Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed

[Ritajanice]

OK Christian Soldier
You like to ramble and babble.

If you don't know what the word IF means....I leave it for you to find out.

As to the rest,,,,
I reply to scripture.

The thing is, you “ aren’t” replying to the penned word...I’ve posted reams of scripture to you....you dismiss it and deflect by keep asking me to post how we become Born Again...you are a troll I’m afraid.

I think it best @Christian Soldier and I put you on ignore.

 

[GodsGrace]

The problem with your opinion here is, that you fail to admit that everything you think you know and believe has been spoon fed to you by men.
You never discovered anything for yourself. To say that I have embraced the counsel of a man who invented my religion is very hypocritical of you, when you have done the exact same thing.

You can't even read a singe verse of scripture, without twisting it's entire meaning to force it into your false religion. The only difference with my theology and yours is, mine is backed by the Word of God and yours is backed by some cult leader and it can't be supported by the Bible.

Only a fool would list 2 verses of scripture in isolation and try to build a false doctrine upon them, and you can't even see it because it's a case of the blind leading the blind. I have showed you how foolish your theology is, you should repent of it, instead of trying to defend something that's dead in the water.

Ummm....
I posted an actual verse.
or two, can't remember.
Which YOU apparently cannot understand because of your preconceived notions.

As to the rest...
It is YOU that is following a man...

I'm following Jesus Christ.

You must do a lot of twisting of scripture since you're so intent on accusing others of doing this.

Reply with scripture or don't reply at all.

 

[GodsGrace]

LOL...did you not know that becoming Born Again is by divine revelation.

Understanding of it?

How can I explain it to you if you aren’t Born Of The Spirit?

You obviously don’t know what being Born Again by divine revelation means

What has Christianity got to do with our spirit being Born Again by divine revelation?


I’ve already quoted scripture on how we become Born Again...you obviously can’t understand it...no problem...you must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God...only Gods Living witness His Living Holy Spirit can testify to our heart / spirit that we are Gods child..

It’s a Living spirit birth...it’s mind blowing !!...just as the word says...Born Again of incorruptible/ imperishable seed/ Born Of The Spirit/ Born Again/ Born Of God’s seeds...that how we become Born Again.....God doesn’t say we are Born Again by joining Christianity...you see, this is where it can become confusing, you add to Gods word...

Only you don’t confuse me I have the gift of discernment...like quite a few on here have...

You aren’t in any position to say what you say regarding Gods word, you lead yourself through scripture, anyone can read that.

You can’t even explain how “ you” know God?..by what means?

You need to know God in your spirit, you need His Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit..to regenerate your spirit...bring it to life in Christ Spirit...of course this wouldn’t make sense to you .....one thing for sure @GodsGrace one knows 100% when they have been Born Again by divine revelation....it blows one’s mind, to be recognised by the Spirit of God!

My opinion/ testimony and belief...

Our conversation is over RJ

I won't be replying to any more of your posts.

 

[Ritajanice]

I'm following Jesus Christ.

You are following the penned word...by your own understanding/ intellect...that is what you are doing.

You can’t even explain how you know that Jesus existed...how many times have I asked you that..it’s a simple question...all you do is deflect after deflect and so it continues.

1 Corinthians 12:3​

“Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.”

I am now going to put you on ignore.

 

[Christian Soldier]

OK Christian Soldier
You like to ramble and babble.

If you don't know what the word IF means....I leave it for you to find out.

As to the rest,,,,
I reply to scripture.

OK, so "IF" Pigs could fly means they do fly in your language. How pathetic, and you wanna interpret scripture???. You can't even understand what a simple word like if means but you think you can handle scripture, well Pigs will fly.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Ummm....
I posted an actual verse.
or two, can't remember.
Which YOU apparently cannot understand because of your preconceived notions.

As to the rest...
It is YOU that is following a man...

I'm following Jesus Christ.

You must do a lot of twisting of scripture since you're so intent on accusing others of doing this.

Reply with scripture or don't reply at all.

What's the point in replying with scripture, when you simply butcher every verse you see. You have never accepted a singe word of scripture, without twisting, changing and butchering it. You have no theological defense, so you resort to attacking the messenger.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What?
EG,
Read it again please and be honest:

Read what I posted and your response? Read what? I explained it to you

John 5:26-29
26“For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
27and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Yes, Those who are saved are those who do good deeds not sure why you think I do not understand this, I have stated this all alongt.

Those who are not Gods will not do good deeds and will be delievered to Christ for judgment.

The same author said he who sins has never seen or known God. Same thing in a different way. The same author also said whoever is bron of God can not live in sin.. so what do we know abo9ut these people? That they do good deeds. why? because they are born of God. the same author in his gospel and in his epistle is united in what he said.

Now, be honest.....does the above speak of a Bema Seat?
Don't bring any preconceived ideas to it....
WHAT DOES IT STATE?

It speaks of one group being ressurected to life and one to judgment,

It does not say anything about the bema seat. But it does speak about a judgment, and only one group goes to this judgment, which judgment is this?

Jesus NEVER mentioned a Bema Seat.
Jesus spoke about behavior and about OBEYING Him.

No but paul did.

Romans 14:10
But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

The greek word used here is BEMA, as apposed to the great white throne judgment, where the greek word is Krino,
there are two different greek words used, God has a reason for this

We also know That those at the "krino" judgment are delievered to Christ. not raised by him.. No one born og God will be present at that judgment unless (As I have heard before but not sure I agree) we are called as a witness.

Paul also tells us what the BEMA judgment will look like, The bema judgment is a reward ceremony.

1 Cor 3:
9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

As you can see, even the one who had his work burnt in the fire, will still be saved even as through fire (the picture here is of a person who's house catches fire. and he escapes the flames, And loses everythign he owned, and has nothing to show for his life.. But he is still alive, as he escaped through the fire..

We should not mislead new Christians but speak plainly about what Jesus taught (and the writers).

I agree, That goes for both of us..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Bingo!

Great point.

It is OUR CHOICE as to whether or not we wish to be saved....
and even to remain saved.

We are free to walk away from God at any time.

That does not mean anyone would

and even if we did, it does not mean God will leave us..

 

[GodsGrace]

Read what I posted and your response? Read what? I explained it to you

Yes, Those who are saved are those who do good deeds not sure why you think I do not understand this, I have stated this all alongt.

Those who are not Gods will not do good deeds and will be delievered to Christ for judgment.

But it doesn't say that.
Where does it say anything about being saved?
Jesus said we're to be BORN AGAIN of the SPIRIT in John 3.
After that all he spoke about was behavior and how to get into heaven.

The verse simply states:
God gave Jesus the authority to execute judgment.
HOW will be be judged?

THOSE WHO DID GOOD DEEDS TO A RESURRECTION OF LIFE .
THOSE WHO COMMITTED THE EVIL DEEDS TO A RESURRECTION OF JUDGMENT. (literal woding).

Where does Jesus speak anywhere about being born again or being saved?
He's speaking about BEHAVIOR....ACTIONS....DOING.

Verse 21 states that Jesus will give life TO WHOM HE CHOOSES.
It states nothing about being born again or being saved.

We are born again .... our spirit is born. John 3:5
After this Jesus spoke about behavior and doing good deeds
because it is precisely those that are born again that MUST do GOOD DEEDS.

It's not a choice.

Verse 23 states that we must honor the Son (as He honored the Father).

What does it mean to HONOR the Son?
It must surely mean to do as He says....
like Mary instructed the waiters at the wedding at Cana...
DO AS HE SAYS.

WHAT does Jesus tell us to do if not to obey His commands and do good deeds?

The same author said he who sins has never seen or known God. Same thing in a different way. The same author also said whoever is bron of God can not live in sin.. so what do we know abo9ut these people? That they do good deeds. why? because they are born of God. the same author in his gospel and in his epistle is united in what he said.

Sounds like you're supporting MY statements...
So why don't you agree?

It speaks of one group being ressurected to life and one to judgment,

It does not say anything about the bema seat. But it does speak about a judgment, and only one group goes to this judgment, which judgment is this?

I don't know EG.
You're going to have to tell me.
One group in John 5:28 is going to a LIFE of resurrection.....heaven.
The other one is going to that other place....
I don't read anything about any other type of judgment.

No but paul did.

Romans 14:10
But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

The greek word used here is BEMA, as apposed to the great white throne judgment, where the greek word is Krino,
there are two different greek words used, God has a reason for this

We also know That those at the "krino" judgment are delievered to Christ. not raised by him.. No one born og God will be present at that judgment unless (As I have heard before but not sure I agree) we are called as a witness.

Paul also tells us what the BEMA judgment will look like, The bema judgment is a reward ceremony.

1 Cor 3:
9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

As you can see, even the one who had his work burnt in the fire, will still be saved even as through fire (the picture here is of a person who's house catches fire. and he escapes the flames, And loses everythign he owned, and has nothing to show for his life.. But he is still alive, as he escaped through the fire..

So now you believe in purgatory!

1 Corinthians 3 is speaking about HOW workers should BUILD upon what the Apostles began.
Some will build very welll
and some will not.
Some will build as gold and silver and precious stones.
Some will build as wood and hay...

Verse 13 It is their WORK that will be judged --- not the person who is only building on the work of the Apostles.

Good workers OF THE WORD will be rewarded...
The work of others will be burned but not the PERSON.

It is not speaking about good works/deeds.

As to the judgment and bema seat.....I believe we should read what JESUS said, and which Paul reiterated...
and then DO and LIVE as Jesus said

and we need to understand that this is NECESSARY...
it is not a choice.

Your statements, like those of others on these Forums, make it sound like it's a choice to obey.
IT IS NOT.

 

[GodsGrace]

That does not mean anyone would

and even if we did, it does not mean God will leave us..

Sure it does.
Many have walked away from God.
It's too easy to say they really never beleived.
Too many verses stating that it IS possible.

And did you see my post where I tagged you?
What do you make of it?
You said you didn't believe persons like this were out there.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But it doesn't say that.
Where does it say anything about being saved?

1. The bible says this
2. Jesus said they were raised to righteounsess. How much more saved can you get?

Jesus said we're to be BORN AGAIN of the SPIRIT in John 3.

Yes.

After that all he spoke about was behavior and how to get into heaven.

Yes, By looking to the cross in faith..

How many people look to the cross in faith.

vs how many look to the cross. and then add works to the cross. what is their true faith in? their works, or the cross? (as an example. the Jews said yes the cross. then added circumcision and other works of the law. how is that any different than adding water baptism, or the sacraments of the catholic church or works of other Christian churches?

are these churches better than the Jews? Paul condemned these jews for doing this, but its ok for Christian churches to do this because they use the name of Christ?

The verse simply states:
God gave Jesus the authority to execute judgment.
HOW will be be judged?

You will be judged by Gods standard.

1. You will be judged by Christ as saved based on his blood washing you and making your clean

Or

2. you will be judged by your works because you rejected Christ in unbelief.

THOSE WHO DID GOOD DEEDS TO A RESURRECTION OF LIFE .

There is salvation,

It does not say they are resurected BECAUSE they did good deeds. It says these people who did good deed are resurected to life

Let me ask you. How good is good enough. How many good deeds do I have to do to earn my salvation?

THOSE WHO COMMITTED THE EVIL DEEDS TO A RESURRECTION OF JUDGMENT. (literal woding).

Yes, Judgement, The great white throne judgment, where they will all be sent to hell..

Why? They were not found written in the book of life..

Where does Jesus speak anywhere about being born again or being saved?
He's speaking about BEHAVIOR....ACTIONS....DOING.

lol.. Your looking for something to help you maybe? I take the whole word of God as a whole. I can not look to this passage and determine anything by it standing alone..

But if you want to try, feel free.

Verse 21 states that Jesus will give life TO WHOM HE CHOOSES.
It states nothing about being born again or being saved.

So are you turning Calvin one me now?

What is the will of God?

The he who sees and believes will never perish, but live forever.

Not he who does good. Not he who did more good deeds then bad deeds.

FAITH is the standard

He who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already..

We are born again .... our spirit is born. John 3:5
After this Jesus spoke about behavior and doing good deeds
because it is precisely those that are born again that MUST do GOOD DEEDS.

No.

WE WILL DO GOOD DEEDS

Your looking to self. Stop looking to self and look to God. We do good deeds for the following reasons

1. We are born of God
2. We have a new nature, we are a new creation
3. We have the HS who will convict and chasten us, much like he Did Jonah, although for the most part. not as severe.

Did Jonah act out of his own will? Like the Calvinist said, or did he do what God said, even begrudgingly..

It's not a choice.

Yes it is a choice. Ever minute of every day we have a choice. Walk in step with the spirit. to look to the flesh and serve self.

Verse 23 states that we must honor the Son (as He honored the Father).

Who is going to honor the son? The one the son saved even though they have not earned that salvation. Or the person who thinks they can save themself or outright rejects God?

What does it mean to HONOR the Son?
It must surely mean to do as He says....
like Mary instructed the waiters at the wedding at Cana...
DO AS HE SAYS.

Seek after the things of the spirit.

Gods people do this.. Not out of obligation. Out of gratitude, and love, we love because he first loved us

WHAT does Jesus tell us to do if not to obey His commands and do good deeds?

I am not sure of your question

Sounds like you're supporting MY statements...
So why don't you agree?

Because I do not agree we must do good works to save ourselves

I believe we are saved for good works which we will do. because we are a new creation in Christ, old thangs have passed away all things are now.

And I like paul. and confident that he who began a good work in me WILL COMPETE it.

I don't know EG.
You're going to have to tell me.
One group in John 5:28 is going to a LIFE of resurrection.....heaven.
The other one is going to that other place....
I don't read anything about any other type of judgment.

Read john 3,

He who believes is not condemned, they are going to heave, why? because they believe, They do good works because they are a new creature. so by practice, those who do good deeds are those who were saved by Faith

Those who do not believe are going to judgment, why? because they did not believe, John tells us they continue in lawlessness because they are lost. they have never met Christ. and he never knew them.

So now you believe in purgatory!

No. I never said this, why would you say I do??

1 Corinthians 3 is speaking about HOW workers should BUILD upon what the Apostles began.
Some will build very welll
and some will not.
Some will build as gold and silver and precious stones.
Some will build as wood and hay...

Verse 13 It is their WORK that will be judged --- not the person who is only building on the work of the Apostles.

Good workers OF THE WORD will be rewarded...
The work of others will be burned but not the PERSON.

It is not speaking about good works/deeds.

As to the judgment and bema seat.....I believe we should read what JESUS said, and which Paul reiterated...
and then DO and LIVE as Jesus said

and we need to understand that this is NECESSARY...
it is not a choice.

Your statements, like those of others on these Forums, make it sound like it's a choice to obey.
IT IS NOT.

lol. Ok, You have some studying to do.

11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

1. ANYONE is context here. Not the apostles.
2. Each one (your and Mine both if we are saved) work will be tried.
3. If our work does not endure. we will BE SAVED as through fire.

 

[PinSeeker]

Jesus is discussing the Bread of Life.....Himself. Verse 35 Everyone who aligns with Jesus hungers no more. EVERYONE. Who ALIGNS with Jesus. No word about God choosing anyone or CAUSING this alignment. You could explain your understanding of this plain statement better - if you can.

Ah, if I can... <chuckles>...

Yes, He is the bread of life, certainly. But He's addressing their belief, and/or lack thereof. The passage:

"I am the bread of life; whoever comes to Me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in Me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day."

Yes, "whoever comes to Me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in Me shall never thirst," He says. And then immediately after, He says, "But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe." So, "whoever comes," yes, but... even though He has said to them that they have seen Him ~ the bread of life ~ yet they still do not believe. And why do they not believe? Why have they not "aligned with Jesus?" I know you just hate me repeating myself, but... <smile>

• In John 8, Jesus says, "...I tell the truth, you do not believe me," and then asks, "If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me?" and then immediately answers His own question to them, saying, "Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God." This is the exact opposite of your position, which would be, whoever hears ~ believes ~ the words of God is of God, and the reason they are not of God is because they do not hear (believe) them." Graphically, Jesus says, "If A then B," or, B depends on A, but your position is "if B then A." or, A depends on B.
• The same is true in John 10, where ~ in reply to the Jews' questions, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly” ~ Jesus says to them, “I told you, and you do not believe... but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep..." (His sheep, the ones His Father has given Him, verse 29). Again, this is the exact opposite of your position, which would be that they are not among His sheep because they do not believe. And again, graphically, Jesus says, "If A then B," or, B depends on A, but you say, "if B then A," or, A depends on B.

Every person the Father gives to Jesus goes happily to be with Jesus.

Absolutely, Because, GodsGrace, God has given them to Jesus... they are no longer of their father the devil (John 8) but are now of God, they have been given to Jesus by the Father and are thus His sheep (John 10).

WHO DOES THE FATHER GIVE TO JESUS?

We agree on this, of course, in and of itself.

Those that come to believe in Jesus. John 3:16... Acts 16:31... John 5:24 WHOEVER hears the voice of God and believes in Jesus has eternal life.

Sure, absolutely, but why do they really hear, and why do they believe? See above. John 5:24... Yes, certainly, Jesus says, "Whoever hears My..." (Jesus's word) "...word and believes Him Who sent Me..." (the Father) "...has eternal life." This is directly after He has just said, "For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom He will."

Catch that? It takes both God and Jesus.

Ah, well, is Jesus not God? :) The second person of the triune Jehovah, right? :) So, yes, absolutely, and the Holy Spirit, too... :)

God calls everyone and WHOEVER HEARS and believes in Jesus will have eternal life.

Absolutely. See above.

Whoever goes to Jesus, HE will HOLD ON TO.
Jesus will not let anyone go.

Absolutely. Which is such a very succinct ~ but wonderful ~ way to summarize what John Calvin, in refutation of Jacobus Arminius's mistaken point regarding the perseverance of the saints, which is that by the exercise of free will, believers can turn away or fall away from grace and lose their salvation. Like Eternally Grateful, you are here confirming your full acceptance of Calvin's position here and are (at least) a one-point Calvinist. :)

Acts 11:21 The HAND OF THE LORD was with them, and a great number who BELEIVED turned to the Lord.

Yes, here again, GodsGrace, what is clearly indicated here is that because the hand of the Lord was with them, that great number believed and turned to the Lord. There's

Sure. No one can snatch you out of God's hand.

Correct.

BUT You can walk away.

Well, if God does not have you in His hand, sure. And because we are in God's hand, and thus Jesus's sheep, we will never, even of our own free will, walk away. As Paul says, "Who..." ~ and we ourselves are included in this 'who' ~ "...shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? ... For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:37-39)

And again ~ ohhhh, here I go repeating myself again... :) ~ but only because you're going back on what you just said, namely, "Whoever goes to Jesus, HE will HOLD ON TO. Jesus will not let anyone go..." ~

• "...He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1:6)
• "...He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time" (1 Peter 1:3-5).
• "...let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith" (Hebrews 12:2).
• "(God) is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of His glory with great joy..." (Jude 24)

...we have FREE WILL PS.

Certainly we do, GG... See above.

Something YOU do not believe in...

Ohhhhh, I most certainly do... See above.

and so confusion is caused.

No, just lack of acceptance... But it's not about John Calvin... :)

To be continued...

 

[PinSeeker]

Continued from above...

Are you serious?

Yes. :)

Jesus said this to the Apostles.

Well, at that point, they were not yet apostles, they were disciples ~ followers of Jesus ~ just as you and I are, which is why we can say that everything He said to them applies to us also. :)

He chose THEM to be Apostles.

Disciples. He chose them to follow Him. Later apostles, for sure, but disciples. As such... well, see above. I'm trying not to repeat myself so much, because I know how you hate that. :) But, well, who's really at fault for that...? :)

Try reading it again without your calvin colored glasses on.

Hmmm... :)

We already discussed this. Seems like a conflict.

That's the problem; you've actually created this conflict yourself. Even within what you say, there is irresolvable conflict.

Yes sir. We're being guarded. Very true. But how? Read it again.... THROUGH FAITH The same FAITH that saved us when we first believed. Romans 13:11

Ah, yes, but what is this faith, GG? How is faith defined... by the Bible itself? We've talked about it. Who gives this assurance? Who convicts?

Sure. And look at Jude a few verses before the one you posted. Did you read this one? Jude 1:20-23

Yes. :)

Verse 20: We are to BUILD OURSELVES UP in our faith.

Sure, but we do not give ourselves faith (assurance, conviction), as we do not maintain ourselves in it; rather it is the creating act of God (birth of the Spirit) and sustaining power of God (again, by the Spirit) in us. We certainly encourage ourselves ~ and we encourage others in this way ~ using our spiritual gifts ~ gifts of the Holy Spirit ~ for the common good (1 Corinthians 12), even... faith (1 Corinthians 12:9)... Iron sharpens iron, as we say, referring, possibly inadvertently but directly to Proverbs 27:17... one man sharpens another. To build ourselves/others up in something, to encourage ourselves and others in something, GodsGrace, we ~ and they ~ must first already have it. :)

Verse 21: We are to KEEP OURSELVES in the love of God.

If that is to be understood as you think it is, GodsGrace, then ~ and this is just one example, but ~ how do you reconcile it with what Paul says at the end of Romans 8, that "...neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation..." ~ which is absolute and includes everyone and everything, even we ourselves ~ "...will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."...?

And again, you're going back here on what you yourself just said, namely that "Whoever goes to Jesus, HE will HOLD ON TO. Jesus will not let anyone go." Do you believe that or not, GG?

So yes, God can keep us from stumbling, IF we, of our own FREE WILL, allow Him to.

Having had our hearts turned from stone to flesh, our free will will certainly be to not sin... though we still fail from time to time, perhaps even often ~ to keep in step with and walk in the Spirit, as Paul puts it in Galatians 5. God is faithful ~ "He who promised is faithful" (Hebrews 10:23).

This is so simple, I won't even reply.

Well, I agree that it's very simple... :)

Do persons who do NOT abide in Christ, have Christ?

Absolutely, GodsGrace, but having Christ is the very issue! Sorry... don't mean to shout... :) Christ Himself says (and I've pointed this before, more than once...), "No one can come to me unless the Father draws him" (John 6:44).

Easy.

Yes... :)

There you have your verses explained to you.

But not... well. :)

The rest is babble...

Ahhh... :)

and I will not address babble.

Hmm, well, suit yourself. :)

Perhaps SOMEDAY YOU can reply to MY verses...

I have, just... not in the way you want me to... obviously. :)

in the same manner that I reply to yours?

You mean in a quarrelsome, disparaging way? Yeah, no, not me. :)

Easier to play verse ping pong.

God's Word explains itself; God is His own arbiter.

Which I will no longer be doing with you BTW.

Suit yourself. That's... certainly your... free will... See what I did there? :)

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sure it does.

God said he would never leave nor forsake us, He did not say unless you leave me, He said never.

Its Gods reputation at stake.. Does God keep his promises or not?

Many have walked away from God.
It's too easy to say they really never beleived.
Too many verses stating that it IS possible.

I can just go by the word. not by my feelings

John said they were never of us, if they were of us they never would have left.

And did you see my post where I tagged you?
What do you make of it?
You said you didn't believe persons like this were out there.

That post of his was kind of legalistic. I did not know how to respond. I watched game of thrones and loved it for entertainment. am I lost because I watched a work of fiction.

I was also a fan of Steven king books, does that make me unsaved?

I left legalism like that. its why I fight so hard against it..

 

[PinSeeker]

When is your book coming out? You sure do like to talk a lot and just keep repeating the same things.

Well, whose fault is that...? :)

Reply to my last post.

I... did... :)

WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL BE SAVED.

Yes, and the ones who do are the ones that have been called by the LORD...

I can repeat too PS.

Yes you can. :)

What you've posted DOES NOT explain John 3:16 to the satisfaction of anyone here that is not Calvinist in soteriology.

Well, to you, or to anyone else who is Arminian in soteriology. Right. Understood. Although... I wouldn't be too sure... :)

Explain this if you can:

Ah, if I can... :)

Romans 5:1 THEREFORE having been JUSTIFIED by FAITH....

Romans 3:25 whom God displayed publicly as a PROPITIATION in His blood THROUGH FAITH.

To both of these, two questions. Asked of you above, but here again...

1. What is the Biblical definition of faith?
2. How does one obtain it? and/or Who gives it?

Will you get Hebrews 11:1 right this time? Or... will you repeat yourself? :)

Romans 6:16 ...When you PRESENT YOURSELVES to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one WHOM YOU OBEY.

I'm not sure what you want me to explain here, to be honest. That obedience is a free working of our will? Well, if so, sure it is, But you might remember:

• "And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules." (Ezekiel 36:27).
• "I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide." (John 15:16)
• "...by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Now, please explain the above just as I explained approx 7 or 8 of your verses a few posts ago.

Okay, well, there you go. :)

It would be greatly appreciated.

Hmmm... it seems not... :)

I'm sure the non-calvinists on this thread are waiting for you to explain how the above verses do not support FREE WILL.

Well I hope not, because they do not "not support FREE WILL." Just on this one thing we agree. :) What they support, GodsGrace, is the fact that ~ as Paul clearly states in Romans 9:16, "it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy."

And how they do not explain HOW one is saved.

This is the issue, GodsGrace. Or at least one of them... :) It's not about whether or will is free or not (of course it is), and it's not even really about human will at all. Focusing so hard ~ and so intransigently ~ on human will, free as it is ~ is totally missing (perhaps an avoidance of, sometimes at least) the issue. The issue is the state, the condition, of the heart, and whether it remains a heart of stone, or, by His Spirit, God has made it ~ re-made it, really ~ into a heart of flesh. Whether one is still dead in his sin, or has ~ again, by His Spirit ~ been resurrected in spirit.

Thanks.

Ah. Well, thanks to you, too. :)

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

Yes. You love to repeat.

I do, actually... :) Yes, repeating excerpts of God's Word is a joy.

Guess you have nothing else to add.

Yes, nothing need be added to God's Word. What more can He say than to us He has said, to us, Who for refuge to Jesus have fled? Love How Firm a Foundation; probably my favorite hymn. Hard to pick just one, but that's probably it.

There's enough meat on your plate. Take care of that for now.

LOL!

Grace and peace to you, GodsGrace. Especially grace... :)

 

[GodsGrace]

1. The bible says this
2. Jesus said they were raised to righteounsess. How much more saved can you get?

Yes.

Yes, By looking to the cross in faith..

How many people look to the cross in faith.

vs how many look to the cross. and then add works to the cross. what is their true faith in? their works, or the cross? (as an example. the Jews said yes the cross. then added circumcision and other works of the law. how is that any different than adding water baptism, or the sacraments of the catholic church or works of other Christian churches?

are these churches better than the Jews? Paul condemned these jews for doing this, but its ok for Christian churches to do this because they use the name of Christ?

You will be judged by Gods standard.

1. You will be judged by Christ as saved based on his blood washing you and making your clean

Or

2. you will be judged by your works because you rejected Christ in unbelief.



There is salvation,

It does not say they are resurected BECAUSE they did good deeds. It says these people who did good deed are resurected to life

Let me ask you. How good is good enough. How many good deeds do I have to do to earn my salvation?

Yes, Judgement, The great white throne judgment, where they will all be sent to hell..

Why? They were not found written in the book of life..



lol.. Your looking for something to help you maybe? I take the whole word of God as a whole. I can not look to this passage and determine anything by it standing alone..

But if you want to try, feel free.

So are you turning Calvin one me now?

What is the will of God?

The he who sees and believes will never perish, but live forever.

Not he who does good. Not he who did more good deeds then bad deeds.

FAITH is the standard

He who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already..

No.

WE WILL DO GOOD DEEDS

Your looking to self. Stop looking to self and look to God. We do good deeds for the following reasons

1. We are born of God
2. We have a new nature, we are a new creation
3. We have the HS who will convict and chasten us, much like he Did Jonah, although for the most part. not as severe.

Did Jonah act out of his own will? Like the Calvinist said, or did he do what God said, even begrudgingly..



Yes it is a choice. Ever minute of every day we have a choice. Walk in step with the spirit. to look to the flesh and serve self.



Who is going to honor the son? The one the son saved even though they have not earned that salvation. Or the person who thinks they can save themself or outright rejects God?



Seek after the things of the spirit.

Gods people do this.. Not out of obligation. Out of gratitude, and love, we love because he first loved us

I am not sure of your question

Because I do not agree we must do good works to save ourselves

I believe we are saved for good works which we will do. because we are a new creation in Christ, old thangs have passed away all things are now.

And I like paul. and confident that he who began a good work in me WILL COMPETE it.

Read john 3,

He who believes is not condemned, they are going to heave, why? because they believe, They do good works because they are a new creature. so by practice, those who do good deeds are those who were saved by Faith

Those who do not believe are going to judgment, why? because they did not believe, John tells us they continue in lawlessness because they are lost. they have never met Christ. and he never knew them.

No. I never said this, why would you say I do??

lol. Ok, You have some studying to do.

11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

1. ANYONE is context here. Not the apostles.
2. Each one (your and Mine both if we are saved) work will be tried.
3. If our work does not endure. we will BE SAVED as through fire.

I just cannot reply to everything else....we just go round and round and will get nowhere.
The important thing is that we do good works.
If you want to say it's because we want to, OK.
It's better than what that other member stated that even sinners can go to heaven.
I hope you read his post, because you tell me you don't know anyone who claims this.
Well, now you read it for yourself.
And YOU are just a step away from sounding like him....at least to ears that are not sensitive.

As to 1 Corinthians 3 there's a misunderstanding here.
Probably something I said wrongly.

The WORKS in Corinth has to do with spreading the gospel.
It's not only the Apostles that do this....we're doing it right now.

The verses start with speaking about BEING OF APOLLO.....
Only JESUS is the foundation.
WE must build upon that foundation.

Some of us will do a good job.....gold etc.
Some of us will not....hay etc.

IOW, we're not going to hell because we didn't do such a good job of spreading the Kingdom which is built on Jesus....
But we could have done a better job.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I just cannot reply to everything else....we just go round and round and will get nowhere.
The important thing is that we do good works.
If you want to say it's because we want to, OK.
It's better than what that other member stated that even sinners can go to heaven.
I hope you read his post, because you tell me you don't know anyone who claims this.
Well, now you read it for yourself.
And YOU are just a step away from sounding like him....at least to ears that are not sensitive.

As to 1 Corinthians 3 there's a misunderstanding here.
Probably something I said wrongly.

The WORKS in Corinth has to do with spreading the gospel.
It's not only the Apostles that do this....we're doing it right now.

The verses start with speaking about BEING OF APOLLO.....
Only JESUS is the foundation.
WE must build upon that foundation.

Some of us will do a good job.....gold etc.
Some of us will not....hay etc.

IOW, we're not going to hell because we didn't do such a good job of spreading the Kingdom which is built on Jesus....
But we could have done a better job.

Everyone who gets to heaven is a sinner.

Unless we are perfect. We have this against is

if we keep the whole law. Yet stumble (it is not even in purpose, but we stumbled on one command, even the least of all commands by the way) we are guilty of the whole law

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the wholelaw, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all

Every person walking the earth is guilty, Whether you are raised to eternal life, or delievered for judgment, everyone is guilty

the thing that separates the two is belief,

he who believes is not condemned,

he who does not believe is condemned already

Like I said, I read his post. He was prety legalistic there.

 

[GodsGrace]

I do, actually... :) Yes, repeating excerpts of God's Word is a joy.


Yes, nothing need be added to God's Word. What more can He say than to us He has said, to us, Who for refuge to Jesus have fled? Love How Firm a Foundation; probably my favorite hymn. Hard to pick just one, but that's probably it.


LOL!

Grace and peace to you, GodsGrace. Especially grace... :)

Like many on this thread you enjoy babbling but not getting down to serious business.
So please don't expect anymore responses from me.

 

[GodsGrace]

Everyone who gets to heaven is a sinner.

And there you have it.

We're all just sinners....
So what differentiates us from non-believers?

I am NOT A SINNER.
I am a child of God who may/can sin at times because we don't have our glorified bodies yet.
But John made provision for us:
Children of God.

1 John 2:1
1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

There you have it in a nutshell EG:
John called the believers CHILDREN OF GOD....
He did NOT call them sinners.
Sinners live a life of sin....

John is writing so that WE MAY NOT SIN.....
He exhorts us NOT TO SIN...
BUT
IF we do sin, Jesus is our advocate.


1 John 3:1 states AGAIN that we are CHILDREN OF GOD.
1See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are.


So if you want to call yourself A SINNER....
go right ahead...
but speak for yourself.
I'm hoping most on this thread are children of God.

Unless we are perfect. We have this against is

if we keep the whole law. Yet stumble (it is not even in purpose, but we stumbled on one command, even the least of all commands by the way) we are guilty of the whole law

Oh for goodness sake.
Stop already.

So you can't be perfect...
so you just give up and call us all sinners?

No sir.

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the wholelaw, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all

Every person walking the earth is guilty, Whether you are raised to eternal life, or delievered for judgment, everyone is guilty

the thing that separates the two is belief,

he who believes is not condemned,

he who does not believe is condemned already

Like I said, I read his post. He was prety legalistic there.

He was legalistic?
Legalistic is when someone says we have to live by the LAW OF MOSES as in the OT.
Legalistic is when a teen is brought to the edge of town because he misbehaved and the village
stones him to death.
Legalistic is when an adulterous woman gets stoned to death.

The other member stated plainly and clearly that we could live A SINFUL LIFE
and STILL BE SAVED.

This is an abhorant teaching and is not found anywhere in the NT and anyone who teaches this will incur the wrath of
God.

James 3:1
1Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.