Entire Sanctification = "In Christ"

[Johann]

Schism is not the problem--Paul said there *must be* divisions. The real problem is in attitude. Are we "peaceable?" Are we loving, forgiving, gracious, kind, forbearing, etc.? Our goal should be to demonstrate the love of God always, whether with brother, friend, or enemy.

Please give this a listen

http://www.freebiblecommentary.org/mp3/32-16/romans/rom32k-10.mp3

Thank you brother.

 

[Lizbeth]

Yes, its in the bible.
But that does not always and without exception make it doctrine for the born again Christian.

Now, Listen carefully and you can end something that is hindering your REAL walk of Faith.

1.) Realize....

= The Born again dont have any sin, as you can't have any and be "in Christ". (all the born again). You can't have any sin and be "One with God"..
You can't have any sin and be "seated in Heavenly Places".. = Born Again.
The reason the Born again dont have any sin, is because "God hath made Jesus to be SIN for US"... and God has given to us "the GIFT of Righteousness".
Thats what the born again HAVE.
This is why the Born again are "SAINTS" and not sinners.
Heirs of God
Joint Heirs with Jesus.
Have Eternal life


2.) Why was "Jesus made sin for us". 2000 yrs ago...On The Cross?

= """that we might be MADE = the righteousness of God in Christ"... Today, Yesterday, and Forever.

Notice...>"The righteousness of GOD"...... is Where?

Where is it??

= Its "IN CHRIST".... is the "Righteousness of God" ......and who is "IN CHRIST" where the "righteousness of God"" is found? ??

A.) ALL the Born again.......are "in Christ" having been "made righteous"... as "the Righteousness of God" "in Christ".


Saint, if you are born again you are BIRTHED Spiritually into the Spirit of God, BY THE Holy Spirit.
There is no sin found there and you are IN THERE. = "in Christ"... "one with God".

A.) Welcome to : Born Again.

and "Jesus said, you must be born again"........ or you still have your sin, and you are not going to heaven, as there is no sin found there.
So the next question is... Then why do you confess sin if you are Born Again "in Christ"?

A.) Exactly.......and i can feel the fangs and the sharp blades already.....but just keep reading, and dont attack yet.

3.) Why do you, confess sin.... if Jesus has died for it all 2000 yrs ago, and Romans 4:8 says God does not charge you with any, and 2 Corinthians 5:19 says the same?
Its because you dont understand the Cross or God's Grace or Salvation, or you use to understand it and a DECEIVER caused you to "fall from Grace".
its usually a "church", or a "denomination" or a "commentary set"..... you've been using for a long time. But plenty of Forums have these people on them who will talk you right out of truth and right into SELF SAVING...= Trying to Stay Saved, and they will teach you that "Christianity is all about sinning, confessing, repeat".
Its not.

You also "confess" because that helps you out of your guilt trip.......most of all. Its your ritual. You do something that offends your conscience, then you feel horrible that you did it for the 35th time, and you cry, probably, and you confess to God, again, and by the next day, you feel better, and by day 3, you are good to go, and by day 7, you did it again, and back to the confession guilt trip remedy you go.
Thing is..
"Jesus is the one time eternal sacrifice for ALL sin"....

Here is what is literally happening. You are confessing, while God is wondering why you dont learn some BIBLE and get your FAITH RIGHT .
The Clock is ticking.....

4.) Now, ive no doubt that some people will come to this THREAD.... and demand that you are to confess, as they do, habitually.
Just tell them that you'd rather Praise Beautiful Jesus instead for taking your sin and dying for them all so that you can be redeemed, forgiven, and have become ""IN CHRIST"..where no sin is ever found.

Spend your time thanking God for Salvation instead of wasting time confessing what Christ has already died AS.. = "as God has made Jesus to be sin for us".

Are you born again, ????? then there go your sin., as "God has made Jesus to be sin for us". = That is the CROSS OF CHRIST.
If you're not born again, then confess and repent 1 John 1:9. and Christ will die for yours also....and then you will become 1 John 3:9

And one more.
John the Apostle does not have any sin. Nor does Paul and that is why Paul never says a word, a verse, or even hints that he confesses "sin", as a born again believer. Not ONCE, in any Epistle, and he wrote most of the NT Epistles, Saint.
How do you know Paul doesn't "confess" sin? "Because God made Jesus to be sin for US"... and Paul should know, as PAUL WROTE THE VERSE......
So Learn that these PREACHERS sometimes preached to the lost, and they would say.."WE", when they literally meant, "them".

Paul does this also in Hebrews 10 as in those verses Paul also says to some unsaved HEBREWS.. "we", but He's not the one who is "willfully sinning". and "trodding underfoot the Blood of Christ". = THEY ARE... they are the "WE"....>not Paul who is PREACHING the Blood of Jesus as the Cross of Yeshua Their MESSIAH..... to these hateful Christ rejecting HEBREWS (unsaved jews).

So, you have to learn something about "rightly dividing the word" or you will literally damn yourself with verses that are not pointed at "the body of Christ"...
Very important that you understand that Theological reality.

Jas 5:16

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.


1Jo 1:6-9

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Jer 3:12-13
Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.
Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.


Rom 3:25

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are PAST, through the forbearance of God


1Co 11:27-29

Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.


Jhn 13:6-10

Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?
Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

 

[Johann]

Jas 5:16

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.


1Jo 1:6-9

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Jer 3:12-13
Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.
Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.


Rom 3:25

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are PAST, through the forbearance of God


1Co 11:27-29

Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.


Jhn 13:6-10

Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?
Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

Well, well, where have you been?
Missed you.
Johann.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Please give this a listen.

Seems like a good teacher--I didn't listen to the whole thing because I want to respond to all the pertinent posts on the forum, and it's long. I'm not sure what point you wanted me to hear?

 

[Johann]

Jas 5:16

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.


1Jo 1:6-9

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Jer 3:12-13
Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.
Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.


Rom 3:25

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are PAST, through the forbearance of God


1Co 11:27-29

Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.


Jhn 13:6-10

Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?
Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

Well, well, where have you been?
Missed you.
Johann.

Seems like a good teacher--I didn't listen to the whole thing because I want to respond to all the pertinent posts on the forum, and it's long. I'm not sure what point you wanted me to hear?

No, not really, I was going to post a sermon on the law from Dr. Utley, but as you say, you want to respond to all pertinent posts.
Shalom
Johann.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Hello Randy.....that is what you believe.....I don’t believe that, not for me anyway, I was birthed in the Spirit ,that was “ relayed” to my mind....spiritual birth...ok, I can’t explain it....all I can say is,God testified with my spirit that I am his child....he spoke to my spirit ,then relayed to my mind....

Trouble is that you're disagreeing with me, and then end up agreeing with me! You disagree with my point that divine revelation comes to and through the mind, and then you admit that when God speaks to your spirit it is "relayed to your mind." It seems that the only point you're making here is that revelation begins with God connecting with our spirit. And as I've already said, this can happen and still reveal truth to the mind simultaneously.

When Jesus said to his Disciples, "Follow me," they heard him with their ears and perceived what he was asking with their minds. Then they responded by obeying his voice.

Saul, before he was called "Paul," ignored the pricks of his conscience when he lived apart from the revelation of Christ. God was speaking to his mind, but he wasn't listening.

Then one day, Jesus spoke to his mind, and he accepted the reality of what was being said, that he had been ignoring God's voice to him. All this took place as God spoke to Paul's mind. But the revelation did not "take" until Paul accepted the truth of the voice and obeyed it.

My own big change in life came when I realized that my promises to change what I was doing wrong wasn't happening. Having been raised in the church I wasn't used to getting addicted to doing bad things. I heard God tell me that I have to get back on the wagon, and yield everything to Him.

Later, when I read the book of Acts, I saw where it was said that God gives His Spirit to those who *obey Him.* Having come to fully obey Him, giving my whole life to Him, I instantly felt overwhelmed in the Spirit. Now I know the way costs us everything. We must yield to His Spirit *in everything,* rejecting human pride for the love of God.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Hello again,Randy, I appreciate that you have invested many years in trying to understand scripture,...imo,it doesn’t work like that...for me, it’s the Holy Spirit who opens up scripture to my spirit, I cannot understand scripture unless he does that...you cannot imo open up and understand scripture from your own intellect,....impossible, you must be led by the Spirit, who indwells our spirit, that’s how he communicates to me...we have a living spiritual relationship with God, Through the power of the Holy Spirit......there is much in scripture I don’t understand, why do I need to?....I only need to understand God’s word to me, I’m 100% born again...the rest has followed.....I’m not a teacher,I am far from ever being a teacher....... I have been called to spread the good news, that is....God is Alive in Spirit , when I’m out and about...he uses me as his vessel ,to spread that good news..his Spirit is Alive in us ,Randy?.......it’s all about God....All in His timing Randy...

Edit to add, I have read the rest of your post and with the utmost respect...it sounds like it’s coming from your own intellect..I don’t understand you Randy........that’s all I’m trying to say, I don’t understand your logic......and I’m sure you aren’t understanding me, although I may be wrong in that assumption.

It's okay, Rita. Carry on the best you can with what God is calling you to do. I wouldn't get distracted with things that do not appear to help you spiritually.

 

[Randy Kluth]

When we consider the Ten Commandments, we have to situate them in their covenantal context. After all, they’re part of the Mosaic covenant, and Christians aren’t under that covenant. For instance, the sabbath is the sign of the Mosaic covenant, of Yahweh’s covenant with Israel (Ex. 31:13, 17), but believers in Christ are no longer under the sabbath command, since it’s a shadow that points to Christ (Col. 2:16; cf. Rom. 14:5). The sabbath points to our rest in Christ (Heb. 4:1–11), and I make this case in a book on progressive covenantalism. Since the sabbath is no longer required for believers today, it’s too simplistic to say that believers must obey the Ten Commandments.

I agree. Though most of the 10 Commandments are based on what I call "God's universal Law for Mankind," to live in God's image. It is given as a subset of the greater Law of Moses.

So God's Universal Law is, in a sense, within the Law of Moses. But the Law of Moses is very restrictive, binding Israel to a covenant based on 613 requirements. The Sabbath is but one of them. Circumcision is also a sign of OT covenant commitment. I summarize the Law simply as temple, priestly, and sacrificial law, though there are many other items, all of which were required when they were possible.

The New Covenant of Christ requires commitment to the Universal Law of God, the law of living in God's image, but it does not require adherence to temple, priestly, or sacrificial law. Those restrictions are removed as no longer necessary to keep one in covenant relationship with God.

All of the old covenant laws have now been fulfilled in Christ. When we follow his NT righteousness, it supersedes all of the righteousness of the old covenant.

Since the sabbath is no longer required for believers today, it’s too simplistic to say that believers must obey the Ten Commandments.


We need to remember in interpreting the Old Testament that there is both continuity and discontinuity, both abolition (Heb. 8:13) and fulfillment (Matt. 5:17–20). The law points to the fulfillment in Jesus. It doesn’t follow, however, that there are no moral norms for believers. The law of Christ functions as a norm for believers (Rom. 13:8–10; Gal. 5:14; 6:2; 1 Cor. 9:20–21), the heart and soul of which is love for neighbor. And this love was exemplified supremely in Christ’s self-giving on the cross.

Amen. That's kind of what I'm trying to say. The Moral Law was expressed, in a limited way, under the Law of Moses. But the Moral Law continues after the Law of Moses and is fulfilled in the righteousness of Christ. I agree with what you seem to be saying in your post.

The requirement of Faith is in both of God's covenants, the OT covenant to Israel and the NT covenant to all nations. Faith means we derive from Christ his own righteousness, which is spiritual. Faith means we recognize the necessity of deriving virtue from God, and only put it into use in our lives by adhering to His word.

Some people, however, do this subconsciously, without fully realizing what they're doing. Even nominal observance of God's word contains divine virtue, though it is mixed with human independence from God and sin.

True Christian Faith is not just attention to law nominally, but more, obeying God directly moment by moment in our lives. We must be intrinsically linked to God in our spirit.

We perceive in our conscience what "love" is, and we obey it continuously. It comes naturally to our reborn spirit, but continues to be hindered by our carnal nature, which is in our flesh.

 

[Johann]

I agree. Though most of the 10 Commandments are based on what I call "God's universal Law for Mankind, to live in His image," it is given as a subset of the greater Law of Moses. So God's Law is, in a sense, within the Law of Moses. But the Law of Moses is very restrictive, binding Israel to a covenant based on 613 requirements. The Sabbath is but one of them, Circumcision is also a sign of OT covenant commitment. I summarize the Law simply as temple, priest, and sacrifice, though there are many other items, all of which were required when they were possible.

By contrast, the New Covenant requires commitment to the Universal Law of God, the law of living in God's image, but it does not require adherence to temple, priestly, or sacrificial law. Those restrictions are removed as no longer necessary to keep one in covenant relationship with God. All of the old covenant laws have now been fulfilled in Christ. When we follow his NT righteousness, it supersedes all of the righteousness of the old covenant.

Amen. That's kind of what I'm trying to say. The Moral Law was expressed, in a limited way, under the Law of Moses. And the Law suggests that Moral Law continues after the Law of Moses is fulfilled in the righteousness of Christ. I agree with what you seem to be saying in your post.

The requirement of Faith is in both of God's covenants, the OT covenant to Israel and the NT covenant to all nations. Faith means we derive from Christ his own righteousness, which is spiritual.

It is not just attention to law nominally, but more, obeying God directly moment by moment in our lives. We must be intrinsically linked to God in our spirit.

We perceive in our conscience what "love" is, and we obey it continuously. It comes naturally to our reborn spirit, but continues to be hindered by our carnal nature, which is in our flesh.

Then you may appreciate this sermon from Utley,-If you have time.

http://www.freebiblecommentary.org/mp3/32-16/romans/rom32k-13.mp3

God bless
Johann.

 

[Ritajanice]

Trouble is that you're disagreeing with me, and then end up agreeing with me! You disagree with my point that divine revelation comes to and through the mind, and then you admit that when God speaks to your spirit it is "relayed to your mind." It seems that the only point you're making here is that revelation begins with God connecting with our spirit. And as I've already said, this can happen and still reveal truth to the mind simultaneously.

It’s not connecting,yes, I said that ,as another way of trying to explain, being birthed in the Spirit, that is a living birth....where he does this through the Holy Spirit, who indwells us as we are being birthed in the Spirit..he comes into our spirit and takes up, residence there, that is the spiritual birth, birthing our spirit into his,that is my belief 100% ...I will leave it there.

 

[Lizbeth]

Well, well, where have you been?
Missed you.
Johann.

Blessings Johann. Just been in quiet mode, and doing some gardening. Sore back muscles after a long winter of not doing much.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Then you may appreciate this sermon from Utley,-If you have time.

http://www.freebiblecommentary.org/mp3/32-16/romans/rom32k-13.mp3

God bless
Johann.

Hi Johann, I was still working on that post. I regularly try to edit what I say to make my points more easy to understand. You might re-read what I posted, if it was a little unclear?

I've heard many hundreds of messages in my life--I was born in church. The most valuable sermons have come from men like Utley, who seems to have a heart-felt love for God's word, both in the Scriptures and to his life.

When I have more time, I'll try to listen to more of what he's saying, and maybe do some research on him. I've been in the Assemblies of God for most of my adult life, but I've benefited from many Baptist preachers, if that's who he is?

 

[Johann]

Hi Johann, I was still working on that post. I regularly try to edit what I say to make my points more easy to understand. You might re-read what I posted, if it was a little unclear?

I've heard many hundreds of messages in my life--I was born in church. The most valuable sermons have come from men like Utley, who seems to have a heart-felt love for God's word, both in the Scriptures and to his life.

When I have more time, I'll try to listen to more of what he's saying, and maybe do some research on him. I've been in the Assemblies of God for most of my adult life, but I've benefited from many Baptist preachers, if that's who he is?

Baptist through and through.
Our Lord is using him through and in the Spirit to feed me what I need most.

 

[Ritajanice]

John 16:13
Verse Concepts
But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

Galatians 5:18
Verse Concepts
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Galatians 5:22
Verse Concepts
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Romans 8:9
Verse Concepts
However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Romans 8:15
Verse Concepts
For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!”

Galatians 4:6
Verse Concepts
Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

1 John 2:27
Verse Concepts
As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

Source: 16 Bible verses about Indwelling Of The Holy Spirit

 

[Randy Kluth]

It’s not connecting,yes, I said that ,as another way of trying to explain, being birthed in the Spirit, that is a living birth....where he does this through the Holy Spirit, who indwells us as we are being birthed in the Spirit..he comes into our spirit and takes up, residence there, that is the spiritual birth, birthing our spirit into his,that is my belief 100% ...I will leave it there.

Yes, you can leave it there, but it remains ambiguous. You did say the rebirth is something spiritual that issues from God and is *relayed to the mind.* But then you say you don't "connect" with the idea of God's revelation touching the human mind and human reason? This would be very confusing for any reader.

So when somebody here, spiritual or not, speaks to you, it sometimes uplifts you? I can relate to that.

But to be clear, everything everyone says here *touches the mind and human reason.* Whether or not you are "uplifted" does not mean it isn't "spiritual," since the message simply may not touch you. It may simply not "speak to you," or you may simply not comprehend what is being said. I think we need to voice our disapproval of something that is blatantly "unspiritual." But it is another thing to become "judgmental," nit-picking between something we like and something we don't like.

We are called to be witnesses to God's love. We need to focus on what is truly "loving," and remember that bringing God's word to the pagan world is not a matter of being overly-critical of things we don't appreciate. Otherwise, we won't reach anybody! And we wouldn't have been reached in the 1st place ourselves!

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes, you can leave it there, but it remains ambiguous. You did say the rebirth is something spiritual that issues from God and is *relayed to the mind.* But then you say you don't "connect" with the idea of God's revelation touching the human mind and human reason? This would be very confusing for any reader.

God births, he may touch some, I wouldn’t know..I was birthed, in the Spirit, he didn’t touch me in my human mind or human reason...he birthed me in the Spirit....you are trying explain the birth your way,and I’m not understanding it....and I think the same applies to you, you aren’t understanding me.. God Bless and happy discussions.

As my post could be confusing to any reader, LOL,hahaha...there’s enough confusion on this forum to sink a ship...LOLhahaha.

 

[Johann]

God births, he may touch some, I wouldn’t know..I was birthed, in the Spirit, he didn’t touch me in my human mind or human reason...he birthed me in the Spirit....this is where I must leave it, God Bless and happy discussions.

As my post could be confusing to any reader, LOL,hahaha...there’s enough confusion on this forum to sink a ship...LOLhahaha.

Some sort of manifestation? Wonder from whence this comes from.

 

[Ritajanice]

Some sort of manifestation? Wonder from whence this comes from.

You aren’t understanding my post about being birthed in the Spirit, that is my opinion and belief...you don’t understand me.....hence your reply, I get this a lot....no problems, happy discussions with those you do understand.

Spirit gives birth to spirit....which means?

As you can see, we must be born of water and Spirit...very simple to understand imo.
@Johann ....

John 3:3–7​

The New International Version ​

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdomof God unless they are born again.a”h
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter thekingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.i 6 Fleshgives birth to flesh, but the Spiritb gives birth to spirit.j 7 You shouldnot be surprised at my saying, ‘Youc must be born again.’

 

[Johann]

I've heard many hundreds of messages in my life--I was born in church.

Consider yourself blessed brother, this is the first time in my life I get fed the meat of God's word through His chosen vessel-I am tired of "religiosity"
All free, gratis/nada-and I am excited as a little child.
Johann.

 

[Randy Kluth]

God births, he may touch some, I wouldn’t know..I was birthed, in the Spirit, he didn’t touch me in my human mind or human reason...he birthed me in the Spirit....you are trying explain the birth your way,and I’m not understanding it....and I think the same applies to you, you aren’t understanding me.. God Bless and happy discussions.

As my post could be confusing to any reader, LOL,hahaha...there’s enough confusion on this forum to sink a ship...LOLhahaha.

Yes, that's the nature of debate and sometimes spiritual warfare. We're in a process, as Christians, and maturity takes place slowly with no small degree of pain.

If God "birthed you" without "touching your mind" that's a new one for me. How did you know it even happened?