Elijah shall come before Christ?

[Fred J]

Matthew 17:
10. And His disciples asked Him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elijah must first come?
11. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elijah truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12. But I say unto you, That Elijah has come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13. Then the disciples understood that He spoke unto them of John the Baptist.

Friends, what am i missing here, isn't it written Elijah shall come first and not John the Baptist?

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[David Lamb]

Matthew 17:
10. And His disciples asked Him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elijah must first come?
11. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elijah truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12. But I say unto you, That Elijah has come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13. Then the disciples understood that He spoke unto them of John the Baptist.

Friends, what am i missing here, isn't it written Elijah shall come first and not John the Baptist?

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

It's clearer perhaps in an earlier chapter of Matthew:

“7 ¶ As they departed, Jesus began to say to the multitudes concerning John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8 “But what did you go out to see? A man clothed in soft garments? Indeed, those who wear soft [clothing] are in kings’ houses. 9 “But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. 10 “For this is [he] of whom it is written: ‘Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, Who will prepare Your way before You.’ 11 “Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 “And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 “For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 “And if you are willing to receive [it], he is Elijah who is to come.” (Mt 11:7-14 NKJV)

 

[LoveYeshua]

Matthew 17:
10. And His disciples asked Him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elijah must first come?
11. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elijah truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12. But I say unto you, That Elijah has come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13. Then the disciples understood that He spoke unto them of John the Baptist.

Friends, what am i missing here, isn't it written Elijah shall come first and not John the Baptist?

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

When Jesus came down from the mountain after His transfiguration, the disciples asked Him why the scribes always said that Elijah must come before the Messiah. This teaching came from the prophecy in Malachi where God promised that Elijah would come before the great and dreadful day of the Lord to turn the hearts of the people back to Him (Malachi 4:5–6). The disciples were troubled because they had just seen Elijah with Jesus on the mountain, and they wanted to know how this prophecy truly fit. Jesus explained that Elijah does come to restore all things, but then He told them that Elijah had already come, yet the people did not recognize him. Instead, they rejected him and treated him harshly. Jesus was speaking of John the Baptist, who came in the spirit and power of Elijah to prepare the way for the Lord by calling the people to repentance.

When the Bible says that John came in the spirit and power of Elijah, it does not mean that John was Elijah reborn or that Elijah’s soul entered into him. It means that John was given the same kind of mission and boldness as Elijah. Elijah in the Old Testament had stood fearlessly before King Ahab and Queen Jezebel, calling Israel away from idolatry and back to the living God (1 Kings 18). In the same way, John preached in the wilderness, crying out, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!” (Matthew 3:2). He lived simply, apart from society, and he even confronted King Herod for his sins, which led to his death (Mark 6:17–29). His whole purpose was to prepare the hearts of the people so they would be ready to receive the Messiah.

This was confirmed when the angel announced John’s birth to his father Zechariah, saying that John would go before the Lord “in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord” (Luke 1:17). This echoed the prophecy of Malachi, showing that John was the promised “Elijah” figure.

But instead of welcoming him, many rejected John’s message, and Herod had him killed. In the same way, Jesus said, the Son of Man would also suffer and be rejected at the hands of men. Then the disciples understood clearly that the prophecy about Elijah was not about Elijah himself returning from heaven, but about John the Baptist fulfilling that role as the one who prepared the way for the Messiah. This showed them that God’s promises were being fulfilled in ways greater and deeper than the scribes had taught, and that the rejection of God’s messengers was happening again, first with John and then with Jesus Himself.

 

[Muna]

It's clearer perhaps in an earlier chapter of Matthew:

“7 ¶ As they departed, Jesus began to say to the multitudes concerning John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8 “But what did you go out to see? A man clothed in soft garments? Indeed, those who wear soft [clothing] are in kings’ houses. 9 “But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. 10 “For this is [he] of whom it is written: ‘Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, Who will prepare Your way before You.’ 11 “Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 “And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 “For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 “And if you are willing to receive [it], he is Elijah who is to come.” (Mt 11:7-14 NKJV)

Yes, and you can see a picture of the two (John and Jesus) even in Elijah and Elisha also. Even as Elijah goes before Elisha and find many comparisons between them there.

 

[WitnessX]

Elijah will come again, John was a partial fulfillment that was cutoff (literally lost his head), just as Messiah was.

Malachi 4:5-6 wasn’t completely fulfilled because John did not in fact turn fathers to sons and sons to fathers, nor did it precede the great and dreadful Day of the Lord.

Malachi 4:5 (KJV) Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Malachi 4:6 (KJV) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

The Day of the Lord is the second coming and Elijah will herald His coming, either in spirit and typology as John did or personally.

how exactly is goes down….hindsight will be 20/20.

 

[Muna]

Elijah will come again, John was a partial fulfillment that was cutoff (literally lost his head), just as Messiah was.

Malachi 4:5-6 wasn’t completely fulfilled because John did not in fact turn fathers to sons and sons to fathers, nor did it precede the great and dreadful Day of the Lord.

Malachi 4:5 (KJV) Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Malachi 4:6 (KJV) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

The Day of the Lord is the second coming and Elijah will herald His coming, either in spirit and typology as John did or personally.

how exactly is goes down….hindsight will be 20/20.

What are your thoughts according to the scriptue on the second half of that verse highlight in red (after the reference to John) "lest I come and smite the earth with a curse"

 

[ScottA]

Matthew 17:
10. And His disciples asked Him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elijah must first come?
11. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elijah truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12. But I say unto you, That Elijah has come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13. Then the disciples understood that He spoke unto them of John the Baptist.

Friends, what am i missing here, isn't it written Elijah shall come first and not John the Baptist?

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

Elijah spiritually is "ascension without dying."

What Jesus was eluding to, is that before Pentecost--before the Spirit of life everlasting would come--Christ would first die, rise from the dead, and ascend.

John proclaimed it--as a prophet.

 

[Zao is life]

Matthew 17:
10. And His disciples asked Him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elijah must first come?
11. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elijah truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12. But I say unto you, That Elijah has come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13. Then the disciples understood that He spoke unto them of John the Baptist.

Friends, what am i missing here, isn't it written Elijah shall come first and not John the Baptist?

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

It's a mystery because Jesus juxtaposed a future-tense fulfillment with a past-tense fulfillment ("Elijah truly shall come and shall restore all things" is not "Elijah has already come")

- and when the Pharisees asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah he said "I am not."

21 And they asked him, What then? Are you Elijah? And he says, I am not. Are you that prophet? And he answered, No.
22 Then they said to him, Who are you so that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say of yourself?
23 He said, I am "the voice of one crying in the wilderness: Make straight the way of the Lord," as the prophet Isaiah said.
24 And they who were sent were from the Pharisees.
25 And they asked him and said, Why then do you baptize, if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor that Prophet? -- John 1.

On the Mount of configuration they did not see Moses and John the Baptist talking with Jesus, hence their confusion and their question as they were coming down from the mountain - and they all knew who John the Baptist was.

But few question why Jesus did not simply say, "Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but have done to him whatever they desired. Likewise also the Son of man shall suffer from them."

But Jesus didn't simply say that. He said, "Elijah truly shall come and shall restore all things, and then He said that Elijah has come already.

Both Jesus and the apostles spoke of the Kingdom of Christ that shall come.
Both Jesus and the apostles spoke of the Kingdom of Christ that has already come.

If John the Baptist is the one and only fulfillment of the prophecy then there is also no Kingdom of Christ that shall come, because the prophecy in Malachi is linked to the coming of the Kingdom of God and the Day of the LORD.

Most of the replies here reflect the fact that the church traditionally - and most Christians across all generations since Jesus - come to hasty conclusions about a lot of stuff, though at least one person here mentioned the fact that it was not before* the coming of the Day of the LORD that John the Baptist came.

* paniym

* The wording of Malachi 4:1-2 and 5-6 is similar to that of John the Baptist in Matthew 3:10-12 - and it's because of Jesus' sacrifice for our sins that the earth was not smitten with a curse

- but that does not answer our questions, and IMO it's just Christianeze over-hasty interpretation which typically lacks thoughtful consideration that ignores the questions, claiming that "Jesus said" (Jesus said "it's John the Baptist") when

(a) That is not all that Jesus said about the prophecy and its fulfillment; and
(b) Nor is it what John the Baptist himself said when they asked him if he was Elijah; and
(c) Nor was it Moses and John the Baptist who appeared with Jesus on the Mount of transfiguration; and
(d) Nor was it the Day of the LORD in the sense of God's Day of judgment.

So to me it's a mystery and I therefore leave open the possibility that it may yet be fulfilled again - but by Elijah and not by someone coming in the spirit and power of Elijah

- except that like the religious leaders and many of the Jews of Jesus's day, many Christians and their religious leaders will reject him if it's Elijah who indeed shall come and shall restore the hearts of many (not just many Jews) to the true faith of the fathers (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) *

* As a Gentile who does not believe in two Israels I still can't help noticing how many Gentile Christians and their attitudes (and especially their prideful attitudes with regards the failings of the Jews of Jesus' day) is actually very reminiscent of those very same failings.​

 

[WitnessX]

What are your thoughts according to the scriptue on the second half of that verse highlight in red (after the reference to John) "lest I come and smite the earth with a curse"

They were in fact cursed with the diaspora to last another almost 2000 years. So God did come and smite the earth with a curse.

 

[Muna]

They were in fact cursed with the diaspora to last another almost 2000 years. So God did come and smite the earth with a curse.

They were cursed and so God did not smite the earth with a curse you are saying?

 

[Jack]

"Elijah shall come before Christ?"

He'd better hurry! This is the terminal generation!

 

[Fred J]

It's clearer perhaps in an earlier chapter of Matthew:

“7 ¶ As they departed, Jesus began to say to the multitudes concerning John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8 “But what did you go out to see? A man clothed in soft garments? Indeed, those who wear soft [clothing] are in kings’ houses. 9 “But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. 10 “For this is [he] of whom it is written: ‘Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, Who will prepare Your way before You.’ 11 “Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 “And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 “For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 “And if you are willing to receive [it], he is Elijah who is to come.” (Mt 11:7-14 NKJV)

Fabulous!

But am not getting it, i know Elijah from the Old Testament and i know John the Baptist from the New Testament.

Apparently they are not the same person, please explain furthermore, thank you

 

[Fred J]

- and when the Pharisees asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah he said "I am not."

21 And they asked him, What then? Are you Elijah? And he says, I am not. Are you that prophet? And he answered, No.​

Friends, John the Baptist himself confessed that he is not Elijah, what am i missing here?

 

[Brakelite]

Elijah and John had something in common in their ministry. They both rebuked religio/state kings who had apostatized, and were committing adultery, either spiritual or marital. And it isn't coincidental that Ahab's wife's name was Jezebel, responsible for introducing idolatry into Israel. In the last days, the spirit of Jezebel of influential in the church described symbolically as Thyatira, one of the end time churches in Revelation. The Spirit and power of Elijah in the lives of the final remnant people of God through the latter rain, will also confront the kings of the earth, rebuking and exposing their sin as they join with Babylon the Great in a spiritually illicit union...a union of an apostate church and the state.

 

[Fred J]

“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 “For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 “And if you are willing to receive [it], he is Elijah who is to come.” (Mt 11:7-14 NKJV)

Friends as David Lamb quoted, Jesus himself said John the Baptist is Elijah, and the prophecy is 'fulfilled'.

But why John the Baptist himself said he's not Elijah?

 

[David Lamb]

Fabulous!

But am not getting it, i know Elijah from the Old Testament and i know John the Baptist from the New Testament.

Apparently they are not the same person, please explain furthermore, thank you

Possible the fulfillment of Malachi's prophecy:

“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.” (Mal 4:5 NKJV)

There were many similarities between Elijah and John. I don't believe that Jesus meant that John was a re-incarnation of Elijah.

 

[WitnessX]

They were cursed and so God did not smite the earth with a curse you are saying?

Jeremiah 44:8 (AMP)
“Why do you [deliberately] provoke Me to anger with the works (idols) of your hands, burning sacrifices and incense to [make-believe] gods in the land of Egypt, where you [of your own accord] have come to live [as temporary residents], that you might be cut off and become a curse and a disgrace [an object of taunts] among all the nations of the earth?

This is Him smiting the earth with a curse. The continued daispora.

I said exactly what I said, not what you said.

 

[WitnessX]

Friends as David Lamb quoted, Jesus himself said John the Baptist is Elijah, and the prophecy is 'fulfilled'.

But why John the Baptist himself said he's not Elijah?

Not fulfilled, a partial fulfillment, just as Jesus partially fulfilled Daniel 9:24.

John did not turn the father’s hearts to the sons or the sons to the fathers.

Elijah, in person or spirit, will herald the second coming.

 

[marks]

What are your thoughts according to the scriptue on the second half of that verse highlight in red (after the reference to John) "lest I come and smite the earth with a curse"

Chiming in here . . . "so I don't smite the earth with a curse" is the way I understand this.

Malachi 4:5-6 LITV
5) Behold, I am sending you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of Jehovah.
6) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the sons, and the heart of the sons to their fathers, that I not come and strike the earth with utter destruction.

My thinking is that Elijah - either the man, or someone with his "spirit and power" as was John the baptist - will be with those Israelites who fled to the wilderness, preparing a people for their Groom.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Matthew 17:
10. And His disciples asked Him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elijah must first come?
11. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elijah truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12. But I say unto you, That Elijah has come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13. Then the disciples understood that He spoke unto them of John the Baptist.

Friends, what am i missing here, isn't it written Elijah shall come first and not John the Baptist?

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

Had the Jews received John the Baptist, they would have received Jesus Christ, and the prophecy of Elijah would have been fulfilled through John the Baptist "in the spirit and power of Elijah". Jesus was particularly troubled when the news came of John's death, as this was a harbinger of Jesus' impending death.

Because Jesus spoke this way, we can understand that this is how God sees it, that John being in Elijah's "spirit and power" (whatever that means exactly?) fulfills, or would have, the prophecy.

Jesus affirmed that Elijah truly shall first come, and restore all things, telling us that this will still happen. Elijah - or perhaps one in his "spirit and power" will come, and will suceed in his ministry of restoration. I think this refers to the Israelites having fled Judea into the wilderness, that he will be with them, instructing them, preparing them, and they will say, "blessed is He Who comes in the Name of the LORD", showing their readiness to receive Jesus, and Jesus will return.

Much love!