controlled by Satan via a network of Luciferian secret societies whose members are sworn to the strictest secrecy as they pass the torch from one generation to the next, going about their clandestine work of moving the nations toward the final climactic battle between good and evil, controlling politics, education, judicial systems, mass media, and even religion through the papacy in Rome, Satan's "Antichrist" which claims to "take the place of Christ" - the very definition of the term - and a well organized Jesuit Order under which all these secret societies operate. Of course, God is keeping these in check for now, as the angels hold back the "winds of strife" - but soon, those winds will begin to blow hard upon the Earth.

Since the end time deceptions could, if possible, deceive even the very elect, why are so many opposed to "conspiracy theories" - a disparaging term invented by the CIA to discourage public questioning of "official" reports? Christians, being forewarned that deception would define the very end times in which we live, ought to be those most well armed against deception - so the fact that so many scoff at "conspiracy theories" while swallowing whatever is spooned out by CNN or Fox News, by Leftist ideology or popular Conservatism, is strong evidence they may not be among the elect at all, which is most alarming.

Therefore, all Christians ought to be in a constant state of alarm and readiness, either because of the clear and present danger all around us, or because they've been blinded by deception. It's up to us to ensure we're following the "Biblical Jesus" and not some "false christ" preached to us by those who are themselves deceived.

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As God allows.

 

[Cassandra]

So, Joe, if God predestines some men for salvation and other for destruction, what's the point of the Gospel?

What's the point of warning people not to reject it?

What's the point of commanding people to "abide" or be "cast into the fire"?

All your verses can easily be interpreted to show they merely represent "foreknowledge", and not necessarily "predestination".

Predestination bears the same satanic "Religion of Exclusivity" mark that identifies Luciferian societies, catholicism, judaism, Mormonism, etc. - the pompous, arrogant idea that "I know the path and you don't, so away from us, ye profane".

Yes, and if that were who God was, even if I were one of the elect, i wouldn't want to live with Him. But we know the He is not; He wants all to repent, He loves all of us. He doesn't love Calvinists more than others. and if any particular Calvinists are wearing their salvation because they think Jesus thinks they alone are special, I don't think they'd make it to Heaven anyway with that attitude.

 

[Duck Muscles]

Yes, and if that were who God was, even if I were one of the elect, i wouldn't want to live with Him. But we know the He is not; He wants all to repent, He loves all of us. He doesn't love Calvinists more than others. and if any particular Calvinists are wearing their salvation because they think Jesus thinks they alone are special, I don't think they'd make it to Heaven anyway with that attitude.

Interestingly, the Witnesses believe that from 33 A.D forward, 144,000 Christians shall be resurrected unto heaven so to live eternally with God.

 

[Behold]

There's a power controlling the world that's responsible for the constant unrest and turmoil

The "god of this world".

 

[Michiah-Imla]

God's Word clearly says that Christ will save all mankind.

This is an unbiblical statement.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Yes, and if that were who God was, even if I were one of the elect, i wouldn't want to live with Him. But we know the He is not; He wants all to repent, He loves all of us. He doesn't love Calvinists more than others. and if any particular Calvinists are wearing their salvation because they think Jesus thinks they alone are special, I don't think they'd make it to Heaven anyway with that attitude.

Dear Cassandra,
Yes, God loves all mankind and that is why He sent Christ into the world:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

However, to satisfy God's own purposes, God established a plan that will only save a few people in this age. They are vessels of honor. In the final age, Christ will save the rest of mankind. They are vessels of dishonor. But in the end, all mankind will be saved.

Paul addressed your concerns about "election" in the verses below:

Rom 9:11 Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

God's ways are not mankind's ways. If they were, mankind would understand God:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

In order to show His love to mankind, God has chosen to give His love and mercy to a few people in this age. They are NOT SPECIAL because that implies that they did something to make themselves special. However, they are blessed. And through these few blessed individuals, Christ will save the rest of mankind. That is the purpose for the Elect.

In the final age, Christ and the Elect will make this call to the lost:

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

After the last person in the final age is saved, this verse will be proven true:

Rom 5:15 But shall not the act of favour be as the offence? For if by the offence of one the many have died, much rather has the grace of God, and the free gift in grace, which is by the one man Jesus Christ, abounded unto the many.

Salvation is a free gift that will be given to all mankind. It cannot be earned, nor can it be refused as the apostate church teaches. In the end, all mankind will freely drink of the water of life (Holy Spirit). After they do, the only decision they will make is to call Jesus "Lord":

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

I am sure that you believe that Christ died on the cross for your sins, but has Christ given you enough faith to believe everything that He has said in scripture?

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

This is an unbiblical statement.

Dear Michiah-Imla,

Here are just a few scriptures that prove you wrong:

1Cor 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection from the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

1Tim 4:10 For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe. 11 These things command and teach.

2Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Your beliefs make Christ out to be dependent upon mankind for their salvation. But Christ needs no help from mankind to save them, and in fact, mankind has nothing to offer Christ towards their salvation. Mankind is totally at the mercy of Christ to save them. To believe otherwise, a believer is committing the sin that leads to death. That sin is to mix "works" with faith. The foundation of this false belief system is the Doctrine of Free Will. When a believer commits this sin of mixing in their own works with the works of Christ, they are saying that Christ's works are not sufficient to save them. This is the deception taught by Satan's false gospel which has been spread into this world by the apostate church.

Christ is the Savior. He alone is responsible to save mankind and that is why mankind's salvation is a certainty.

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1Cor 13:8 Love never fails;

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Joe

 

[Phoneman777]

Dear Phoneman777,
God's Word clearly says that Christ will save all mankind. I quoted just three of the scriptures that state so.

In this age, Christ is only saving those people who have been blessed to be saved early. That is why they are called the "First Fruits" (James 1:18) of Christ's harvest of mankind.

Also, by saying that the Elect are chosen by God because God "foreknew" who would accept Christ and who would reject Him is very insulting to God.

Scripture says that God "chose" the Elect to satisfy His own purposes. The Elect have no works from which they can boast concerning their salvation. God did not look into the future like a fortuneteller and then claim that He chose them after finding out who is going to accept Christ. That makes God out to be a liar and a deceiver.

Here is the truth that God's Word teaches:

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.

As for what scripture teaches about God's foreknowledge, it says that His foreknowledge comes from the CERTAINTY that God always accomplishes what He says will do.

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

Also, God's Word teaches that carnal mankind will never come to Christ of their own accord:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So what changes for a person when they decide to accept Jesus as Lord?

What changes for a person is that Christ (from His own choosing) comes to them and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. Without the Early Rain of the Spirit, they would never call Jesus "Lord":

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

The Early Rain of the Spirit is what the Apostles received when they walked with Christ and it is what Paul received on the Damascus Road.

If a person does not have faith in Christ, it is because Christ has not come to them and given them the Holy Spirit.

In this age, most people will not be given the Early Rain of the Spirit and they will remain unbelievers until they die. However, "many" will be given the Early Rain of the Spirit. It is they who Christ calls into the church.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Then, from the group of many who enter the church, Christ will give a "few" of them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. They are the Elect and are the only people who will be saved in this age since salvation requires both the Early and Latter Rains:

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

To understand why the "many" who are given only the Early Rain of the Spirit are not saved, we must look at other scripture (here a little and there a little, Isa 28:9-12).

When an unbeliever is given the Early Rain of the Spirit, they will be given a "measure of faith" - however, they will still remain spiritually blind (Mark 8:15-25). Because of their blindness, Christ will remain veiled from their understanding. Satan will then come to the new believer and easily deceive them via the spirit of anti-Christ (Mat 12:43-45). This is what caused the apostasy of the church shortly after the death of Paul (Acts 20:29-31).

When the spirit of anti-Christ enters a new believer, the Abomination of Desolation will occur within that person (God's temple). This unclean spirit will deceive them into accepting Satan's "another gospel" (2Cor 11:4) which mixes man's works with faith. When they commit this "sin that leads to death" (1John 5:16), they will "fall away" (Heb 6:1-8) and lose their salvation.

In this "worse than the first" spiritual condition (Mat 12:43-45), they will become a "man of sin". They will remain in this lost condition until they die or until Christ "comes again" and pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit upon them. The Latter Rain of the Spirit is also called the Spirit of Truth (John 16:13), because with the Latter Rain, the believer's spiritual blindness will be healed. After the fallen away believer's eyes are opened, they will "see" the Abomination of Desolation (Mat 24:15-16) which had previously occurred within them. Because of this knowledge, judgment will fall on them and remove the spirit of anti-Christ & the Great Harlot (Mat 24:40-41). After this judgment is complete, the believer will be converted and saved.

The Early Rain of the Spirit calls many into the church but only the people who are chosen will also be given the Latter Rain. This is how Christ differentiates the "many" called from the "few" who are called & chosen.

In the final age, Christ will judge the balance of mankind. When He does, He will not forget to administer "justice, mercy and faith" during their judgment:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Justice is satisfied by the destruction of the child of the devil. Mercy and faith are satisfied by the new birth of a child of God.

In the end, all mankind will be saved, just as the Word of God proclaims.

Joe

I see. Thanks.

 

[Phoneman777]

Yes, and if that were who God was, even if I were one of the elect, i wouldn't want to live with Him. But we know the He is not; He wants all to repent, He loves all of us. He doesn't love Calvinists more than others. and if any particular Calvinists are wearing their salvation because they think Jesus thinks they alone are special, I don't think they'd make it to Heaven anyway with that attitude.

Apparently, no one is going to hell. "Universalism" is a popular yet unBiblical doctrine.

 

[Phoneman777]

This is an unbiblical statement.

Universalism comforts people in their sins, but Christ gives us victory over them.