Elijah And The Dreadful Day

[whirlwind]

I was talking about those who went into egypt...what is your scriptural reason to say I am mistaken that those who went to egypt were going in disobedience? They were the remnant left over...if you read the account fully you'll see that Nebuchudnezza had put Gedeliah in charge of those remaining over in Judah, but they killed Gedeliah and were then in fear of the reprisal from Babylon. So they asked Jeremiah for Gods assistence and direction. When God instructed them to remain in Judah and he would protect them, they didnt believe that Jeremiah was telling them the truth and so gathered the remaining ones up and they all went to Egypt together...the wives of the king and the men of Judah and the daughters...they all went along willingly...they were not forced to go.

At this God pronounced his anger at their disobedience and said that he would allow them to be taken by the sword of all the kingdoms around them. They were doomed...all of them. Jeremiah was an exception because he was telling them to stay in Judah as God had commanded.

Yes, they were going in disobedience but were all of them in disobedience? Jeremiah was the one standing there telling them DON'T GO TO EGYPT! They were not simply gathered to join the procession and happily dance off to Egypt. They were TAKEN. The daughters were in the care of Jeremiah....Jeremiah was the one telling them not to go. Do you think after telling them not to go that Jeremiah willingly went with them?

Jeremiah 43:1- 2 And it came to pass, that when Jeremiah had made an end of speaking unto all the people all the words of the LORD their God, for which the LORD their God had sent him to them, even all these words, Then spake Azariah the son of Hoshaiah, and Johanan the son of Kareah, and all the proud men, saying unto Jeremiah, Thou speakest falsely: the LORD our God hath not sent thee to say, Go not into Egypt to sojourn there:


43:4-6 So Johanan the son of Kareah, and all the captains of the forces, and all the people, obeyed not the voice of the LORD, to dwell in the land of Judah. But Johanan the son of Kareah, and all the captains of the forces, took all the remnant of Judah, that were returned from all nations, whither they had been driven, to dwell in the land of Judah; Even men, and women, and children, and the king's daughters, and every person that Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard had left with Gedaliah the son of Ahikam the son of Shaphan, and Jeremiah the prophet, and Baruch the son of Neriah.​

Remember, in [Jeremiah 42 & 43] God tells us who this "Johanan and captains of the forces" were. They WERE NOT God's people. They followed another god for they said to Jeremiah.....Thou speakest falsely: the LORD our God hath not sent thee to say, Go not into Egypt to sojourn there: [43:2]

Now with regard to the tree. You need to read further in the account to the point where Nebudcudnezz comes to realise that all rulerships belong to God....even his own kingdoms rulership

Yes...I know what the king of Babylon does. Please understand...the king of Babylon represents SATAN.

You see, all rulerships on this earth stand in their relative positions only because God allows them, if he wants to chop them down he can, if he wants to build them up he can because God is the ultimate authority no matter who is ruling the world. This tree was to show the king that the rulership really belonged to God. Notice also that God left the rootstock of the tree in the ground and put a band around it and said " to the one whom he wants to he gives it." God has the power to remove kings or to make kings... the one who was finally given the ultimate authority was in fact Jesus Christ who is now ruling from the throne of God situated in heaven.

Yes...I know all rulership is because God allows it. But...The tree under discussion, the tree in Daniel, is NOT OF GOD. In the previous post you said.....

"The tree representing Gods rulership is found in Daniel chpt 4. God gave the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar a vision about an immense tree which Daniel explained for him. This was after Babylon had destroyed Judah and Nebuchadnezzar was the king ruling in place of a Judean king....it was as if Nebuchadnezzar was ruling in place of God."

That isn't correct. There are two trees in the garden. One of those trees is the one Daniel spoke of. And...it isn't the Tree of Life.

 

[JarBreaker]

Ive always considered the tree of Dan. 4 as being a universal description of sin in any man ... leave the stump of his roots in the earth, this means that sin can take hold in a man's heart again.

Pagans would search for a stump that seemingly dead, had new growth ... a new twig or sprout. This symbolized rebirth to them.

Nebachadnetsar was made this example because he was the greatest ruler on earth at the time.

4:10 ... the height thereof was great 4:11 ... the height thereof reached unto heaven

This is referring to the pride which is at the root of all sin, Nebad. was the greatest ruler at the time and his pride grew until it was as satan.

 

[skyangel]

You said....the cedar represents the righteous. I said it can't be for the cedar is brought down. As you pointed out in the verse you quoted.....God tells us "the righteous shall flourish." Being brought down and flourishing are two different things.

So...certainly Jesus left His high place but that isn't what the passage refers to. Biblical trees refer to men. The cedars, and there are some good and some bad cedars, are men in the house of the Lord. Christ was The Tree of Life...the only One. He was not one of the cedars.



You are mistaken.

What makes you think you are not mistaken ?

 

[whirlwind]

Whirlwind to Skyangel -
You said....the cedar represents the righteous. I said it can't be for the cedar is brought down. As you pointed out in the verse you quoted.....God tells us "the righteous shall flourish." Being brought down and flourishing are two different things.

So...certainly Jesus left His high place but that isn't what the passage refers to. Biblical trees refer to men. The cedars, and there are some good and some bad cedars, are men in the house of the Lord. Christ was The Tree of Life...the only One. He was not one of the cedars.

You are mistaken.

What makes you think you are not mistaken ?

On what point am I mistaken? That the righteous flourish? That Christ was the Tree of Life? That Christ was not a cedar? That Biblical trees refer to men?

 

[skyangel]

On what point am I mistaken? That the righteous flourish? That Christ was the Tree of Life? That Christ was not a cedar? That Biblical trees refer to men?

I agree that biblical trees do refer to men in a sense but more particularly to the spirits inside men.
I agree that the righteous flourish like a PALM tree. according to Psalm 92:12.
I agree that Christ is the tree of Life.
I do not agree with you that Christ is not represented by the cedar.

Let's look at the cedar tree,
We both agree it represents the righteous, do we not? Who is more righteous than Jesus?
How can the cedar represent the righteous and at the same time in your opinion not represent Jesus who is the most righteous of all?
Christ can be represented by more than one tree. He is not just the tree of life but also represented as a vine and also many other things.

Psalm 92:12 says the righteous flourish like a PALM Tree.. What does that mean to you? How does a Palm tree flourish? What does a Palm tree represent to you ?
Psalm 92:12 also says the righteous will GROW like Cedar. What does that mean to you ? How does a Cedar GROW? What does a Cedar represent to you ?

Who is more Righteous than Christ?
Did Christ GROW like a CEDAR and flourish like a PALM tree or not ?

If you are going to make a Cedar represent anything at all, then in order to be consistent in its meaning and Truth it must represent the same thing in every scripture which names a Cedar in the word of God.

The Hebrew word for Palm tree is TAMAR which comes from an unused root meaning to be erect , upright.
The Hebrew word for Cedar is EREZ which comes from the root word "ARAZ" meaning to be firm and strong.

The cedar pine ( Cedrus conifera) is known for the firmness of its roots, tallness and wide spreading ability with branches growing nearly straight out. It's wood has no knots and is not liable to decay. It was used to build and adorn the temple and royal palaces. The ancient Egyptians used its resin in mummification.
Their very name came to symbolize strength, magnificence, firmness and stability.

Now please look at the natural properites of the cedars of Lebanon and tell me how those qualities do not represent Christ in the Spiritual sense since you are claiming a Cedar does not represent Christ.?

Is Christ like a Cedar in the spiritual sense or not? If you still say No, please explain why not?

Whatever you chose to make the cedar represent in the bible, it must be something which is stable and firm and applies to every scripture in the bible where a cedar is mentioned. If it does not then it is not a truthful or reliable representation.

 

[whirlwind]

I agree that biblical trees do refer to men in a sense but more particularly to the spirits inside men.
I agree that the righteous flourish like a PALM tree. according to Psalm 92:12.
I agree that Christ is the tree of Life.
I do not agree with you that Christ is not represented by the cedar.

Let's look at the cedar tree,
We both agree it represents the righteous, do we not? Who is more righteous than Jesus?
How can the cedar represent the righteous and at the same time in your opinion not represent Jesus who is the most righteous of all?
Christ can be represented by more than one tree. He is not just the tree of life but also represented as a vine and also many other things.

Psalm 92:12 says the righteous flourish like a PALM Tree.. What does that mean to you? How does a Palm tree flourish? What does a Palm tree represent to you ?
Psalm 92:12 also says the righteous will GROW like Cedar. What does that mean to you ? How does a Cedar GROW? What does a Cedar represent to you ?

Who is more Righteous than Christ?
Did Christ GROW like a CEDAR and flourish like a PALM tree or not ?

If you are going to make a Cedar represent anything at all, then in order to be consistent in its meaning and Truth it must represent the same thing in every scripture which names a Cedar in the word of God.

The Hebrew word for Palm tree is TAMAR which comes from an unused root meaning to be erect , upright.
The Hebrew word for Cedar is EREZ which comes from the root word "ARAZ" meaning to be firm and strong.

The cedar pine ( Cedrus conifera) is known for the firmness of its roots, tallness and wide spreading ability with branches growing nearly straight out. It's wood has no knots and is not liable to decay. It was used to build and adorn the temple and royal palaces. The ancient Egyptians used its resin in mummification.
Their very name came to symbolize strength, magnificence, firmness and stability.

Now please look at the natural properites of the cedars of Lebanon and tell me how those qualities do not represent Christ in the Spiritual sense since you are claiming a Cedar does not represent Christ.?

Is Christ like a Cedar in the spiritual sense or not? If you still say No, please explain why not?

Whatever you chose to make the cedar represent in the bible, it must be something which is stable and firm and applies to every scripture in the bible where a cedar is mentioned. If it does not then it is not a truthful or reliable representation.

Okay....


1 Chronicles 22:4 Also cedar trees in abundance: for the Zidonians and they of Tyre brought much cedar wood to David.

Who was of Tyre and Zidon for they provided abundant cedar trees?​

Psalm 29:4-5 The voice of the LORD is powerful; the voice of the LORD is full of majesty. The voice of the LORD breaketh the cedars; yea, the LORD breaketh the cedars of Lebanon.

Isaiah 2:12-14 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low: And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan, And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up,

Jeremiah 22:6-8 For thus saith the LORD unto the king's house of Judah; Thou art Gilead unto me, and the head of Lebanon: yet surely I will make thee a wilderness, and cities which are not inhabited. And I will prepare destroyers against thee, every one with his weapons: and they shall cut down thy choice cedars, and cast them into the fire. And many nations shall pass by this city, and they shall say every man to his neighbour, Wherefore hath the LORD done thus unto this great city?

Ezekiel 31:2-4 Son of man, speak unto Pharaoh king of Egypt, and to his multitude; Whom art thou like in thy greatness? Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs. The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent her little rivers unto all the trees of the field.

Who did the Assyrian represent? Do you still see the cedar as Christ?​

 

[skyangel]

Okay....


1 Chronicles 22:4 Also cedar trees in abundance: for the Zidonians and they of Tyre brought much cedar wood to David.

Who was of Tyre and Zidon for they provided abundant cedar trees?​

Psalm 29:4-5 The voice of the LORD is powerful; the voice of the LORD is full of majesty. The voice of the LORD breaketh the cedars; yea, the LORD breaketh the cedars of Lebanon.

Isaiah 2:12-14 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low: And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan, And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up,

Jeremiah 22:6-8 For thus saith the LORD unto the king's house of Judah; Thou art Gilead unto me, and the head of Lebanon: yet surely I will make thee a wilderness, and cities which are not inhabited. And I will prepare destroyers against thee, every one with his weapons: and they shall cut down thy choice cedars, and cast them into the fire. And many nations shall pass by this city, and they shall say every man to his neighbour, Wherefore hath the LORD done thus unto this great city?

Ezekiel 31:2-4 Son of man, speak unto Pharaoh king of Egypt, and to his multitude; Whom art thou like in thy greatness? Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs. The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent her little rivers unto all the trees of the field.

Who did the Assyrian represent? Do you still see the cedar as Christ?​

Yes I still see the cedar as Christ. I am in Him and He is in me. Many of the hypocrites perceived Christ as evil and of the devil. They still do today. They perceived Him as being full of pride and making Himself equal with God. They saw his attitude as blasphemous and still do today.
The cedars are the children of God, the Sons of God, who are very proud to be His children and do not hide that pride. Jesus is the first born of them all who set the example for them to follow. He came down from heaven and was made in the likeness of men and even became sin ( How much lower can you get than to become the embodiment of all evil? ) so those who believe in Him would be made righteous. The righteousness of the Sons of God exceeds the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees. The voice of the Lord breaks them and makes them molds them like clay in the hands of a potter. The Lord brings all His children down to the lowest of lows. even to the same "hell" fire into which Jesus went to preach to the prisoners in Love and Humility knowing that those who believe in Him will be set free from their hell and fully knowing that those who rejected Him would kill and destroy His flesh.
The Sons of God, live and abide in the fire and are consumed by the fire but not burned by it. They thrive in the fire of God. They become flames of fire.
My God is a consuming fire and I live and abide in Him and He lives and abides in me. The Sons of God are a city set on a hill, a fire and a light to the world which cannot be hid.

Jesus Christ is the root of the tree which is the lowest part of the tree as well as the top or highest part of the tree. The whole tree is His body, not just the top of it or the roots of it which are buried in the ground, but ALL of it including the branches and twigs and leaves and fruit. We are one.

Isaiah 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, [there is] no beauty that we should desire him.

Many people make the mistake of only seeing Jesus Christ as glorified and as the highest of all. They fail to also see Him as the lowest of all. They tend to ignore that part. Why do you think they ignore it? Is it because they dont wish to follow Him all the way to His death but prefer to claim the gift of resurrection life without needing to die first? They want a free ticket into heaven witghout following Jesus to the lowest of lows but merely by "claiming" His gifts?

John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will [my] Father honour.

How many people follow Jesus to the pit of hell before they are raised in newness of life? Very FEW according the Word of God.

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Who was cast out of the world by the hypocritical Pharisees? Was it Jesus or was it the devil who they crucified ?
Who or what was crucified on the cross? Righteousness or sin ?

2 Cor 5:21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

[whirlwind]

Yes I still see the cedar as Christ. I am in Him and He is in me. Many of the hypocrites perceived Christ as evil and of the devil. They still do today. They perceived Him as being full of pride and making Himself equal with God. They saw his attitude as blasphemous and still do today.
The cedars are the children of God, the Sons of God, who are very proud to be His children and do not hide that pride. Jesus is the first born of them all who set the example for them to follow. He came down from heaven and was made in the likeness of men and even became sin ( How much lower can you get than to become the embodiment of all evil? ) so those who believe in Him would be made righteous. The righteousness of the Sons of God exceeds the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees. The voice of the Lord breaks them and makes them molds them like clay in the hands of a potter. The Lord brings all His children down to the lowest of lows. even to the same "hell" fire into which Jesus went to preach to the prisoners in Love and Humility knowing that those who believe in Him will be set free from their hell and fully knowing that those who rejected Him would kill and destroy His flesh.
The Sons of God, live and abide in the fire and are consumed by the fire but not burned by it. They thrive in the fire of God. They become flames of fire.
My God is a consuming fire and I live and abide in Him and He lives and abides in me. The Sons of God are a city set on a hill, a fire and a light to the world which cannot be hid.

Jesus Christ is the root of the tree which is the lowest part of the tree as well as the top or highest part of the tree. The whole tree is His body, not just the top of it or the roots of it which are buried in the ground, but ALL of it including the branches and twigs and leaves and fruit. We are one.

Isaiah 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, [there is] no beauty that we should desire him.

Many people make the mistake of only seeing Jesus Christ as glorified and as the highest of all. They fail to also see Him as the lowest of all. They tend to ignore that part. Why do you think they ignore it? Is it because they dont wish to follow Him all the way to His death but prefer to claim the gift of resurrection life without needing to die first? They want a free ticket into heaven witghout following Jesus to the lowest of lows but merely by "claiming" His gifts?

John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will [my] Father honour.

How many people follow Jesus to the pit of hell before they are raised in newness of life? Very FEW according the Word of God.

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Who was cast out of the world by the hypocritical Pharisees? Was it Jesus or was it the devil who they crucified ?
Who or what was crucified on the cross? Righteousness or sin ?

2 Cor 5:21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

You are changing the subject Skyangel.

I too am in Him and He is in me.
I understand that He is the root of Jesse
I know we must die.
I too am a Son of God​

However...He IS NOT the cedar.

 

[skyangel]

You are changing the subject Skyangel.

I too am in Him and He is in me.
I understand that He is the root of Jesse
I know we must die.
I too am a Son of God​

However...He IS NOT the cedar.

He is obviously not the Cedar in your opinion or perspective since you obviously don't or can't see Him the way I do. He is the Cedar to me and I am part of Him.

If Christ is NOT the Cedar in your opinion, then who does the Cedar represent in your opinion ?

Malachi 4:5-6 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.


Please consider that....Elijah is already here and has been for some time....

Matthew 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Matthew 11:13-15 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.​

On the mount of Transfiguration, standing with Christ, who is The Word, was Moses and Elijah/Elias...representing the prophets and the law contained in The Word. The "Elijah the prophet" sent before the dreadful day is found in...the two witnesses that testify of The Word, the law and the prophets.

As stated above....if ye will receive it....Elias is all the prophets and the law. He is here now in the witnesses as we testify and that testimony turns the hearts of the children to their respective Father or father.

Getting back to the first post, since you think I am changing the subject, Do you think Elias/ Elijah included Jesus or do you think it only includes the law and prophets till John. What about after John ?
When did the day of the "dreadful day" of the Lord begin ?

 

[whirlwind]

He is obviously not the Cedar in your opinion or perspective since you obviously don't or can't see Him the way I do. He is the Cedar to me and I am part of Him.

If Christ is NOT the Cedar in your opinion, then who does the Cedar represent in your opinion ?

My opinion? Or...what is written?

Ezekiel 17:2-6 Son of man, put forth a riddle, and speak a parable unto the house of Israel; And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; A great eagle with great wings, longwinged, full of feathers, which had divers colours, came unto Lebanon, and took the highest branch of the cedar: He cropped off the top of his young twigs, and carried it into a land of traffick; he set it in a city of merchants. He took also of the seed of the land, and planted it in a fruitful field; he placed it by great waters, and set it as a willow tree. And it grew, and became a spreading vine of low stature, whose branches turned toward him, and the roots thereof were under him: so it became a vine, and brought forth branches, and shot forth sprigs.

17:7-13 There was also another great eagle with great wings and many feathers: and, behold, this vine did bend her roots toward him, and shot forth her branches toward him, that he might water it by the furrows of her plantation. It was planted in a good soil by great waters, that it might bring forth branches, and that it might bear fruit, that it might be a goodly vine. Say thou, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Shall it prosper? shall he not pull up the roots thereof, and cut off the fruit thereof, that it wither? it shall wither in all the leaves of her spring, even without great power or many people to pluck it up by the roots thereof. Yea, behold, being planted, shall it prosper? shall it not utterly wither, when the east wind toucheth it? it shall wither in the furrows where it grew. Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Say now to the rebellious house, Know ye not what these things mean? tell them, Behold, the king of Babylon is come to Jerusalem, and hath taken the king thereof, and the princes thereof, and led them with him to Babylon; And hath taken of the king's seed, and made a covenant with him, and hath taken an oath of him: he hath also taken the mighty of the land:

17:19- 24 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; As I live, surely Mine oath that he hath despised, and My covenant that he hath broken, even it will I recompense upon his own head. And I will spread My net upon him, and he shall be taken in My snare, and I will bring him to Babylon, and will plead with him there for his trespass that he hath trespassed against Me. And all his fugitives with all his bands shall fall by the sword, and they that remain shall be scattered toward all winds: and ye shall know that I the LORD have spoken it. Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will also take of the highest branch of the high cedar, and will set it; I will crop off from the top of his young twigs a tender one, and will plant it upon an high mountain and eminent: In the mountain of the height of Israel will I plant it: and it shall bring forth boughs, and bear fruit, and be a goodly cedar: and under it shall dwell all fowl of every wing; in the shadow of the branches thereof shall they dwell. And all the trees of the field shall know that I the LORD have brought down the high tree, have exalted the low tree, have dried up the green tree, and have made the dry tree to flourish: I the LORD have spoken and have done it.​

Our Father explains the riddle Himself. The cedar is not Christ.

Getting back to the first post, since you think I am changing the subject, Do you think Elias/ Elijah included Jesus or do you think it only includes the law and prophets till John. What about after John ?
When did the day of the "dreadful day" of the Lord begin ?

Elijah is all the prophets...including those of today. The difference is today's prophets don't foretell new things. They prophesy what the Spirit reveals...deeper revelations of His Word.

I don't believe the dreadful day has yet begun. It is heralded by the seventh and last trumpet.

 

[skyangel]

My opinion? Or...what is written?

Ezekiel 17:2-6 Son of man, put forth a riddle, and speak a parable unto the house of Israel; And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; A great eagle with great wings, longwinged, full of feathers, which had divers colours, came unto Lebanon, and took the highest branch of the cedar: He cropped off the top of his young twigs, and carried it into a land of traffick; he set it in a city of merchants. He took also of the seed of the land, and planted it in a fruitful field; he placed it by great waters, and set it as a willow tree. And it grew, and became a spreading vine of low stature, whose branches turned toward him, and the roots thereof were under him: so it became a vine, and brought forth branches, and shot forth sprigs.

17:7-13 There was also another great eagle with great wings and many feathers: and, behold, this vine did bend her roots toward him, and shot forth her branches toward him, that he might water it by the furrows of her plantation. It was planted in a good soil by great waters, that it might bring forth branches, and that it might bear fruit, that it might be a goodly vine. Say thou, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Shall it prosper? shall he not pull up the roots thereof, and cut off the fruit thereof, that it wither? it shall wither in all the leaves of her spring, even without great power or many people to pluck it up by the roots thereof. Yea, behold, being planted, shall it prosper? shall it not utterly wither, when the east wind toucheth it? it shall wither in the furrows where it grew. Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Say now to the rebellious house, Know ye not what these things mean? tell them, Behold, the king of Babylon is come to Jerusalem, and hath taken the king thereof, and the princes thereof, and led them with him to Babylon; And hath taken of the king's seed, and made a covenant with him, and hath taken an oath of him: he hath also taken the mighty of the land:

17:19- 24 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; As I live, surely Mine oath that he hath despised, and My covenant that he hath broken, even it will I recompense upon his own head. And I will spread My net upon him, and he shall be taken in My snare, and I will bring him to Babylon, and will plead with him there for his trespass that he hath trespassed against Me. And all his fugitives with all his bands shall fall by the sword, and they that remain shall be scattered toward all winds: and ye shall know that I the LORD have spoken it. Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will also take of the highest branch of the high cedar, and will set it; I will crop off from the top of his young twigs a tender one, and will plant it upon an high mountain and eminent: In the mountain of the height of Israel will I plant it: and it shall bring forth boughs, and bear fruit, and be a goodly cedar: and under it shall dwell all fowl of every wing; in the shadow of the branches thereof shall they dwell. And all the trees of the field shall know that I the LORD have brought down the high tree, have exalted the low tree, have dried up the green tree, and have made the dry tree to flourish: I the LORD have spoken and have done it.​

Our Father explains the riddle Himself. The cedar is not Christ.

Your interpretation of what is written is not what is written.
Since the Word of God applies to all generations past present and future, Who is the king of Babylon and who is the king of Jerusalem and who are the princes of Jerusalem who have been taken by the king of Babylon to Babylon? Do you think its talking about literal kings or spiritual kings?
Is Christ the Lord and King of ALL or not?

Elijah is all the prophets...including those of today. The difference is today's prophets don't foretell new things. They prophesy what the Spirit reveals...deeper revelations of His Word.

I don't believe the dreadful day has yet begun. It is heralded by the seventh and last trumpet.

Jesus said Elijah was all the prophets and law UNTIL JOHN.

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

The Spirit of Elijah is the Spirit which warns people to prepare for the kingdom of God and the wrath to come. It tells people to prepare themselves for the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.. It preaches repentance from sin and baptism in water.
SINCE JOHN, the Kingdom of God is preached by Jesus as being at hand and within them and to walk and LIVE IN IT daily by following Jesus example.
The Spirit of Elijah was only till John according to Jesus Himself.

The Spirit that came after Elijah is the Spirit of Elisha who received a double portion of the Spirit of Elijah. (2Kings 2:9 )

The dreadful day of the Lord began on the day Jesus died on the cross. That was and is and always will be the beginning of the judgment of the world.

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
( please see the post about eternal judgment )

The Judgment of God is eternally NOW in the past present and future.

The seventh trumpet is the trumpet which came from the mouth and voice of Jesus Christ Himself.

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 16: 17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

 

[JarBreaker]

They prophesy what the Spirit reveals...deeper revelations of His word

People saying the office of prophecy is no longer in effect forget that His word is alive ... if He sent a word 4,000 years ago then part of it may have "came to life" or been revealed 3,000 years ago, another part 2,000 years ago on and on etc, etc .... then as Daniel said knowledge must increase ... Elijah will restore all things and the final layers of prophecy will be revealed or come to life in these last days. We see through a glass now darkly.

 

[whirlwind]

Your interpretation of what is written is not what is written.
Since the Word of God applies to all generations past present and future, Who is the king of Babylon and who is the king of Jerusalem and who are the princes of Jerusalem who have been taken by the king of Babylon to Babylon? Do you think its talking about literal kings or spiritual kings?
Is Christ the Lord and King of ALL or not?

Is Christ the Lord and King of all? Yes!


Was He the same king that....

Ezekiel 17:15-24 But he rebelled against him in sending his ambassadors into Egypt, that they might give him horses and much people. Shall he prosper? shall he escape that doeth such things? or shall he break the covenant, and be delivered? As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely in the place where the king dwelleth that made him king, whose oath he despised, and whose covenant he brake, even with him in the midst of Babylon he shall die. Neither shall Pharaoh with his mighty army and great company make for him in the war, by casting up mounts, and building forts, to cut off many persons: Seeing he despised the oath by breaking the covenant, when, lo, he had given his hand, and hath done all these things, he shall not escape. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; As I live, surely Mine oath that he hath despised, and My covenant that he hath broken, even it will I recompense upon his own head. And I will spread My net upon him, and he shall be taken in My snare, and I will bring him to Babylon, and will plead with him there for his trespass that he hath trespassed against Me.​

Is that our Lord and King or is that one of the earthly kings? :huh: That king is the high cedar the twigs were taken from....not Jesus Christ.


I very much agree with your saying the Word is for all generations. We are given many types and examples so where it is written.....

Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Say now to the rebellious house, Know ye not what these things mean? tell them, Behold, the king of Babylon is come to Jerusalem, and hath taken the king thereof, and the princes thereof, and led them with him to Babylon; And hath taken of the king's seed, and made a covenant with him, and hath taken an oath of him: he hath also taken the mighty of the land:​

.......is about the future as well as history. The king of Babylon represents Satan taking God's children captive.

Jesus said Elijah was all the prophets and law UNTIL JOHN.

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

The Spirit of Elijah is the Spirit which warns people to prepare for the kingdom of God and the wrath to come. It tells people to prepare themselves for the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.. It preaches repentance from sin and baptism in water.
SINCE JOHN, the Kingdom of God is preached by Jesus as being at hand and within them and to walk and LIVE IN IT daily by following Jesus example.
The Spirit of Elijah was only till John according to Jesus Himself.

The Spirit that came after Elijah is the Spirit of Elisha who received a double portion of the Spirit of Elijah. (2Kings 2:9 )

From post #10 of this thread....

Elijah (My God is Yahveh) is doing the work today in and through us, the group in the last days...His "great cloud of witnesses." He is the law and the prophets....

Matthew 11:13-14 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.​

If you will receive it He tells us who that Elias is...all the law and the prophets. That is the Elias that "was for to come." But, there are two Elias's mentioned....

Matthew 17:9-13 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. And His disciples asked Him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.​

"Elias shall come" and Elias "is come already" said in the same sentence. And...all of that was said AFTER the time of the literal Elijah. How can that be?

The Elias the scribes wrote of, "That Elias is come already." But still to come is the Elias that "shall first come and restore all things." He, the law and prophets (if you will receive it), comes in His elect, in His firstfruits. They testify of the law and prophets.​

This Elias, the one that restores all things....is the Elias in the elect. This is the Elijah written of in Malachi.....

Malachi 4:4-6 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.​

The dreadful day of the Lord began on the day Jesus died on the cross. That was and is and always will be the beginning of the judgment of the world.

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
( please see the post about eternal judgment )

The Judgment of God is eternally NOW in the past present and future.

The seventh trumpet is the trumpet which came from the mouth and voice of Jesus Christ Himself.

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 16: 17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

You'll be surprised to find....we don't agree.


We have not yet heard the seventh trumpet. It is future. Elijah is sent before the great and dreadful day....we now prophesy warning of this coming day. When Christ said, "it is finished," it was. His reason for coming in the flesh was accomplished.

 

[skyangel]

Is Christ the Lord and King of all? Yes!


Was He the same king that....

Ezekiel 17:15-24 But he rebelled against him in sending his ambassadors into Egypt, that they might give him horses and much people. Shall he prosper? shall he escape that doeth such things? or shall he break the covenant, and be delivered? As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely in the place where the king dwelleth that made him king, whose oath he despised, and whose covenant he brake, even with him in the midst of Babylon he shall die. Neither shall Pharaoh with his mighty army and great company make for him in the war, by casting up mounts, and building forts, to cut off many persons: Seeing he despised the oath by breaking the covenant, when, lo, he had given his hand, and hath done all these things, he shall not escape. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; As I live, surely Mine oath that he hath despised, and My covenant that he hath broken, even it will I recompense upon his own head. And I will spread My net upon him, and he shall be taken in My snare, and I will bring him to Babylon, and will plead with him there for his trespass that he hath trespassed against Me.​

Is that our Lord and King or is that one of the earthly kings? :huh: That king is the high cedar the twigs were taken from....not Jesus Christ.


I very much agree with your saying the Word is for all generations. We are given many types and examples so where it is written.....

Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Say now to the rebellious house, Know ye not what these things mean? tell them, Behold, the king of Babylon is come to Jerusalem, and hath taken the king thereof, and the princes thereof, and led them with him to Babylon; And hath taken of the king's seed, and made a covenant with him, and hath taken an oath of him: he hath also taken the mighty of the land:​

.......is about the future as well as history. The king of Babylon represents Satan taking God's children captive.

The Spirit of the Lord took Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted and tested by the devil. The same Spirit of the Lord takes all his children into the wilderness and into a place of bondage in the spiritual sense to be tempted and tested by the devil. This means the devil is the Lord servant who is doing the testings and temptation according to the will of God. The devil cannot do one thing without the permission of the Father in the first place. Look at Job as an example where Satan had to have permission to do what he did to Job.
Satan takes the children of God captive today as well. He takes them into the religions of the world which are represented by Babylon and binds them into his false doctrines and false teachings and gets them to follow the false Christ as they continue to sin instead of ceasing from sin.
Babylon is your carnal mind. As long as you keep thinking with the carnal mind you will remain in bondage to that carnal mind. The king of that carnal mind is who ?
Jerusalem is the city of peace. This city of peace is also within your mind but it is the Mind of Christ as opposed to the carnal mind. The king of the Mind of Christ is who?
The king of Babylon ( the father of the carnal mind ) comes to Jerusalem ( The Father of the Mind of Christ ) and takes the mind of Christ and its fruits and all that is subject to it and leads them into the carnal mind (Babylon) and takes the kings seed ( the seed of the Mind of Christ ) which is the word of God and makes a covenant with Him. The king of Babylon made a covenant with the king of Jerusalem. What is that covenant? You will find it in ......
Exek 17: 14 That the kingdom might be base, that it might not lift itself up, [but] that by keeping of his covenant it might stand.

This is like satan taking Jesus and showing him all the kingdoms of the world and telling him if he, Jesus ( the mind of Christ ) bows down and worships him, satan ( the carnal mind ) and remains in subjection to him or allows the "kingdom of Christ to remain base" that satan ( the carnal mind ) will give Jesus ( the mind of Christ) all the kingdoms of the world ( the carnal mind )

15 But he rebelled against him in sending his ambassadors into Egypt, that they might give him horses and much people. Shall he prosper? shall he escape that doeth such [things]? or shall he break the covenant, and be delivered?

He ( Jesus ) rebelled against him ( the devil ) Did he keep the covenant or break it ?

The King of Babylon is ultimately God the Father and the king of Jerusalem is also ultimately God the Father. Satan is a servant of God, just like Jesus is a servant of God. How many covenants does God have with people? Is the covenant between God and His servants ever broken? If so, which covenant is broken and when is it broken?

The word of God is always about spiritual things in the past present and future. The temporary earthy things which represent the spiritual are merely a shadow of things to come. They are like a living parable of what is constantly happening in the Spiritual realm.

 

[skyangel]

From post #10 of this thread....

Elijah (My God is Yahveh) is doing the work today in and through us, the group in the last days...His "great cloud of witnesses." He is the law and the prophets....

Matthew 11:13-14 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.​

If you will receive it He tells us who that Elias is...all the law and the prophets. That is the Elias that "was for to come." But, there are two Elias's mentioned....

Matthew 17:9-13 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. And His disciples asked Him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.​

"Elias shall come" and Elias "is come already" said in the same sentence. And...all of that was said AFTER the time of the literal Elijah. How can that be?

The Elias the scribes wrote of, "That Elias is come already." But still to come is the Elias that "shall first come and restore all things." He, the law and prophets (if you will receive it), comes in His elect, in His firstfruits. They testify of the law and prophets.​

This Elias, the one that restores all things....is the Elias in the elect. This is the Elijah written of in Malachi.....

Malachi 4:4-6 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.​

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

When the bible speaks of the Alpha and Omega, the Almighty, who WAS and IS and IS TO COME, is it speaking about three different Christs or three different Gods? If not, why would it be speaking about different Elijahs? The Spirit of Elijah is also the Spirit of God who was and is and is to come.

God is always there before judgment, during judgment and after judgment. He is always the same. His Spirit is the SAME Spirit of Christ which was before Christ was born and after Christ died.
Jesus existed before He was born and so did Elijah and they still exist after the body in which they once dwelled disappears. The Spirit returns in another body.

Elijah/ Elias = "my God is Jehovah" or "Yah(u) is God"
Elisha = "God is salvation"

Which Spirit was and is and always will be in Jesus?
Which Spirit is in you ?

The law and the prophets lead us to God who is salvation.

The law and the prophets were UNTIL John.

Are you still living in the time of the law and the prophets or are you living in the time where the law and the prophets have ALL been fulfilled IN, through and by Jesus Christ who told us to follow His example and do the same as He does?

Are you living in a mere " down payment" of the Spirit to come or are you living and abiding in a double portion of the Spirit of God? Have you been redeemed by the blood of Jesus or are you not yet redeemed?

2 Kings 2:9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.

John 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

John 5: 36 But I have greater witness than [that] of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

Greater (meizōn) = larger, elder, stronger, more

You'll be surprised to find....we don't agree.


We have not yet heard the seventh trumpet. It is future. Elijah is sent before the great and dreadful day....we now prophesy warning of this coming day. When Christ said, "it is finished," it was. His reason for coming in the flesh was accomplished.

It does not surprise me at all that the carnal mind never agrees with the Mind of Christ.
The trumpets of God all were and are and are to come for all eternity.
The seven spirits of God are all past present and future. at the same time.
The Alpha and Omega is the first and the last for all eternity. He WAS and IS and IS TO COME for ever.

Jesus IS the seventh trump of God. Those who have ears to hear will hear what the seven angels said in the past, are saying today in this present time and will always say for all eternity. They all say the same thing for all eternity. The word of God does not change.

I am in Him and He is in me.

I hear the seventh trumpet daily. When the Lord gives you ears to hear, you will hear Him too.

The promises of God are all past present and future at the same time.

If any man have ears to hear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches, Yesterday Today and For ever.

 

[fivesense]

Whirlwind, I think you've met your match in Skyangel. But I know you are up to the task. Skyangel, you'ld best keep your knives sharpened. Whirlwind draws from a deep, deep well.

fivesense

 

[skyangel]

Whirlwind, I think you've met your match in Skyangel. But I know you are up to the task. Skyangel, you'ld best keep your knives sharpened. Whirlwind draws from a deep, deep well.

fivesense

His well looks very shallow and superficial to me.
The Lord's well is far deeper and His word is sharper than a two edged sword.

 

[fivesense]

His well looks very shallow and superficial to me.
The Lord's well is far deeper and His word is sharper than a two edged sword.

Bravo!
fivesense

 

[whirlwind]

The Spirit of the Lord took Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted and tested by the devil. The same Spirit of the Lord takes all his children into the wilderness and into a place of bondage in the spiritual sense to be tempted and tested by the devil. This means the devil is the Lord servant who is doing the testings and temptation according to the will of God. The devil cannot do one thing without the permission of the Father in the first place. Look at Job as an example where Satan had to have permission to do what he did to Job.

Satan takes the children of God captive today as well. He takes them into the religions of the world which are represented by Babylon and binds them into his false doctrines and false teachings and gets them to follow the false Christ as they continue to sin instead of ceasing from sin.
Babylon is your carnal mind. As long as you keep thinking with the carnal mind you will remain in bondage to that carnal mind. The king of that carnal mind is who ?
Jerusalem is the city of peace. This city of peace is also within your mind but it is the Mind of Christ as opposed to the carnal mind. The king of the Mind of Christ is who?
The king of Babylon ( the father of the carnal mind ) comes to Jerusalem ( The Father of the Mind of Christ ) and takes the mind of Christ and its fruits and all that is subject to it and leads them into the carnal mind (Babylon) and takes the kings seed ( the seed of the Mind of Christ ) which is the word of God and makes a covenant with Him. The king of Babylon made a covenant with the king of Jerusalem. What is that covenant? You will find it in ......
Exek 17: 14 That the kingdom might be base, that it might not lift itself up, [but] that by keeping of his covenant it might stand.

This is like satan taking Jesus and showing him all the kingdoms of the world and telling him if he, Jesus ( the mind of Christ ) bows down and worships him, satan ( the carnal mind ) and remains in subjection to him or allows the "kingdom of Christ to remain base" that satan ( the carnal mind ) will give Jesus ( the mind of Christ) all the kingdoms of the world ( the carnal mind )

15 But he rebelled against him in sending his ambassadors into Egypt, that they might give him horses and much people. Shall he prosper? shall he escape that doeth such [things]? or shall he break the covenant, and be delivered?

He ( Jesus ) rebelled against him ( the devil ) Did he keep the covenant or break it ?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Jesus rebelled against the devil? Don't you have that a tad backward?

The King of Babylon is ultimately God the Father and the king of Jerusalem is also ultimately God the Father. Satan is a servant of God, just like Jesus is a servant of God. How many covenants does God have with people? Is the covenant between God and His servants ever broken? If so, which covenant is broken and when is it broken?

:blink:

The king of Babylon IS NOT, nor ever hast been, nor ever shall be God The Father! Jesus is God, He is NOT the servant of God.

The word of God is always about spiritual things in the past present and future. The temporary earthy things which represent the spiritual are merely a shadow of things to come. They are like a living parable of what is constantly happening in the Spiritual realm.

I quite understand that...but thank you for pointing it out.

 

[JarBreaker]

[quote name='skyangel' date='23 July 2010 - 07:00 PM' timestamp='1279929649' post=']
Are you living in a mere " down payment" of the Spirit to come or are you living and abiding in a double portion of the Spirit of God? Have you been redeemed by the blood of Jesus or are you not yet
[/quote]


That passage saying we have "received an EARNEST of the spirit ... " ?

Yeah, pretty much means down payment.

We are NOT redeemed, we are living in obedience and expectation of His redemption .... persevering til the end.


Not putting words in your mouth here, (admittedly not reading everything) but to think otherwise is edging close to once saved always saved.



Look up what teshuvah and geulah mean to the Jews.



You cant return just a little bit ...


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Whirlwind, I think you've met your match in Skyangel. But I know you are up to the task. Skyangel, you'ld best keep your knives sharpened. Whirlwind draws from a deep, deep well.

fivesense


His well looks very shallow and superficial to me.
The Lord's well is far deeper and His word is sharper than a two edged sword.


Bravo!
fivesense
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So what ... bust one clique and we have 2 months then another one forms ?

I want my - button back.


edit: yeah my posts are ugly